Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

better still, if The Brits werent the arrogant colonizing euro trash cocksuckers they are , would any of this bullshit happened in the last 100 years

God damn British!  It is all their fault. 

Not far enough back. What caused the British to be cocksuckers? 

Alfred the Great, and his intolerance of the Viking culture in Wessex.  

Damn Alfred 

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.

“Human error”
https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg

Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 

Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people

If Bush and Cheney werent the lying scumbags they are , is trump in the position to kill the general......

We can go back further than that...my point is sure there are situations that lead to different environments. But you own how you respond. 

true, and its inconceivable it would have been done deliberately. made no sense. 82 of their own were on board and would assume most of the 57 Canadians were of Iranian descent

given how close tehran is to the caspian sea (seems the quickest infil route), and how tense shit was, remember how close to actual war we also believed we were,  human fuck up does make the most sense.

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

better still, if The Brits werent the arrogant colonizing euro trash cocksuckers they are , would any of this bullshit happened in the last 100 years

God damn British!  It is all their fault. 

Not far enough back. What caused the British to be cocksuckers? 

Alfred the Great, and his intolerance of the Viking culture in Wessex.  

What about the crusades?!?!

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

better still, if The Brits werent the arrogant colonizing euro trash cocksuckers they are , would any of this bullshit happened in the last 100 years

God damn British!  It is all their fault. 

Not far enough back. What caused the British to be cocksuckers? 

Alfred the Great, and his intolerance of the Viking culture in Wessex.  

Damn Alfred 

I guess technically it's the Romans fault... I mean..what have they EVER done for us?  

https://youtu.be/uvPbj9NX0zc

josevolution

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.

“Human error”
https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg

Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 

Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people

How about we go back two yrs 
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/01/iran-tensions-timeline-events-leading-soleimani-killing-200103152234464.html

Jason P

Iran just tipped off to the rest of the region and world what type of technology they are using to protect their capital.  Seems old.  

Bentleyspop

Blame the Romans

cincybearcat

josevolution said:

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.

“Human error”
https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg

Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 

Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people

How about we go back two yrs 
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/01/iran-tensions-timeline-events-leading-soleimani-killing-200103152234464.html

Goes back much longer than 2 years. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

better still, if The Brits werent the arrogant colonizing euro trash cocksuckers they are , would any of this bullshit happened in the last 100 years

God damn British!  It is all their fault. 

Not far enough back. What caused the British to be cocksuckers? 

Alfred the Great, and his intolerance of the Viking culture in Wessex.  

I thought it was Sussex? Prince Harry is some pissed.

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

better still, if The Brits werent the arrogant colonizing euro trash cocksuckers they are , would any of this bullshit happened in the last 100 years

God damn British!  It is all their fault. 

Not far enough back. What caused the British to be cocksuckers? 

Alfred the Great, and his intolerance of the Viking culture in Wessex.  

I thought it was Sussex? Prince Harry is some pissed.

Alfred was of Weesex, although he may have annexed Sussex by his death.  His goal was the uniting of all the Anglo minor kingdoms if I recall.

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

better still, if The Brits werent the arrogant colonizing euro trash cocksuckers they are , would any of this bullshit happened in the last 100 years

God damn British!  It is all their fault. 

Not far enough back. What caused the British to be cocksuckers? 

Alfred the Great, and his intolerance of the Viking culture in Wessex.  

Damn Alfred 

I guess technically it's the Romans fault... I mean..what have they EVER done for us?  

https://youtu.be/uvPbj9NX0zc

"You are mistaken... it's the Jew's fault."

"WHAT?  No way!"

mrussel1

Do you find it amusing when I say.. Bigus Dickus?

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

Do you find it amusing when I say.. Bigus Dickus?

I think its a joke like "Sillius Soddus" or " Biggus Dickus", sir!

gimmesometruth27

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

trump is giving americans PTSD. i shit you not.

I would not have thought of it that way, gimme, but after the conversation I had with a good friend earlier this evening, I get it.  This lady friend and my wife and I had a nice dinner and afterwards started out with a pleasant conversation that soon enough, seemingly of its own accord, turned to talking about Trump. 

