Police abuse
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Yeah! You go Flo Rida!
Police officers jail their toddler for struggling with potty training
Two Florida parents who are both high-ranking police officers are under investigation after admitting to putting their 3-year-old in jail because he was struggling with potty training.
Lt. Michael Schoenbrod of the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department brought his son to jail on back-to-back days in October, placing him in handcuffs the second time, according to an interview captured on body-camera footage from a Volusia County sheriff’s deputy.
Schoenbrod told a caseworker at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) that his fearful toddler promised he would not soil himself again.
“He was crying,” Schoenbrod said, according to body-cam footage obtained by The Washington Post. “I was getting the response I expected from him.”
Schoenbrod also acknowledged in the interview that he had disciplined another son in a similar way when the boy was 4, saying that taking the child to jail for acting out in preschool was “effective.”
The incident was first reported Wednesday by the Daytona Beach News-Journal, raising questions about whether Schoenbrod and the child’s mother, Det. Sgt. Jessica Long, faced any discipline from the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department for placing the toddler in jail. The couple was told they were facing an internal professional standards investigation for their actions, but the findings of that inquiry have not been made public, the newspaper reported.
Schoenbrod, 45, and Long, 36, who live together, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Thursday morning. During the interview with the caseworker, Long called the investigation into their potty-training response “insane.” Schoenbrod agreed.
“It’s just disgusting that somebody would drag our family through the mud like this,” he said, according to body-cam footage.
Neither Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Director Michael Fowler nor Michael Lambert, the couple’s attorney, immediately responded to requests for comment. Fowler told the News-Journal this week that he had to consult with the city attorney before publicly commenting on the case.
Andrew Gant, a spokesman with the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed to The Washington Post the veracity of the hour-long body-cam footage, most of which features scrambled video. Gant said that “the only role the Sheriff’s Office had in this case was providing a law enforcement escort to a DCF investigator during their interview of the parties involved.”
DCF spokeswoman Tori Cuddy told The Post that “the department conducts investigations concerning all allegations of abuse, neglect or abandonment.” DCF “is working with law enforcement, and all other information regarding investigations is confidential,” Cuddy added.
After The Post obtained the body-cam video, Gant later said that he was “made aware of a court order restricting release of records in this case” and deleted the files with the footage.
Teaching a child to poop in a toilet has been a longtime source of frustration for parents. While many children show signs of being ready for potty training when they are between 18 months and 24 months old, some might not be ready until they are 3 years old, according to the Mayo Clinic. There’s also “no rush” in getting a child potty-trained, the academic medical center says.
“Let your child’s motivation, instead of your eagerness, lead the process,” Mayo Clinic staff wrote in “Potty training: How to get the job done.”
The group said that children’s caregivers should “keep in mind that accidents are inevitable and punishment has no role in the process.”
Schoenbrod told the caseworker that his child’s reaction to being punished by being placed in jail was what he had wanted.
“The whole time he was there, he was crying, he was upset,” Schoenbrod said. “There’s consequences for not following the rules.”
Schoenbrod said his child was just sitting in the jail, not handcuffed, and he denied that any poop was in the cell at the time. He said that whenever their son got in trouble, he and Long would take away the child’s four-wheeler and tablet.
Referring to potty-training his 3-year-old, Schoenbrod said: “Name something, I’ve tried it. When it comes to getting him to poop on the potty and discipline, I’ve tried it.”
In the footage, Schoenbrod recalled his teenage son and an experience from nine years earlier. When the older son was 4, Schoenbrod said, he admitted that he had hit a girl at preschool. In response, Schoenbrod took the boy to jail, where “daddy puts guys who hit girls.”
“I took him to the jail, and he sat there. And I watched him … and he was crying and everything, and to this day, if you mention that incident, he’s just like, ‘I would never do that again.’ It was effective. So that’s why I did it with [the younger son]. He didn’t hit anybody, but I figured the same thing — the discipline,” Schoenbrod said during the interview. “He didn’t want to go back” to jail.
At one point in the conversation with the caseworker, the couple referred to “Beyond Scared Straight,” the A&E series that profiled crime prevention programs aimed at deterring troubled teens from jail. They said their methods for potty training were nothing compared to what had been aired on television.
“I know we didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s just people getting it twisted,” Long said, according to body-cam footage. She added, “It’s just the definition of insanity.”
Schoenbrod praised his older son as an honor roll student. And he clarified that the 3-year-old son made good on his promise: He no longer had trouble pooping on the potty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/29/florida-potty-training-toddler-jail-officers/
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I wouldn't say this is abuse...Halifax2TheMax said:Yeah! You go Flo Rida!Police officers jail their toddler for struggling with potty training
Two Florida parents who are both high-ranking police officers are under investigation after admitting to putting their 3-year-old in jail because he was struggling with potty training.
Lt. Michael Schoenbrod of the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department brought his son to jail on back-to-back days in October, placing him in handcuffs the second time, according to an interview captured on body-camera footage from a Volusia County sheriff’s deputy.
Schoenbrod told a caseworker at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) that his fearful toddler promised he would not soil himself again.
