RANT

JohnnieBeBlue

OK, I'm a bit steamed right now and I may regret writing some of this and some of the language, but so be it. This needs to be said. Let me also add that this is coming purely from me and not from the member who I mention below who I don't know from Adam. Wall of text ahead.

A post recently by supernaut1125 mentioned that he was behind on some bills due to the holidays and he had to sell some of his posters to come up with "the money quick." He was clearly pressed for money and for time and was pretty obviously not a "flipper" whatever the fuck that means nowadays.

The guy had a Moline AP #1 and was asking $180. This is obviously higher than what he paid for it originally, but we all know the crazy demand and the real value of this poster. Now, here is where I don't want you to misunderstand me. If you buy something and would like to sell it to another fan who will truly appreciate it and do not want to price gouge, that is super cool. I myself have been the beneficiary of much generosity from fellow fans through some great deals and I've done my best to pass it forward as well. But this here was clearly not the case. This was not someone trying to be generous to get someone his or her holy grail at a fair and reasonable price. This was someone selling his OWN holy grail to pay some fucking bills, and to me that makes a HUGE difference. Being the stand-up guy that he is, supernaut1125 didn't want to feel like he was overcharging for a rare print. That's very nice of him. But on the other hand, FUCK ALL OF YOU who jumped at this deal. The dude is short of money for holiday bills and the last three Moline APs sold for $300+ on eBay. And those weren't AP number fucking 1. This guy is selling his holy grail, a literal one of a kind #1 print in order to pay some bills, and he asks for less than half of what it's worth. Instead of saying, "Hey man, you know this is a ridiculous price," someone just snatched it up.

Look, I believe in the free market. I'm not a communist. The seller could have done better research beforehand to estimate the value of the print. Hell, I hope the buyer is a real fan, appreciates the print, and that it winds up on his/her wall until the day s/he dies. But I still gotta say, FUCK that buyer and FUCK all of you who take advantage of people with good hearts like supernaut1125 who think more about not ripping people off than they do about paying their own fucking bills. Maybe let him know, "Hey man, that's a really generous offer, but I see that you are in a tough spot, and you know, you really could get more for this print." Fuck, I'm pissed off over this.

badbrains

I don't agree with u most of the time but on this, I def do. I didn't know this happened, reading this for the first time. Pretty fucked up if someone took advantage of this guy on this deal. Not cool.

JB23237

And then bragged about it on Facebook

a5pj

Yea this doesn't happen that often. I usually try to pm people when they are selling something so low, most of the time they know and are just trying to move it. I've only called ppl out like 2x for way overcharging to the point of ripping ppl off, which happens a lot. I usually just let it slide.

On the other hand Lost Dogs is where pj fans should be able to find a deal and not have to pay ebay fee's. So good on Supernaut - he made a huge profit, and gave another fan a deal. I see nothing wrong with that.

JB23237

From what I read he threw in the pixies print too.....so not a huge profit

scurtis

I dont have any feelings either way, I look at it the same as when someone over sells something if they're both happy then all good.

I didn't feel too good seeing the bragging on FB though.

badbrains

Who ended up buying the print?

drsluggo

It is what it is... if he charged $400 it probably would've taken a long time to sell, if ever. Definitely could've gotten more, but who knows how much.

I saw it and I believe it was listed @ $200 and thought about it but I have the show print so it would just sit in a portfolio forever. Hopefully whoever buys it frames it up and it has a good home forever. Probably shouldn't gloat on eBay about it - and probably shouldn't mention they also bought the show edition from them, but again - it is what it is. There are way worse offenders around here than a guy happy about getting a good deal on a poster he plans on keeping!

JohnnieBeBlue

scurtis wrote: »

I dont have any feelings either way, I look at it the same as when someone over sells something if they're both happy then all good.

I didn't feel too good seeing the bragging on FB though.

What makes you think the seller was "happy"? He sounds like he was desperate for cash and took the first deal. Probably why he lowered it from $200 to $180 so quickly. Oh, and buying the shoe print also? Why would anyone buy both if they didn't plan to flip one or use it as trade bait? The Facebook bragging just confirms everything I've said. Fuck that guy.

High Fidelity 2000

Nobody forced him to sell it for $180. He obviously wanted to sell fast AND maybe give someone a good deal. Geez people ask for too high a price and people complain. They ask for too low a price and people complain. Seems like a great deal, guess he could have gotten some more cash pretty easily. Oh well.

supernaut1125

Thanks so much for coming to my defense buddy! I don't want to gripe or call anyone out at all. It is what it is I guess and all karma comes back around eventually.

Suziemay

Understand your rant, however, the buyer didn't do anything wrong. Taking out the seller's personal situation, would you still feel as strongly that he was "taken advantage" of? If someone was skilled enough to score the Moline AP, I would bet that they aren't a rookie poster collector so the seller probably was aware of what he was doing.

At the end of the day, it's just been a few months before the poster exchanged hands so in my mind, selling it for face or something close to it isn't that big of a deal, but maybe that makes me stupid/gullible. True that it doesn't reflect market value, but I think market value for all things Pearl Jam has been completely out of whack anyway. If the seller had posted it for market value without noting his personal situation, people would probably have jumped all over him calling him a flipper. So many schools of thought about what's acceptable and what constitutes flipping.

I'll stop rambling. Good luck to supernaut1125 and JohnnieBeBlue, hope you're not to torn up by this. If both buyer and seller are happy with their actions, it's really none of the rest of our business.

badbrains

Bragging about it on FB is WRONG.

