It never ceases to blow me away- the horrible nature of things that some fundamentalist-sociopathic-maggots (of any race, color, religion, creed, etc.) are capable of inflicting on their fellow humans- especially when it's the young who are targeted. Very sad.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
In response to Ben: Read this am that first thing perps said after storming school was God is Great. Do believe "Belief" is more powerful than nationalism.
In response to Ben: Read this am that first thing perps said after storming school was God is Great. Do believe "Belief" is more powerful than nationalism.
I believe you are right Cal.Religion makes people do some stupid fucking things.
I agree with RR and callen, religious belief is deeper than nationalism, but i agree with benjs that those who are prone to be zealous would convert that passion to nationalism and make it into a sort of religion, as we have seen in secular states like stalinist russia, nazi germany, and north korea. In the end, rational folks always get swept under in the tide of extremism.
Religious belief is far deeper for me than nationalism. Heck, if anything, I'm anti-nationalism.
That being said, my religion tells me to love and forgive everyone, and specifically tells me not to kill. I think it also has some words against harming children particularly.
I think most of the religions out there are similar to mine, so that these people may be CLAIMING religious beliefs are driving them to this, but in reality, they have distorted the tenets of those religions to justify their own thirst for violence.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I would say that here in the US, nationalism is stronger than religion. Many have claimed a faith but I don't think they really mean it. It's just a way to keep the herd in line.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
This is exactly why this scourge needs to be exterminated.And for those who like to always counter with "well the west created this problem with its occupation and depleted uranium shells,blah,blah,blah.Give it a fucking break.We didn't cause these murderering low life scum to shoot up a cafe in Australlia and slaughter a school full of children (again).No apologists on this one please.There is no excuse for tolerating this behavior from any radical group.
nuclear waste, deformities, military occupation, dead kids.....blah blah blah? Lash out all you want man, but when you let your emotions guide actual policy, you end up in a worse spot than the one you started in. You seem to like to associate criticism of imperialist policy with support for turror. Like, every time it comes up. Why? B&W. For us or against us. This backhanded shot at me and anyone else who talks causation is totally unnecessary. No one here is an apologist for murdering 100+ kids. Are you fucking kidding me?
If there is anything I've learned from AMT, the US has been poking their nose into every corner of the world, yet incidents like this are isolated to one region.
Over there I wouldn't doubt it.Ur right it's all FUBAR.
Over there? One region? what does that mean? The middle east? you guys know Pakistan isn't in the middle east, right? Do yo mean muslim majority countries? Or just non-white, euro-centric countries? Or...?
Russian school killings....Norwegian youth killings....columbine....hello.
prejudice and exceptionalism rear their ugly heads, right on cue....
Know1, your religion may tell you not to kill, to love everyone, and not harm children, but your Holy texts are also full of people hating, killing, and harming children in God's name, by God's command. So in reality they are letting their Holy books lead by example.
This is exactly why this scourge needs to be exterminated.And for those who like to always counter with "well the west created this problem with its occupation and depleted uranium shells,blah,blah,blah.Give it a fucking break.We didn't cause these murderering low life scum to shoot up a cafe in Australlia and slaughter a school full of children (again).No apologists on this one please.There is no excuse for tolerating this behavior from any radical group.
nuclear waste, deformities, military occupation, dead kids.....blah blah blah? Lash out all you want man, but when you let your emotions guide actual policy, you end up in a worse spot than the one you started in. You seem to like to associate criticism of imperialist policy with support for turror. Like, every time it comes up. Why? B&W. For us or against us. This backhanded shot at me and anyone else who talks causation is totally unnecessary. No one here is an apologist for murdering 100+ kids. Are you fucking kidding me?
If there is anything I've learned from AMT, the US has been poking their nose into every corner of the world, yet incidents like this are isolated to one region.
Over there I wouldn't doubt it.Ur right it's all FUBAR.
Over there? One region? what does that mean? The middle east? you guys know Pakistan isn't in the middle east, right? Do yo mean muslim majority countries? Or just non-white, euro-centric countries? Or...?
Russian school killings....Norwegian youth killings....columbine....hello.
prejudice and exceptionalism rear their ugly heads, right on cue....
There you again Drowned.Blame the U.S. policy for the actions of sick Islamic Terrorist.This ain't on the "Imperialists".
I take exception to your predujudice claim.I am not anti anyone.I have zero problems with people of Muslim faith.I have a problem with those who pervert these faiths with myopic twisted views.I do however question some of the activities that take place in predominately Islamic nations and the continued abuse of human rights and individual freedoms in the name of religion.
And I wasn't singling you out with my comments although you do seem to blame the actions of the west as a reason for the terrorist behavior.
Know1, your religion may tell you not to kill, to love everyone, and not harm children, but your Holy texts are also full of people hating, killing, and harming children in God's name, by God's command. So in reality they are letting their Holy books lead by example.
There is a big difference between the past (Old Testament) and the present (New Testament). Basically every sermon at my church talks about loving people and that's what I believe in.