“He was crying,” Schoenbrod said, according to body-cam footage obtained by The Washington Post. “I was getting the response I expected from him.”
Schoenbrod also acknowledged in the interview that he had disciplined another son in a similar way when the boy was 4, saying that taking the child to jail for acting out in preschool was “effective.”
The incident was first reported Wednesday by the Daytona Beach News-Journal, raising questions about whether Schoenbrod and the child’s mother, Det. Sgt. Jessica Long, faced any discipline from the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department for placing the toddler in jail. The couple was told they were facing an internal professional standards investigation for their actions, but the findings of that inquiry have not been made public, the newspaper reported.
Schoenbrod, 45, and Long, 36, who live together, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Thursday morning. During the interview with the caseworker, Long called the investigation into their potty-training response “insane.” Schoenbrod agreed.
“It’s just disgusting that somebody would drag our family through the mud like this,” he said, according to body-cam footage.
Neither Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Director Michael Fowler nor Michael Lambert, the couple’s attorney, immediately responded to requests for comment. Fowler told the News-Journal this week that he had to consult with the city attorney before publicly commenting on the case.
Andrew Gant, a spokesman with the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed to The Washington Post the veracity of the hour-long body-cam footage, most of which features scrambled video. Gant said that “the only role the Sheriff’s Office had in this case was providing a law enforcement escort to a DCF investigator during their interview of the parties involved.”
DCF spokeswoman Tori Cuddy told The Post that “the department conducts investigations concerning all allegations of abuse, neglect or abandonment.” DCF “is working with law enforcement, and all other information regarding investigations is confidential,” Cuddy added.
After The Post obtained the body-cam video, Gant later said that he was “made aware of a court order restricting release of records in this case” and deleted the files with the footage.
Teaching a child to poop in a toilet has been a longtime source of frustration for parents. While many children show signs of being ready for potty training when they are between 18 months and 24 months old, some might not be ready until they are 3 years old, according to the Mayo Clinic. There’s also “no rush” in getting a child potty-trained, the academic medical center says.
“Let your child’s motivation, instead of your eagerness, lead the process,” Mayo Clinic staff wrote in “Potty training: How to get the job done.”
The group said that children’s caregivers should “keep in mind that accidents are inevitable and punishment has no role in the process.”
Schoenbrod told the caseworker that his child’s reaction to being punished by being placed in jail was what he had wanted.
“The whole time he was there, he was crying, he was upset,” Schoenbrod said. “There’s consequences for not following the rules.”
Schoenbrod said his child was just sitting in the jail, not handcuffed, and he denied that any poop was in the cell at the time. He said that whenever their son got in trouble, he and Long would take away the child’s four-wheeler and tablet.
Referring to potty-training his 3-year-old, Schoenbrod said: “Name something, I’ve tried it. When it comes to getting him to poop on the potty and discipline, I’ve tried it.”
In the footage, Schoenbrod recalled his teenage son and an experience from nine years earlier. When the older son was 4, Schoenbrod said, he admitted that he had hit a girl at preschool. In response, Schoenbrod took the boy to jail, where “daddy puts guys who hit girls.”
“I took him to the jail, and he sat there. And I watched him … and he was crying and everything, and to this day, if you mention that incident, he’s just like, ‘I would never do that again.’ It was effective. So that’s why I did it with [the younger son]. He didn’t hit anybody, but I figured the same thing — the discipline,” Schoenbrod said during the interview. “He didn’t want to go back” to jail.
At one point in the conversation with the caseworker, the couple referred to “Beyond Scared Straight,” the A&E series that profiled crime prevention programs aimed at deterring troubled teens from jail. They said their methods for potty training were nothing compared to what had been aired on television.
“I know we didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s just people getting it twisted,” Long said, according to body-cam footage. She added, “It’s just the definition of insanity.”
Schoenbrod praised his older son as an honor roll student. And he clarified that the 3-year-old son made good on his promise: He no longer had trouble pooping on the potty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/29/florida-potty-training-toddler-jail-officers/
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Yea but it’s Florida. So, you knowtempo_n_groove said:
I wouldn't say this is abuse...Halifax2TheMax said:Yeah! You go Flo Rida!Police officers jail their toddler for struggling with potty training
Two Florida parents who are both high-ranking police officers are under investigation after admitting to putting their 3-year-old in jail because he was struggling with potty training.
Lt. Michael Schoenbrod of the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department brought his son to jail on back-to-back days in October, placing him in handcuffs the second time, according to an interview captured on body-camera footage from a Volusia County sheriff’s deputy.
Schoenbrod told a caseworker at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) that his fearful toddler promised he would not soil himself again.
“He was crying,” Schoenbrod said, according to body-cam footage obtained by The Washington Post. “I was getting the response I expected from him.”
Schoenbrod also acknowledged in the interview that he had disciplined another son in a similar way when the boy was 4, saying that taking the child to jail for acting out in preschool was “effective.”
