Police abuse
Comments
-
mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.
How is this not abuse? Police killed a person with 0 consequences. Again. How about the police are held accountable for their actions.
Holding the other guy accountable is not how the law works:The actions of the person (or entity) who owes you a duty must be sufficiently related to your injuries such that the law considers the person to have caused your injuries in a legal sense. If someone’s actions are a remote cause of your injury, they are not a proximate cause. However, if your injury would not have occurred “but for” the actions of another, then usually you can conclude there was proximate causation.
If not but for the actions of the police officer, Frazier would still be alive.0 -
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.
0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
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you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
The law/policy permits chasing a violent felon. This was robbery and a car jacking.CM189191 said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.
How is this not abuse? Police killed a person with 0 consequences. Again. How about the police are held accountable for their actions.
Holding the other guy accountable is not how the law works:The actions of the person (or entity) who owes you a duty must be sufficiently related to your injuries such that the law considers the person to have caused your injuries in a legal sense. If someone’s actions are a remote cause of your injury, they are not a proximate cause. However, if your injury would not have occurred “but for” the actions of another, then usually you can conclude there was proximate causation.
If not but for the actions of the police officer, Frazier would still be alive.
Your proximate cause is an argument to hold the robber accountable, not the police. If not for carjacking, robbing and fleeing, there would not have been a car crash. He was the one doing something wrong and illegal.
You don’t like police chases? Fine, advocate to abolish them. But car jacking and robbery fits the description of what is allowed to have a chase in this department.So let me ask, if policy allows a chase of a felon, what did this cop do wrong and how does he deserve to be punished/held accountable?
And maybe the policy should be updated. But I don’t agree with holding someone accountable for following policy.0 -
That’s fucking bananas. How could the outcomes possibly justify this?CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Arguing the situation is like saying Sully could have made it safely back to the airport.mickeyrat said:situational awareness should also cone into play in these casesnot knowing the complete circumstances of this particular chase, I will say that just because policy allowed an action does mean it should be acted upon in every single instance.location, time of day, usual traffic patterns, am I the only one giving chase. just a few of the considerations I would hope would be taken into account.case in point, several years ago local deputy initiates a chase. on a secondary artery. one that runs through 90% residential area. Lot of side streets and alleys. significant % of residents in that area are pedestrian or bicycle riders , as well as far to many kids. Mid day.....Deputy T-bones and kills a driver uninvolved in the chase , exercising right of way via light from a side street. Deputy was doing well over 100 mph.Situational awareness was lacking or ignored, cuz hot damn I got a chase. So given those facts in the moment, should that chase have occurred? Local PD had a 6 helicopter fleet then now down to 5. Dont recall if they were called in.
A chase can be argued that it shouldn't occur. Call in the helicopter, I'm all for that.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
If you want to pick apart what he should have done while in pursuit and having to make quick judgement decisions is where I have a problem with.
Don't give a cop the right to chase then. Ever.
It's like saying the cop can only give chase on the freeway on weekends when there isn't any traffic.Among those killed were:882 fleeing drivers337 fleeing vehicle passengers21 police officers765 bystanders (occupants of uninvolved vehicles or non-motorists)75 non-motorists (67 pedestrians, 5 bicyclists and 3 on another means of personal conveyance)0 -
Which is why I brought the Sully scenario into it.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
In hindsight its easy to pick apart is my thing with something like this.
If a cop could be held accountable for things on a broader scale, they would not be doing them.
I work with people all the time that do not want the responsibility whereas I do take it so that is why my answers are the way they are I would guess.0 -
mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.0 -
The one thing that sucks about policing is that whenever you arrest someone they usually aren't too thrilled about it. One way you can get back at the cops is to file a complaint.CM189191 said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.
If you do your job and arrest people then more and more people will be angry at you so more people complain.
The complaints are followed up usually with an investigation.
Is this or can this be abused? Absolutely. Both ways it can.
This is outside looking in. Give me more facts on the complaints though.0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
The one thing that sucks about policing is that whenever you arrest someone they usually aren't too thrilled about it. One way you can get back at the cops is to file a complaint.CM189191 said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.
If you do your job and arrest people then more and more people will be angry at you so more people complain.
The complaints are followed up usually with an investigation.
Is this or can this be abused? Absolutely. Both ways it can.
