Now back to Israel as usual
Comments
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Fair enough, but let's be honest, I've chosen sides, and I'm assuming you have too (though I like to hope we're both capable of responding to rationality and not our own internal beliefs, which are only a byproduct of knowledge anyways).JohnnieBeBlue said:
You make a good point. I don't mean to completely write it off as propaganda. I'm just saying that the author clearly has chosen sides and has an agenda. Some of the article may be true, but I would be highly skeptical considering some of the inflammatory language and accusations thrown around.benjs said:
How do you learn anything if you're only willing to accept facts from those without bias? Essentially, you're left with articles written by robots. And depending on who programmed the robot, those might not be fair game either. Seems to me better to read from multiple biases than none.JohnnieBeBlue said:
Propaganda posing as a news article. The author almost gets away with it until:badbrains said:I just googled Palestinian family evicted and shit, too many fucken stories to list. But I found this article about what we're talking about. It's a lot more complicated then I first thought:
http://972mag.com/palestinian-family-under-threat-of-eviction-by-settlers/104674/
"Last Monday, Israeli and Palestinian activists went to the Sub Laban home in order to prevent a possible eviction. Due to our presence, the police agreed to wait and see whether the family’s lawyer will be able to get the court to delay the eviction."
So, no, not an unbiased reporter. Actually, a self described "activist."
How can you write this off as propaganda without knowing whether the document is factually accurate or not?
As far as inflammatory language and accusations - they come with passion. We're all likely to not see it in the articles that we share the passion for, and to see it exaggerated in the articles we don't. It's our job to attempt to internally bias correct for both, and not merely discount or believe based on the pro- or anti- affiliation.Post edited by benjs on'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Either way. Bibi is just a self serving sack of shit politician. No different than most. Except most dont have a boot on an entire populations neck._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Well what do you know...
http://news.yahoo.com/palestinian-rockets-killed-gaza-civilians-during-war-amnesty-094310033.html
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"Amnesty said rocket attacks had killed six civilians in Israel, including a child, but that other rockets aimed at the Jewish state had fallen short and killed at least 13 civilians, 11 of them children, in Gaza."BS44325 said:
nice try. the friendly fire was accidental.
how many palestinian civilians were intentionally gunned down by the idf again?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 said:
"Amnesty said rocket attacks had killed six civilians in Israel, including a child, but that other rockets aimed at the Jewish state had fallen short and killed at least 13 civilians, 11 of them children, in Gaza."BS44325 said:
nice try. the friendly fire was accidental.
how many palestinian civilians were intentionally gunned down by the idf again?
So you're okay with the friendly fire?gimmesometruth27 said:
"Amnesty said rocket attacks had killed six civilians in Israel, including a child, but that other rockets aimed at the Jewish state had fallen short and killed at least 13 civilians, 11 of them children, in Gaza."BS44325 said:
nice try. the friendly fire was accidental.
how many palestinian civilians were intentionally gunned down by the idf again?0 -
no there shouldn't have been any fire at all.Bentleyspop said:gimmesometruth27 said:
"Amnesty said rocket attacks had killed six civilians in Israel, including a child, but that other rockets aimed at the Jewish state had fallen short and killed at least 13 civilians, 11 of them children, in Gaza."BS44325 said:
nice try. the friendly fire was accidental.
how many palestinian civilians were intentionally gunned down by the idf again?
So you're okay with the friendly fire?gimmesometruth27 said:
"Amnesty said rocket attacks had killed six civilians in Israel, including a child, but that other rockets aimed at the Jewish state had fallen short and killed at least 13 civilians, 11 of them children, in Gaza."BS44325 said:
nice try. the friendly fire was accidental.
how many palestinian civilians were intentionally gunned down by the idf again?
i just find it funny that they are keeping score.
but when has friendly fire ever been called a war crime?
