Thirty - yes, some users would be more easily distracted. Others would be more focused. With weed, it's very subjective. Obviously, I am talking mostly about weed here. I don't think anyone wants a 16 year old doing coke or any other drug. The disruption i was talking about was to the rest of the class.....sure, if someone is slacking, it can influence others. But for the most part I think these kids are distracting/disrupting no one but themselves. As you acknowledge - if people want to smoke it, they will. The question is how to deal with it. I think it's more constructive to have a more dialogue-based approach than an authoritative one....harm reduction over punishment, just like with the legal system. We need to teach these kids and help them, not just give them lines to cross and punish them when they do (not that that is what you're suggesting, just saying). Of course, i'm being vague and I realize there will always be rules.... To the rest of your post....not sure why you're bringing the slippery slope/gateway argument into this, unless it's to support some form of prohibitionist stance....but again - an individual's ability to use responsibly is subjective, and you acknowledge that. It goes without saying that some people don't do well with drugs.
I'm definitely not a prohibitionist. I'm 100% in favour of legalization.
Schools try to promote as healthy environment as possible for kids: schools in our district do not have vending machines that sell pop or chips. Having the school institution also try and maintain a drug and alcohol free environment is not a bad thing. Schools do not suspend kids from school for drinking beer or smoking pot on the weekend- they only do when kids 'cross the line' and bring the party onto the learning environment.
I'm a little taken aback that some posters on here seem to imply that schools should relax their drug and alcohol policies so that kids won't get in trouble for smoking dope. I have already detailed why many feel drugs have no place inside of schools and I feel the reasons I offered are legitimate and should give enough cause for concern to support such a position.
Kids know the deal: if they choose to cross the line, then they have done so prepared to deal with the consequences if caught. We don't need to lower the bar every time kids get into trouble so that they won't get into trouble. I think we actually need to set standards so that kids learn to deal with such standards appropriately. Kids that wish to use drugs should do so off the school grounds... just as employees of a business should wait until after work at a more appropriate location with no responsibilities to do their drugs.
For the record, in our school system that is free of sting operations and police presence, a kid has to be extremely careless- or wreckless- to get caught.
Kids know the deal: if they choose to cross the line, then they have done so prepared to deal with the consequences if caught. We don't need to lower the bar every time kids get into trouble so that they won't get into trouble. I think we actually need to set standards so that kids learn to deal with such standards appropriately. Kids that wish to use drugs should do so off the school grounds... just as employees of a business should wait until after work at a more appropriate location with no responsibilities to do their drugs.
I have no problem with this - I knew that for each of my suspensions, I had it coming; I exercised poor judgment. It's like the few times I've been pulled over and ticketed for speeding - what am I gonna do, protest? I did what I did and no matter the situation, have to be held accountable for my actions, at the least by my own conscience and at the most by the laws in place at the time.
I've learned from it too.
The sting, though, for pot? Just seemed such a waste of resources.
In the 80s everyone was stoned,smelled like pot from the wake and bake,and we skipped class to surf,get high,have sex and eat Taco Viva(good times in deed).We were all good students and had all the parents/parent fooled.and with the exception of a few,we all came out as professionals,Successful Buisness people and leaders in community.Kinda scary really now that I think about it.
Yep. Same with us in the 90s. With the exception of the losers with criminal/violent tendencies or low IQs or horrible life circumstances or whatever (ie, factors not related directly to drug use), the stoners and partiers turned out as well as most people.
Not entirely true depending on what you perceive as 'well as most people'.
A buddy and I had this discussion a few weeks back and we reflected on all of the dopers of old that are still dopers- living life now as they did when they were 18... never truly amounting to anything. There are many we spoke of- some had completely lost it.
Now, don't get me wrong. Outside of those that lost their minds... maybe this is the way people should be: work just enough to feed and clothe yourself, pay your bills, get high everyday, and drunk on the weekends. There's certainly something remotely attractive for such a lifestyle; however, I think it is fair to say that... generally speaking... we'd like to see those closest to us strive for a little more.
