How does your Pono sound?

Zod

I missed out on the original kickstarted preorder. My Cowon S9 recent lost another button so I've ordered a Fiio X3 to replace it. It was about $170 bucks. It has a high quality DAC, comes with 8gb's internal memory and a microsd slot that can fit a 64gb card (so 72gb's total). It can play both FLAC and HD FLAC formats (and the usual mp3, m4a etc..)

I'd be curious to know how much better then PONO is that this thing. Fiio has a higher end model (the x5) that's an extra $150.. the reviews are mixed as to which device actually has better sound quality.

The Pono at full price seems pretty expensive (400 USD). That would be around $450cdn plus someone posted that they had to pay about $95 in duties to import theres, so your looking at $550 cdn... ouch!

The main selling point of a high quality DAP (digital audio player) is the quality of the DAC. You don't need high res files (HD FLAC) to benefit from a kickass DAC (the technology that converts digital data to analog sound). You don't really have to rebuy our catalog to take advantage of a better DAC. It will make standard CD quality FLAC sound much better too.

DAC's in Smartphones (which is how all the kids listen to music) are generally mediocre, so it's going to be easy for the Pono to out perform smartphones. My question is how much better will a PONO sound compared to the other high quality DAP devices out there that can be bought for much less money? The audiophile market is still a niche market. Is the PONO's quality going to be so good it's worth the sticker price... that's what i'm wondering.

buck502000

Zod said:

I missed out on the original kickstarted preorder. My Cowon S9 recent lost another button so I've ordered a Fiio X3 to replace it. It was about $170 bucks. It has a high quality DAC, comes with 8gb's internal memory and a microsd slot that can fit a 64gb card (so 72gb's total). It can play both FLAC and HD FLAC formats (and the usual mp3, m4a etc..)

I'd be curious to know how much better then PONO is that this thing. Fiio has a higher end model (the x5) that's an extra $150.. the reviews are mixed as to which device actually has better sound quality.

The Pono at full price seems pretty expensive (400 USD). That would be around $450cdn plus someone posted that they had to pay about $95 in duties to import theres, so your looking at $550 cdn... ouch!

The main selling point of a high quality DAP (digital audio player) is the quality of the DAC. You don't need high res files (HD FLAC) to benefit from a kickass DAC (the technology that converts digital data to analog sound). You don't really have to rebuy our catalog to take advantage of a better DAC. It will make standard CD quality FLAC sound much better too.

DAC's in Smartphones (which is how all the kids listen to music) are generally mediocre, so it's going to be easy for the Pono to out perform smartphones. My question is how much better will a PONO sound compared to the other high quality DAP devices out there that can be bought for much less money? The audiophile market is still a niche market. Is the PONO's quality going to be so good it's worth the sticker price... that's what i'm wondering.

But your FIIO doesn't say Pearl Jam or had bad facsimile autographs on it....

MedozK

Hopefully this push towards Hi-res music will also push towards better mastering processes. Making something more loud, and taking away from the overall dynamic range is not good...even if its 24 bit.

Kev - Coat and Keys

lolobugg said:

Nice.... can't wait to pick mine up.
You had me cracking up in the other thread.

Thanks Man - I was getting too frustrated by some people. I keep forgetting the music isn't the important thing for everyone. Fortunately it is for a lot of us.

MedozK said:

Hopefully this push towards Hi-res music will also push towards better mastering processes. Making something more loud, and taking away from the overall dynamic range is not good...even if its 24 bit.

Yes, that is it. The more Hi-Res players and users, will lead to more HI-Res being bought and so more will be available. I hope.

lolobugg

Kev - Coat and Keys said:

lolobugg said:

Nice.... can't wait to pick mine up.
You had me cracking up in the other thread.

Thanks Man - I was getting too frustrated by some people. I keep forgetting the music isn't the important thing for everyone. Fortunately it is for a lot of us.

MedozK said:

Hopefully this push towards Hi-res music will also push towards better mastering processes. Making something more loud, and taking away from the overall dynamic range is not good...even if its 24 bit.

Yes, that is it. The more Hi-Res players and users, will lead to more HI-Res being bought and so more will be available. I hope.