This is outside looking in. Give me more facts on the complaints though.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/12/15/the-bad-cops-how-minneapolis-protects-its-worst-police-officers-until-its-too-late/
1 in 5 people who try to file complaints about Minneapolis police had their cases classified as ‘inquiries’ – not counted and not investigated.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-hundreds-of-complaints-about-minneapolis-police-not-counted/89-81d6bf3b-8665-4349-9bd4-1cc5fdeecaa3
1925 complaints
~7700 'inquiries'
53 resulted in discipline
0.55% resulted in discipline
$35M estimated in large workers’ compensation settlements with Minneapolis police
https://www.fox9.com/news/35m-estimated-in-settlements-with-minneapolis-police-who-left-after-2020-unrest
Minneapolis police misconduct payouts top $70 million
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/minneapolis-police-misconduct-payouts-top-70-million/89-489d102d-43cc-457e-9f7f-2ce471ccd2d5
0 accountability.0 -
CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:
The one thing that sucks about policing is that whenever you arrest someone they usually aren't too thrilled about it. One way you can get back at the cops is to file a complaint.CM189191 said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.
If you do your job and arrest people then more and more people will be angry at you so more people complain.
The complaints are followed up usually with an investigation.
Is this or can this be abused? Absolutely. Both ways it can.
This is outside looking in. Give me more facts on the complaints though.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/12/15/the-bad-cops-how-minneapolis-protects-its-worst-police-officers-until-its-too-late/
1 in 5 people who try to file complaints about Minneapolis police had their cases classified as ‘inquiries’ – not counted and not investigated.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-hundreds-of-complaints-about-minneapolis-police-not-counted/89-81d6bf3b-8665-4349-9bd4-1cc5fdeecaa3
1925 complaints
~7700 'inquiries'
53 resulted in discipline
0.55% resulted in discipline
$35M estimated in large workers’ compensation settlements with Minneapolis police
https://www.fox9.com/news/35m-estimated-in-settlements-with-minneapolis-police-who-left-after-2020-unrest
Minneapolis police misconduct payouts top $70 million
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/minneapolis-police-misconduct-payouts-top-70-million/89-489d102d-43cc-457e-9f7f-2ce471ccd2d5
0 accountability.
sounds like consent decree time.....
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Very good articles.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:
The one thing that sucks about policing is that whenever you arrest someone they usually aren't too thrilled about it. One way you can get back at the cops is to file a complaint.CM189191 said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.
If you do your job and arrest people then more and more people will be angry at you so more people complain.
The complaints are followed up usually with an investigation.
Is this or can this be abused? Absolutely. Both ways it can.
This is outside looking in. Give me more facts on the complaints though.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/12/15/the-bad-cops-how-minneapolis-protects-its-worst-police-officers-until-its-too-late/
1 in 5 people who try to file complaints about Minneapolis police had their cases classified as ‘inquiries’ – not counted and not investigated.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-hundreds-of-complaints-about-minneapolis-police-not-counted/89-81d6bf3b-8665-4349-9bd4-1cc5fdeecaa3
1925 complaints
~7700 'inquiries'
53 resulted in discipline
0.55% resulted in discipline
$35M estimated in large workers’ compensation settlements with Minneapolis police
https://www.fox9.com/news/35m-estimated-in-settlements-with-minneapolis-police-who-left-after-2020-unrest
Minneapolis police misconduct payouts top $70 million
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/minneapolis-police-misconduct-payouts-top-70-million/89-489d102d-43cc-457e-9f7f-2ce471ccd2d5
0 accountability.
The 1 in 5 being investigated is a little disturbing. The whole Minnesota PD sounds like it needs a serious overhaul. Accountability is not their strong suit.
I still say that the crash wasn't abuse though.
CM is there a serious change in the MPD now?0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
Very good articles.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:
The one thing that sucks about policing is that whenever you arrest someone they usually aren't too thrilled about it. One way you can get back at the cops is to file a complaint.CM189191 said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.
If you do your job and arrest people then more and more people will be angry at you so more people complain.
The complaints are followed up usually with an investigation.
Is this or can this be abused? Absolutely. Both ways it can.