It started when I began to leaf through a very nice photo book about Obama and I said, "Oh my god, look at these great pictures."  The images reflected pride, intelligence, joy, concern, hope, conviction, and the people looked like people you would like to meet. 

But then one of us mentioned Trump and the heaviness descended like a wet blanket in a damp dark fog.  Body language and faces sagged, and we felt worried, unhappy, disillusioned, sad, angry, frustrated.  It was all there- the horrid reality of what has become of so much of America.  We all talked about how this hits us everyday.  Every damn day. 

And there was one word from this friend was one I had never heard her utter about another person:  "hate".  And we were in agreement.

It was really hard to end the evening on a more upbeat note.

any mention of trump can have that effect on a group of people who have empathy. sorry orange twat ruined the evening.

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.

“Human error”
https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg

Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 

Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people

what about if we had not invaded iraq, would the embassy even be there to be attacked? Everything we do in that region has a consequence and as long as we are there, we will reap the consequences in perpetuity until we get out of the region.

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 said:

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

trump is giving americans PTSD. i shit you not.

I would not have thought of it that way, gimme, but after the conversation I had with a good friend earlier this evening, I get it.  This lady friend and my wife and I had a nice dinner and afterwards started out with a pleasant conversation that soon enough, seemingly of its own accord, turned to talking about Trump. 

It started when I began to leaf through a very nice photo book about Obama and I said, "Oh my god, look at these great pictures."  The images reflected pride, intelligence, joy, concern, hope, conviction, and the people looked like people you would like to meet. 

But then one of us mentioned Trump and the heaviness descended like a wet blanket in a damp dark fog.  Body language and faces sagged, and we felt worried, unhappy, disillusioned, sad, angry, frustrated.  It was all there- the horrid reality of what has become of so much of America.  We all talked about how this hits us everyday.  Every damn day. 

And there was one word from this friend was one I had never heard her utter about another person:  "hate".  And we were in agreement.

It was really hard to end the evening on a more upbeat note.

any mention of trump can have that effect on a group of people who have empathy. sorry orange twat ruined the evening.

Thanks!  It was mostly great.  The thing is, when you're with people who are concerned about things, it's almost inevitable that his name will come up.  Thus starts the rounds of puking!

gimmesometruth27

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.

“Human error”
https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg

Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 

Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people

If Bush and Cheney werent the lying scumbags they are , is trump in the position to kill the general......

We can go back further than that...my point is sure there are situations that lead to different environments. But you own how you respond. 

true, and its inconceivable it would have been done deliberately. made no sense. 82 of their own were on board and would assume most of the 57 Canadians were of Iranian descent

given how close tehran is to the caspian sea (seems the quickest infil route), and how tense shit was, remember how close to actual war we also believed we were,  human fuck up does make the most sense.

yeah i was wrong about this. i could not fathom iranians shooting down their own airliner. at least iran admitted to it. it made no sense to me for them to shoot down a plane on purpose. they must have thought that that was an american plane incoming with bombs or something.

still it should not have happened. why did iran not ground all flights and close down their airspace to all commercial flights when they got word of missiles being deployed?

gimmesometruth27

mrussel1 said:

Do you find it amusing when I say.. Bigus Dickus?

lol that is a great scene. even the guards are trying not to laugh.

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

mcgruff10 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

josevolution said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I wonder.....if after Obama had Bin Laden killed.......what if the US experienced another 9/11 level event as a result? or some type of accident as a result of the heightened tensions/paranoia? would you all have blamed obama? or the ones who perpetrated the attack/made the mistake?

I can take a wild guess. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

I wonder.....if after Obama had Bin Laden killed.......what if the US experienced another 9/11 level event as a result? or some type of accident as a result of the heightened tensions/paranoia? would you all have blamed obama? or the ones who perpetrated the attack/made the mistake?

I can take a wild guess. 

I’m not sure since nothing really happened by the killing of binladen was there any retaliation by anyone? I’m blaming the Baffoon’s actions for this mess! He always talks about bringing troops home yet by his decision to kill the general we had to send troops back into harms way! How is that sensible ...If you want peace you have to offer peaceful solutions period ...

i agree 100% that trump started this mess. there is no denying that. 