The incident was first reported Wednesday by the Daytona Beach News-Journal, raising questions about whether Schoenbrod and the child’s mother, Det. Sgt. Jessica Long, faced any discipline from the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department for placing the toddler in jail. The couple was told they were facing an internal professional standards investigation for their actions, but the findings of that inquiry have not been made public, the newspaper reported.
Schoenbrod, 45, and Long, 36, who live together, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Thursday morning. During the interview with the caseworker, Long called the investigation into their potty-training response “insane.” Schoenbrod agreed.
“It’s just disgusting that somebody would drag our family through the mud like this,” he said, according to body-cam footage.
Neither Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Director Michael Fowler nor Michael Lambert, the couple’s attorney, immediately responded to requests for comment. Fowler told the News-Journal this week that he had to consult with the city attorney before publicly commenting on the case.
Andrew Gant, a spokesman with the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed to The Washington Post the veracity of the hour-long body-cam footage, most of which features scrambled video. Gant said that “the only role the Sheriff’s Office had in this case was providing a law enforcement escort to a DCF investigator during their interview of the parties involved.”
DCF spokeswoman Tori Cuddy told The Post that “the department conducts investigations concerning all allegations of abuse, neglect or abandonment.” DCF “is working with law enforcement, and all other information regarding investigations is confidential,” Cuddy added.
After The Post obtained the body-cam video, Gant later said that he was “made aware of a court order restricting release of records in this case” and deleted the files with the footage.
Teaching a child to poop in a toilet has been a longtime source of frustration for parents. While many children show signs of being ready for potty training when they are between 18 months and 24 months old, some might not be ready until they are 3 years old, according to the Mayo Clinic. There’s also “no rush” in getting a child potty-trained, the academic medical center says.
“Let your child’s motivation, instead of your eagerness, lead the process,” Mayo Clinic staff wrote in “Potty training: How to get the job done.”
The group said that children’s caregivers should “keep in mind that accidents are inevitable and punishment has no role in the process.”
Schoenbrod told the caseworker that his child’s reaction to being punished by being placed in jail was what he had wanted.
“The whole time he was there, he was crying, he was upset,” Schoenbrod said. “There’s consequences for not following the rules.”
Schoenbrod said his child was just sitting in the jail, not handcuffed, and he denied that any poop was in the cell at the time. He said that whenever their son got in trouble, he and Long would take away the child’s four-wheeler and tablet.
Referring to potty-training his 3-year-old, Schoenbrod said: “Name something, I’ve tried it. When it comes to getting him to poop on the potty and discipline, I’ve tried it.”
In the footage, Schoenbrod recalled his teenage son and an experience from nine years earlier. When the older son was 4, Schoenbrod said, he admitted that he had hit a girl at preschool. In response, Schoenbrod took the boy to jail, where “daddy puts guys who hit girls.”
“I took him to the jail, and he sat there. And I watched him … and he was crying and everything, and to this day, if you mention that incident, he’s just like, ‘I would never do that again.’ It was effective. So that’s why I did it with [the younger son]. He didn’t hit anybody, but I figured the same thing — the discipline,” Schoenbrod said during the interview. “He didn’t want to go back” to jail.
At one point in the conversation with the caseworker, the couple referred to “Beyond Scared Straight,” the A&E series that profiled crime prevention programs aimed at deterring troubled teens from jail. They said their methods for potty training were nothing compared to what had been aired on television.
“I know we didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s just people getting it twisted,” Long said, according to body-cam footage. She added, “It’s just the definition of insanity.”
Schoenbrod praised his older son as an honor roll student. And he clarified that the 3-year-old son made good on his promise: He no longer had trouble pooping on the potty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/29/florida-potty-training-toddler-jail-officers/
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IDK guys, putting handcuffs on a 3yo sure as shit sounds like abuse to me.nicknyr15 said:
Yea but it’s Florida. So, you knowtempo_n_groove said:
I wouldn't say this is abuse...Halifax2TheMax said:Yeah! You go Flo Rida!Police officers jail their toddler for struggling with potty training
Two Florida parents who are both high-ranking police officers are under investigation after admitting to putting their 3-year-old in jail because he was struggling with potty training.
Lt. Michael Schoenbrod of the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department brought his son to jail on back-to-back days in October, placing him in handcuffs the second time, according to an interview captured on body-camera footage from a Volusia County sheriff’s deputy.
Schoenbrod told a caseworker at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) that his fearful toddler promised he would not soil himself again.
“He was crying,” Schoenbrod said, according to body-cam footage obtained by The Washington Post. “I was getting the response I expected from him.”
Schoenbrod also acknowledged in the interview that he had disciplined another son in a similar way when the boy was 4, saying that taking the child to jail for acting out in preschool was “effective.”
The incident was first reported Wednesday by the Daytona Beach News-Journal, raising questions about whether Schoenbrod and the child’s mother, Det. Sgt. Jessica Long, faced any discipline from the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department for placing the toddler in jail. The couple was told they were facing an internal professional standards investigation for their actions, but the findings of that inquiry have not been made public, the newspaper reported.
