Sorry,i dont get..

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Comments

  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    the video contradicts the account given by SLPD.

    living in st louis, this is precisely why the situation in ferguson is what it is.

    What was the police account?
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    Last-12-Exit said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    the video contradicts the account given by SLPD.

    living in st louis, this is precisely why the situation in ferguson is what it is.

    What was the police account?
    that he attacked the police, with an overhand grip on the knife, with the knife raised over his head as if he was going to stab them.

    that is not in this video.

    they shot him a dozen times.

    that's not enough....

    should have maybe given him one to grow on too...

    :fp:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited August 2014
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    dignin said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Indifference71 said:

    dignin said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    chadwick said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    I would call this suicide by cop. This guy knew what was about to happen.

    thank you. this is what i am thinking too
    If that's the case, it makes even less sense. If the guy had been standing on a roof the cops would have done everything in their power to stop him from killing himself.
    If he was on a rooftop, he wouldn't be threatening the cops with a knife. Bottom line is that this ass hole was charging at the police with a weapon.
    That changes nothing. A suicidal person should be helped, not killed. Tasers, pepper spray.... deadly force was not in any way necessary here.
    It's not up to the police officers being threatened to decide if the guy is suicidal or not while being charged at with a deadly weapon.
    Why not? If the guy said "Shoot me already" and was bringing a knife to a gunfight I think it's pretty safe to say he is suicidal. If a cop can't figure that out, they have no business being a cop.
    It's real easy to say all this after the fact. In the heat of the moment when someone is coming at you with a knife, how are you supposed to not defend yourself? Should the cop try to wrestle the knife away from the guy and risk getting themselves stabbed and/or killed?

    And this wasn't a "gunfight". The cops were responding to a call and then someone decided to not listen to their command and come at them with a knife.
    I've read that they shot him 17 seconds after arriving. That tells me that they didn't bother thinking at all. IMO it is part of their job to think. To assess a situation. And also to use their training and use a taser when someone is displaying threatening behaviour unless they are pointing a gun at them or are at the very least close enough to harm them. I love how some people don't think cops are required to use their brains and their training while on the job.
    They could have chosen any number of options. Taken a step back and given themselves more time. Gotten back in their vehicle. Anything but shooting the guy multiple times.

    Seems to me that they escalated the situation by drawing their guns out immediately. If you watch closely he didn't even pull his knife out until they came out guns drawn.
    Fuks sakes, man.

    Seriously? Get back in the car? Maybe play 'ring around the cop car' with the knife wielding maniac chasing the backpedaling cops as they keep trying to calm him down? Maybe drive away and look for a more cooperative, knife wielding, looney dude?

    I'm flabbergasted. I too would like to have seen tasers and pepper spray, but I haven't lost sight of the fact that this guy was dangerous and looking for a fight. If this was an innocent kid riding his bike home while drinking a squishy... well I'd be the first to say, "Fuck those cops. Let's get them!" But this wasn't the case here. People are calling it 'execution'... I'm calling it self-defence.

    Ironically, some of the same people that argue for gun rights- so they can defend themselves- are arguing against the cops defending themselves. Conflicted or what?
    No need to say fucks sake. It was a suggestion (admittedly not a good one) I for one would do everything in my power not to kill someone. It would be a last resort. This looked nothing like last resort.

    It was clear from the video he wasn't out to kill random bystanders. The bystanders and guy filming walked right by him. He most likely wanted death by cop. They seemed more than eager give it to him.

    They escalated the situation by drawing guns on him before they even saw a weapon. Is that what they are trained to do? I hope the fuck not.

    Post edited by dignin on
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    dignin said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Indifference71 said:

    dignin said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    chadwick said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    I would call this suicide by cop. This guy knew what was about to happen.

    thank you. this is what i am thinking too
    If that's the case, it makes even less sense. If the guy had been standing on a roof the cops would have done everything in their power to stop him from killing himself.
    If he was on a rooftop, he wouldn't be threatening the cops with a knife. Bottom line is that this ass hole was charging at the police with a weapon.
    That changes nothing. A suicidal person should be helped, not killed. Tasers, pepper spray.... deadly force was not in any way necessary here.
    It's not up to the police officers being threatened to decide if the guy is suicidal or not while being charged at with a deadly weapon.
    Why not? If the guy said "Shoot me already" and was bringing a knife to a gunfight I think it's pretty safe to say he is suicidal. If a cop can't figure that out, they have no business being a cop.
    It's real easy to say all this after the fact. In the heat of the moment when someone is coming at you with a knife, how are you supposed to not defend yourself? Should the cop try to wrestle the knife away from the guy and risk getting themselves stabbed and/or killed?