I find the PJ collector mentality a little weird. I mean I buy my share of merch but I would never buy a sticker because it has "PJ" on it. I think some people bought these just for the autographs.

and also I am hoping to see HD music get popular and hopefully drive some of these prices down. In some cases they are charging the same as the physical product. SACD, vinyl, etc.

PJ_Soul

lolobugg said:

They can break it down all they want in to technical terms.
I know what I hear when I put a vinyl record on vs. the CD version.
listen to NY and Crazy Horse.. Live Rust on both formats and then they can shove their sine wave science up their rear-end.
Hope that PONO captures that for digital.

) Well said. I too trust my own ears more than any article blabbing about the science of audio formats! Vinyl rules the roost as far my eardrums are concerned.

PJ_Soul

on2legs said:

I think if you are an uber Pearl Jam collector buying the PJ signature model was a good move if you can spare the cash.

If you are looking for a portable player capable of playing high quality digital files, I would wait for a later generation of these players. They will surely improve the design and portability in the next couple years.

That was my feeling too. I'm going to wait until the second generation at least, and until they are $200 (hopefully by then they will have done away with the stupid triangle design).

MedozK

As much as I have heard negative about the appearence...I kinda like it..hope it sounds great and comes down in price. I would gladly pay $200 for a high quality Digital Audio Player.

PJ_Soul

MedozK said:

As much as I have heard negative about the appearence...I kinda like it..hope it sounds great and comes down in price. I would gladly pay $200 for a high quality Digital Audio Player.

I like how it looks. I just don't like how it carries. I can't put that thing in my pocket.

october22

MedozK said:

As much as I have heard negative about the appearence...I kinda like it..hope it sounds great and comes down in price. I would gladly pay $200 for a high quality Digital Audio Player.

I actually love the design. I think it's going to look awesome on my desk and since I don't plan on using it at the gym or anything, pocket comfort isn't really a big deal. I believe them when they say they couldn't smash all the components into something flat and I think the triangle is a great compromise that sits and displays perfectly.

2-feign-reluctance

Damn you PONO! Why do you have to look so good?!

MedozK

benjs said:

lolobugg said:

MedozK said:

All I know is that AIFF takes up a lot more storage.

Yeah, my friend says it is an Apple file format that he uses with a recording program called Logic Pro. It gives you the option to convert to WAV files or AIFF. but you are correct, FLAC takes up less space with no degradation.

I guess based on what he says, AIFF is more for the editing side of it and FLAC is the final product. maybe??
have you seen any files for sale in AIFF?

I think Apple's done a bad job of explaining and/or marketing their formats.

Apple's equivalent to WAV is AIFF - lossless, and uncompressed.
Their equivalent to FLAC is Apple Lossless - lossless, and compressed.
Their equivalent to MP3 is AAC - lossy, and compressed.
While AAC and MP3 can differ based on the way the compression algorithms affect different bit rates of audio, WAV should more or less equal AIFF in size (and should be equivalent in quality), and FLAC should more or less equal Apple Lossless in size (and should be equivalent in quality). Also, WAV and AIFF may be great for recording because on-the-fly compressing and uncompressing are taxing on a system with large files (and multiple tracks), but us consumers aren't mixing - just playing back. The point of lossless audio is just that: there is no loss. Hence, FLAC, Apple Lossless, WAV, and AIFF, are identical audio tracks with no degradation in quality, and it is best to opt for FLAC or Apple Lossless for playback: far smaller size, no downside.

For any Mac users, XLD is free and will convert from FLAC to Apple Lossless in literally seconds - it's just uncompressing it with one known algorithm, and recompressing it with another known algorithm.

The two biggest differences between an iOS device and the Pono as far as I can tell are the ability to play 24-bit (which requires software - Pono does this out of the box, Apple has not enabled 24-bit playback although there are rumours they will), and the ability to output with that high fidelity (this requires digital-audio converters, which Pono has higher quality DACs, and it's not been confirmed but theoretically the DACs in at least the iPhone 6 can output 24-bit).