This is outside looking in. Give me more facts on the complaints though.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/12/15/the-bad-cops-how-minneapolis-protects-its-worst-police-officers-until-its-too-late/
1 in 5 people who try to file complaints about Minneapolis police had their cases classified as ‘inquiries’ – not counted and not investigated.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-hundreds-of-complaints-about-minneapolis-police-not-counted/89-81d6bf3b-8665-4349-9bd4-1cc5fdeecaa3
1925 complaints
~7700 'inquiries'
53 resulted in discipline
0.55% resulted in discipline
$35M estimated in large workers’ compensation settlements with Minneapolis police
https://www.fox9.com/news/35m-estimated-in-settlements-with-minneapolis-police-who-left-after-2020-unrest
Minneapolis police misconduct payouts top $70 million
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/minneapolis-police-misconduct-payouts-top-70-million/89-489d102d-43cc-457e-9f7f-2ce471ccd2d5
0 accountability.
The 1 in 5 being investigated is a little disturbing. The whole Minnesota PD sounds like it needs a serious overhaul. Accountability is not their strong suit.
I still say that the crash wasn't abuse though.
CM is there a serious change in the MPD now?
I doubt the MPD is unique here.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/06/30/with-citizenled-charter-change-minneapolis-city-council-withdraws-its-versionThe citizen charter amendment to create a new Department of Public Safety is expected to appear on voters' ballots in November.
In April, the Yes 4 Minneapolis coalition dropped off more than 20,000 signatures to the Minneapolis City Hall to get a measure on the ballot that would strike a section of the city’s charter that requires a police department be the only option for public safety.
baby steps I guess?
0 -
If i'm reading right then this is like what Baltimore did.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:
Very good articles.CM189191 said:tempo_n_groove said:
The one thing that sucks about policing is that whenever you arrest someone they usually aren't too thrilled about it. One way you can get back at the cops is to file a complaint.CM189191 said:mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
If the cops aren't allowed to use their judgement then take it away from them.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Suspects flee the scene running red lights because they are innocent?mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Even if you’re right, that still isn’t abuse.CM189191 said:
Just because something is legal, don't make it rightmace1229 said:
And according to the article, he was following policy on police chases.tempo_n_groove said:
The cop accidently crashed into him. What was the cop abusing? His driving? He was chasing down an armed robber.CM189191 said:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/abusetempo_n_groove said:
Not abuse.CM189191 said:Innocent man killed by Minneapolis police
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/innocent-man-killed-in-minneapolis-police-crash-idd-as-uncle-of-darnella-frazier
Leneal Frazier was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed George Floyd's arrest and his death outside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020.
1) to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
it's abuse
“The new policy stipulated that officers would no longer give chase over minor offenses, such was the risk inherent with pursuits. The new policy states that chase may only be given for "a serious and violent felony or gross misdemeanor."
I would think carjacking and robbery fits that. So I don’t see how one could argue following protocol to catch a violent criminal is abuse, even if it does end in tragedy. The robber should, and I assume will be, charged with his death.
Here's the intersection where it happened. Residential area.
Cop was reckless.
And with the few details I saw, I’m sticking with a car jacking and armed robbery, yeah go ahead as chase him. Let’s maybe blame the guy who did the robbery and car jacking on this one.excuse me, SUSPECTED car jack.likely was but reporting doesnt say they knew for a fact.
Sure.
Like above stated. Abolish the chases. Eye in the sky then road blacks and pit maneuvers when no one is around.
This still isn't abuse though.
is there a misconduct thread I am unaware of? even within policy this was misconduct.
Change the laws/procedures to reflect that.granted we hear little of when good judgement is exercised but come the fuck on. Better judgement based on bigger picture scenarios and the seeming tunnel vision we hear of all too often.These are fallible human beings. Prone to mistakes , just like the rest of us. We though, are more readily held accountable for lapses in judgement.With that badge comes ALOT of responsibility. Should come with an equitable amount of accountability.I respect the profession and their impossible at times position. that doesnt shield them from warranted criticism.
Cop had 12 previous complaints, but was never disciplined.
0 accountability.
If you do your job and arrest people then more and more people will be angry at you so more people complain.
The complaints are followed up usually with an investigation.
Is this or can this be abused? Absolutely. Both ways it can.