Schoenbrod, 45, and Long, 36, who live together, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Thursday morning. During the interview with the caseworker, Long called the investigation into their potty-training response “insane.” Schoenbrod agreed.
“It’s just disgusting that somebody would drag our family through the mud like this,” he said, according to body-cam footage.
Neither Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Director Michael Fowler nor Michael Lambert, the couple’s attorney, immediately responded to requests for comment. Fowler told the News-Journal this week that he had to consult with the city attorney before publicly commenting on the case.
Andrew Gant, a spokesman with the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed to The Washington Post the veracity of the hour-long body-cam footage, most of which features scrambled video. Gant said that “the only role the Sheriff’s Office had in this case was providing a law enforcement escort to a DCF investigator during their interview of the parties involved.”
DCF spokeswoman Tori Cuddy told The Post that “the department conducts investigations concerning all allegations of abuse, neglect or abandonment.” DCF “is working with law enforcement, and all other information regarding investigations is confidential,” Cuddy added.
After The Post obtained the body-cam video, Gant later said that he was “made aware of a court order restricting release of records in this case” and deleted the files with the footage.
Teaching a child to poop in a toilet has been a longtime source of frustration for parents. While many children show signs of being ready for potty training when they are between 18 months and 24 months old, some might not be ready until they are 3 years old, according to the Mayo Clinic. There’s also “no rush” in getting a child potty-trained, the academic medical center says.
“Let your child’s motivation, instead of your eagerness, lead the process,” Mayo Clinic staff wrote in “Potty training: How to get the job done.”
The group said that children’s caregivers should “keep in mind that accidents are inevitable and punishment has no role in the process.”
Schoenbrod told the caseworker that his child’s reaction to being punished by being placed in jail was what he had wanted.
“The whole time he was there, he was crying, he was upset,” Schoenbrod said. “There’s consequences for not following the rules.”
Schoenbrod said his child was just sitting in the jail, not handcuffed, and he denied that any poop was in the cell at the time. He said that whenever their son got in trouble, he and Long would take away the child’s four-wheeler and tablet.
Referring to potty-training his 3-year-old, Schoenbrod said: “Name something, I’ve tried it. When it comes to getting him to poop on the potty and discipline, I’ve tried it.”
In the footage, Schoenbrod recalled his teenage son and an experience from nine years earlier. When the older son was 4, Schoenbrod said, he admitted that he had hit a girl at preschool. In response, Schoenbrod took the boy to jail, where “daddy puts guys who hit girls.”
“I took him to the jail, and he sat there. And I watched him … and he was crying and everything, and to this day, if you mention that incident, he’s just like, ‘I would never do that again.’ It was effective. So that’s why I did it with [the younger son]. He didn’t hit anybody, but I figured the same thing — the discipline,” Schoenbrod said during the interview. “He didn’t want to go back” to jail.
At one point in the conversation with the caseworker, the couple referred to “Beyond Scared Straight,” the A&E series that profiled crime prevention programs aimed at deterring troubled teens from jail. They said their methods for potty training were nothing compared to what had been aired on television.
“I know we didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s just people getting it twisted,” Long said, according to body-cam footage. She added, “It’s just the definition of insanity.”
Schoenbrod praised his older son as an honor roll student. And he clarified that the 3-year-old son made good on his promise: He no longer had trouble pooping on the potty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/29/florida-potty-training-toddler-jail-officers/
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Well then so is making them stand in a corner. He wasn't hurting his kid, it was for effect.Merkin Baller said:
IDK guys, putting handcuffs on a 3yo sure as shit sounds like abuse to me.nicknyr15 said:
Yea but it’s Florida. So, you knowtempo_n_groove said:
I wouldn't say this is abuse...Halifax2TheMax said:Yeah! You go Flo Rida!Police officers jail their toddler for struggling with potty training
Two Florida parents who are both high-ranking police officers are under investigation after admitting to putting their 3-year-old in jail because he was struggling with potty training.
Lt. Michael Schoenbrod of the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department brought his son to jail on back-to-back days in October, placing him in handcuffs the second time, according to an interview captured on body-camera footage from a Volusia County sheriff’s deputy.
Schoenbrod told a caseworker at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) that his fearful toddler promised he would not soil himself again.
“He was crying,” Schoenbrod said, according to body-cam footage obtained by The Washington Post. “I was getting the response I expected from him.”
Schoenbrod also acknowledged in the interview that he had disciplined another son in a similar way when the boy was 4, saying that taking the child to jail for acting out in preschool was “effective.”
The incident was first reported Wednesday by the Daytona Beach News-Journal, raising questions about whether Schoenbrod and the child’s mother, Det. Sgt. Jessica Long, faced any discipline from the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department for placing the toddler in jail. The couple was told they were facing an internal professional standards investigation for their actions, but the findings of that inquiry have not been made public, the newspaper reported.
Schoenbrod, 45, and Long, 36, who live together, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Thursday morning. During the interview with the caseworker, Long called the investigation into their potty-training response “insane.” Schoenbrod agreed.
“It’s just disgusting that somebody would drag our family through the mud like this,” he said, according to body-cam footage.
