Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

Last-12-Exit

brianlux said:

I'm not sure how this morphed into a nuke thread but on that subject, it's always concerned me far more that the US and Russia (and to a lesser degree, the others listed here) have so many nukes:

Russia: 8,000
U.S.A.: 7,315
France: 300
China: 250
U.K.: 225
Pakistan: 100-120
India 90-110 (Don't 'cha love the uncertainty?)
Israel: 80
N.K.: So another nuke or two here or there? Whoopie!

I agree with this

BS44325

badbrains said:

Here's one from one of your own conservatives:

http://youtu.be/L033M6wqNCI

I watched them all. What is the point that you are trying to make? That Israel is horrible? You have made that point. It is the only point that you seem to be capable of making.

badbrains

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

Here's one from one of your own conservatives:

http://youtu.be/L033M6wqNCI

I watched them all. What is the point that you are trying to make? That Israel is horrible? You have made that point. It is the only point that you seem to be capable of making.

No, just showing YOU how hypocritical they (government) and YOU are. And your little jabs are lame. If you're gonna chirp me, be a Fucken man and chirp me. But seeing how it took you almost a year to admit you're a Zionist, what else would I expect from you.

badbrains

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

Here's one from one of your own conservatives:

http://youtu.be/L033M6wqNCI

I watched them all. What is the point that you are trying to make? That Israel is horrible? You have made that point. It is the only point that you seem to be capable of making.

kind of like your continuous bashing of islam. Point well taken.

BS44325

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

Here's one from one of your own conservatives:

http://youtu.be/L033M6wqNCI

I watched them all. What is the point that you are trying to make? That Israel is horrible? You have made that point. It is the only point that you seem to be capable of making.

No, just showing YOU how hypocritical they (government) and YOU are. And your little jabs are lame. If you're gonna chirp me, be a Fucken man and chirp me. But seeing how it took you almost a year to admit you're a Zionist, what else would I expect from you.

I am still not sure I get the relevance.

BS44325

Maybe what I am confused by is that I thought this thread was about a deal to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That means whether you think "the deal" is good or whether you think "the deal" is bad most people, including the Obama administration, would still agree that preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is the optimal result. What I have now come to realize, thanks to BB and others, is that many on here are actually not bothered at all as to whether Iran gets a bomb. They feel it is hypocritical by trying to stop them. They see Iran as fighting the good fight against an imperial and evil west. They see Iranian rhetoric as fair game as long as they continue to be a counterweight to Israel. If that is your view, fine but please don't pretend that you are interested in a deal.

Last-12-Exit

I think we need to stop policing other countries. I'm not convinced Iran doesn't already have nuclear weapons. As Brian said earlier, what a couple more going to hurt?

Even the bat shit craziest of dictators don't want to start a nuclear war. They want them to make their penis seem bigger.

BS44325

Last-12-Exit said:

I think we need to stop policing other countries. I'm not convinced Iran doesn't already have nuclear weapons. As Brian said earlier, what a couple more going to hurt?

Even the bat shit craziest of dictators don't want to start a nuclear war. They want them to make their penis seem bigger.

That's a fair view point but it requires a massive gamble on the intentions of those that are "bat shit crazy"

benjs

BS44325 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I think we need to stop policing other countries. I'm not convinced Iran doesn't already have nuclear weapons. As Brian said earlier, what a couple more going to hurt?

Even the bat shit craziest of dictators don't want to start a nuclear war. They want them to make their penis seem bigger.

That's a fair view point but it requires a massive gamble on the intentions of those that are "bat shit crazy"

Speaking of batshit crazy... Who are the only country who have actually used nuclear weapons on an attack, and not just once, but twice? For me, that's my definition of batshit crazy: recognizing the tremendous and awesome power of nuclear weaponry, and saying "let's do it".

Second-strike retaliation protocols from the US and Israel are also definite deterrents from actually using nuclear weapons in effect.

This is all just food for thought, and I'd be naive to claim to know the true intentions of the Iranian nuclear program (i.e. nuclear power, nuclear bombs for power position, nuclear bombs for potential for destruction), but I think that's really the first question. If this is a game of 'whose balls are bigger' and nothing more, or if this is like the cop who stretches so that it reveals his firearms for no purpose but to induce fear, then the question of the right to develop a bomb is neither here nor there. Ultimately, no one but the Iranian government can say whether this is for real or for show.

eddiec

benjs said:

BS44325 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I think we need to stop policing other countries. I'm not convinced Iran doesn't already have nuclear weapons. As Brian said earlier, what a couple more going to hurt?