at any rate, the six killed in israel is far less than what the idf has killed."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Oh god, you're getting more comical with desperation. So they killed 13 by friendly fire and that gets you to say something? Where were you when I posted that video of the market getting hit with rockets from Israeli Apache helicopters, and when everyone came to help, they fired another rocket for good measure. Where were you? Oh ya, you were cheering them on.BS44325 said:0 -
Where was I? I was arguing that Hamas rocket attacks would only bring more death to Palestinians and anyone who cares about Palestinians should be seeking the end of Hamas. Hamas used their people as pawns and it only brought misery.badbrains said:
Oh god, you're getting more comical with desperation. So they killed 13 by friendly fire and that gets you to say something? Where were you when I posted that video of the market getting hit with rockets from Israeli Apache helicopters, and when everyone came to help, they fired another rocket for good measure. Where were you? Oh ya, you were cheering them on.BS44325 said:0 -
We're going in circles here. I don't see why Hamas can't be wrong and Israel also be wrong, but Hamas' existence and desperation in representation of the people of Gaza be a byproduct of Israel's wrong actions over years. Seems to me that's clearly what's going on.BS44325 said:
Where was I? I was arguing that Hamas rocket attacks would only bring more death to Palestinians and anyone who cares about Palestinians should be seeking the end of Hamas. Hamas used their people as pawns and it only brought misery.badbrains said:
Oh god, you're getting more comical with desperation. So they killed 13 by friendly fire and that gets you to say something? Where were you when I posted that video of the market getting hit with rockets from Israeli Apache helicopters, and when everyone came to help, they fired another rocket for good measure. Where were you? Oh ya, you were cheering them on.BS44325 said:
The UN-defined illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories precedes Hamas' existence. The illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories will likely outlive Hamas' existence. Because the voice of the resistance of the Palestinian territories has been reduced to hodgepodge weaponry, that will be the voice of the next regime which claims to be a path to liberation. Israel will claim this is inappropriate, BS will claim it's inappropriate, the world will claim it's inappropriate, the status quo will remain.
More circles of inactivity and injustice, and no clear way where the cycle can be broken.
And more of this stupid fucking conversation that serves literally no one with a humanitarian bone in his or her body. Without admission of guilt, there can be no alliances, only debate between enemies. When two parties still call each other enemies, there can be no trust, and therefore no peace. Both parties are guilty of this lack of accountability: only one is guilty of lack of accountability for being the cause of the necessity for the other.
Think the guy who says "shoot your friend or I'll shoot you". When the oppressed person shoots his friend, sure he's guilty - but who's responsible?'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Again, blame the victims. I'm gonna come out and ask you straight up, are you a Zionist? I asked u before what religion you are and u danced around it to the point of calling me an anti-Semite. Are you man enough to admit you're a Zionist? Cuz as someone has said already, you clearly have Zionist beliefs.BS44325 said:
Where was I? I was arguing that Hamas rocket attacks would only bring more death to Palestinians and anyone who cares about Palestinians should be seeking the end of Hamas. Hamas used their people as pawns and it only brought misery.badbrains said:
Oh god, you're getting more comical with desperation. So they killed 13 by friendly fire and that gets you to say something? Where were you when I posted that video of the market getting hit with rockets from Israeli Apache helicopters, and when everyone came to help, they fired another rocket for good measure. Where were you? Oh ya, you were cheering them on.BS44325 said:
Edit-and the reason I ask isn't so I can put a fucken yellow star on your sleeve, it's so I can fucken better understand why someone like you gives zero blame on the Israeli regime and shits on anything Palestinian. I'm also beginning to wonder if it was you who flagged my pics from the slaughter of the children in Palestine to have them removed.Post edited by badbrains on0 -
Interesting piece regarding Israel's ruling party....
The Hateful Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State
Since virtually every comment on Hamas in American media includes the assertion that the group’s Charter rejects Israel’s right to exist, it’s worth noting the following from the Likud Platform of 1999:
a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”
b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel.
The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”
c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”
d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.
(continued in link)0 -
Nart, to be fair, you know that I'm a Zionist, right?badbrains said:
Again, blame the victims. I'm gonna come out and ask you straight up, are you a Zionist? I asked u before what religion you are and u danced around it to the point of calling me an anti-Semite. Are you man enough to admit you're a Zionist? Cuz as someone has said already, you clearly have Zionist beliefs.BS44325 said:
Where was I? I was arguing that Hamas rocket attacks would only bring more death to Palestinians and anyone who cares about Palestinians should be seeking the end of Hamas. Hamas used their people as pawns and it only brought misery.badbrains said:
Oh god, you're getting more comical with desperation. So they killed 13 by friendly fire and that gets you to say something? Where were you when I posted that video of the market getting hit with rockets from Israeli Apache helicopters, and when everyone came to help, they fired another rocket for good measure. Where were you? Oh ya, you were cheering them on.BS44325 said:
Edit-and the reason I ask isn't so I can put a fucken yellow star on your sleeve, it's so I can fucken better understand why someone like you gives zero blame on the Israeli regime and shits on anything Palestinian. I'm also beginning to wonder if it was you who flagged my pics from the slaughter of the children in Palestine to have them removed.