Wow. That was all I was saying in the beginning. He started this mess and is to blame. And it was a leap. 

I could see your side if the plane was inbound, but it was an outbound plane.  If in fact Iran did accidentally shoot an outbound plane down then that is a 100% on them and no one else.  

My understanding of the device which launched the missile, is that it's a mobile device, that can be deployed to specific areas as needed. Say, near an airport if another country threatens to indiscriminately drop bombs on cultural sites if a retaliatory force was used for the assassination of a major military icon. 

Obviously Iran is accountable for this, but to claim that this hasn't been catalyzed recklessly by this recent bout of American intervention, is really disregarding the obligation a POTUS has - of thinking beyond the impact that may occur in 24 hours. 

I get trying to anticipate collateral impact, but I'd disagree that any imaginable outcome is within scope. "They might blow a commercial airplane departing from their own airport out of the sky despite no offensive measures taking place" is way beyond that to me.

Mrussel's post is interesting because I love Reason and respect the hell out of Robby Soave, but I disagree with his point.

I think of a quote from Donald Rumsfeld, who was a POS in my mind, but an interesting figure nonetheless.  because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know.

With this strategic folly, Iraq voting to kick us should have been a known known.  Whereas the plane is a known unknown.  There had to be expected consequences or effects, but the specifics could not be anticipated.  Robby's point is right, in my mind.  When nations go to war, you have to expect collateral damage.  You don't know what it is, but it's coming.  In that respect, we have accountability, considering we struck first.  The paper attack on the embassy was not 1979, so I don't buy our assassination as a counter to an act of war.   

I think part of the challenge here is that the vast majority of us think Trump shouldn't have made the decision that he did.

Is it safe to assume we all feel Obama made the right call in giving the go-ahead to take out bin Laden? If al-Qaeda had purposefully or erroneously bombed a civilian passenger airplane while retaliating, would the US bear some responsibility? Or would we be ok laying that solely at the feet of al-Qaeda?

i asked this exact same question and *crickets*. 

The two are not comparable.

if this general was as evil as everyone is making him out to be, having killed hundreds of americans, how is that not comparable? I find that HIGHLY comparable. 

One major difference, one was the leader of a nationless terrorist organization and the other was the number 2 “leader” of a sovereign nation. Believe it or not, there are rules of engagement for war and how nations treat one another. What Team Trump Treason did was tell anyone not happy with a country’s leadership, that it’s ok to drone strike them at an airport in a third party country.

Obama surely asked detailed and pertinent questions regarding risk, both immediate and 10 steps down the line. He analyzed and considered the potential ramifications. Team Trump Treason? Not so much. There should be a House investigation regarding the “imminent” threat justification and someone should ask those informing Team Trump Treason of the opportunity, what questions he asked during the deliberations.

Darth Cheney and Rumsfeld are responsible for hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. Are you okay with them being drone striked in London or Paris or Denver?

as i have repeatedly said, i am against all murder, no matter who it is. you obviously know the answer to this ridiculous question. 

And yet you compared the two, basically saying that because Soleimani was responsible for hundreds of deaths, he’s in the same camp as bin Laden and thus Obama is in the same camp as Team Trump Treason. I explained to you why I believe that’s a false equivalency. Then you frame it as a ridiculous question. Makes sense.

nope. not what i said at all. as usual. moving on. 

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 said:

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Iran admits to accidentally shooting down airliner.

“Human error”
https://apple.news/AJ-qk4CDLSpimfDneoZPyjg

Just a ? If Baffoon doesn’t order the assasination of General does this plane get shot down? 

Just a question...if the US embassy wasn’t attacked does trump kill the general? This is why this argument gets really fuzzy and ultimately Iran owns shooting down and killing all those people

what about if we had not invaded iraq, would the embassy even be there to be attacked? Everything we do in that region has a consequence and as long as we are there, we will reap the consequences in perpetuity until we get out of the region.

And the point is missed. If we are just going to blame previous actions for all subsequent actions then we have a long way to go.

iran owns killing those people with their inept “self-defense”