Cannot believe what I saw in Seattle today

ldent42

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that there ain't nothing simple about homelessness.

Last-12-Exit

dignin said:

Saying most homeless people are lazy is ignorant.

You're right, it is. Of course that's not what I said.

catefrances

ldent42 said:

I wish I could remember the statistic, but a large percentage of homeless people in the US are veterans.

We saw a vets encampment just outside eugene. I am of the opinion that if you risk your life for your country in the theatre of war then the least the govt can do is house you.

rgambs

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

If u can beg for change then u can say do you want fries with that or paper or plastic. #truth

#truth?? Have I stumbled upon a preteens myface page?
Try getting a job when you don't have an address, clean clothes, and the ability to shower, I bet you find it isn't so simple.

Last-12-Exit

rgambs said:

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

If u can beg for change then u can say do you want fries with that or paper or plastic. #truth

#truth?? Have I stumbled upon a preteens myface page?
Try getting a job when you don't have an address, clean clothes, and the ability to shower, I bet you find it isn't so simple.

I'm not going to go as far as #truth, I honestly don't know what that means, but I will say that it isn't as hard to find one of those jobs if one would swallow his/her pride and accept that McDonald's, burger king, or sonic may be the only place you can work.

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

If u can beg for change then u can say do you want fries with that or paper or plastic. #truth

#truth?? Have I stumbled upon a preteens myface page?
Try getting a job when you don't have an address, clean clothes, and the ability to shower, I bet you find it isn't so simple.

I'm not going to go as far as #truth, I honestly don't know what that means, but I will say that it isn't as hard to find one of those jobs if one would swallow his/her pride and accept that McDonald's, burger king, or sonic may be the only place you can work.

How many people do you honestly think choose homelessness over a fast food job? You reminded me of another employment obstacle (of course not insurmountable) which is online applications. You apply online, and wait for a phone call...to what phone?

Last-12-Exit

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

If u can beg for change then u can say do you want fries with that or paper or plastic. #truth

#truth?? Have I stumbled upon a preteens myface page?
Try getting a job when you don't have an address, clean clothes, and the ability to shower, I bet you find it isn't so simple.

I'm not going to go as far as #truth, I honestly don't know what that means, but I will say that it isn't as hard to find one of those jobs if one would swallow his/her pride and accept that McDonald's, burger king, or sonic may be the only place you can work.

How many people do you honestly think choose homelessness over a fast food job? You reminded me of another employment obstacle (of course not insurmountable) which is online applications. You apply online, and wait for a phone call...to what phone?

I understand your point and sentiment. I've also seen the cell phone sitting next guy sitting in the street with a boot in his lap in Chicago and Charlotte.

josevolution

I hope no one in this thread ever becomes homeless alone desperate sad......

mookieb10

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Saying most homeless people are lazy is ignorant.

You're right, it is. Of course that's not what I said.

There's a large percentage of homeless people who are lazy.

dignin

mookieb10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Saying most homeless people are lazy is ignorant.

You're right, it is. Of course that's not what I said.

There's a large percentage of homeless people who are lazy.

Source?

brianlux

I guess I must be a lazy ignorant motherfucker for having been semi-homeless having been reduced to living in my vehicle for over a year in the mid to late 90's (the details grow foggy in my intentional forgetfulness of those shitty and awful times which had nothing to do with being a "drug addict or boozer") and then living in a wretched dump in the the late 90's before crawling out of that hole and finding my way back. I'm comfortable and own my own modest home now but believe me, shit happens, even to those of us who are (and I am) privileged. Don't get too cocky BIBLEISTEN.

mookieb10

dignin said:

mookieb10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Saying most homeless people are lazy is ignorant.

You're right, it is. Of course that's not what I said.

There's a large percentage of homeless people who are lazy.

Source?

I completely understand that there is this big movement away from stereotyping the homeless or those living long term on government entitlements as lazy people. It helps us not view all homeless people as responsible for their predicament, however, we tend to focus on the outlier of the homeless community, the one who graduated from yale but somehow can't get on his feet. The outlier doesn't represent the majority though. Can I prove that many homeless people are lazy? No. I can't imagine how one would run and empirical study to prove that many are lazy, I've also never seen this disproven through data. So given the lack of data I resort to my own experiences and based on those many experiences, I come to this opinion.

benjs

mookieb10 said:

dignin said:

mookieb10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Saying most homeless people are lazy is ignorant.