Rather than have a Toblerone with headphones plugged in residing in my pocket, I just pre-ordered one of these (https://www.ampaudio.com). Even if the digital-audio converters (DACs) are only marginally superior to Apple's own DACs (custom Cirrus Audio components apparently), the Amp extracts audio from the Lightning connector directly (aka line quality) and in 24-bit (compared to iOS's stock 16-bit maximum), gives you a bit more battery juice (and the ability to charge with MicroUSB) and does some amplification (which is great since my headphones are 250 ohm and I find it needs a bit more of a drive sometimes). To be clear - SoundFocus (the company that makes Amp Audio) will need to develop a playback engine that outputs 24-bit through the Lightning connector in order for the DACs to receive a 24-bit signal to decode, and music will not be storable in the standard Music Library on iOS devices until the time when Apple decides to allow 24-bit playback. Because of this, my understanding is that 24-bit files would only be accessible through the companion app or a third-party 24-bit audio player, and only when the Amp is attached.

/geek talk concluded

Nice Information

BikePHL

I haven't have a chance to plug my Grado headphones into the Pono, but even with the junk headphones I have with me I can hear a significant different in quality over an iPod. I can't wait to get the Pono hooked up to a tube amp and see how it sounds.

I hope record companies start selling vinyl with hi res digital downloads like they do for MP3s. Otherwise this will be a pretty crappy situation.

mr_perfect

can someone let us know the sound quality of the pj albums that come with the pono player to the versions previously released on hdtracks.com?

Big Bank Hank

one of the albums available is Vs and I am sure anyone who bought it in here probably bought that as well, so it will be interesting to see how much of a difference in sound there is once people start getting their players, because I am sure a lot of you have that album on vinyl too, so it should be interesting to see if they really captured that feel or not, or if it is something different

High Fidelity 2000

The title of this thread just sounds dirty to me.

DirtyFrankAndBeans

No reviews yet? Guess ill start us off! AMAZING!! Ive never listened to any vinyl so I dont know what to compare it too but I know what I heard was music like ive never heard before! My beats are broke so first I put in standard buds skull candy I think and it blew me away. Almost sounds fake its so crisp and clean no background noise at all. Then I hooked it up to my ihome and was even more impressed. Cant wait to get my beats on or in a nice car system people will be blown away. At first I had a little buyers remorse just because I didnt know what to expect and figured it would sit on my shelf.... NEGATIVE! Its my new travel buddy if it gets scratched up eff it I dont care. But I will keep it in that sweet leather case! Good work Neil

october22

DirtyFrankAndBeans said:

No reviews yet? Guess ill start us off! AMAZING!! Ive never listened to any vinyl so I dont know what to compare it too but I know what I heard was music like ive never heard before! My beats are broke so first I put in standard buds skull candy I think and it blew me away. Almost sounds fake its so crisp and clean no background noise at all. Then I hooked it up to my ihome and was even more impressed. Cant wait to get my beats on or in a nice car system people will be blown away. At first I had a little buyers remorse just because I didnt know what to expect and figured it would sit on my shelf.... NEGATIVE! Its my new travel buddy if it gets scratched up eff it I dont care. But I will keep it in that sweet leather case! Good work Neil

Great, man! Happy to read that. Is it functional at all in the case? Any button or at least headphone access?

DirtyFrankAndBeans

Its not really functional in case because of the shape of it and its got a zipper on the top of it. But im sure u could leave it unzipped on one side to get the cord out. Case would def fit in pocket its thin but seems to be nice leather

october22

DirtyFrankAndBeans said:

Its not really functional in case because of the shape of it and its got a zipper on the top of it. But im sure u could leave it unzipped on one side to get the cord out. Case would def fit in pocket its thin but seems to be nice leather

Cool. One of these days I'll get shipping confirmation and hopefully be able to see for myself!

pdalowsky

lolobugg said:

Kev - Coat and Keys said:

lolobugg said:

Nice.... can't wait to pick mine up.
You had me cracking up in the other thread.

Thanks Man - I was getting too frustrated by some people. I keep forgetting the music isn't the important thing for everyone. Fortunately it is for a lot of us.

MedozK said:

Hopefully this push towards Hi-res music will also push towards better mastering processes. Making something more loud, and taking away from the overall dynamic range is not good...even if its 24 bit.

