Reza Aslan On Muslim violence myths

13

Comments

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS. I in no way think that the majority of muslims are radical and terrorists but it isn't a "myth". that Muslims are the ones responsible for most of the terror attacks over the last 2 decades. They are the ones blowing people up, cutting their heads off on camera for people to watch, killing children and let's hope you aren't a muslim female who is raped and then killed for your "sin" of shaming the family.

    I don't care if there is 1 radical Islamist or 3 million. Something has to be done about this "myth" of violence happening right now.




    And WHOS been responsible for causing ALL these wars in the past 15 years? Please do tell. And all those peaceful Muslims ARE doing things. Your lame ass media won't show you this. Why u ask? Because it goes AGAINST their agenda. I'm done responding. Gonna think of another song to request since my party thread got closed.
  • Staceb10Staceb10 Posts: 675
    Maybe check out the shooting in Canada thread...see how that ""myth" of violence is going today.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Staceb10 said:

    Maybe check out the shooting in Canada thread...see how that ""myth" of violence is going today.

    Fear is your ONLY god.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS. I in no way think that the majority of muslims are radical and terrorists but it isn't a "myth". that Muslims are the ones responsible for most of the terror attacks over the last 2 decades. They are the ones blowing people up, cutting their heads off on camera for people to watch, killing children and let's hope you aren't a muslim female who is raped and then killed for your "sin" of shaming the family.

    I don't care if there is 1 radical Islamist or 3 million. Something has to be done about this "myth" of violence happening right now.




    You've heard from several Muslims on here that the ISIS Islam is not their version of Islam. This might be because their lives do not involve beheading, blowing people up,killing children, or rape. To these peaceful Muslims, ISIS is likely as foreign an entity as it is to you or me. So if you want to place blame for inaction on the 'moderates' - don't just blame Muslims: blame all moderates - and blame yourself. Or better yet, do something about it. That's what I do, because I'm the only person I can control. If we put half the energy into educating ourselves on foreign policies from our governments (which can lead to better voting, educated protesting, positive action) as we do finding reasons to generalize, embellish, stereotype about massive groups of people (which seems to only lead to negative action), I think the political and cultural landscapes would look incredibly differently today.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    benjs said:

    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS. I in no way think that the majority of muslims are radical and terrorists but it isn't a "myth". that Muslims are the ones responsible for most of the terror attacks over the last 2 decades. They are the ones blowing people up, cutting their heads off on camera for people to watch, killing children and let's hope you aren't a muslim female who is raped and then killed for your "sin" of shaming the family.

    I don't care if there is 1 radical Islamist or 3 million. Something has to be done about this "myth" of violence happening right now.




    You've heard from several Muslims on here that the ISIS Islam is not their version of Islam. This might be because their lives do not involve beheading, blowing people up,killing children, or rape. To these peaceful Muslims, ISIS is likely as foreign an entity as it is to you or me. So if you want to place blame for inaction on the 'moderates' - don't just blame Muslims: blame all moderates - and blame yourself. Or better yet, do something about it. That's what I do, because I'm the only person I can control. If we put half the energy into educating ourselves on foreign policies from our governments (which can lead to better voting, educated protesting, positive action) as we do finding reasons to generalize, embellish, stereotype about massive groups of people (which seems to only lead to negative action), I think the political and cultural landscapes would look incredibly differently today.
    And that's my Jewish brother standing up for us peaceful Muslims. Well, he's Jewish in name as I'm Muslim in name! =)) What's up Ben? How goes my friend?!?!
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    badbrains said:

    benjs said:

    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS. I in no way think that the majority of muslims are radical and terrorists but it isn't a "myth". that Muslims are the ones responsible for most of the terror attacks over the last 2 decades. They are the ones blowing people up, cutting their heads off on camera for people to watch, killing children and let's hope you aren't a muslim female who is raped and then killed for your "sin" of shaming the family.

    I don't care if there is 1 radical Islamist or 3 million. Something has to be done about this "myth" of violence happening right now.