Kids know the deal: if they choose to cross the line, then they have done so prepared to deal with the consequences if caught. We don't need to lower the bar every time kids get into trouble so that they won't get into trouble. I think we actually need to set standards so that kids learn to deal with such standards appropriately. Kids that wish to use drugs should do so off the school grounds... just as employees of a business should wait until after work at a more appropriate location with no responsibilities to do their drugs.
I have no problem with this - I knew that for each of my suspensions, I had it coming; I exercised poor judgment. It's like the few times I've been pulled over and ticketed for speeding - what am I gonna do, protest? I did what I did and no matter the situation, have to be held accountable for my actions, at the least by my own conscience and at the most by the laws in place at the time.
I've learned from it too.
The sting, though, for pot? Just seemed such a waste of resources.
I agree with what you posed here. Not to mention the fact that they hardly got a bad guy.
A waste of resources and a serious misfire with regards to 'fighting crime'.
In the 80s everyone was stoned,smelled like pot from the wake and bake,and we skipped class to surf,get high,have sex and eat Taco Viva(good times in deed).We were all good students and had all the parents/parent fooled.and with the exception of a few,we all came out as professionals,Successful Buisness people and leaders in community.Kinda scary really now that I think about it.
Yep. Same with us in the 90s. With the exception of the losers with criminal/violent tendencies or low IQs or horrible life circumstances or whatever (ie, factors not related directly to drug use), the stoners and partiers turned out as well as most people.
Not entirely true depending on what you perceive as 'well as most people'.
A buddy and I had this discussion a few weeks back and we reflected on all of the dopers of old that are still dopers- living life now as they did when they were 18... never truly amounting to anything. There are many we spoke of- some had completely lost it.
Now, don't get me wrong. Outside of those that lost their minds... maybe this is the way people should be: work just enough to feed and clothe yourself, pay your bills, get high everyday, and drunk on the weekends. There's certainly something remotely attractive for such a lifestyle; however, I think it is fair to say that... generally speaking... we'd like to see those closest to us strive for a little more.
I suppose... I personally think that people should live their lives in a way that makes them most happy. I'm sure there are people out there who really are happy and content living the way you described or any other way that doesn't conform to what society's idea of "success" is. And I actually think that's admirable, assuming the person isn't wishing they were living some other way. Hell, they could be living in a tent in the woods for all I care. I will respect their choice as long as they are content doing it. But that's really neither here nor there. The question is whether or not those people would be doing any better specifically because they didn't get stoned in school. I don't see any reason to assume that. Perhaps it's true... but I'd like to see some evidence.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In the 80s everyone was stoned,smelled like pot from the wake and bake,and we skipped class to surf,get high,have sex and eat Taco Viva(good times in deed).We were all good students and had all the parents/parent fooled.and with the exception of a few,we all came out as professionals,Successful Buisness people and leaders in community.Kinda scary really now that I think about it.
Yep. Same with us in the 90s. With the exception of the losers with criminal/violent tendencies or low IQs or horrible life circumstances or whatever (ie, factors not related directly to drug use), the stoners and partiers turned out as well as most people.
Not entirely true depending on what you perceive as 'well as most people'.
A buddy and I had this discussion a few weeks back and we reflected on all of the dopers of old that are still dopers- living life now as they did when they were 18... never truly amounting to anything. There are many we spoke of- some had completely lost it.
Now, don't get me wrong. Outside of those that lost their minds... maybe this is the way people should be: work just enough to feed and clothe yourself, pay your bills, get high everyday, and drunk on the weekends. There's certainly something remotely attractive for such a lifestyle; however, I think it is fair to say that... generally speaking... we'd like to see those closest to us strive for a little more.
I suppose... I personally think that people should live their lives in a way that makes them most happy. I'm sure there are people out there who really are happy and content living the way you described or any other way that doesn't conform to what society's idea of "success" is. And I actually think that's admirable, assuming the person isn't wishing they were living some other way. Hell, they could be living in a tent in the woods for all I care. I will respect their choice as long as they are content doing it. But that's really neither here nor there. The question is whether or not those people would be doing any better specifically because they didn't get stoned in school. I don't see any reason to assume that. Perhaps it's true... but I'd like to see some evidence.
Evidence would be hard to procure.