My only point was to say that people can be deeply religious and be vehemently opposed to harming others.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Know1, your religion may tell you not to kill, to love everyone, and not harm children, but your Holy texts are also full of people hating, killing, and harming children in God's name, by God's command. So in reality they are letting their Holy books lead by example.
There is a big difference between the past (Old Testament) and the present (New Testament). Basically every sermon at my church talks about loving people and that's what I believe in.
My only point was to say that people can be deeply religious and be vehemently opposed to harming others.
I agree with your point, but I would refute your premise. Your implication is that hatred, murder and harm to children are exclusively found in the Old Testament (not the New Testament). In Judaism, Jews look to the Old Testament for guidance, and having been in synagogue more times than I can count and heard rabbis discuss the Torah portion of the week - I rarely have heard a mention of violence. When I do, it's either a condemnation of violence in the modern world, or an analysis of violence in the texts: and in that case, there's typically an allegorical explanation to accompany it, and to pivot the focus from the violence, to the underlaying moral which can be separated from the violence. I would assume that similarly, while you may only have heard love preached in your church, the violence is indeed present in the New Testament.
In addition to this theory - did Jesus not preach the value of the Old Testament himself? In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." If a good Christian follows in the footsteps of Jesus, and Jesus is in favour of fulfilling the laws of the Old Testament, then the "oh, that old book? It's antiquated" argument doesn't really work: if you live your life following Jesus, and Jesus recommends you follow the Old Testament - what's the difference?
The only consistency across every religion that I've seen is that the writing is highly ambiguous (likely by design). When you have ambiguous text which can promote the love of life or the destruction of life - you provide the members of your religion with a 'get out of jail free' card for every horrific action they make (in fact, you give them a pat on the back), and reinforce their faith with every good deed that's condoned by both society and members of your own religion.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
This is exactly why this scourge needs to be exterminated.And for those who like to always counter with "well the west created this problem with its occupation and depleted uranium shells,blah,blah,blah.Give it a fucking break.We didn't cause these murderering low life scum to shoot up a cafe in Australlia and slaughter a school full of children (again).No apologists on this one please.There is no excuse for tolerating this behavior from any radical group.
nuclear waste, deformities, military occupation, dead kids.....blah blah blah? Lash out all you want man, but when you let your emotions guide actual policy, you end up in a worse spot than the one you started in. You seem to like to associate criticism of imperialist policy with support for turror. Like, every time it comes up. Why? B&W. For us or against us. This backhanded shot at me and anyone else who talks causation is totally unnecessary. No one here is an apologist for murdering 100+ kids. Are you fucking kidding me?
If there is anything I've learned from AMT, the US has been poking their nose into every corner of the world, yet incidents like this are isolated to one region.
Over there I wouldn't doubt it.Ur right it's all FUBAR.
Over there? One region? what does that mean? The middle east? you guys know Pakistan isn't in the middle east, right? Do yo mean muslim majority countries? Or just non-white, euro-centric countries? Or...?
Russian school killings....Norwegian youth killings....columbine....hello.
prejudice and exceptionalism rear their ugly heads, right on cue....
I consider Pakistan part of the middle east. What region is it?
This is exactly why this scourge needs to be exterminated.And for those who like to always counter with "well the west created this problem with its occupation and depleted uranium shells,blah,blah,blah.Give it a fucking break.We didn't cause these murderering low life scum to shoot up a cafe in Australlia and slaughter a school full of children (again).No apologists on this one please.There is no excuse for tolerating this behavior from any radical group.
nuclear waste, deformities, military occupation, dead kids.....blah blah blah? Lash out all you want man, but when you let your emotions guide actual policy, you end up in a worse spot than the one you started in. You seem to like to associate criticism of imperialist policy with support for turror. Like, every time it comes up. Why? B&W. For us or against us. This backhanded shot at me and anyone else who talks causation is totally unnecessary. No one here is an apologist for murdering 100+ kids. Are you fucking kidding me?
If there is anything I've learned from AMT, the US has been poking their nose into every corner of the world, yet incidents like this are isolated to one region.
Over there I wouldn't doubt it.Ur right it's all FUBAR.
Over there? One region? what does that mean? The middle east? you guys know Pakistan isn't in the middle east, right? Do yo mean muslim majority countries? Or just non-white, euro-centric countries? Or...?
Russian school killings....Norwegian youth killings....columbine....hello.
prejudice and exceptionalism rear their ugly heads, right on cue....
I consider Pakistan part of the middle east. What region is it?
I've always thought of it as being a bridge between South Asia (i.e. India and east of it) and the Middle East. Technically, I think it's within Asia.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm curious, how relatively calm was the Mid East "before" 2000?
That's a interesting question BB.Because with The Iranian hostage crisis,then the Gulf war 1,Russia dicking around in Afgahnastan back in the day.Khadaffi getting Missles lobbed at his house.Beruit was a cluster.
During Clinton era I thought the Israeli/Palestine peace process was at its closest point and kinda mellow.Mogadishu was fucked and we were helping the Muslims with the whole Serb thing.and of course the first Trade center bomb.
We lit the fuse of this nonsense 2 decades prior and it all changed I think after the first gulf war and who we chose to befriend in the area.