    You've heard from several Muslims on here that the ISIS Islam is not their version of Islam. This might be because their lives do not involve beheading, blowing people up,killing children, or rape. To these peaceful Muslims, ISIS is likely as foreign an entity as it is to you or me. So if you want to place blame for inaction on the 'moderates' - don't just blame Muslims: blame all moderates - and blame yourself. Or better yet, do something about it. That's what I do, because I'm the only person I can control. If we put half the energy into educating ourselves on foreign policies from our governments (which can lead to better voting, educated protesting, positive action) as we do finding reasons to generalize, embellish, stereotype about massive groups of people (which seems to only lead to negative action), I think the political and cultural landscapes would look incredibly differently today.
    And that's my Jewish brother standing up for us peaceful Muslims. Well, he's Jewish in name as I'm Muslim in name! =)) What's up Ben? How goes my friend?!?!
    Eh, it goes. Hopefully things feel better on your end
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • PingfahPingfah Posts: 350
    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS.

    This is one of the most breathtakingly naive statements I have read on this board. IS are mainly killing other Muslims who aren't quite the right flavour of Muslim for them, if you think these people are just sitting about waiting to be decapitated, then I have a bridge I want to sell you.

    Seriously, pull your head out, and take a look at what is actually going on in these places, but I suppose that would involve seeking out information that contradicts your blinkered world view. Not something people like you are keen on, I know. Many peaceful Muslims are being killed because they refuse to bow down and convert for these nutters, while you sit there in your comfy chair pontificating this claptrap, thousands of peaceful Muslims are dying and fighting for their beliefs everyday.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Pingfah said:

    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS.

    This is one of the most breathtakingly naive statements I have read on this board. IS are mainly killing other Muslims who aren't quite the right flavour of Muslim for them, if you think these people are just sitting about waiting to be decapitated, then I have a bridge I want to sell you.

    Seriously, pull your head out, and take a look at what is actually going on in these places, but I suppose that would involve seeking out information that contradicts your blinkered world view. Not something people like you are keen on, I know. Many peaceful Muslims are being killed because they refuse to bow down and convert for these nutters, while you sit there in your comfy chair pontificating this claptrap, thousands of peaceful Muslims are dying and fighting for their beliefs everyday.
    Thank YOU pingfah. Amen brother.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    Staceb10 said:

    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    Myth of Muslim violence? Not a myth when the masses embrace it. I used to think radical Islam was minority but not anymore.

    Masses? As in the majority? Where do you get this information? I don't think even Faux News goes that far. Maybe some of the far right pundits but they're just entertainers. Links? References? (Sorry, you're not going to find any that are worth a thought, damn or straw.)



    Why do liberals act like conservatives only watch Fox News? That isn't the case and you guys should really start using a better argument. Masses wasn't a literal comment but when there are over 30k muslims in ISIS.. that's not counting the Al Qaeda faction of terrorists.. or Hamas.. then that is more than just a few Islamic radicals. I do understand that Muslims aren't inherently violent but people can't keep acting like this is some small group of crazy people.
    I don't go by "liberal" or "conservative". I'm just a guy looking for a straight answer. If you say "masses" I take it to mean you mean masses. The masses of Muslims are not blood thirsty radical killers. OK?

    OK.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    Myth of Muslim violence? Not a myth when the masses embrace it. I used to think radical Islam was minority but not anymore.

    Masses? As in the majority? Where do you get this information? I don't think even Faux News goes that far. Maybe some of the far right pundits but they're just entertainers. Links? References? (Sorry, you're not going to find any that are worth a thought, damn or straw.)



    Why do liberals act like conservatives only watch Fox News? That isn't the case and you guys should really start using a better argument. Masses wasn't a literal comment but when there are over 30k muslims in ISIS.. that's not counting the Al Qaeda faction of terrorists.. or Hamas.. then that is more than just a few Islamic radicals. I do understand that Muslims aren't inherently violent but people can't keep acting like this is some small group of crazy people.
    I don't go by "liberal" or "conservative". I'm just a guy looking for a straight answer. If you say "masses" I take it to mean you mean masses. The masses of Muslims are not blood thirsty radical killers. OK?

    OK.

    Fuck radical Islam! This coming FROM a Muslim.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    badbrains said:

    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    Myth of Muslim violence? Not a myth when the masses embrace it. I used to think radical Islam was minority but not anymore.

    Masses? As in the majority? Where do you get this information? I don't think even Faux News goes that far. Maybe some of the far right pundits but they're just entertainers. Links? References? (Sorry, you're not going to find any that are worth a thought, damn or straw.)