My gut tells me that some people fell in love with a lifestyle and before they knew it... much had passed them by. If drugs were not part of said people's pasts... I'm not inclined to think they'd be frittering away their days watching Judge Wapner as a substitute for pot. I am inclined to think they would have chosen a different path that led to a different and arguably a more productive and enjoyable lifestyle.
I'm not opposed to people smoking pot. I'm just saying it's hard for kids to maintain a balanced lifestyle. Left to their own choices... many kids would only eat Big Macs and pizza, smoke pot and drink, and never go to school. It's up to the adults to provide the appropriate context for them to understand the need for balance (as well as how to achieve balance). Schools are as good a place as any to help with this- especially considering the amount of kids that do not have the proper support and guidance at home.
Thirty, your last paragraph makes much sense...balance, guidance, solid examples of what a kid should shoot for as an adult.
For what it's worth - and I must acknowledge my parents' roles, despite their divorcing when I was in my early teens - believe it (the later life, that is) is dependent on the individual and the overall environment in which they're raised. I've smoked pot almost every day for 35 years (jesus christ!) and like - am even proud of, despite my faults - who I am, who I've become, who I'm still becoming. I'm thankful for the life, and the quality of life, my husband (who also smokes) and I have made for ourselves.
Our home is full of love (as well as pot and incense smoke ), no kids but two cats who live a pretty comfortable life with us.
Aside from the mortgage on our condo - in what is considered a "nice area" - we have NO debt. My sweetie just paid off the loan on his Camaro two days ago. We have solid jobs, good work (and life) ethics, and the respect of our colleagues.
We've worked hard and responsibly for what we have.
Life lived peacefully, with forethought, compassion, smarts and humor. Not indulgent but afford what we choose to spend our extra income on. We know some whose paths diverged, but most of those in our little circle are similar.
This might be particular to weed, though. I can't imagine doing something like coke (or spending that kind of money) every day.
I don't know, maybe some of us are just...lucky? In circumstance, family...where another might've made the same initial choices but ended up somewhere far far from here.
The fact that we'll share a joint in the evenings, or have a bottomless bowl going on the weekends...small potatoes.
We've had good, strong foundations. Maybe that's the problem, or at least a big part of it.
Thirty, your last paragraph makes much sense...balance, guidance, solid examples of what a kid should shoot for as an adult.
For what it's worth - and I must acknowledge my parents' roles, despite their divorcing when I was in my early teens - believe it (the later life, that is) is dependent on the individual and the overall environment in which they're raised. I've smoked pot almost every day for 35 years (jesus christ!) and like - am even proud of, despite my faults - who I am, who I've become, who I'm still becoming. I'm thankful for the life, and the quality of life, my husband (who also smokes) and I have made for ourselves.
Our home is full of love (as well as pot and incense smoke ), no kids but two cats who live a pretty comfortable life with us.
Aside from the mortgage on our condo - in what is considered a "nice area" - we have NO debt. My sweetie just paid off the loan on his Camaro two days ago. We have solid jobs, good work (and life) ethics, and the respect of our colleagues.
We've worked hard and responsibly for what we have.
Life lived peacefully, with forethought, compassion, smarts and humor. Not indulgent but afford what we choose to spend our extra income on. We know some whose paths diverged, but most of those in our little circle are similar.
This might be particular to weed, though. I can't imagine doing something like coke (or spending that kind of money) every day.
I don't know, maybe some of us are just...lucky? In circumstance, family...where another might've made the same initial choices but ended up somewhere far far from here.
The fact that we'll share a joint in the evenings, or have a bottomless bowl going on the weekends...small potatoes.
We've had good, strong foundations. Maybe that's the problem, or at least a big part of it.
You describe something all should be happy with.
I'm not some fuddy duddy. I have a past too (that I don't wish to go too far into). I am not passing judgement on anyone for doing drugs. I am only saying I have witnessed firsthand young kids enter high school with some pretty big hopes and plans... only to have those go by the wayside as they gravitated to drugs. In many cases, the drugs became all consuming and knowing what the child was before drug use and what they became after drug use is heartbreaking.
Moderation is likely fine. And by having our schools take a definitive stance on drug use, we stand a better chance of encouraging moderation.
I know you're no square (actually laughed at my using that term). And I imagine your having children colors - though certainly not blinds - your vision of what you hope for them and probably by extension, others learning about life and the outcomes of their choices.