Neither Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Director Michael Fowler nor Michael Lambert, the couple’s attorney, immediately responded to requests for comment. Fowler told the News-Journal this week that he had to consult with the city attorney before publicly commenting on the case.
Andrew Gant, a spokesman with the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed to The Washington Post the veracity of the hour-long body-cam footage, most of which features scrambled video. Gant said that “the only role the Sheriff’s Office had in this case was providing a law enforcement escort to a DCF investigator during their interview of the parties involved.”
DCF spokeswoman Tori Cuddy told The Post that “the department conducts investigations concerning all allegations of abuse, neglect or abandonment.” DCF “is working with law enforcement, and all other information regarding investigations is confidential,” Cuddy added.
After The Post obtained the body-cam video, Gant later said that he was “made aware of a court order restricting release of records in this case” and deleted the files with the footage.
Teaching a child to poop in a toilet has been a longtime source of frustration for parents. While many children show signs of being ready for potty training when they are between 18 months and 24 months old, some might not be ready until they are 3 years old, according to the Mayo Clinic. There’s also “no rush” in getting a child potty-trained, the academic medical center says.
“Let your child’s motivation, instead of your eagerness, lead the process,” Mayo Clinic staff wrote in “Potty training: How to get the job done.”
The group said that children’s caregivers should “keep in mind that accidents are inevitable and punishment has no role in the process.”
Schoenbrod told the caseworker that his child’s reaction to being punished by being placed in jail was what he had wanted.
“The whole time he was there, he was crying, he was upset,” Schoenbrod said. “There’s consequences for not following the rules.”
Schoenbrod said his child was just sitting in the jail, not handcuffed, and he denied that any poop was in the cell at the time. He said that whenever their son got in trouble, he and Long would take away the child’s four-wheeler and tablet.
Referring to potty-training his 3-year-old, Schoenbrod said: “Name something, I’ve tried it. When it comes to getting him to poop on the potty and discipline, I’ve tried it.”
In the footage, Schoenbrod recalled his teenage son and an experience from nine years earlier. When the older son was 4, Schoenbrod said, he admitted that he had hit a girl at preschool. In response, Schoenbrod took the boy to jail, where “daddy puts guys who hit girls.”
“I took him to the jail, and he sat there. And I watched him … and he was crying and everything, and to this day, if you mention that incident, he’s just like, ‘I would never do that again.’ It was effective. So that’s why I did it with [the younger son]. He didn’t hit anybody, but I figured the same thing — the discipline,” Schoenbrod said during the interview. “He didn’t want to go back” to jail.
At one point in the conversation with the caseworker, the couple referred to “Beyond Scared Straight,” the A&E series that profiled crime prevention programs aimed at deterring troubled teens from jail. They said their methods for potty training were nothing compared to what had been aired on television.
“I know we didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s just people getting it twisted,” Long said, according to body-cam footage. She added, “It’s just the definition of insanity.”
Schoenbrod praised his older son as an honor roll student. And he clarified that the 3-year-old son made good on his promise: He no longer had trouble pooping on the potty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/29/florida-potty-training-toddler-jail-officers/
I'll say this then. Putting a needle in a childs arm is abuse. You are actually hurting them with that.
Scaring a kid whether it be halloween or just a prank would be abuse too.
We have to stop being overly sensitive to things. It was a teaching point while I think it was a bit much I do not see it as abuse.0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
Well then so is making them stand in a corner. He wasn't hurting his kid, it was for effect.Merkin Baller said:
IDK guys, putting handcuffs on a 3yo sure as shit sounds like abuse to me.nicknyr15 said:
Yea but it’s Florida. So, you knowtempo_n_groove said:
I wouldn't say this is abuse...Halifax2TheMax said:Yeah! You go Flo Rida!Police officers jail their toddler for struggling with potty training
Two Florida parents who are both high-ranking police officers are under investigation after admitting to putting their 3-year-old in jail because he was struggling with potty training.
Lt. Michael Schoenbrod of the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department brought his son to jail on back-to-back days in October, placing him in handcuffs the second time, according to an interview captured on body-camera footage from a Volusia County sheriff’s deputy.
Schoenbrod told a caseworker at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) that his fearful toddler promised he would not soil himself again.
“He was crying,” Schoenbrod said, according to body-cam footage obtained by The Washington Post. “I was getting the response I expected from him.”
Schoenbrod also acknowledged in the interview that he had disciplined another son in a similar way when the boy was 4, saying that taking the child to jail for acting out in preschool was “effective.”
The incident was first reported Wednesday by the Daytona Beach News-Journal, raising questions about whether Schoenbrod and the child’s mother, Det. Sgt. Jessica Long, faced any discipline from the Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Department for placing the toddler in jail. The couple was told they were facing an internal professional standards investigation for their actions, but the findings of that inquiry have not been made public, the newspaper reported.
Schoenbrod, 45, and Long, 36, who live together, did not immediately respond to a request for comment Thursday morning. During the interview with the caseworker, Long called the investigation into their potty-training response “insane.” Schoenbrod agreed.