    And this wasn't a "gunfight". The cops were responding to a call and then someone decided to not listen to their command and come at them with a knife.
    I've read that they shot him 17 seconds after arriving. That tells me that they didn't bother thinking at all. IMO it is part of their job to think. To assess a situation. And also to use their training and use a taser when someone is displaying threatening behaviour unless they are pointing a gun at them or are at the very least close enough to harm them. I love how some people don't think cops are required to use their brains and their training while on the job.
    They could have chosen any number of options. Taken a step back and given themselves more time. Gotten back in their vehicle. Anything but shooting the guy multiple times.

    Seems to me that they escalated the situation by drawing their guns out immediately. If you watch closely he didn't even pull his knife out until they came out guns drawn.
    Fuks sakes, man.

    Seriously? Get back in the car? Maybe play 'ring around the cop car' with the knife wielding maniac chasing the backpedaling cops as they keep trying to calm him down? Maybe drive away and look for a more cooperative, knife wielding, looney dude?

    I'm flabbergasted. I too would like to have seen tasers and pepper spray, but I haven't lost sight of the fact that this guy was dangerous and looking for a fight. If this was an innocent kid riding his bike home while drinking a squishy... well I'd be the first to say, "Fuck those cops. Let's get them!" But this wasn't the case here. People are calling it 'execution'... I'm calling it self-defence.

    Ironically, some of the same people that argue for gun rights- so they can defend themselves- are arguing against the cops defending themselves. Conflicted or what?
    No need to say fucks sake. It was a suggestion (admittedly not a good one) I for one would do everything in my power not to kill someone. It would be a last resort. This looked nothing like last resort.

    It was clear from the video he wasn't out to kill random bystanders. The bystanders and guy filming walked right by him. He most likely wanted death by cop. They seemed more than eager give it to him.

    They escalated the situation by drawing guns on him before they even saw a weapon. Is that what they are trained to do? I hope the fuck not.

    I am growing weary of all the armchair cops dissecting the plays some officers make in the field.

    The bottom line to me is as follows: this guy initiated a fight and seemed intent on engaging in it. He never got to thrusting his knife into either of the cops, but he sure looked like he was inching his way towards them to do so.

    Something like that sure puts a guy in a tough spot. I am growing weary of people refusing to acknowledge that as much as they wish for a different outcome... the situation was difficult to manage.

    Did the cops overreact? I think so. But their culpability in this situation is nowhere near the level the knife-wielding, fight seeking, crazy guy. If he'd exercised even a remote level of common sense, he'd still be alive. I understand there might be mental health issues that might have prevented him from recognizing the severity of the situation, but to the officers... he's as dangerous as dangerous can be.

    Do people actually expect cops to suffer a serious wound before they look to defend themselves? How about expecting people to not antagonize and confront cops?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Wma31394 said:

    Get back in the car??... Not an option.. Imagine a video like that going viral were the cops run from a dude branding a knife..nice example of serve and protect.

    A shot in the knee caps?.taser? Warning shot?? Perhaps.. But I won't pretend I'm a cop and say what's right and wrong.. Fluid situation.. Adrenalin rush..and fear. According to their captain on CNN last they did the right thing according to their training..he almost seemed to cocky during his interview..

    Based on the lack of outcry from this instance it seems like the majority of general public sees no wrong doing..

    Tough to say.. Murder?? Probably not.. Could it been handled differently and could death have been prevented?? Probably yes.

    Quite fair.

    And of course just because it was done according to training does not make it inherently 'right', cause at the end of the day, 'life' is the most important thing, Mass appeal does not always mean universal truth, a universal truth, something that we all (probably) agree is that 'life is important and taking life must always be a last resort in these kinds of situations, surely!...So just because we dont see major outcry right now does not mean that what happened was right.

    And it does seem that this could've been handled without death being the outcome. Perhaps!

    I do have a question, what other weapons did the officers have? Did they even have a taser on them to use?

    Regardless, what happened has happened, we need real solutions now, we need to equip our police forces with /better non lethal tools to get 'control' of these types of situations.

    2014, the old gun and lethal bullets is really still the best way to diffuse situations? To, gain control?

    We need a better way,
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    and I'm not saying that Cops should not carry a lethal weapon, but rather an officer should always have a non lethal alternative tool/weapon to use in this same situation.

    Is it an issue of spending money developing these better tools?

    Anyway.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I don't disagree with using non lethal weapons for certain incidents. But considering the circumstances in Ferguson and the surrounding areas right now, the gun may be the first option just because everyone is on edge. I understand the double edge sword that creates. But the drastic situations cause for drastic measures. It's not perfect, but it may be the only way right now. What this comes down to, wheather you agree or not, listen to the cops. If they say put it down, you probably better listen.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Idris said:

    and I'm not saying that Cops should not carry a lethal weapon, but rather an officer should always have a non lethal alternative tool/weapon to use in this same situation.

    Is it an issue of spending money developing these better tools?

    Anyway.

    Agree. Be great to safely neutralize suspect.