Yes, that is it. The more Hi-Res players and users, will lead to more HI-Res being bought and so more will be available. I hope.

I find the PJ collector mentality a little weird. I mean I buy my share of merch but I would never buy a sticker because it has "PJ" on it. I think some people bought these just for the autographs.

and also I am hoping to see HD music get popular and hopefully drive some of these prices down. In some cases they are charging the same as the physical product. SACD, vinyl, etc.

ask yourself if those autographs or the name Pearl Jam wasn't important - why did they even make them? why didn't they just release the black and yellow general ones. Of course people bought them for the branding, that was exactly the idea and attraction

lolobugg

pdalowsky said:

lolobugg said:

Kev - Coat and Keys said:

lolobugg said:

Nice.... can't wait to pick mine up.
You had me cracking up in the other thread.

Thanks Man - I was getting too frustrated by some people. I keep forgetting the music isn't the important thing for everyone. Fortunately it is for a lot of us.

MedozK said:

Hopefully this push towards Hi-res music will also push towards better mastering processes. Making something more loud, and taking away from the overall dynamic range is not good...even if its 24 bit.

Yes, that is it. The more Hi-Res players and users, will lead to more HI-Res being bought and so more will be available. I hope.

I find the PJ collector mentality a little weird. I mean I buy my share of merch but I would never buy a sticker because it has "PJ" on it. I think some people bought these just for the autographs.

and also I am hoping to see HD music get popular and hopefully drive some of these prices down. In some cases they are charging the same as the physical product. SACD, vinyl, etc.

ask yourself if those autographs or the name Pearl Jam wasn't important - why did they even make them? why didn't they just release the black and yellow general ones. Of course people bought them for the branding, that was exactly the idea and attraction

My point is that I would've bought one eventually anyway.
I am a fan of HD music whether it's vinyl, SACD, DVD audio, HD FLAC.
I find it weird that people are buying these with no intention of using them at all.
Yes, the PJ autographs and the exclusivity of the LE PONO appeals to me and probably helped me justify throwing down the $400 as an early adapter.
but people focusing strictly on the way the autographs look is weird to me.
to each his own.

After having said that,
I can tell you that it sounds amazing.
Vs., an album that I would say I am "familiar" with, takes on a new life.
granted, I haven't listen to the remasters but it is night and day from the original CD
the quieter passages like the acoustic guitar on Daughter sound like Stone was in the room.
the soundstage is really nice and separated, everything is crisp and you can hear small nuisances that are lost in the compressed formats. pretty much what Neil has been saying. Planning on trying to get the Cincinnati FLAC HD on the player tonight.

I have only had a chance to listen thru my Sennheisers headphones but I plan on hooking it up to my audio system tonight. I wish I had a tube amp unfortunately I only have a tube pre-amp. Anyone know if there is a way to turn off the internal pre-amp and compare the sound thru the tube.
I will try to give another review soon.

MedozK

lolobugg said:

I have only had a chance to listen thru my Sennheisers headphones but I plan on hooking it up to my audio system tonight.

Which Sennheisers are you using. I am contemplating switching from my Bose noise cancelling to a set of Sennheisers.

lolobugg

MedozK said:

lolobugg said:

I have only had a chance to listen thru my Sennheisers headphones but I plan on hooking it up to my audio system tonight.

Which Sennheisers are you using. I am contemplating switching from my Bose noise cancelling to a set of Sennheisers.

Let me check on that and get back to you with the model #
I think I paid about $300 for them if that gives you an idea.
They are studio/closed back for sure. kinda regret not going with the open back now but these are pretty solid for the $

Get_Right

Just wait a year or two.
The prices will come down, there will be more models available and the files will be everywhere.
This is like when I paid $600 for my first CD player and two years later you could get one for $200.
How long until apple has a hi res player?

MedozK

Get_Right said:

Just wait a year or two.
The prices will come down, there will be more models available and the files will be everywhere.
This is like when I paid $600 for my first CD player and two years later you could get one for $200.
How long until apple has a hi res player?

I would think Apple will be close behind. I still think the market is so small, but I hope they do. Competition only leads to better products and prices for the consumer...so I'm all in.