    Why do liberals act like conservatives only watch Fox News? That isn't the case and you guys should really start using a better argument. Masses wasn't a literal comment but when there are over 30k muslims in ISIS.. that's not counting the Al Qaeda faction of terrorists.. or Hamas.. then that is more than just a few Islamic radicals. I do understand that Muslims aren't inherently violent but people can't keep acting like this is some small group of crazy people.
    I don't go by "liberal" or "conservative". I'm just a guy looking for a straight answer. If you say "masses" I take it to mean you mean masses. The masses of Muslims are not blood thirsty radical killers. OK?

    OK.

    Fuck radical Islam! This coming FROM a Muslim.


    :-bd
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    brianlux said:

    badbrains said:

    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    brianlux said:

    Staceb10 said:

    Myth of Muslim violence? Not a myth when the masses embrace it. I used to think radical Islam was minority but not anymore.

    Masses? As in the majority? Where do you get this information? I don't think even Faux News goes that far. Maybe some of the far right pundits but they're just entertainers. Links? References? (Sorry, you're not going to find any that are worth a thought, damn or straw.)



    Why do liberals act like conservatives only watch Fox News? That isn't the case and you guys should really start using a better argument. Masses wasn't a literal comment but when there are over 30k muslims in ISIS.. that's not counting the Al Qaeda faction of terrorists.. or Hamas.. then that is more than just a few Islamic radicals. I do understand that Muslims aren't inherently violent but people can't keep acting like this is some small group of crazy people.
    I don't go by "liberal" or "conservative". I'm just a guy looking for a straight answer. If you say "masses" I take it to mean you mean masses. The masses of Muslims are not blood thirsty radical killers. OK?

    OK.

    Fuck radical Islam! This coming FROM a Muslim.


    :-bd
    I'd protest those fuckers just as I protested against the war. NO MORE. Enough.
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    in eye to eye life, bb, if you spoke against those IS clowns, i would think they would enjoy fucking you up awhile, you know torture & murder because you protested their silly ass bullshit.

    or

    you grabbed a machine gun real fast & started laying down some lead, you know maybe toss a few gernades at their goofy asses.

    does the local mosque speak out against these idiots? i would believe they do. they may want to consider using their money donations to supply weaponry to those fighting IS
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    chadwick said:

    in eye to eye life, bb, if you spoke against those IS clowns, i would think they would enjoy fucking you up awhile, you know torture & murder because you protested their silly ass bullshit.

    or

    you grabbed a machine gun real fast & started laying down some lead, you know maybe toss a few gernades at their goofy asses.

    does the local mosque speak out against these idiots? i would believe they do. they may want to consider using their money donations to supply weaponry to those fighting IS

    Or maybe the powers that be can allow these governments who have IS running rampant in their countries to take care of their rat infestation of IS. Close the border in turkey for 3 days and watch what syrias army/air force can do with IS. But America won't allow that to happen. Now ask yourself why?

    And yes Chadwick, I'm sure mosques around the ENTIRE world speak up AGAINST IS. You guys just don't hear about here because it doesn't fit the "agenda."
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    thank you, bb
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    chadwick said:

    thank you, bb

    Anytime my friend.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 3,038
    The focus on IS seems far too narrow to me. They're simply the nuttiest of the nutty. It does seem to me that the Muslim world (by which I mean those countries that are majority Muslim) suffers from widespread illiberalism, which in the most extreme cases manifests itself in groups like IS, but more routinely takes the form of repression of women, gays, and religious and ethnic minorities, brutal penal laws, a violent defensiveness around matters of faith (e.g., the cartoon incident, Rushdie), etc. Not every country is necessarily afflicted, and those that are, are not always afflicted in the same way. And I fully acknowledge that not all of this is due to the influence of Islamic ideas. Still, I don't think it's unfair to question how Islamic doctrines/teachings contribute to these maladies. And I also think that when viewed through this wider lens it becomes a bit more problematic to assert that the percentage of Muslims in the world that we're talking about is vanishingly small. When you start talking about how many Muslims subscribe to really troubling beliefs about how to treat women, gays, religion, etc., and do so explicitly based on what they understand to be the teachings of Islam, I think we're talking about a pretty significant percentage of the Muslim world.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited October 2014
    yosi said:

    The focus on IS seems far too narrow to me. They're simply the nuttiest of the nutty. It does seem to me that the Muslim world (by which I mean those countries that are majority Muslim) suffers from widespread illiberalism, which in the most extreme cases manifests itself in groups like IS, but more routinely takes the form of repression of women, gays, and religious and ethnic minorities, brutal penal laws, a violent defensiveness around matters of faith (e.g., the cartoon incident, Rushdie), etc. Not every country is necessarily afflicted, and those that are, are not always afflicted in the same way. And I fully acknowledge that not all of this is due to the influence of Islamic ideas. Still, I don't think it's unfair to question how Islamic doctrines/teachings contribute to these maladies. And I also think that when viewed through this wider lens it becomes a bit more problematic to assert that the percentage of Muslims in the world that we're talking about is vanishingly small. When you start talking about how many Muslims subscribe to really troubling beliefs about how to treat women, gays, religion, etc., and do so explicitly based on what they understand to be the teachings of Islam, I think we're talking about a pretty significant percentage of the Muslim world.

    Of course you do. Funny, you were MIA during your country's mass murder of Palestinians and now that byrnzie's gone and the fire has somewhat Deminshed with regards to Israel, you come on here and throw facts out the window and claim that we shouldn't look at the percentage as small even though polls show that it's THAT SMALL. Smh. Care to share what your teachings are? Oh wait, never mind, I think we already know. Unreal yosi, unreal.

    Edit-thanks, we don't have enough islamophobia out there. Please, push more hate.
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • yosiyosi Posts: 3,038
    I think you're vastly overreacting to my comments. My point is simply that while the number of people in the world who support something like IS is almost certainly miniscule, a much larger group of people appear to subscribe to beliefs that I think many of us would agree are troubling, and they understand their reasons for doing so to be grounded in Islam. For example, what percentage of Muslims in the world do you think believe, based on their understanding of their faith, that homosexuality is a problem? I don't have a poll handy with the answer, but I'd be shocked if the percentage wasn't significant. Now, clearly what I'm talking about isn't a problem only with Islam, but anecdotally at least, it seems like religiously inspired illiberalism is particularly widespread and virulent in the Muslim world RIGHT NOW. I don't think it's islamophobic to criticize a religion for its teachings. Am I Catholophobic because I think that a lot of Church teachings are utter bullshit and contribute to real misery in the world?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited October 2014
    yosi said:

    I think you're vastly overreacting to my comments. My point is simply that while the number of people in the world who support something like IS is almost certainly miniscule, a much larger group of people appear to subscribe to beliefs that I think many of us would agree are troubling, and they understand their reasons for doing so to be grounded in Islam. For example, what percentage of Muslims in the world do you think believe, based on their understanding of their faith, that homosexuality is a problem? I don't have a poll handy with the answer, but I'd be shocked if the percentage wasn't significant. Now, clearly what I'm talking about isn't a problem only with Islam, but anecdotally at least, it seems like religiously inspired illiberalism is particularly widespread and virulent in the Muslim world RIGHT NOW. I don't think it's islamophobic to criticize a religion for its teachings. Am I Catholophobic because I think that a lot of Church teachings are utter bullshit and contribute to real misery in the world?

    I don't see Muslims everywhere killing people because they are gay. There mite be a big number of Muslims who are against homosexuality just like there are in the catholic religion, but they're not out there dropping bombs or launching artillery at them because they are gay. But your teachings seem to teach that you guys have a god given right to a land and to do whatever it takes to get said land. Hence you see what happened a couple months ago.

    So since we're talking about faults in religions, what do you find WRONG with the teachings of YOUR religion? I'm curious to see this.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 3,038
    Am I missing something? Did I ever say anything about killing anyone. Pretty sure I didn't, so I'm totally confused about what you're reacting to. Also not sure what Israel has to do with this. Just seems like you're deflecting.

    As for faults with my own religion, let's see...insofar as there are Jews that believe the following based on their understanding of Judaism, my biggest issues right now are with any notion that women or gays should be unequal, that Jews are in some way inherently better than other people, and that religion should trump secular law.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosiyosi Posts: 3,038
    And you may want to work on your tone. It's not all that friendly.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited October 2014
    yosi said:

    And you may want to work on your tone. It's not all that friendly.

    You come on here spreading MORE fear, as if there ISNT enough people doing that. And then you go to tell me to work on my tone? Really? What are you gonna do, tell on me? Beat me up? Please. Have a good night yosi. Is that a better tone for you? Smh
  • yosiyosi Posts: 3,038
    I didn't realize I was spreading fear. Not sure how I'm doing that. Maybe if you're a woman in Saudi Arabia reading this and you somehow weren't aware of how your country treats women you might be frightened. But really, it seems like your position is that any critical discussion of Islam is out of bounds. That doesn't make any sense to me.