    "Scotty put it on stun"
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    callen said:

    Idris said:

    and I'm not saying that Cops should not carry a lethal weapon, but rather an officer should always have a non lethal alternative tool/weapon to use in this same situation.

    Is it an issue of spending money developing these better tools?

    Anyway.

    Agree. Be great to safely neutralize suspect.

    "Scotty put it on stun"
    :) I smile when I read Star Trek references.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    if police is only for shoot to kill,u dont need them..maybe marines need to patrol the cities..so shoot everything moves and put snipers to every roof
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    dimitrispearljam said:

    if police is only for shoot to kill,u dont need them..maybe marines need to patrol the cities..so shoot everything moves and put snipers to every roof

    That's just silly.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Last-12-Exit said:

    dimitrispearljam said:

    if police is only for shoot to kill,u dont need them..maybe marines need to patrol the cities..so shoot everything moves and put snipers to every roof

    That's just silly.
    well,that was an execution and not serve and protect..
    how many bullets 2 armed police officers need to shot to unarm a guy?/
    yto take away the weapon?to calm a person down,to secure the area??one?two? three??
    this is the same as the that crazy asshole cut the head of the jernoulist..
    both murders..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Last-12-Exit said:

    dimitrispearljam said:

    if police is only for shoot to kill,u dont need them..maybe marines need to patrol the cities..so shoot everything moves and put snipers to every roof

    That's just silly.
    it isnt. silly is doggedly backing cops just cuz they are cops. they act like soldiers shooting to kill...the rest of the world looks at america like a bunch of savages and i can see why.
    all across the world knife weilding maniacs are dealt with SAFELY by cops who dont even carry guns. why not here? why is deadly force so permissable..

    btw thirty bills you answered my question deftly and without evasion in the MB tread...not
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Wow dimi. You just compared 2 police officers who were protecting themselves to an Islamic radical group kidnapping and sawing the head off a journalist.
  • wall232
    wall232 New York Posts: 1,346
    This man knew what he was doing. Suicide by cop, not murder.

    NYPJ
  • wall232
    wall232 New York Posts: 1,346
    rgambs said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    dimitrispearljam said:

    if police is only for shoot to kill,u dont need them..maybe marines need to patrol the cities..so shoot everything moves and put snipers to every roof

    That's just silly.
    it isnt. silly is doggedly backing cops just cuz they are cops. they act like soldiers shooting to kill...the rest of the world looks at america like a bunch of savages and i can see why.
    all across the world knife weilding maniacs are dealt with SAFELY by cops who dont even carry guns. why not here? why is deadly force so permissable..

    btw thirty bills you answered my question deftly and without evasion in the MB tread...not
    What's silly is always bashing cops just because they're cops. I’ve seen this too many times on this board and I just don’t get it. Yes there are bad cops out there, but there are so many good cops out doing good things every day. You don’t hear about these events because it’s not newsworthy..
    NYPJ
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    wall232 said:

    rgambs said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    dimitrispearljam said:

    if police is only for shoot to kill,u dont need them..maybe marines need to patrol the cities..so shoot everything moves and put snipers to every roof

    That's just silly.
    it isnt. silly is doggedly backing cops just cuz they are cops. they act like soldiers shooting to kill...the rest of the world looks at america like a bunch of savages and i can see why.
    all across the world knife weilding maniacs are dealt with SAFELY by cops who dont even carry guns. why not here? why is deadly force so permissable..

    btw thirty bills you answered my question deftly and without evasion in the MB tread...not
    What's silly is always bashing cops just because they're cops. I’ve seen this too many times on this board and I just don’t get it. Yes there are bad cops out there, but there are so many good cops out doing good things every day. You don’t hear about these events because it’s not newsworthy..
    cops get bashed on this board when they gun people down in the streets...thats a far cry from bashing them for putting on the uniform. I suppose we should be good little subjects and allow the use of deadly force without trying to understand why?
    Forget that!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Who's bashing cops just because they are cops? These cops are getting bashed cause they are shooting/killing people in situations where deadly force does not seem necessary.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    It's not up to us to decide when it is or is not necessary to use their weapon. We are not the ones out there facing these situations. How easy is it to sit at our computers watching these videos and when we weren't facing that guy. Unless you were a cop, how can you say that it was unnecessary to use a gun. Most of us have never really faced a life threatening situation in our lives. Yet we want to tell the people who face them on a daily basis how to handle it.
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Last-12-Exit said:

    It's not up to us to decide when it is or is not necessary to use their weapon. We are not the ones out there facing these situations. How easy is it to sit at our computers watching these videos and when we weren't facing that guy. Unless you were a cop, how can you say that it was unnecessary to use a gun. Most of us have never really faced a life threatening situation in our lives. Yet we want to tell the people who face them on a daily basis how to handle it.

    I've faced deadly situations before, I know what I'm talking about. Thanks for your conjecture.

    (I was also stabbed once before, trust me, I get it)

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