You're right, it is. Of course that's not what I said.

There's a large percentage of homeless people who are lazy.

Source?

I completely understand that there is this big movement away from stereotyping the homeless or those living long term on government entitlements as lazy people. It helps us not view all homeless people as responsible for their predicament, however, we tend to focus on the outlier of the homeless community, the one who graduated from yale but somehow can't get on his feet. The outlier doesn't represent the majority though. Can I prove that many homeless people are lazy? No. I can't imagine how one would run and empirical study to prove that many are lazy, I've also never seen this disproven through data. So given the lack of data I resort to my own experiences and based on those many experiences, I come to this opinion.

So... Because you say there's no data to prove this one way or another, and because in your opinion there's no way to quantify this notion, you fall back on your own personal experience. So what are your own experience, are you a representative for homeless people? Do you talk to every one you meet? Do you work at a shelter? Do you roam around the country searching for conversations with homeless people?

I don't know what sample size would convince me that your opinion is worth broadcasting and proposing a generalization based on - but the Annual Homelessness Assessment Report to Congress suggests that in 2012, based on a single-night homelessness study, there were roughly 630,000 homeless people in the States. You would have to interview (and get honest response from) 1,000 people to secure a sample size equal to 1.6% of the homeless population in America then. Since I'm sure you've done this, and somehow you've managed to secure a sample which isn't skewed towards a specific cause of homelessness (based on geography, culture, etc.), you really believe this to be adequate to base such a large number of people's ethics upon?

There's certainly a big movement these days, but I think you're looking with too narrow a scope: it's not a movement against stereotyping the homeless - the movement is in favour of eliminating prejudice and ignorance.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

It would be my hypothesis that most homeless people do not have the support network (family and friends) that many other people have. When things get shitty for most... they can bunk in with mom and dad or their brother or sister until they get back on their feet. If there is nobody to call when times are tough... where does one go?

Once one is out on the streets... getting off them can be difficult for many of the reasons already offered.

There are other factors that contribute to homelessness such as mental illness and drug and alcohol abuse, but people living on the streets ultimately means there is nowhere else to go. People don't exactly choose to be homeless.

brianlux

mookieb10 said:

dignin said:

mookieb10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Saying most homeless people are lazy is ignorant.

You're right, it is. Of course that's not what I said.

There's a large percentage of homeless people who are lazy.

Source?

I completely understand that there is this big movement away from stereotyping the homeless or those living long term on government entitlements as lazy people. It helps us not view all homeless people as responsible for their predicament, however, we tend to focus on the outlier of the homeless community, the one who graduated from yale but somehow can't get on his feet. The outlier doesn't represent the majority though. Can I prove that many homeless people are lazy? No. I can't imagine how one would run and empirical study to prove that many are lazy, I've also never seen this disproven through data. So given the lack of data I resort to my own experiences and based on those many experiences, I come to this opinion.

Lazy or crazy? Come on, you'd have to be crazy to live like a homeless person. And I don't mean "crazy" in a derogatory sense. I mean, look, try living the way a homeless person does. It sucks. Lazy people who do not have serious mental disorders most often work the system to their advantage such that they are housed. I know people who have done this (acquaintances, mostly). They work the system and they live indoors. I'm not even sure I would call these people lazy because I'm not sure what's going on in their head. People who are not high functioning or who have a mental condition (such as vets with PTSD or any number of other conditions) often aren't capable of working the system- you have to be normal to high functioning to do so. Labeling homeless people is both biased, derogatory and ill-informed.

mickeyrat

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

Yeah, I'm sure none of those people are drug addicts or boozers. Some people created those issues for themselves.

I have yet to meet ANYONE who set out to become addicted or and alcoholic. True repeated actions led them to that but still, you seem to suggest some kind of intent.

catefrances

The Akkus said:

mookeywrench said:

The Akkus said:

Gonna get worse and worse as more jobs are phased out by robots. How many jobs do ya think have been lost due to self-checkouts at grocery stores?