“It’s just disgusting that somebody would drag our family through the mud like this,” he said, according to body-cam footage.
Neither Daytona Beach Shores Public Safety Director Michael Fowler nor Michael Lambert, the couple’s attorney, immediately responded to requests for comment. Fowler told the News-Journal this week that he had to consult with the city attorney before publicly commenting on the case.
Andrew Gant, a spokesman with the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed to The Washington Post the veracity of the hour-long body-cam footage, most of which features scrambled video. Gant said that “the only role the Sheriff’s Office had in this case was providing a law enforcement escort to a DCF investigator during their interview of the parties involved.”
DCF spokeswoman Tori Cuddy told The Post that “the department conducts investigations concerning all allegations of abuse, neglect or abandonment.” DCF “is working with law enforcement, and all other information regarding investigations is confidential,” Cuddy added.
After The Post obtained the body-cam video, Gant later said that he was “made aware of a court order restricting release of records in this case” and deleted the files with the footage.
Teaching a child to poop in a toilet has been a longtime source of frustration for parents. While many children show signs of being ready for potty training when they are between 18 months and 24 months old, some might not be ready until they are 3 years old, according to the Mayo Clinic. There’s also “no rush” in getting a child potty-trained, the academic medical center says.
“Let your child’s motivation, instead of your eagerness, lead the process,” Mayo Clinic staff wrote in “Potty training: How to get the job done.”
The group said that children’s caregivers should “keep in mind that accidents are inevitable and punishment has no role in the process.”
Schoenbrod told the caseworker that his child’s reaction to being punished by being placed in jail was what he had wanted.
“The whole time he was there, he was crying, he was upset,” Schoenbrod said. “There’s consequences for not following the rules.”
Schoenbrod said his child was just sitting in the jail, not handcuffed, and he denied that any poop was in the cell at the time. He said that whenever their son got in trouble, he and Long would take away the child’s four-wheeler and tablet.
Referring to potty-training his 3-year-old, Schoenbrod said: “Name something, I’ve tried it. When it comes to getting him to poop on the potty and discipline, I’ve tried it.”
In the footage, Schoenbrod recalled his teenage son and an experience from nine years earlier. When the older son was 4, Schoenbrod said, he admitted that he had hit a girl at preschool. In response, Schoenbrod took the boy to jail, where “daddy puts guys who hit girls.”
“I took him to the jail, and he sat there. And I watched him … and he was crying and everything, and to this day, if you mention that incident, he’s just like, ‘I would never do that again.’ It was effective. So that’s why I did it with [the younger son]. He didn’t hit anybody, but I figured the same thing — the discipline,” Schoenbrod said during the interview. “He didn’t want to go back” to jail.
At one point in the conversation with the caseworker, the couple referred to “Beyond Scared Straight,” the A&E series that profiled crime prevention programs aimed at deterring troubled teens from jail. They said their methods for potty training were nothing compared to what had been aired on television.
“I know we didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s just people getting it twisted,” Long said, according to body-cam footage. She added, “It’s just the definition of insanity.”
Schoenbrod praised his older son as an honor roll student. And he clarified that the 3-year-old son made good on his promise: He no longer had trouble pooping on the potty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/29/florida-potty-training-toddler-jail-officers/
I'll say this then. Putting a needle in a childs arm is abuse. You are actually hurting them with that.
Scaring a kid whether it be halloween or just a prank would be abuse too.
We have to stop being overly sensitive to things. It was a teaching point while I think it was a bit much I do not see it as abuse.
I'm going to go ahead and disagree that giving a 3 year old a vaccine is abuse akin to putting them in handcuffs.0 -
Good fucking lord.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Abuse is not just a physical thing.
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Damn wtf is going on in France? Is this what the entire world is coming to? Crazy.I don’t know how anyone did or does still condone this type of behavioral response to a police shooting. It’s just as disgusting as the original act. This will not change or help anything moving forward. Humans are just awful. Everywhere.Post edited by nicknyr15 on0
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That’s why i say if you ever get sat down for questioning request legal representation immediately. Interrogations are forms of mental and physical abuse.RunIntoTheRain said:Abuse is not just a physical thing.0 -
Can’t wait to hear what racebaiting kings Revrun’n Al Sharpton , Ben Crump, and those goofs over in the BLM camp have to say about this….nicknyr15 said:Damn wtf is going on in France? Is this what the entire world is coming to? Crazy.I don’t know how anyone did or does still condone this type of behavioral response to a police shooting. It’s just as disgusting as the original act. This will not change or help anything moving forward. Humans are just awful. Everywhere.
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They won’t say anything because it’s in France and they can’t capitalize financially from it. And isn’t BLM bankrupt?lindamarie73 said:
Can’t wait to hear what racebaiting kings Revrun’n Al Sharpton , Ben Crump, and those goofs over in the BLM camp have to say about this….nicknyr15 said:Damn wtf is going on in France? Is this what the entire world is coming to? Crazy.I don’t know how anyone did or does still condone this type of behavioral response to a police shooting. It’s just as disgusting as the original act. This will not change or help anything moving forward. Humans are just awful. Everywhere.0 -
Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.
Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Literally NO ONE said they were ok with what happened so stop with that bullshit. Are you ok with the mayhem that followed? Do you think that will help going forward?Halifax2TheMax said:Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
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What do you think the victims, at least the surviving victims' friends and families, should do when the "bullshit" never stops? Work through the legal system that offers no relief? What will it take to keep the fucking cops from executing people, playing judge, jury and executioner? In the absence of reforms that result in people not being killed on the streets by the police, yea, I'm okay with it. There are times when the "bullshit" is so forced fed that you can't swallow or breathe, and, unfortunately, the only way to get attention is to break shit. Maybe, just maybe, they've got the French political system's attention and they'll make some required changes. I'm guessing you can't relate? Just "another police shooting", eh?nicknyr15 said:
Literally NO ONE said they were ok with what happened so stop with that bullshit. Are you ok with the mayhem that followed? Do you think that will help going forward?Halifax2TheMax said:Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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No point in going any further here. Especially with your guessing I can’t relate comment. In your mind it’s one or the other. Both can’t be wrong. I’m sure free Nikes and Chanel bags are the answer to police reform in France. Love to see how you’d feel if your business was destroyed. Enjoy your 4th.Halifax2TheMax said:
What do you think the victims, at least the surviving victims' friends and families, should do when the "bullshit" never stops? Work through the legal system that offers no relief? What will it take to keep the fucking cops from executing people, playing judge, jury and executioner? In the absence of reforms that result in people not being killed on the streets by the police, yea, I'm okay with it. There are times when the "bullshit" is so forced fed that you can't swallow or breathe, and, unfortunately, the only way to get attention is to break shit. Maybe, just maybe, they've got the French political system's attention and they'll make some required changes. I'm guessing you can't relate? Just "another police shooting", eh?nicknyr15 said:
Literally NO ONE said they were ok with what happened so stop with that bullshit. Are you ok with the mayhem that followed? Do you think that will help going forward?Halifax2TheMax said:Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
Post edited by nicknyr15 on0 -
Nike and Chanel will be fine. Meanwhile, the kid is DEAD and his family and friends are missing somebody. Enjoy your 4th but don’t eat too many hotdogs.nicknyr15 said:
No point in going any further here. Especially with your guessing I can’t relate comment. In your mind it’s one or the other. Both can’t be wrong. I’m sure free Nikes and Chanel bags are the answer to police reform in France. Love to see how you’d feel if your business was destroyed. Enjoy your 4th.Halifax2TheMax said:
What do you think the victims, at least the surviving victims' friends and families, should do when the "bullshit" never stops? Work through the legal system that offers no relief? What will it take to keep the fucking cops from executing people, playing judge, jury and executioner? In the absence of reforms that result in people not being killed on the streets by the police, yea, I'm okay with it. There are times when the "bullshit" is so forced fed that you can't swallow or breathe, and, unfortunately, the only way to get attention is to break shit. Maybe, just maybe, they've got the French political system's attention and they'll make some required changes. I'm guessing you can't relate? Just "another police shooting", eh?nicknyr15 said:
Literally NO ONE said they were ok with what happened so stop with that bullshit. Are you ok with the mayhem that followed? Do you think that will help going forward?Halifax2TheMax said:Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
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You missed the point. Has nothing to do with money. You think the footage coming out of France helps the cause? You think it gets people on board? You think it makes police officers think differently? You think it even makes people want to become police officers at all? (Like them or not, we need police) eventually it becomes all about the rioting and less and less about the victim. Do you think peaceful protesting is completely ineffective at this point?Halifax2TheMax said:
Nike and Chanel will be fine. Meanwhile, the kid is DEAD and his family and friends are missing somebody. Enjoy your 4th but don’t eat too many hotdogs.nicknyr15 said:
No point in going any further here. Especially with your guessing I can’t relate comment. In your mind it’s one or the other. Both can’t be wrong. I’m sure free Nikes and Chanel bags are the answer to police reform in France. Love to see how you’d feel if your business was destroyed. Enjoy your 4th.Halifax2TheMax said:
What do you think the victims, at least the surviving victims' friends and families, should do when the "bullshit" never stops? Work through the legal system that offers no relief? What will it take to keep the fucking cops from executing people, playing judge, jury and executioner? In the absence of reforms that result in people not being killed on the streets by the police, yea, I'm okay with it. There are times when the "bullshit" is so forced fed that you can't swallow or breathe, and, unfortunately, the only way to get attention is to break shit. Maybe, just maybe, they've got the French political system's attention and they'll make some required changes. I'm guessing you can't relate? Just "another police shooting", eh?nicknyr15 said:
Literally NO ONE said they were ok with what happened so stop with that bullshit. Are you ok with the mayhem that followed? Do you think that will help going forward?Halifax2TheMax said:Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
Please stop acting like because I don’t condone these actions that I don’t care about police abuse. Both things can be bad.0 -