Even the bat shit craziest of dictators don't want to start a nuclear war. They want them to make their penis seem bigger.

That's a fair view point but it requires a massive gamble on the intentions of those that are "bat shit crazy"

Speaking of batshit crazy... Who are the only country who have actually used nuclear weapons on an attack, and not just once, but twice? For me, that's my definition of batshit crazy: recognizing the tremendous and awesome power of nuclear weaponry, and saying "let's do it".

Second-strike retaliation protocols from the US and Israel are also definite deterrents from actually using nuclear weapons in effect.

This is all just food for thought, and I'd be naive to claim to know the true intentions of the Iranian nuclear program (i.e. nuclear power, nuclear bombs for power position, nuclear bombs for potential for destruction), but I think that's really the first question. If this is a game of 'whose balls are bigger' and nothing more, or if this is like the cop who stretches so that it reveals his firearms for no purpose but to induce fear, then the question of the right to develop a bomb is neither here nor there. Ultimately, no one but the Iranian government can say whether this is for real or for show.

And only 1/10 of 1 percent of the bomb went off.

badbrains

BS44325 said:

Maybe what I am confused by is that I thought this thread was about a deal to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That means whether you think "the deal" is good or whether you think "the deal" is bad most people, including the Obama administration, would still agree that preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is the optimal result. What I have now come to realize, thanks to BB and others, is that many on here are actually not bothered at all as to whether Iran gets a bomb. They feel it is hypocritical by trying to stop them. They see Iran as fighting the good fight against an imperial and evil west. They see Iranian rhetoric as fair game as long as they continue to be a counterweight to Israel. If that is your view, fine but please don't pretend that you are interested in a deal.

And don't forget, "see right through your bullshit."

rr165892

BS44325 said:

Maybe what I am confused by is that I thought this thread was about a deal to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That means whether you think "the deal" is good or whether you think "the deal" is bad most people, including the Obama administration, would still agree that preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is the optimal result. What I have now come to realize, thanks to BB and others, is that many on here are actually not bothered at all as to whether Iran gets a bomb. They feel it is hypocritical by trying to stop them. They see Iran as fighting the good fight against an imperial and evil west. They see Iranian rhetoric as fair game as long as they continue to be a counterweight to Israel. If that is your view, fine but please don't pretend that you are interested in a deal.

I don't disagree with everything above.Taking out the personal back and forth.
Many of these discussions do get turned back to Israel.One can question its relevance.Im not so sure that's needed on every issue discussed in the region.
If the question is about the deal brokering between the USA and Iran ,I don't see why this had to turn into a pro/against Israel convo AGAIN !!!!!
Shit it's crystal clear how some of you feel about it either way.Agree or not,every single Muslim/ Muslim country vs West issue turns into the same fucked up,go nowhere,hate filled conversation.
Seriously they all take the same road and tone.broken record stuff,imo That's why I don't do too much posting on these threads.
For the record Anything that lets the hard liners in Iran get closer to having their hands on a weapon of mass destruction is a bad thing.They have been supporters of global terror and have wanted much I'll will both publicly and privately toward the west and Israel.
If a deal keeps that from happening then it's a good deal.If it dosent then it's not.

badbrains

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

Maybe what I am confused by is that I thought this thread was about a deal to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That means whether you think "the deal" is good or whether you think "the deal" is bad most people, including the Obama administration, would still agree that preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is the optimal result. What I have now come to realize, thanks to BB and others, is that many on here are actually not bothered at all as to whether Iran gets a bomb. They feel it is hypocritical by trying to stop them. They see Iran as fighting the good fight against an imperial and evil west. They see Iranian rhetoric as fair game as long as they continue to be a counterweight to Israel. If that is your view, fine but please don't pretend that you are interested in a deal.