I'm curious, how relatively calm was the Mid East "before" 2000?
That's a interesting question BB.Because with The Iranian hostage crisis,then the Gulf war 1,Russia dicking around in Afgahnastan back in the day.Khadaffi getting Missles lobbed at his house.Beruit was a cluster.
During Clinton era I thought the Israeli/Palestine peace process was at its closest point and kinda mellow.Mogadishu was fucked and we were helping the Muslims with the whole Serb thing.and of course the first Trade center bomb.
We lit the fuse of this nonsense 2 decades prior and it all changed I think after the first gulf war and who we chose to befriend in the area.
Don't forget about the initially British, followed by joint, then solely US presence in Iran as they orchestrated the overthrow of the government in the '50s in an effort to ensure that they could control and profit from Iranian oil. Bribery, threats, people paid to riot in the streets, all documented and publicly available now in CIA files. Hell, they even made a best-selling comic-style app about it (it's fantastic, free, and called Operation Ajax for those interested).
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
i never understood killing in the name of a god, a faith, a religion, etc.
i mean, if god wanted a certain group of people dead, why the fuck can't his/her all powerful ass do it themselves and leave the rest of us out of this vendetta??
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
i can't even begin to wrap my head around this.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I believe you are right Cal.Religion makes people do some stupid fucking things.
That being said, my religion tells me to love and forgive everyone, and specifically tells me not to kill. I think it also has some words against harming children particularly.
I think most of the religions out there are similar to mine, so that these people may be CLAIMING religious beliefs are driving them to this, but in reality, they have distorted the tenets of those religions to justify their own thirst for violence.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Over there? One region? what does that mean? The middle east? you guys know Pakistan isn't in the middle east, right? Do yo mean muslim majority countries? Or just non-white, euro-centric countries? Or...?
Russian school killings....Norwegian youth killings....columbine....hello.
prejudice and exceptionalism rear their ugly heads, right on cue....
I take exception to your predujudice claim.I am not anti anyone.I have zero problems with people of Muslim faith.I have a problem with those who pervert these faiths with myopic twisted views.I do however question some of the activities that take place in predominately Islamic nations and the continued abuse of human rights and individual freedoms in the name of religion.
And I wasn't singling you out with my comments although you do seem to blame the actions of the west as a reason for the terrorist behavior.
There is a big difference between the past (Old Testament) and the present (New Testament). Basically every sermon at my church talks about loving people and that's what I believe in.
My only point was to say that people can be deeply religious and be vehemently opposed to harming others.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I agree with your point, but I would refute your premise. Your implication is that hatred, murder and harm to children are exclusively found in the Old Testament (not the New Testament). In Judaism, Jews look to the Old Testament for guidance, and having been in synagogue more times than I can count and heard rabbis discuss the Torah portion of the week - I rarely have heard a mention of violence. When I do, it's either a condemnation of violence in the modern world, or an analysis of violence in the texts: and in that case, there's typically an allegorical explanation to accompany it, and to pivot the focus from the violence, to the underlaying moral which can be separated from the violence. I would assume that similarly, while you may only have heard love preached in your church, the violence is indeed present in the New Testament.
In addition to this theory - did Jesus not preach the value of the Old Testament himself? In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." If a good Christian follows in the footsteps of Jesus, and Jesus is in favour of fulfilling the laws of the Old Testament, then the "oh, that old book? It's antiquated" argument doesn't really work: if you live your life following Jesus, and Jesus recommends you follow the Old Testament - what's the difference?
The only consistency across every religion that I've seen is that the writing is highly ambiguous (likely by design). When you have ambiguous text which can promote the love of life or the destruction of life - you provide the members of your religion with a 'get out of jail free' card for every horrific action they make (in fact, you give them a pat on the back), and reinforce their faith with every good deed that's condoned by both society and members of your own religion.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It wasn't.
I consider Pakistan part of the middle east. What region is it?
I've always thought of it as being a bridge between South Asia (i.e. India and east of it) and the Middle East. Technically, I think it's within Asia.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
That's a interesting question BB.Because with The Iranian hostage crisis,then the Gulf war 1,Russia dicking around in Afgahnastan back in the day.Khadaffi getting Missles lobbed at his house.Beruit was a cluster.
During Clinton era I thought the Israeli/Palestine peace process was at its closest point and kinda mellow.Mogadishu was fucked and we were helping the Muslims with the whole Serb thing.and of course the first Trade center bomb.
We lit the fuse of this nonsense 2 decades prior and it all changed I think after the first gulf war and who we chose to befriend in the area.
Don't forget about the initially British, followed by joint, then solely US presence in Iran as they orchestrated the overthrow of the government in the '50s in an effort to ensure that they could control and profit from Iranian oil. Bribery, threats, people paid to riot in the streets, all documented and publicly available now in CIA files. Hell, they even made a best-selling comic-style app about it (it's fantastic, free, and called Operation Ajax for those interested).
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
You're right, my apologies! I'm pretty sure Pakistan is still not considered the Middle East.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
i mean, if god wanted a certain group of people dead, why the fuck can't his/her all powerful ass do it themselves and leave the rest of us out of this vendetta??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."