I think it wakes people up to the atrocities that happen and the injustices occurring. I think it can lead to necessary reforms, whether political or societal. You (general you) can only shit on people for so long where nothing changes before you get the response that you’re seeing. There is a very long and sordid history of how the “other” has been treated in France. What we’re seeing isn’t the result of the 17 year old being arrested and having his day in court. It’s the result of decades of oppression and abuse, and him being executed with a shot to the head. It seems you believe “if only the ‘other’ would peacefully protest everything will change and they’ll be fine” and that the influence and beliefs of the far right, Marie Lepen and her ilk, has no bearing. The “system”, as is, isn’t working for these people. What the government of France decides to do after this settles down is up to its government and essentially its citizens.nicknyr15 said:
You missed the point. Has nothing to do with money. You think the footage coming out of France helps the cause? You think it gets people on board? You think it makes police officers think differently? You think it even makes people want to become police officers at all? (Like them or not, we need police) eventually it becomes all about the rioting and less and less about the victim. Do you think peaceful protesting is completely ineffective at this point?Halifax2TheMax said:
Nike and Chanel will be fine. Meanwhile, the kid is DEAD and his family and friends are missing somebody. Enjoy your 4th but don’t eat too many hotdogs.nicknyr15 said:
No point in going any further here. Especially with your guessing I can’t relate comment. In your mind it’s one or the other. Both can’t be wrong. I’m sure free Nikes and Chanel bags are the answer to police reform in France. Love to see how you’d feel if your business was destroyed. Enjoy your 4th.Halifax2TheMax said:
What do you think the victims, at least the surviving victims' friends and families, should do when the "bullshit" never stops? Work through the legal system that offers no relief? What will it take to keep the fucking cops from executing people, playing judge, jury and executioner? In the absence of reforms that result in people not being killed on the streets by the police, yea, I'm okay with it. There are times when the "bullshit" is so forced fed that you can't swallow or breathe, and, unfortunately, the only way to get attention is to break shit. Maybe, just maybe, they've got the French political system's attention and they'll make some required changes. I'm guessing you can't relate? Just "another police shooting", eh?nicknyr15 said:
Literally NO ONE said they were ok with what happened so stop with that bullshit. Are you ok with the mayhem that followed? Do you think that will help going forward?Halifax2TheMax said:Nice to know that some are comfortable with summary executions by the police, regardless of where it happens. And the status quo.Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the death this week of the French teenager Nahel M in Nanterre is its familiarity. A man or boy of north African descent dies after contact with the police. A misleading or downright false account from officers casts blame on the victim. Outrage sparks protests and violence.
The unrest that has swept French cities speaks not to the shock of those involved, but their anger and despair that this is still happening. Not only police stations but schools, cars, tramways and town halls were attacked or torched in cities including Lille, Dijon, Lyon and Toulouse as well as the Paris suburbs. On Thursday, after Emmanuel Macron held a crisis cabinet meeting, 40,000 officers were deployed across the country.
Yet the contrast with 2005 – when the electrocution of two teenagers as they hid from police led to three weeks of riots – is also striking. The then interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, made remarks suggesting that the victims were thieves and ratcheted up tensions. This time, President Macron called the incident“inexplicable and inexcusable”. The officer responsible is under formal investigation for manslaughter. The most obvious difference is that these events were caught on phone camera and posted on social media – disproving the claim that the 17-year-old drove straight at police. Two officers are seen beside the stationary vehicle, one pointing a gun at the driver. The words: “You are going to get a bullet in the head,” are heard. The officer then appears to fire as the car drives forward.
For those in the banlieues, the footage is not a revelation but a confirmation. The anger is cumulative. They think not only of Nahel M but of Adama Traoré, who suffocated in police custody in 2016, or of Jean-Paul Benjamin, a father-of-two shot dead last year. Such cases are particularly potent because French law does not allow the collection of data on ethnicity, which would expose discrimination in other ways. As in other countries, the Black Lives Matter movement galvanised activism. People have spoken out at increasing volume. Yet they have not been heard.
There are particular concerns about legal changes six years ago, which critics warned broadened the standards for police use of firearms. A record 13 people died after not complying with a traffic stop in 2022. But the broader issue is aggressive policing techniques once used to control subject populations in colonies such as Algeria, and imported back to the homeland. They are evident in the handling of broader civil unrest, such as protests over pensions or by the gilets jaunes. But they are particularly toxic, and more often lethal, in the context of institutional racism, racial profiling and personal bigotry.
Economic grievances that were key to previous unrest appear less of a factor here than the rage at being ignored, excluded and discriminated against. Kylian Mbappé, the multimillionaire French football star who grew up in the French suburbs, tweeted: “I am hurting for my France.” The anger extends beyond police to other state institutions.
Many in the banlieues are afraid both for the safety of their children at the hands of police, and of the unrest. They are also concerned about how Marine Le Pen and the far right in general may exploit events. What they know is that things must change – and that it should not require another death, smartphone footage or mass unrest, to make it happen.
Please stop acting like because I don’t condone these actions that I don’t care about police abuse. Both things can be bad.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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theres a historical throughline here.....
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you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140
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