I don't disagree with everything above.Taking out the personal back and forth.
Many of these discussions do get turned back to Israel.One can question its relevance.Im not so sure that's needed on every issue discussed in the region.
If the question is about the deal brokering between the USA and Iran ,I don't see why this had to turn into a pro/against Israel convo AGAIN !!!!!
Shit it's crystal clear how some of you feel about it either way.Agree or not,every single Muslim/ Muslim country vs West issue turns into the same fucked up,go nowhere,hate filled conversation.
Seriously they all take the same road and tone.broken record stuff,imo That's why I don't do too much posting on these threads.
For the record Anything that lets the hard liners in Iran get closer to having their hands on a weapon of mass destruction is a bad thing.They have been supporters of global terror and have wanted much I'll will both publicly and privately toward the west and Israel.
If a deal keeps that from happening then it's a good deal.If it dosent then it's not.

Oh come on ryan, straight bullshit. This guy brought iran into the Indiana thread and you didn't say shit. This has everything to do with Israel and DONT fucken kid yourself by denying it. Who's been the most outspoken country against this deal? Israel, who came to our country crying wolf before his countries election? You're better then this and know it. The only reason israel doesn't want iran to have one is so they can throw their weight around threatening any country it wants without resistance. You know as does BS. Everybody with a 9th grade brain knows this.

rgambs

For my part, I am not ambivalent about Iran having nuclear missiles, but neither am I extraordinarily concerned about it.
I don't think Iran is a "death cult" as BS states, I think that is an ignorant catch phrase touted by the right that ignores reality. If Iran was a death cult, you would think they would be engaged in a real war, and not just be imitating the US by playing empire, funding terrorism and attempting to overthrow populist governments... That's not a death cult, that is more like cosmopolitan politics.
Would Iran consign it's entire population to death to destroy Israel? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

I would rather not see any more nukes, and I hope this deal is on the up so we can slow them down and buy time for diplomacy and for modernization to squeeze fanaticism out.

Yes, Israel is tied to this issue tightly, but I think RR's point about the way the conversation degrades around Israel is valid.

Aafke

Reading down this thread, the main question I read is whether Iran has the right to have nuclear missiles. For me this isn't the point about this deal with Iran. I think deal or no deal Iran will sooner or later build these missiles, therefor the more important question is should the West be on speaking terms with Iran, or do we shit in our paints with fear and act aggressively towards Iran out of this fear? People are so short sighted, "If my allies have nucs it's okay, but my enemies can't have them, 'cause they will hurt me..."Well, nothing changes faster than friend and enemies. Iran was one of the West biggest allies, in the region, up until the late '70. ISIS was our ally up until about a year ago.Look at how we see them now... and wasn't Assad our enemy in Syria, the last couple of years, but now the West is trying to team up with him to have an ally against ISIS

In my opinion, it's always better to be on speaking terms, with your enemies, than act aggressively towards them out of fear. If we close the road of diplomacy and start acting aggressively, Iran is damn right to build a nuclear missile...

badbrains

Aafke said:

Reading down this thread, the main question I read is whether Iran has the right to have nuclear missiles. For me this isn't the point about this deal with Iran. I think deal or no deal Iran will sooner or later build these missiles, therefor the more important question is should the West be on speaking terms with Iran, or do we shit in our paints with fear and act aggressively towards Iran out of this fear? People are so short sighted, "If my allies have nucs it's okay, but my enemies can't have them, 'cause they will hurt me..."Well, nothing changes faster than friend and enemies. Iran was one of the West biggest allies, in the region, up until the late '70. ISIS was our ally up until about a year ago.Look at how we see them now... and wasn't Assad our enemy in Syria, the last couple of years, but now the West is trying to team up with him to have an ally against ISIS

In my opinion, it's always better to be on speaking terms, with your enemies, than act aggressively towards them out of fear. If we close the road of diplomacy and start acting aggressively, Iran is damn right to build a nuclear missile...

Good post

gimmesometruth27

well what do you know.... bibi says this deal is a threat to the very existence of israel. i have been following the israel/palestine conflict for 10 years or so, and i can count on 2 hands things bibi has said are a threat to israel's existence.