This is outside looking in. Give me more facts on the complaints though.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2020/12/15/the-bad-cops-how-minneapolis-protects-its-worst-police-officers-until-its-too-late/
1 in 5 people who try to file complaints about Minneapolis police had their cases classified as ‘inquiries’ – not counted and not investigated.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-hundreds-of-complaints-about-minneapolis-police-not-counted/89-81d6bf3b-8665-4349-9bd4-1cc5fdeecaa3
1925 complaints
~7700 'inquiries'
53 resulted in discipline
0.55% resulted in discipline
$35M estimated in large workers’ compensation settlements with Minneapolis police
https://www.fox9.com/news/35m-estimated-in-settlements-with-minneapolis-police-who-left-after-2020-unrest
Minneapolis police misconduct payouts top $70 million
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/minneapolis-police-misconduct-payouts-top-70-million/89-489d102d-43cc-457e-9f7f-2ce471ccd2d5
0 accountability.
The 1 in 5 being investigated is a little disturbing. The whole Minnesota PD sounds like it needs a serious overhaul. Accountability is not their strong suit.
I still say that the crash wasn't abuse though.
CM is there a serious change in the MPD now?
I doubt the MPD is unique here.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/06/30/with-citizenled-charter-change-minneapolis-city-council-withdraws-its-versionThe citizen charter amendment to create a new Department of Public Safety is expected to appear on voters' ballots in November.
In April, the Yes 4 Minneapolis coalition dropped off more than 20,000 signatures to the Minneapolis City Hall to get a measure on the ballot that would strike a section of the city’s charter that requires a police department be the only option for public safety.
baby steps I guess?
I'll say this that here in NY they had a "bail reform" bill that passed. It was meant to help keep the system from clogging up with misdemeanors and only hold violent criminals. Also to help out the ones whom couldn't make bail.
The people that are lifetime criminals make the news constantly because they get let out and go right back to it.
It is all part of the changing of policing so hopefully we figure it out.0 -
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/us/six-year-old-kidnapped-rescued-louisville-police/index.htmlIf ever there was a time for your gun to accidentally go off it would be now (after the child isn’t around). It’s never the scum of the earth though, it’s the black guy with the fake $20.0
-
https://wsvn.com/news/local/5-miami-beach-officers-charged-with-battery-in-rough-arrest/First - how fucking stupid do you have to be with phones and cameras around everywhere?
Second - what’s in your fucking head that says kick these people after they’re subdued?Is this mob mentality? This shit will never end
and don’t say because they may have hit a cop with a scooter that this is justified
once subdued it’s over!0 -
Definitely mob mentality. Do you really need 12 cops to take down the one guy?cblock4life said:https://wsvn.com/news/local/5-miami-beach-officers-charged-with-battery-in-rough-arrest/First - how fucking stupid do you have to be with phones and cameras around everywhere?
Second - what’s in your fucking head that says kick these people after they’re subdued?Is this mob mentality? This shit will never end
and don’t say because they may have hit a cop with a scooter that this is justified
once subdued it’s over!
Also the one cop that had his gun out. Did you see him hold it sideways gangster style? He should be kicked off the force for doing that alone...0 -
It’s a power trip. It comes out in the treatment of the guys recording it.tempo_n_groove said:
Definitely mob mentality. Do you really need 12 cops to take down the one guy?cblock4life said:https://wsvn.com/news/local/5-miami-beach-officers-charged-with-battery-in-rough-arrest/First - how fucking stupid do you have to be with phones and cameras around everywhere?
Second - what’s in your fucking head that says kick these people after they’re subdued?Is this mob mentality? This shit will never end
and don’t say because they may have hit a cop with a scooter that this is justified
once subdued it’s over!
Also the one cop that had his gun out. Did you see him hold it sideways gangster style? He should be kicked off the force for doing that alone...
They say that power corrupts. And we have over the decades decided to hand cops a lot of power. It’s not really about individual officers, but about the culture of absolute power. This video shows that when so many of them are acting like yes.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
I do know that if one gets hurt, shot at, punched, etc. they come en masse. That is a good thing in a way but overkill too.OnWis97 said:
It’s a power trip. It comes out in the treatment of the guys recording it.tempo_n_groove said:
Definitely mob mentality. Do you really need 12 cops to take down the one guy?cblock4life said:https://wsvn.com/news/local/5-miami-beach-officers-charged-with-battery-in-rough-arrest/First - how fucking stupid do you have to be with phones and cameras around everywhere?
Second - what’s in your fucking head that says kick these people after they’re subdued?Is this mob mentality? This shit will never end
and don’t say because they may have hit a cop with a scooter that this is justified
once subdued it’s over!