There's certainly a line between experimentation and it being all-encompassing.
Definitive stances, all for it. The zero-tolerance policy many schools have adopted? (not saying this discussion is about that but it fits here) - Apply common sense. To have baited someone over pot who it seems didn't know any better, vs someone who is selling serious shit...c'mon, police! Priorities.
In the 80s everyone was stoned,smelled like pot from the wake and bake,and we skipped class to surf,get high,have sex and eat Taco Viva(good times in deed).We were all good students and had all the parents/parent fooled.and with the exception of a few,we all came out as professionals,Successful Buisness people and leaders in community.Kinda scary really now that I think about it.
Yep. Same with us in the 90s. With the exception of the losers with criminal/violent tendencies or low IQs or horrible life circumstances or whatever (ie, factors not related directly to drug use), the stoners and partiers turned out as well as most people.
Not entirely true depending on what you perceive as 'well as most people'.
A buddy and I had this discussion a few weeks back and we reflected on all of the dopers of old that are still dopers- living life now as they did when they were 18... never truly amounting to anything. There are many we spoke of- some had completely lost it.
Now, don't get me wrong. Outside of those that lost their minds... maybe this is the way people should be: work just enough to feed and clothe yourself, pay your bills, get high everyday, and drunk on the weekends. There's certainly something remotely attractive for such a lifestyle; however, I think it is fair to say that... generally speaking... we'd like to see those closest to us strive for a little more.
I suppose... I personally think that people should live their lives in a way that makes them most happy. I'm sure there are people out there who really are happy and content living the way you described or any other way that doesn't conform to what society's idea of "success" is. And I actually think that's admirable, assuming the person isn't wishing they were living some other way. Hell, they could be living in a tent in the woods for all I care. I will respect their choice as long as they are content doing it. But that's really neither here nor there. The question is whether or not those people would be doing any better specifically because they didn't get stoned in school. I don't see any reason to assume that. Perhaps it's true... but I'd like to see some evidence.
Evidence would be hard to procure.
My gut tells me that some people fell in love with a lifestyle and before they knew it... much had passed them by. If drugs were not part of said people's pasts... I'm not inclined to think they'd be frittering away their days watching Judge Wapner as a substitute for pot. I am inclined to think they would have chosen a different path that led to a different and arguably a more productive and enjoyable lifestyle.
I'm not opposed to people smoking pot. I'm just saying it's hard for kids to maintain a balanced lifestyle. Left to their own choices... many kids would only eat Big Macs and pizza, smoke pot and drink, and never go to school. It's up to the adults to provide the appropriate context for them to understand the need for balance (as well as how to achieve balance). Schools are as good a place as any to help with this- especially considering the amount of kids that do not have the proper support and guidance at home.
But there are a LOT of people who lie around all day watching Judge Wapner and all the other judges and all those Food Network shows and are generally just do-nothings, lol. I'd be willing to bet that most of them actually didn't do drugs in high school rather than the other way around... Let's also remember that people who live pay cheque to pay cheque and like to party aren't automatically do-nothings who lie around watching TV all day.
Anyway, of course I agree with you about adults needing to guide children. Of course. My actual point was 1) just because kids party in high school doesn't mean they won't do well - I don't think there is a very strong connection there at all - and 2) cops have way better things they should be doing rather than busing kids who smoke pot.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In the 80s everyone was stoned,smelled like pot from the wake and bake,and we skipped class to surf,get high,have sex and eat Taco Viva(good times in deed).We were all good students and had all the parents/parent fooled.and with the exception of a few,we all came out as professionals,Successful Buisness people and leaders in community.Kinda scary really now that I think about it.
Yep. Same with us in the 90s. With the exception of the losers with criminal/violent tendencies or low IQs or horrible life circumstances or whatever (ie, factors not related directly to drug use), the stoners and partiers turned out as well as most people.
Not entirely true depending on what you perceive as 'well as most people'.
A buddy and I had this discussion a few weeks back and we reflected on all of the dopers of old that are still dopers- living life now as they did when they were 18... never truly amounting to anything. There are many we spoke of- some had completely lost it.