JohnnieBeBlue

Suziemay wrote: »

I'll stop rambling. Good luck to supernaut1125 and JohnnieBeBlue, hope you're not to torn up by this. If both buyer and seller are happy with their actions, it's really none of the rest of our business.

You're right. It really isn't my business. I never berate people for asking market value or even for more. It's a free country ask whatever you want. Nobody is forcing anyone to pay your price. Just don't take advantage of someone who is down on his luck. But hey, you're 100% right. It's none of my business.

JohnnieBeBlue

badbrains wrote: »

Bragging about it on FB is WRONG.

And like I said, even though it is none of my business, fuck that guy.

JustaPJFan

Was he bragging about it? If you really get this one for such little money, you should be thankfull the rest of your live. Best deal you will ever get. But the guy who sold it was too kind. He was the opposite of a flipper. Respect him. But if someone really is in a hurry of money, you will take what you get. I know some of my friends have been on the same boat.

whofeelslikeadrank

wow. i read the comments on FB, but at no point did i sense a braggart. i don't personally know either party involved, but if each were happy with the deal... where's the beef?

JohnnieBeBlue

Some comments were deleted, so you can't really get the gist of the conversation the way it's written now. Whatever. I'm probably overreacting.

whofeelslikeadrank

deleted comments would make more sense about why i didn't see him bragging. not trying to discredit your opinion OP.

PJ_Soul

I don't think it's a buyer's responsibility to up a posted price. The seller listed a price, and someone took the offer. That seems completely on the up and up to me. The seller needs to decide on a price, and it only up to that person how they go about deciding on that price. If the seller actually didn't bother to check out the average selling price on a similar item to figure out what he should list it for, that is 100% his problem. And for that matter, do we know that the seller just didn't know any better? I know I've sold stuff for under market value just because I was paying it forward, as was mentioned. This is how people "find a great deal" - they wait until someone posts that great price. It is not their responsibility to find out how the seller arrived at that amount. I know that pretty much EVERYONE here would only be stoked if they found someone who was selling, say, Binaural for $150, and I know that people who find great deals on vinyl or posters tend to brag about it later, and everyone says, "nice score!!". So I don't think this particular buyer deserves any less.

To the buyer of that poster: Nice score!

JohnnieBeBlue

PJ_Soul, while I respect your opinion, I have to disagree here. Like I mentioned, there's a big difference when someone sells something to a fellow fan below market value in order to give them a deal vs someone who is clearly in a tough spot and is reluctantly selling off their precious itemsl. I've been on both sides of the former equation and would gladly say "nice score" if that were the case.

PJ_Soul

Fair enough, I'll respect your opinion too, but still disagree. :P No matter what the reason is behind the sale, the seller is the one who chose the selling price. Now, is there a reason why you think the seller is just oblivious? Because most people are fully aware of the value of what they would call their holy grail.

buck502000

Hey, I purchased these prints from Super. I was not bragging about it. Super and I made other deals too. Chill out.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

The pendulum is swinging back now: it's no longer a case of the 'flipper' being the guy with bad values... it's the 'buyer'.

pdalowsky

whofeelslikeadrank wrote: »

wow. i read the comments on FB, but at no point did i sense a braggart. i don't personally know either party involved, but if each were happy with the deal... where's the beef?

I was puzzled too.

Hey this deal is nothing compared to the one on ebay last week for the fully signed one.......:)

Suziemay

JohnnieBeBlue wrote: »

PJ_Soul, while I respect your opinion, I have to disagree here. Like I mentioned, there's a big difference when someone sells something to a fellow fan below market value in order to give them a deal vs someone who is clearly in a tough spot and is reluctantly selling off their precious itemsl. I've been on both sides of the former equation and would gladly say "nice score" if that were the case.

I just found the post where supernaut1125 posted it for sale. He linked it to the ebeans AP version. Don't know any of the parties involved, but I'd venture to guess that supernaut1125 was very aware of what a good deal he was offering up. I don't think you should be upset on his behalf, and he may not even appreciate that this is now a topic of discussion. Again, just speculation on my part.

http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/241931/for-sale-moline-arist-edition-and-many-more-with-free-shiiping#latest

drsluggo

The only thing this thread is going to accomplish is making the seller feel ripped off, which is unfortunate since it would appear both sides were good with the transaction yesterday.

And, btw, I've been on the side of dumping stuff to get money quick and it sucks - a lot. I knew at the time I could've gotten more for it had I been able to wait, but I couldn't wait so I took less and to this day regret that I sold the stuff but it had to be done.

I hope the seller is OK with the sale and I hope the buyer enjoys the print.

buck502000

I know right? I flew from Europe last year to go to Moline. I got shut out at the show, I got shut out during the Invisible Industries drop, hell, I also got shut out here at the the 10C. WTF do you want me to do?

whofeelslikeadrank

the seller definitely knows value and what he's looking for in a sale. i too, made a purchase from him. we were both satisfied with the deal. i didn't make any offers, he approached me. he was very clear that he knew the tools available to gauge price, as that is how we found common ground. i would be really surprised if either of the parties involved were oblivious.

JohnnieBeBlue

Nobody said he was oblivious. He's just more concerned about people calling him out for price gouging that he couldn't even ask for more than half the market value despite being in financial hardship. Honestly, this has already gotten more attention than I care for. I hear both sides.

Enjoy the AP print. And the Pixies print. And the show print. Hang them all up next to each other.

elwayvedder

i've been on both ends of things and for me, lesson learned on all of it whether i benefited and later felt badly or the buyer benefited and I regretted it.
Let's all Just Breathe and to make things better - everyone send me your PJ guitar picks and all will be better