Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,000
    mcgruff10 said:
    Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.


    “Human error”
    https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg
    Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 
    Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people
    what about if we had not invaded iraq, would the embassy even be there to be attacked? Everything we do in that region has a consequence and as long as we are there, we will reap the consequences in perpetuity until we get out of the region.
    And the point is missed. If we are just going to blame previous actions for all subsequent actions then we have a long way to go.

    iran owns killing those people with their inept “self-defense”
    no man. we do not kill the general, those missiles do not get fired at the airplane and those people would be alive.

    agree to disagree.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.


    “Human error”
    https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg
    Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 
    Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people
    what about if we had not invaded iraq, would the embassy even be there to be attacked? Everything we do in that region has a consequence and as long as we are there, we will reap the consequences in perpetuity until we get out of the region.
    And the point is missed. If we are just going to blame previous actions for all subsequent actions then we have a long way to go.

    iran owns killing those people with their inept “self-defense”
    no man. we do not kill the general, those missiles do not get fired at the airplane and those people would be alive.

    agree to disagree.
    Particularly given that the threat wasn’t “imminent.” More likely, there was no threat at all.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    mcgruff10 said:
    Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.


    “Human error”
    https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg
    Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 
    Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people
    what about if we had not invaded iraq, would the embassy even be there to be attacked? Everything we do in that region has a consequence and as long as we are there, we will reap the consequences in perpetuity until we get out of the region.
    And the point is missed. If we are just going to blame previous actions for all subsequent actions then we have a long way to go.

    iran owns killing those people with their inept “self-defense”
    no man. we do not kill the general, those missiles do not get fired at the airplane and those people would be alive.

    agree to disagree.
    Sure. In a long chain of events. But ok, agree to disagree.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,298
     protests in iran over this....
    Videos and comments on social media show angry Iranians calling on leadership to resign over plane crash incident.
    https://aje.io/jtp9a

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  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    edited January 2020
    wow from the same tweet @pjl44 :
    3. What brought down the plane. The Iranian government completely mishandled the plane crash, destroying evidence in the process. Iranians are in the street calling for death to the Supreme Leader (something that could get them executed).
    4. Iranians are in the street calling for prosecutions, saying Soleimani is a murderer. Telling leadership of the Iranian government to resign and saying that Trump isn't the problem, that the Iranian government is. To say that these protesters are brave is an understatement
    5. Nearly 2 months ago, Iran massacred hundreds (at least) and up to 1,500 of its citizens in the streets for protesting against gas prices. People in the streets are taking an enormous risk not only by protesting but by saying what they're saying like death to the Supreme Leader a
    7. Yesterday I tweeted this thread and was criticized by liberals who are intent on blaming this plane crash on President Trump. As I note in my thread, the idea that he's to blame for a decision the IRGC made is just absurd.
    8. And while Iranians aren't a monolith and there are 80 million people in Iran, you don't see Iranians blaming President Trump for the cash (in which Iranian citizens were killed). They're blaming the IRGC and the Supreme Leader for a series of horrific mistakes
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • stuckinline
    stuckinline Posts: 3,406
    Let go of blame. Focus on solutions instead. 
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    mcgruff10 said:
    wow from the same tweet @pjl44 :
    3. What brought down the plane. The Iranian government completely mishandled the plane crash, destroying evidence in the process. Iranians are in the street calling for death to the Supreme Leader (something that could get them executed).
    4. Iranians are in the street calling for prosecutions, saying Soleimani is a murderer. Telling leadership of the Iranian government to resign and saying that Trump isn't the problem, that the Iranian government is. To say that these protesters are brave is an understatement
    5. Nearly 2 months ago, Iran massacred hundreds (at least) and up to 1,500 of its citizens in the streets for protesting against gas prices. People in the streets are taking an enormous risk not only by protesting but by saying what they're saying like death to the Supreme Leader a
    7. Yesterday I tweeted this thread and was criticized by liberals who are intent on blaming this plane crash on President Trump. As I note in my thread, the idea that he's to blame for a decision the IRGC made is just absurd.
    8. And while Iranians aren't a monolith and there are 80 million people in Iran, you don't see Iranians blaming President Trump for the cash (in which Iranian citizens were killed). They're blaming the IRGC and the Supreme Leader for a series of horrific mistakes
    I've seen some people refer to this event as a "Chernobyl" moment. Things seem to be boiling over, but we'll see. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    mcgruff10 said:
    Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.