I would buy a $200 Pono today, no problem....but $400, not so much.


and about being an early adopter..back in the late 90s my roommate had a LaserDisc player, had tons of movies and when he moved out, I contemplated getting one...but I had read about this new technology DVD. So I waited and as soon as it came out I bought a $750 Sony DVD player...looking back on it DAMN! what a dumbass.

lolobugg

MedozK said:

Get_Right said:

Just wait a year or two.
The prices will come down, there will be more models available and the files will be everywhere.
This is like when I paid $600 for my first CD player and two years later you could get one for $200.
How long until apple has a hi res player?

I would think Apple will be close behind. I still think the market is so small, but I hope they do. Competition only leads to better products and prices for the consumer...so I'm all in.

I would buy a $200 Pono today, no problem....but $400, not so much.


and about being an early adopter..back in the late 90s my roommate had a LaserDisc player, had tons of movies and when he moved out, I contemplated getting one...but I had read about this new technology DVD. So I waited and as soon as it came out I bought a $750 Sony DVD player...looking back on it DAMN! what a dumbass.

I used to sell electronics in the early 00s.
I remember these guys throwing down 20k for plasma tvs when the life span for those were unknown. crazy shit but someone's gotta do it I guess.

pdalowsky

lolobugg said:

pdalowsky said:

lolobugg said:

Kev - Coat and Keys said:

lolobugg said:

Nice.... can't wait to pick mine up.
You had me cracking up in the other thread.

Thanks Man - I was getting too frustrated by some people. I keep forgetting the music isn't the important thing for everyone. Fortunately it is for a lot of us.

MedozK said:

Hopefully this push towards Hi-res music will also push towards better mastering processes. Making something more loud, and taking away from the overall dynamic range is not good...even if its 24 bit.

Yes, that is it. The more Hi-Res players and users, will lead to more HI-Res being bought and so more will be available. I hope.

I find the PJ collector mentality a little weird. I mean I buy my share of merch but I would never buy a sticker because it has "PJ" on it. I think some people bought these just for the autographs.

and also I am hoping to see HD music get popular and hopefully drive some of these prices down. In some cases they are charging the same as the physical product. SACD, vinyl, etc.

ask yourself if those autographs or the name Pearl Jam wasn't important - why did they even make them? why didn't they just release the black and yellow general ones. Of course people bought them for the branding, that was exactly the idea and attraction

My point is that I would've bought one eventually anyway.
I am a fan of HD music whether it's vinyl, SACD, DVD audio, HD FLAC.
I find it weird that people are buying these with no intention of using them at all.
Yes, the PJ autographs and the exclusivity of the LE PONO appeals to me and probably helped me justify throwing down the $400 as an early adapter.
but people focusing strictly on the way the autographs look is weird to me.
to each his own.

After having said that,
I can tell you that it sounds amazing.
Vs., an album that I would say I am "familiar" with, takes on a new life.
granted, I haven't listen to the remasters but it is night and day from the original CD
the quieter passages like the acoustic guitar on Daughter sound like Stone was in the room.
the soundstage is really nice and separated, everything is crisp and you can hear small nuisances that are lost in the compressed formats. pretty much what Neil has been saying. Planning on trying to get the Cincinnati FLAC HD on the player tonight.

I have only had a chance to listen thru my Sennheisers headphones but I plan on hooking it up to my audio system tonight. I wish I had a tube amp unfortunately I only have a tube pre-amp. Anyone know if there is a way to turn off the internal pre-amp and compare the sound thru the tube.
I will try to give another review soon.

I really don't understand why you would think it weird. Its clearly made as a collectors item, otherwise they wouldn't have ever bothered with the artist series. The signatures were a selling point so of course people bought them for that attribute - otherwise they would have saved $200 and bought the standard version whilst it was on offer at $200.

Some of the artist editions will be kept pristine as a collectors item, much in the way records are (records that most would consider are made to be played), or like a limited edition boxed star wars toy will never get played with.

pdalowsky

like you say

each to his own

vaggar99

it would be interesting if someone conducted a 'Pono Challenge' much like the 'Pepsi Challenge' campaign from back in the day. that would be a pretty good indicator as to whether or not this thing has legs.