I just find the state of Israel to be a bastardization of Zionist, Jewish, and humanitarian ideals, all of which would find it morally apprehensible to subjugate an indigenous population as a byproduct of creating a Jewish state.Post edited by benjs on'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
1) Hamas are not the victims. The unfortunate souls subjugated by them in Gaza arebadbrains said:
Again, blame the victims. I'm gonna come out and ask you straight up, are you a Zionist? I asked u before what religion you are and u danced around it to the point of calling me an anti-Semite. Are you man enough to admit you're a Zionist? Cuz as someone has said already, you clearly have Zionist beliefs.BS44325 said:
Where was I? I was arguing that Hamas rocket attacks would only bring more death to Palestinians and anyone who cares about Palestinians should be seeking the end of Hamas. Hamas used their people as pawns and it only brought misery.badbrains said:
Oh god, you're getting more comical with desperation. So they killed 13 by friendly fire and that gets you to say something? Where were you when I posted that video of the market getting hit with rockets from Israeli Apache helicopters, and when everyone came to help, they fired another rocket for good measure. Where were you? Oh ya, you were cheering them on.BS44325 said:
Edit-and the reason I ask isn't so I can put a fucken yellow star on your sleeve, it's so I can fucken better understand why someone like you gives zero blame on the Israeli regime and shits on anything Palestinian. I'm also beginning to wonder if it was you who flagged my pics from the slaughter of the children in Palestine to have them removed.
2) I believe Israel can and should exist as a jewish state and that a Hamas-free Palestinian state can and should exist as well
3) If this makes me a zionist so be it...it is guys like you who try to turn that into a dirty word
4) I didn't flag your pics
5) You swear too much0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Jewish people not supposed to have a land until Jesus returns? Wasn't that what god says in their beliefs? Serious question.
Ben, to me you're a human being. And a smart one at that. I don't really look at you as a Jew or Zionist. You have to much compassion for people to be any religion my friend. Lol0 -
Jews don't believe in Jesus, so not sure what you meant by that. If you meant the Jewish messiah, that view about not being allowed to return is only held by a fringe chasidic sect. In reality, there have always been Jews living there for hundreds, even thousands of years.badbrains said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Jewish people not supposed to have a land until Jesus returns? Wasn't that what god says in their beliefs? Serious question.
Ben, to me you're a human being. And a smart one at that. I don't really look at you as a Jew or Zionist. You have to much compassion for people to be any religion my friend. Lol0 -
Ever since they exterminated the native population lolJohnnieBeBlue said:
Jews don't believe in Jesus, so not sure what you meant by that. If you meant the Jewish messiah, that view about not being allowed to return is only held by a fringe chasidic sect. In reality, there have always been Jews living there for hundreds, even thousands of years.badbrains said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Jewish people not supposed to have a land until Jesus returns? Wasn't that what god says in their beliefs? Serious question.
Ben, to me you're a human being. And a smart one at that. I don't really look at you as a Jew or Zionist. You have to much compassion for people to be any religion my friend. Lol
That's a discussion for another thread and another day!Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Not exactly. You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.rgambs said:
Ever since they exterminated the native population lolJohnnieBeBlue said:
Jews don't believe in Jesus, so not sure what you meant by that. If you meant the Jewish messiah, that view about not being allowed to return is only held by a fringe chasidic sect. In reality, there have always been Jews living there for hundreds, even thousands of years.badbrains said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Jewish people not supposed to have a land until Jesus returns? Wasn't that what god says in their beliefs? Serious question.
Ben, to me you're a human being. And a smart one at that. I don't really look at you as a Jew or Zionist. You have to much compassion for people to be any religion my friend. Lol
That's a discussion for another thread and another day!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel0 -
It was a joke, hence the "lol"JohnnieBeBlue said:
Not exactly. You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.rgambs said:
Ever since they exterminated the native population lolJohnnieBeBlue said:
Jews don't believe in Jesus, so not sure what you meant by that. If you meant the Jewish messiah, that view about not being allowed to return is only held by a fringe chasidic sect. In reality, there have always been Jews living there for hundreds, even thousands of years.badbrains said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Jewish people not supposed to have a land until Jesus returns? Wasn't that what god says in their beliefs? Serious question.
Ben, to me you're a human being. And a smart one at that. I don't really look at you as a Jew or Zionist. You have to much compassion for people to be any religion my friend. Lol
That's a discussion for another thread and another day!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel
Not meant to be factually accurate, although "exterminated the native population" isn't far off.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
"Exterminated the native population" isn't far off? The Palestinian population has grown year over year. How is this extermination?rgambs said:
It was a joke, hence the "lol"JohnnieBeBlue said:
Not exactly. You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.rgambs said:
Ever since they exterminated the native population lolJohnnieBeBlue said:
Jews don't believe in Jesus, so not sure what you meant by that. If you meant the Jewish messiah, that view about not being allowed to return is only held by a fringe chasidic sect. In reality, there have always been Jews living there for hundreds, even thousands of years.badbrains said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Jewish people not supposed to have a land until Jesus returns? Wasn't that what god says in their beliefs? Serious question.
Ben, to me you're a human being. And a smart one at that. I don't really look at you as a Jew or Zionist. You have to much compassion for people to be any religion my friend. Lol
That's a discussion for another thread and another day!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel
Not meant to be factually accurate, although "exterminated the native population" isn't far off.0
This discussion has been closed.
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