Like 4 or so...

Yeah, you are probably about right,

So heres a real life scenario for you... at my local variety store they have 8 self serve checkouts. The store is open for 12 hours so theres 2 shifts equally 16 jobs. Now we all know how much companies love to employ casual staff so lets add another 8 to that job estimate and weve got 24 jobs lost to self serve registers. I guess we can make allowances for busy v quiet times during the trading day plus the fact that they'll have 1 real life human manning the only open non self serve register(and we all know there's only the 1 cause the store hopes people will get jack of waiting. in line to be served and give up and use the self serve) and the 4 jobs you 2 think are lost due to automation looks a little weak.

benjs

catefrances said:

The Akkus said:

mookeywrench said:

The Akkus said:

Gonna get worse and worse as more jobs are phased out by robots. How many jobs do ya think have been lost due to self-checkouts at grocery stores?

Like 4 or so...

Yeah, you are probably about right,

So heres a real life scenario for you... at my local variety store they have 8 self serve checkouts. The store is open for 12 hours so theres 2 shifts equally 16 jobs. Now we all know how much companies love to employ casual staff so lets add another 8 to that job estimate and weve got 24 jobs lost to self serve registers. I guess we can make allowances for busy v quiet times during the trading day plus the fact that they'll have 1 real life human manning the only open non self serve register(and we all know there's only the 1 cause the store hopes people will get jack of waiting. in line to be served and give up and use the self serve) and the 4 jobs you 2 think are lost due to automation looks a little weak.

I'm not sure this argument has any place in this thread unless we can correlate a boost in homelessness with the beginning of the industrial era, at least fifty years ago. To say that the era of automation is just beginning now is just not true. The intelligence of the automation may be rapidly progressing, but that's it. Frankly it's a good thing in my books that those of us doing more than menial tasks should have to react to potentially becoming redundant the way those just following orders for a job have had to for a long time now. The smartest or most skilled people in the room have been permitted to continue their day to day lives unaffected for too long while the struggle has affected the poorest.

mookeywrench

catefrances said:

The Akkus said:

mookeywrench said:

The Akkus said:

Gonna get worse and worse as more jobs are phased out by robots. How many jobs do ya think have been lost due to self-checkouts at grocery stores?

Like 4 or so...

Yeah, you are probably about right,

So heres a real life scenario for you... at my local variety store they have 8 self serve checkouts. The store is open for 12 hours so theres 2 shifts equally 16 jobs. Now we all know how much companies love to employ casual staff so lets add another 8 to that job estimate and weve got 24 jobs lost to self serve registers. I guess we can make allowances for busy v quiet times during the trading day plus the fact that they'll have 1 real life human manning the only open non self serve register(and we all know there's only the 1 cause the store hopes people will get jack of waiting. in line to be served and give up and use the self serve) and the 4 jobs you 2 think are lost due to automation looks a little weak.

Way too many biased estimates and assumptions to be considered a 'real life scenario'

catefrances

mookeywrench said:

catefrances said:

The Akkus said:

mookeywrench said:

The Akkus said:

Gonna get worse and worse as more jobs are phased out by robots. How many jobs do ya think have been lost due to self-checkouts at grocery stores?

Like 4 or so...

Yeah, you are probably about right,

So heres a real life scenario for you... at my local variety store they have 8 self serve checkouts. The store is open for 12 hours so theres 2 shifts equally 16 jobs. Now we all know how much companies love to employ casual staff so lets add another 8 to that job estimate and weve got 24 jobs lost to self serve registers. I guess we can make allowances for busy v quiet times during the trading day plus the fact that they'll have 1 real life human manning the only open non self serve register(and we all know there's only the 1 cause the store hopes people will get jack of waiting. in line to be served and give up and use the self serve) and the 4 jobs you 2 think are lost due to automation looks a little weak.

Way too many biased estimates and assumptions to be considered a 'real life scenario'

Tbh only the first couple of sentences and half the 3rd were real life