    And I really don't understand why you insist on being so hostile. I don't know that I've said anything to deserve it.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    edited October 2014
    badbrains, take a deep breath, and make sure to keep your mind and eyes open to what Yosi just wrote - it was actually very reasonable and spoken from a place of statistical and logical analysis. For the record, I know your response is from a place of frustration, not hostility, and I'm as guilty as anyone of doing that.

    His verifiable logic is as follows: Muslim states have a history of illiberalism statistically, often predicated upon Islamic notions. Muslim extremists have a history of illiberalism statistically, often predicated upon Islamic notions (which are often expressed radically, disseminated hastily, and at others' expense, with added violence). We should check for causality relationships. In other words: we should zoom out, explore the avenue that the religion itself will inherently lead to such extremist outbursts. I personally think this will prove to be false, but we can't pick and choose what avenues we explore (or, more significantly, the ones we opt out of exploring). If someone presents one such avenue that's logically deductible, it needs to be observed to better understand the story of "what's going on": otherwise, it introduces bias by omission of key facts.

    I personally think the better question is, when most or all religions have inherently violent roots, what's the common theme amongst the extremists of a sect which choose to act out violently and inhumanely? Once the catalyst to the violence can be identified (which I would assume has to do with the square-pegs-in-round-holes nature of putting nation states in a predominantly sectarian society such as the middle east, courtesy of European and American interventionism/expansionism/capitalism), then it can be dealt with. Only then will that violence (which I truly believe is a byproduct - not the primary exertion of will) begin to dissipate. You don't have to use religion either to study this - nationalism works just as well, and the theme (interventionism/expansionism) might be a byproduct of something else too - I'm just not sure!

    Also, Yosi just more or less just told you that the two of you are speaking up in favour of the same end products in Israel and the Palestinian regions: equality based on faith, equal rights for all non-invasive personal beliefs (i.e. no harm to others by doing X), and the abolishment of moral superiority by religion.

    We always did feel the same, we just saw it from a different point of view.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    yosi said:

    The focus on IS seems far too narrow to me. They're simply the nuttiest of the nutty. It does seem to me that the Muslim world (by which I mean those countries that are majority Muslim) suffers from widespread illiberalism, which in the most extreme cases manifests itself in groups like IS, but more routinely takes the form of repression of women, gays, and religious and ethnic minorities, brutal penal laws, a violent defensiveness around matters of faith (e.g., the cartoon incident, Rushdie), etc. Not every country is necessarily afflicted, and those that are, are not always afflicted in the same way. And I fully acknowledge that not all of this is due to the influence of Islamic ideas. Still, I don't think it's unfair to question how Islamic doctrines/teachings contribute to these maladies. And I also think that when viewed through this wider lens it becomes a bit more problematic to assert that the percentage of Muslims in the world that we're talking about is vanishingly small. When you start talking about how many Muslims subscribe to really troubling beliefs about how to treat women, gays, religion, etc., and do so explicitly based on what they understand to be the teachings of Islam, I think we're talking about a pretty significant percentage of the Muslim world.

    Interesting read here.
    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Homosexuality.shtml

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited October 2014
    mickeyrat said:

    yosi said:

    The focus on IS seems far too narrow to me. They're simply the nuttiest of the nutty. It does seem to me that the Muslim world (by which I mean those countries that are majority Muslim) suffers from widespread illiberalism, which in the most extreme cases manifests itself in groups like IS, but more routinely takes the form of repression of women, gays, and religious and ethnic minorities, brutal penal laws, a violent defensiveness around matters of faith (e.g., the cartoon incident, Rushdie), etc. Not every country is necessarily afflicted, and those that are, are not always afflicted in the same way. And I fully acknowledge that not all of this is due to the influence of Islamic ideas. Still, I don't think it's unfair to question how Islamic doctrines/teachings contribute to these maladies. And I also think that when viewed through this wider lens it becomes a bit more problematic to assert that the percentage of Muslims in the world that we're talking about is vanishingly small. When you start talking about how many Muslims subscribe to really troubling beliefs about how to treat women, gays, religion, etc., and do so explicitly based on what they understand to be the teachings of Islam, I think we're talking about a pretty significant percentage of the Muslim world.

