I Just Canceled My Free Obamacare ...

catefrances

I believe a country is only as strong as its people. If a govt isnt willing enough to look after the health of those upon whose backbone a country gains and retains its strength then what the fuck good are they? You can have the mightiest army in the world but if the people are weak then that army is useless and its only a matter of time before youve got no country worth defending. Disenfranchisement is not a very smart govt policy imo.

rgambs

lolobugg said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Free healthcare is NOT a human right. Absurd.

it is not free....
it is paid for by taxes
for all the stupid shit my taxes go to-
I would rather it go to this than to some fucking bombs or missiles.

Fucking exactly!

rgambs

Drifting,
I assume that you stand by your principles. So if (god forbid) ou get hit by a car then you want the emergency personnel to leave you on the sidewalk to die, since you don't have insurance or the money to pay for your med flight and tens of thousands in life saving surgery. Am I correct these are your wishes or is it just big talk?

oftenreading

Last-12-Exit said:

oftenreading said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

The problem here is the government forcing people to have it. The government should not be mandating health insurance. The same people telling us that we have to have health insurance are the same people that can't fix the gun problem in this country.

The saddest part is that people think that it is more important to have an arsenal in their basements rather than obtain affordable insurance.

They COULD fix the gun problem. YOU won't elect the people that can fix it.

Do you know my voting record over the past 10 years?

Wow. I was not aware that 100% of the US population has healthcare since 2010. Do you research this? Because I know for a fact that is not the case.

Did you see 100% quoted in Gern's post? I didn't. Anyone see 100%? Anyone? Bueller?

No, but the assumption was made that I don't research my posts after I said that everybody would not get insurance even after Obamas threat of penalty.

I'm sure gern appreciates you sticking up for him.

Oh yeah, me and gern are tight. I enjoyed your nicely subtle suggestion that gern can't make his own (her own?? who knows) arguments - very smooth.

But seriously, are you trying to suggest that other posters can't jump into this discussion? This is a private fight?

And in fact you did not say that " everybody would not get insurance even after Obamas threat of penalty". You said "doesn't mean people are getting it". It appears people are, just not everybody, at least not at this point.

Gern Blansten

I believe a country is only as strong as its people. If a govt isnt willing enough to look after the health of those upon whose backbone a country gains and retains its strength then what the fuck good are they? You can have the mightiest army in the world but if the people are weak then that army is useless and its only a matter of time before youve got no country worth defending. Disenfranchisement is not a very smart govt policy imo.

Agreed...our time on this rock is minimal. Let's take care of each other. If you believe in some outside force where you live in eternity that's fine but do you really want an "every man for himself" mantra in eternity? Give me a fucking break.

edit: not sure what the deal is with the quotes but I'm too messed up to fix it...so fug it

Gern Blansten

rgambs said:

Drifting,
I assume that you stand by your principles. So if (god forbid) ou get hit by a car then you want the emergency personnel to leave you on the sidewalk to die, since you don't have insurance or the money to pay for your med flight and tens of thousands in life saving surgery. Am I correct these are your wishes or is it just big talk?

Exactly...as soon as you preach a "health care isn't a right" slogan you surely can't expect anyone to pick your ass up off the sidewalk. Right? We should all just walk by and let you rot...and it's the liberals that are crazy?

callen

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:

lolobugg said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Free healthcare is NOT a human right. Absurd.

it is not free....
it is paid for by taxes
for all the stupid shit my taxes go to-
I would rather it go to this than to some fucking bombs or missiles.

fk the poor let's spread some freedom.

Last-12-Exit said:

The problem here is the government forcing people to have it. The government should not be mandating health insurance. The same people telling us that we have to have health insurance are the same people that can't fix the gun problem in this country.

but I'm paying for others emergency room visits and be great if the uninsured would pick up their share.

We should have affordable healthcare. Feel we should spend the resources.

Hope AHC is refined rather than scrapped.

We are still paying for it. Just because Obama is forcing people to get insurance under the threat of penalty doesn't mean people are getting it.

Another problem is the cost of health care. What these doctors and hospitals charge for basic check ups and procedures are insane.

True we are still paying. But think and it's been documented that with preventative care, total costs would go down as problems are addressed prior to someone going to emergency room before illness gets critical. As no one can be refused care in emergency room think everyone should pay. Even if making minimum, couple bucks per paycheck should go to healthcare Also with AHC the young will be forced to add to pool to help offset as their costs will be offset when they are old.

It's not perfect and some, as myself, will pay more than the poor but feel better for me overall.

Agree healthcare costs are a big issue and need to be addressed. So thinking more in system the lower per capita costs. Don't though want to affect dr's and nurses salaries. They should get above average wages.

I do think its fked for the lazy to not work and get my money /healthcare and that is a problem.

Also acknowledge when govt gets involved lotsa waste and corruption. It can be done though.

The biggest benefit for me personally with AHC is I have the option to leave my big employer and get decent coverage and not forced to be a corporate whore. Freedom.

Gern Blansten

https://www.healthcare.gov/income-and-household-information/income/

What if my income turns out to be different from what I estimate?
When you apply for coverage in the Marketplace, it's important to double-check the information you put on your application. If the amount of expected income you report turns out to be inaccurate, you may not get the right amount of premium tax credit.

If you wind up making more money than you estimated on your application, you could have to pay back some or all of the premium tax credit you’ve received. You would make this payment with your next tax return.

If you wind up making less money than you estimated on your application, you could qualify for a higher tax credit. You would get this money refunded on your next tax return.

Seems pretty simple to me....certainly nothing to freak out about

callen

Curious to see how voters that have enrolled and now have coverage will react to candidate who campaigns to repeal AHC . Wonder of the numbers, especially in swing states for pres election.