Also the one cop that had his gun out. Did you see him hold it sideways gangster style? He should be kicked off the force for doing that alone...
They say that power corrupts. And we have over the decades decided to hand cops a lot of power. It’s not really about individual officers, but about the culture of absolute power. This video shows that when so many of them are acting like yes.0 -
Why are people abusing the police?Give Peas A Chance…0
-
US to probe Phoenix police over excessive force allegationsBy MICHAEL BALSAMO and BOB CHRISTIE1 hour ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department on Thursday said it was launching a widespread probe into the police force in Phoenix to examine whether officers have been using excessive force and abusing people experiencing homelessness.
The investigation into the City of Phoenix and the Phoenix Police Department is the third sweeping civil investigation into a law enforcement agency brought by the Justice Department in the Biden administration and comes as the department has worked to shift its priorities to focus on policing and civil rights. Few such investigations were opened during the Trump administration.
Attorney General Merrick Garland said the probe will also examine whether police have engaged in discriminatory policing practices and will work to determine if officers have retaliated against people engaged in protected First Amendment activities.
In June, the top prosecutor in Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix, permanently dismissed charges that included gang allegations against more than a dozen people arrested at an October 2020 protest against police brutality.
The move came amid complaints from civil rights advocates that Phoenix police and prosecutors were pursuing gang charges as part of abusive political prosecutions intended to silence dissent and scare protesters.
Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego, a Democrat, hailed the Justice Department investigation and said it will help with ongoing police reform measures she has been pushing since taking office in 2019.
“Public safety reform is an ongoing process in Phoenix, and now, with the help of the USDOJ, this robust program will continue,” Gallego said in a statement.
The city also plans to start a new program this year to respond to mental health calls by placing behavioral health professionals in the field. The city also has a new office of police accountability that is charged with independently investigating allegations of wrongdoing by officers.
That office may be hamstrung, however, by a new state law signed by Republican Gov. Doug Ducey that limits civilian review boards like the one Phoenix has set up.
City Councilman Sal DiCiccio, a frequent defender of Phoenix police, said the department ”has been under extreme attack by activists bent on defunding the police.”
“I welcome another set of eyes to see what we already know: that we have a department staffed by dedicated individuals who go to great lengths to protect our community, and do so honorably and fairly,” he said in a statement.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona, which has sued Phoenix police in the past for actions against protesters, said the investigation was needed to force the department to change.
“This is not a case of a few bad apples – Phoenix PD has deep-rooted, systemic problems with the way it treats community members,” Victoria Lopez, the group's advocacy and legal director, said in a statement.
Part of the investigation will also examine whether police officers have been violating the rights of people who are experiencing homelessness by “seizing and disposing of their belongings in a manner that violates the Constitution,” Garland said.
The new investigation is known as a “pattern or practice” — examining whether there is a pattern or practice of unconstitutional or unlawful policing — and is generally is a sweeping review of the entire police department.
In announcing the probe, Garland also pointed to what he described as “straining the policing profession by turning to law enforcement to address a wide array of social problems.”
“Too often we asked law enforcement officers to be the first and last option for addressing issues that should not be handled by our criminal justice system," he said "This makes police officers' jobs more difficult, increases unnecessary confrontations with law enforcement and hinders public safety.”
Assistant Attorney General Kristen Clarke said investigators will meet with police officers and supervisors, review body camera video, along with training materials and other records. She said the Justice Department spoke with Phoenix city officials and they had expressed support for the probe.
“Protecting the rule of law demands that those who enforce our laws also abide by them,” Clarke said.
The Justice Department had reviewed an array of publicly available information, including lawsuits and news reports before it decided to open the Phoenix investigation, Clarke said.
The police force has come under fire in recent years for its handling of protests and the high number of shootings. One lawsuit alleged that police and prosecutors colluded to target protesters during a demonstration last summer. In February, a local television station reported that a team of police officers had celebrated shooting a protester in the groin during another protest with commemorative coins they would share.
“We found that the evidence here warrants a full investigation, but we approach this process with no predispositions or pre-drawn conclusions,” Clarke said.
Phoenix Police Chief Jeri Williams defended the department and the reforms it has made in recent years at a news briefing. But she said she is open to any Justice Department recommendations.
continues....
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140
This discussion has been closed.
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