    “Human error”
    https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg
    Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 
    Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people
    what about if we had not invaded iraq, would the embassy even be there to be attacked? Everything we do in that region has a consequence and as long as we are there, we will reap the consequences in perpetuity until we get out of the region.
    And the point is missed. If we are just going to blame previous actions for all subsequent actions then we have a long way to go.

    iran owns killing those people with their inept “self-defense”
    no man. we do not kill the general, those missiles do not get fired at the airplane and those people would be alive.

    agree to disagree.
    Sure. In a long chain of events. But ok, agree to disagree.
    I’ve actually thought the same thing. If we’re blaming Trump for the plane with the logic of if we didn’t kill the general then they would shoot down a plane. So how far back do we go? Embassy attacked like you said, to the war in Iraq, the first war in Iraq. Well that war wouldn’t have happened if we didn’t help Saddam gain power. So how far back do we go, or can we just say Iran is responsible for shooting down the plane? 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    even the iranian people are blaming their own government, not trump. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    even the iranian people are blaming their own government, not trump. 
    That's quite the monolithic statement.   From what I've read,  the protesters are making statements about the lying,  not specifically the action. 
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    mrussel1 said:
    even the iranian people are blaming their own government, not trump. 
    That's quite the monolithic statement.   From what I've read,  the protesters are making statements about the lying,  not specifically the action. 
    See number 8 in the tweet I referenced.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited January 2020
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    even the iranian people are blaming their own government, not trump. 
    That's quite the monolithic statement.   From what I've read,  the protesters are making statements about the lying,  not specifically the action. 
    See number 8 in the tweet I referenced.  
    Their chants were about the lying government, was my understanding.  Although there's been general civil unrest for several years.  Which is why I believe and still believe the strike was a mistake.  Anything that conjures feelings of national unity between the youth and the theocracy hurts our effort to bring the country west 
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478

    Canadian CEO blasts Trump over downed plane in Iran: 'I am livid'


    "I’m Michael McCain, CEO of Maple Leaf Foods, and these are personal reflections. I am very angry, and time isn’t making me less angry. A MLF colleague of mine lost his wife and family this week to a needless, irresponsible series of events in Iran..." he tweeted.

    "…U.S. government leaders unconstrained by checks/balances, concocted an ill-conceived plan to divert focus from political woes. The world knows Iran is a dangerous state, but the world found a path to contain it; not perfect but by most accounts it was the right direction…"

    "A narcissist in Washington tears world accomplishments apart; destabilizes region. US now unwelcomed everywhere in the area including Iraq; tensions escalated to feverish pitch. Taking out despicable military leader terrorist? There are a hundred like him, standing next in line," he continued.

    "The collateral damage of this irresponsible, dangerous, ill-conceived behavior? 63 Canadians needlessly lost their lives in the crossfire, including the family of one of my MLF colleagues (his wife + 11 year old son)!" McCain tweeted.

    "We are mourning and I am livid," he concluded.




    https://thehill.com/policy/international/477930-canadian-ceo-blasts-trump-over-downed-plane-in-iran-i-am-livid
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    dignin said:

    Canadian CEO blasts Trump over downed plane in Iran: 'I am livid'


    "I’m Michael McCain, CEO of Maple Leaf Foods, and these are personal reflections. I am very angry, and time isn’t making me less angry. A MLF colleague of mine lost his wife and family this week to a needless, irresponsible series of events in Iran..." he tweeted.

    "…U.S. government leaders unconstrained by checks/balances, concocted an ill-conceived plan to divert focus from political woes. The world knows Iran is a dangerous state, but the world found a path to contain it; not perfect but by most accounts it was the right direction…"

    "A narcissist in Washington tears world accomplishments apart; destabilizes region. US now unwelcomed everywhere in the area including Iraq; tensions escalated to feverish pitch. Taking out despicable military leader terrorist? There are a hundred like him, standing next in line," he continued.

    "The collateral damage of this irresponsible, dangerous, ill-conceived behavior? 63 Canadians needlessly lost their lives in the crossfire, including the family of one of my MLF colleagues (his wife + 11 year old son)!" McCain tweeted.

    "We are mourning and I am livid," he concluded.




    https://thehill.com/policy/international/477930-canadian-ceo-blasts-trump-over-downed-plane-in-iran-i-am-livid
    I haven't been paying attention to this particular angle, but is Canada planning to do anything about this? To whomever they hold responsible, be it the US or Iran? Or will they just have their business leaders bitch about Trump?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    pjl44 said:
    dignin said:

    Canadian CEO blasts Trump over downed plane in Iran: 'I am livid'


    "I’m Michael McCain, CEO of Maple Leaf Foods, and these are personal reflections. I am very angry, and time isn’t making me less angry. A MLF colleague of mine lost his wife and family this week to a needless, irresponsible series of events in Iran..." he tweeted.