If I was dem this would be my main talking point.

Also wonder if this time republicans will offer an alternative.

Gern Blansten

I love all the repeal talk....as if Obama is going to repeal his own bill.

so laughable I can't laugh

callen

Gern Blansten said:

I love all the repeal talk....as if Obama is going to repeal his own bill.

so laughable I can't laugh

Was thinking ahead to next pres election. But yes there's already banter by right to repeal. Be interesting.

lolobugg

Good stuff, guys.

know1

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

Last-12-Exit

know1 said:

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

I agree. The only reason there isn't laws about being fat and forced excersie is that some lobbyist is making money from someone being fat and sitting on his ass.

Gern Blansten

know1 said:

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

There are many countries with universal care. Just look at how their systems work.

rgambs

know1 said:

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

Is it the governments responsibility to look after our safety and sovereignty? Why not health too? It only makes us stronger as a country. Would you really prefer to return to a time when there was no safety net? What kind of ideal is that, to leave a man in the gutter when you have the means to lift him out, because of some misguided masculine principle of self-reliance? I prefer an ideal of cooperation and compassion myself.

Bentleyspop

Last-12-Exit said:

know1 said:

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

I agree. The only reason there isn't laws about being fat and forced excersie is that some lobbyist is making money from someone being fat and sitting on his ass.

Then that lobbyist is doing quite well since 60% of Americans are fat and spend most days sitting on their ass.

rgambs

I would like to see the OP come back and chime in!

catefrances

rgambs said:

know1 said:

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

Is it the governments responsibility to look after our safety and sovereignty? Why not health too? It only makes us stronger as a country. Would you really prefer to return to a time when there was no safety net? What kind of ideal is that, to leave a man in the gutter when you have the means to lift him out, because of some misguided masculine principle of self-reliance? I prefer an ideal of cooperation and compassion myself.

Agreed... humans are a social animal so why wouldnt we look after the WHOLE of society?

ed243421

catefrances said:

rgambs said:

know1 said:

Prior to the great depression, the government wouldn't even help you out financially if a natural disaster destroyed everything you owned. Today there would be complete outrage if they didn't rebuild your life for you. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to look after our health. If it were, I'd expect laws against being fat and forced exercise.

Is it the governments responsibility to look after our safety and sovereignty? Why not health too? It only makes us stronger as a country. Would you really prefer to return to a time when there was no safety net? What kind of ideal is that, to leave a man in the gutter when you have the means to lift him out, because of some misguided masculine principle of self-reliance? I prefer an ideal of cooperation and compassion myself.

Agreed... humans are a social animal so why wouldnt we look after the WHOLE of society?

Because most people placed money ahead of society on their priority list many years ago

know1

Providing health insurance does not equal taking care of the health of its citizens.

The fact that so many think it does is the bulk of the problem.

oftenreading

know1 said:

Providing health insurance does not equal taking care of the health of its citizens.

The fact that so many think it does is the bulk of the problem.

You are, of course, correct, but making health insurance essentially unavailable to a large swath of the population, in a system that requires it (or a huge amount of cash) to access medical services, is a problem.

Gern Blansten

oftenreading said:

know1 said:

Providing health insurance does not equal taking care of the health of its citizens.

The fact that so many think it does is the bulk of the problem.

You are, of course, correct, but making health insurance essentially unavailable to a large swath of the population, in a system that requires it (or a huge amount of cash) to access medical services, is a problem.

unavailable how? The ACA forbids pre-existing conditions...subsidies kick in to cover low income households.

oftenreading

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. I was arguing in favour of universal health insurance, not against it. My post referred to the fact that, absent the AC or something like it, the US seems to have a system in which purchasing health insurance is prohibitively expensive for low-income households, thus "essentially unavailable" for much of the population.

know1

oftenreading said:

know1 said:

Providing health insurance does not equal taking care of the health of its citizens.

The fact that so many think it does is the bulk of the problem.

You are, of course, correct, but making health insurance essentially unavailable to a large swath of the population, in a system that requires it (or a huge amount of cash) to access medical services, is a problem.

Health insurance is the CAUSE of high healthcare costs (or the major cause anyway).

Gern Blansten

Totally agree. While it employs probably hundreds of thousands of people you have to stand in amazement of the level of bureaucracy that exists between providers and patients.

oftenreading

know1 said:

oftenreading said:

know1 said:

Providing health insurance does not equal taking care of the health of its citizens.

The fact that so many think it does is the bulk of the problem.

You are, of course, correct, but making health insurance essentially unavailable to a large swath of the population, in a system that requires it (or a huge amount of cash) to access medical services, is a problem.

Health insurance is the CAUSE of high healthcare costs (or the major cause anyway).

Well, done badly it is, yes. The US of course doesn't have universal health insurance, it has a patchwork of private for profit and public programs that is horribly inefficient and drives up costs tremendously. A single payer system is more efficient.

hedonist

Patchwork is a great way to put it. Kind of like a band-aid.

callen

But it's a start which is a huge deal. I hope it is allowed to be refined.

lukin2006

hedonist said:

To our Canadian friends - Is there any substance to claims I've heard that some needed procedures are delayed for a long while until approved?

Yes ... elective surgery has long waiting list. Finding a Dr. for many can be difficult. Medically necessary procedure's are usually treated in a timely fashion.

However my mother broke her hip last January and she waited in the ER ,,, no food or water for about 36 hours before the surgery was performed.

Any country looking to Canada for advice and solutions to their healthcare solutions is just crazy, I'd look at a European country before us ... and they continually delist more and more procedures.