Now, don't get me wrong. Outside of those that lost their minds... maybe this is the way people should be: work just enough to feed and clothe yourself, pay your bills, get high everyday, and drunk on the weekends. There's certainly something remotely attractive for such a lifestyle; however, I think it is fair to say that... generally speaking... we'd like to see those closest to us strive for a little more.
I suppose... I personally think that people should live their lives in a way that makes them most happy. I'm sure there are people out there who really are happy and content living the way you described or any other way that doesn't conform to what society's idea of "success" is. And I actually think that's admirable, assuming the person isn't wishing they were living some other way. Hell, they could be living in a tent in the woods for all I care. I will respect their choice as long as they are content doing it. But that's really neither here nor there. The question is whether or not those people would be doing any better specifically because they didn't get stoned in school. I don't see any reason to assume that. Perhaps it's true... but I'd like to see some evidence.
Evidence would be hard to procure.
My gut tells me that some people fell in love with a lifestyle and before they knew it... much had passed them by. If drugs were not part of said people's pasts... I'm not inclined to think they'd be frittering away their days watching Judge Wapner as a substitute for pot. I am inclined to think they would have chosen a different path that led to a different and arguably a more productive and enjoyable lifestyle.
I'm not opposed to people smoking pot. I'm just saying it's hard for kids to maintain a balanced lifestyle. Left to their own choices... many kids would only eat Big Macs and pizza, smoke pot and drink, and never go to school. It's up to the adults to provide the appropriate context for them to understand the need for balance (as well as how to achieve balance). Schools are as good a place as any to help with this- especially considering the amount of kids that do not have the proper support and guidance at home.
But there are a LOT of people who lie around all day watching Judge Wapner and all the other judges and all those Food Network shows and are generally just do-nothings, lol. I'd be willing to bet that most of them actually didn't do drugs in high school rather than the other way around... Let's also remember that people who live pay cheque to pay cheque and like to party aren't automatically do-nothings who lie around watching TV all day.
Anyway, of course I agree with you about adults needing to guide children. Of course. My actual point was 1) just because kids party in high school doesn't mean they won't do well - I don't think there is a very strong connection there at all - and 2) cops have way better things they should be doing rather than busing kids who smoke pot.
We're not far off.
I just wish to clarify that I wasn't saying any group in particular would be (or is) more likely to sit around watching Judge Wapner. I was using Wapner as a hypothetical alternative activity to drug use (poorly as I re-read my submission).
And as much as I feel we might have digressed from the case presented by Chadwick... I also feel that this is the natural flow of the conversation. I think everyone here (including me after finally understanding the entire context of the case) agrees that this is an egregious case that should be under scrutiny- there is little debate over that.
I know you're no square (actually laughed at my using that term). And I imagine your having children colors - though certainly not blinds - your vision of what you hope for them and probably by extension, others learning about life and the outcomes of their choices.
There's certainly a line between experimentation and it being all-encompassing.
Definitive stances, all for it. The zero-tolerance policy many schools have adopted? (not saying this discussion is about that but it fits here) - Apply common sense. To have baited someone over pot who it seems didn't know any better, vs someone who is selling serious shit...c'mon, police! Priorities.
Comments
Schools try to promote as healthy environment as possible for kids: schools in our district do not have vending machines that sell pop or chips. Having the school institution also try and maintain a drug and alcohol free environment is not a bad thing. Schools do not suspend kids from school for drinking beer or smoking pot on the weekend- they only do when kids 'cross the line' and bring the party onto the learning environment.
I'm a little taken aback that some posters on here seem to imply that schools should relax their drug and alcohol policies so that kids won't get in trouble for smoking dope. I have already detailed why many feel drugs have no place inside of schools and I feel the reasons I offered are legitimate and should give enough cause for concern to support such a position.
Kids know the deal: if they choose to cross the line, then they have done so prepared to deal with the consequences if caught. We don't need to lower the bar every time kids get into trouble so that they won't get into trouble. I think we actually need to set standards so that kids learn to deal with such standards appropriately. Kids that wish to use drugs should do so off the school grounds... just as employees of a business should wait until after work at a more appropriate location with no responsibilities to do their drugs.
For the record, in our school system that is free of sting operations and police presence, a kid has to be extremely careless- or wreckless- to get caught.