    "…U.S. government leaders unconstrained by checks/balances, concocted an ill-conceived plan to divert focus from political woes. The world knows Iran is a dangerous state, but the world found a path to contain it; not perfect but by most accounts it was the right direction…"

    "A narcissist in Washington tears world accomplishments apart; destabilizes region. US now unwelcomed everywhere in the area including Iraq; tensions escalated to feverish pitch. Taking out despicable military leader terrorist? There are a hundred like him, standing next in line," he continued.

    "The collateral damage of this irresponsible, dangerous, ill-conceived behavior? 63 Canadians needlessly lost their lives in the crossfire, including the family of one of my MLF colleagues (his wife + 11 year old son)!" McCain tweeted.

    "We are mourning and I am livid," he concluded.




    https://thehill.com/policy/international/477930-canadian-ceo-blasts-trump-over-downed-plane-in-iran-i-am-livid
    I haven't been paying attention to this particular angle, but is Canada planning to do anything about this? To whomever they hold responsible, be it the US or Iran? Or will they just have their business leaders bitch about Trump?
    Bitching is phase 1.  Really bitching is scheduled for next week.  
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    dignin said:

    Canadian CEO blasts Trump over downed plane in Iran: 'I am livid'


    "I’m Michael McCain, CEO of Maple Leaf Foods, and these are personal reflections. I am very angry, and time isn’t making me less angry. A MLF colleague of mine lost his wife and family this week to a needless, irresponsible series of events in Iran..." he tweeted.

    "…U.S. government leaders unconstrained by checks/balances, concocted an ill-conceived plan to divert focus from political woes. The world knows Iran is a dangerous state, but the world found a path to contain it; not perfect but by most accounts it was the right direction…"

    "A narcissist in Washington tears world accomplishments apart; destabilizes region. US now unwelcomed everywhere in the area including Iraq; tensions escalated to feverish pitch. Taking out despicable military leader terrorist? There are a hundred like him, standing next in line," he continued.

    "The collateral damage of this irresponsible, dangerous, ill-conceived behavior? 63 Canadians needlessly lost their lives in the crossfire, including the family of one of my MLF colleagues (his wife + 11 year old son)!" McCain tweeted.

    "We are mourning and I am livid," he concluded.




    https://thehill.com/policy/international/477930-canadian-ceo-blasts-trump-over-downed-plane-in-iran-i-am-livid
    I haven't been paying attention to this particular angle, but is Canada planning to do anything about this? To whomever they hold responsible, be it the US or Iran? Or will they just have their business leaders bitch about Trump?
    Bitching is phase 1.  Really bitching is scheduled for next week.  
    I don't think I'm ready for that level of Canadian aggression 
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,536
    dignin said:

    Canadian CEO blasts Trump over downed plane in Iran: 'I am livid'


    "I’m Michael McCain, CEO of Maple Leaf Foods, and these are personal reflections. I am very angry, and time isn’t making me less angry. A MLF colleague of mine lost his wife and family this week to a needless, irresponsible series of events in Iran..." he tweeted.

    "…U.S. government leaders unconstrained by checks/balances, concocted an ill-conceived plan to divert focus from political woes. The world knows Iran is a dangerous state, but the world found a path to contain it; not perfect but by most accounts it was the right direction…"

    "A narcissist in Washington tears world accomplishments apart; destabilizes region. US now unwelcomed everywhere in the area including Iraq; tensions escalated to feverish pitch. Taking out despicable military leader terrorist? There are a hundred like him, standing next in line," he continued.

    "The collateral damage of this irresponsible, dangerous, ill-conceived behavior? 63 Canadians needlessly lost their lives in the crossfire, including the family of one of my MLF colleagues (his wife + 11 year old son)!" McCain tweeted.

    "We are mourning and I am livid," he concluded.




    https://thehill.com/policy/international/477930-canadian-ceo-blasts-trump-over-downed-plane-in-iran-i-am-livid
    Not to some here he can only be blamed for something he did directly not something that was caused by his decisions , just like the kids that are separated from their parents! That’s not on him but some other smuck that works for the impeached idiot ..

    jesus greets me looks just like me ....