    Interesting read here.
    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Homosexuality.shtml

    Look at that, not only does Islam and Christianity have a problem with homosexuality, Judaism does to. An abomination in Judaism? Who would've thought.

    I'm angry at yosi because when Israel was destroying the SHIT out of gaza, he was no where to be seen for almost 2 months. Then with all the fire dying down with Israel, he comes back and posts on a thread that basically people had their say in. I know what you're doing yosi and so do others.

    Edit-I'm ALL for liberating the house of saud, we should liberate them as soon as we're done liberating Palestine.
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    I didn't realize I was spreading fear. Not sure how I'm doing that. Maybe if you're a woman in Saudi Arabia reading this and you somehow weren't aware of how your country treats women you might be frightened. But really, it seems like your position is that any critical discussion of Islam is out of bounds. That doesn't make any sense to me.

    And I really don't understand why you insist on being so hostile. I don't know that I've said anything to deserve it.

    Oh so the way women are treated in Saudi Arabia like shit because of Islam? Islam teaches you to treat women like shit? We're basing the treatment of women in Islam on the way Saudi Arabia treats them? Really? So that's a Muslim thing? Shit, then I guess I'm NOT Muslim and ALL the Muslims I know are fake Muslims cuz we treat women with RESPECT. Damn, I've been following my religion WRONG all these years. Smh
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS. I in no way think that the majority of muslims are radical and terrorists but it isn't a "myth". that Muslims are the ones responsible for most of the terror attacks over the last 2 decades. They are the ones blowing people up, cutting their heads off on camera for people to watch, killing children and let's hope you aren't a muslim female who is raped and then killed for your "sin" of shaming the family.

    I don't care if there is 1 radical Islamist or 3 million. Something has to be done about this "myth" of violence happening right now.

    Yes, something has to be done. What is that, stace? Bomb bomb bomb, right?
    Were you not a supporter of the war in Iraq? How did that work out? You and a few others from those days disappeared from the train for years after the war lost public favour....I wish the board's archives went back that far...

    Since when is the onus on peace activists to stop the actions of extremists? This makes no sense. 'Radicalized' people are not going to listen to a peacenik. Even so, there have been many public calls for an end to the violence by muslim leaders. There have been muslim-led protests against the IS all over the world. These stories (like any protest) get little media play. And in the end, what good does it do? Not to mention the fact that comments like yours contribute to an atmosphere of hate that I would guess makes muslims more insular, instead of outspoken. These attacks are almost always politically motivated reaction to foreign policy.
    I'm guessing you either didn't watch the video in the OP, because your post falls into the exact trap Rezlan describes. Ascribing regional issues to a worldwide religion. Where are your comments on the 'myth' of the war on terror, and the 20 years of state terror imposed on multiple middle-east countries, by the West?


  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    Staceb10 said:

    So where are these 1.6 billion peaceful muslims? Why aren't they standing up to these tyrants that are destroying their religion? I would think that they would be able to control the 30-40k radicals in ISIS. I in no way think that the majority of muslims are radical and terrorists but it isn't a "myth". that Muslims are the ones responsible for most of the terror attacks over the last 2 decades. They are the ones blowing people up, cutting their heads off on camera for people to watch, killing children and let's hope you aren't a muslim female who is raped and then killed for your "sin" of shaming the family.

    I don't care if there is 1 radical Islamist or 3 million. Something has to be done about this "myth" of violence happening right now.

    Yes, something has to be done. What is that, stace? Bomb bomb bomb, right?
    Were you not a supporter of the war in Iraq? How did that work out? You and a few others from those days disappeared from the train for years after the war lost public favour....I wish the board's archives went back that far...

    Since when is the onus on peace activists to stop the actions of extremists? This makes no sense. 'Radicalized' people are not going to listen to a peacenik. Even so, there have been many public calls for an end to the violence by muslim leaders. There have been muslim-led protests against the IS all over the world. These stories (like any protest) get little media play. And in the end, what good does it do? Not to mention the fact that comments like yours contribute to an atmosphere of hate that I would guess makes muslims more insular, instead of outspoken. These attacks are almost always politically motivated reaction to foreign policy.
    I'm guessing you either didn't watch the video in the OP, because your post falls into the exact trap Rezlan describes. Ascribing regional issues to a worldwide religion. Where are your comments on the 'myth' of the war on terror, and the 20 years of state terror imposed on multiple middle-east countries, by the West?


    You're being to rational drowned out. People don't like critical thinkers like you. ;)
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