I've learned from it too.
The sting, though, for pot? Just seemed such a waste of resources.
A buddy and I had this discussion a few weeks back and we reflected on all of the dopers of old that are still dopers- living life now as they did when they were 18... never truly amounting to anything. There are many we spoke of- some had completely lost it.
Now, don't get me wrong. Outside of those that lost their minds... maybe this is the way people should be: work just enough to feed and clothe yourself, pay your bills, get high everyday, and drunk on the weekends. There's certainly something remotely attractive for such a lifestyle; however, I think it is fair to say that... generally speaking... we'd like to see those closest to us strive for a little more.
A waste of resources and a serious misfire with regards to 'fighting crime'.
My gut tells me that some people fell in love with a lifestyle and before they knew it... much had passed them by. If drugs were not part of said people's pasts... I'm not inclined to think they'd be frittering away their days watching Judge Wapner as a substitute for pot. I am inclined to think they would have chosen a different path that led to a different and arguably a more productive and enjoyable lifestyle.
I'm not opposed to people smoking pot. I'm just saying it's hard for kids to maintain a balanced lifestyle. Left to their own choices... many kids would only eat Big Macs and pizza, smoke pot and drink, and never go to school. It's up to the adults to provide the appropriate context for them to understand the need for balance (as well as how to achieve balance). Schools are as good a place as any to help with this- especially considering the amount of kids that do not have the proper support and guidance at home.
For what it's worth - and I must acknowledge my parents' roles, despite their divorcing when I was in my early teens - believe it (the later life, that is) is dependent on the individual and the overall environment in which they're raised. I've smoked pot almost every day for 35 years (jesus christ!) and like - am even proud of, despite my faults - who I am, who I've become, who I'm still becoming. I'm thankful for the life, and the quality of life, my husband (who also smokes) and I have made for ourselves.
Our home is full of love (as well as pot and incense smoke
Aside from the mortgage on our condo - in what is considered a "nice area" - we have NO debt. My sweetie just paid off the loan on his Camaro two days ago. We have solid jobs, good work (and life) ethics, and the respect of our colleagues.
We've worked hard and responsibly for what we have.
Life lived peacefully, with forethought, compassion, smarts and humor. Not indulgent but afford what we choose to spend our extra income on. We know some whose paths diverged, but most of those in our little circle are similar.
This might be particular to weed, though. I can't imagine doing something like coke (or spending that kind of money) every day.
I don't know, maybe some of us are just...lucky? In circumstance, family...where another might've made the same initial choices but ended up somewhere far far from here.
The fact that we'll share a joint in the evenings, or have a bottomless bowl going on the weekends...small potatoes.
We've had good, strong foundations. Maybe that's the problem, or at least a big part of it.
I'm not some fuddy duddy. I have a past too (that I don't wish to go too far into). I am not passing judgement on anyone for doing drugs. I am only saying I have witnessed firsthand young kids enter high school with some pretty big hopes and plans... only to have those go by the wayside as they gravitated to drugs. In many cases, the drugs became all consuming and knowing what the child was before drug use and what they became after drug use is heartbreaking.
Moderation is likely fine. And by having our schools take a definitive stance on drug use, we stand a better chance of encouraging moderation.
There's certainly a line between experimentation and it being all-encompassing.
Definitive stances, all for it. The zero-tolerance policy many schools have adopted? (not saying this discussion is about that but it fits here) - Apply common sense. To have baited someone over pot who it seems didn't know any better, vs someone who is selling serious shit...c'mon, police! Priorities.
Anyway, of course I agree with you about adults needing to guide children. Of course. My actual point was 1) just because kids party in high school doesn't mean they won't do well - I don't think there is a very strong connection there at all - and 2) cops have way better things they should be doing rather than busing kids who smoke pot.
I just wish to clarify that I wasn't saying any group in particular would be (or is) more likely to sit around watching Judge Wapner. I was using Wapner as a hypothetical alternative activity to drug use (poorly as I re-read my submission).
And as much as I feel we might have digressed from the case presented by Chadwick... I also feel that this is the natural flow of the conversation. I think everyone here (including me after finally understanding the entire context of the case) agrees that this is an egregious case that should be under scrutiny- there is little debate over that.