BS44325

rgambs said:

For my part, I am not ambivalent about Iran having nuclear missiles, but neither am I extraordinarily concerned about it.
I don't think Iran is a "death cult" as BS states, I think that is an ignorant catch phrase touted by the right that ignores reality. If Iran was a death cult, you would think they would be engaged in a real war, and not just be imitating the US by playing empire, funding terrorism and attempting to overthrow populist governments... That's not a death cult, that is more like cosmopolitan politics.
Would Iran consign it's entire population to death to destroy Israel? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

I would rather not see any more nukes, and I hope this deal is on the up so we can slow them down and buy time for diplomacy and for modernization to squeeze fanaticism out.

Yes, Israel is tied to this issue tightly, but I think RR's point about the way the conversation degrades around Israel is valid.

Iran is engaged in a real war. From Iraq to syria to lebanon to yemen etc. It is a very different style of war and tactically brilliant as far as I am concerned. I can't say as to whether they would use a bomb...again that is a judgement as to how "bat shit crazy" we think they are...but it will give them the ability to push on with their regional hegemony under some degree of nuclear security. Saudi Arabia and the other gulf states have far more to be concerned about then Israel under this scenerio.

BS44325

gimmesometruth27 said:

well what do you know.... bibi says this deal is a threat to the very existence of israel. i have been following the israel/palestine conflict for 10 years or so, and i can count on 2 hands things bibi has said are a threat to israel's existence.

After an Iranian General says destroying Israel is non-negotiable, what is Bibi supposed to say?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-militia-chief-destroying-israel-nonnegotiable/

rr165892

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

Maybe what I am confused by is that I thought this thread was about a deal to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That means whether you think "the deal" is good or whether you think "the deal" is bad most people, including the Obama administration, would still agree that preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is the optimal result. What I have now come to realize, thanks to BB and others, is that many on here are actually not bothered at all as to whether Iran gets a bomb. They feel it is hypocritical by trying to stop them. They see Iran as fighting the good fight against an imperial and evil west. They see Iranian rhetoric as fair game as long as they continue to be a counterweight to Israel. If that is your view, fine but please don't pretend that you are interested in a deal.

I don't disagree with everything above.Taking out the personal back and forth.
Many of these discussions do get turned back to Israel.One can question its relevance.Im not so sure that's needed on every issue discussed in the region.
If the question is about the deal brokering between the USA and Iran ,I don't see why this had to turn into a pro/against Israel convo AGAIN !!!!!
Shit it's crystal clear how some of you feel about it either way.Agree or not,every single Muslim/ Muslim country vs West issue turns into the same fucked up,go nowhere,hate filled conversation.
Seriously they all take the same road and tone.broken record stuff,imo That's why I don't do too much posting on these threads.
For the record Anything that lets the hard liners in Iran get closer to having their hands on a weapon of mass destruction is a bad thing.They have been supporters of global terror and have wanted much I'll will both publicly and privately toward the west and Israel.
If a deal keeps that from happening then it's a good deal.If it dosent then it's not.

Oh come on ryan, straight bullshit. This guy brought iran into the Indiana thread and you didn't say shit. This has everything to do with Israel and DONT fucken kid yourself by denying it. Who's been the most outspoken country against this deal? Israel, who came to our country crying wolf before his countries election? You're better then this and know it. The only reason israel doesn't want iran to have one is so they can throw their weight around threatening any country it wants without resistance. You know as does BS. Everybody with a 9th grade brain knows this.

Nart,your proving my point.I know how passionate and outspoken you are about the situation in Israel and your contempt for their govt is no stranger to your posts,and that's fine,it's your thing,I get that,they deserve plenty of criticism so I get it.But Ya know what so does Iran and the other countries in the region who play apart in this thing.

I just see every convo go the same way.thats all.
Your a bright guy,I just don't want you(and others) to let that same anger permiate and cloud your judgement when discussing the region.Plenty of room for many opinions and angles on all issues.

If you re read my above post you will see I don't take a hard line opinion,and my opinion is not influenced by our allies in the region security concerns.They can and will act first,I have no doubt regardless of what we the USA says.
Like I said.I do not want Iran to have a Nuke.In fact I'm with Brian,I don't want anyone to have anymore nukes.(No Nukes! So 70s cliche,but it made sense)
We have enough of a problem policing all/any of the enriched uranium that circulates on the black market from former soviet installations and making sure it dosent get in the hands of actors who would use it against a population center in a dirty bomb.