Today, for the first time ever, the people of Scotland were given an opportunity to choose whether they wanted Scotland to become an independent country.
I voted Yes. Proudest day of my life.
Thank you to all those who fought so hard to make this day possible.
Soooooo, does the US get involved now and play world police and free all Scots? When does that war start? I kid, but yes, Scotland should be free. Just like every country deserves to be.
Very sad today but strangely resolute to carry the fight forward,
On the No side stood big business, the coalition government, Labour, the BBC, and every single British newspaper with the exception of the Sunday Herald. All of them stood shoulder to shoulder with the sectarian bigots of the orange order,, the racist fascist BNP, EDL and SDL, and the xenophobic UKIP.
All of the above combined against the Yes side comprised of Scottish nationalists, Socialists, the Green Party and countless grass roots activists campaigning for a fairer, more just and socially inclusive Scotland. Anti-Austerity, anti-nuclear, pro immigration.
.....and we almost fucking did it!
The fight continues and we only need to win once :-)
I'm sorry for those of you in Scotland who voted "Yes". I know that this was a major moment in your history and a "No" vote must have been a huge letdown.
Having said that, I'm very interested to know what's next for Scotland? With the No side earning a narrow victory, what do Scots want from the rest of the UK? It seems that even the No side wants to see changes. Are we talking about a move towards federalism or something different? I don't know that much about UK politics but it would seem to me that England is far too large relative to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Is it possible that England could be broken into smaller regions (states) in order to give other parts of the UK a clearer voice?
How does Scotland fit into the rest of the United Kingdom after a referendum like this?
Very sad today but strangely resolute to carry the fight forward,
On the No side stood big business, the coalition government, Labour, the BBC, and every single British newspaper with the exception of the Sunday Herald. All of them stood shoulder to shoulder with the sectarian bigots of the orange order,, the racist fascist BNP, EDL and SDL, and the xenophobic UKIP.
All of the above combined against the Yes side comprised of Scottish nationalists, Socialists, the Green Party and countless grass roots activists campaigning for a fairer, more just and socially inclusive Scotland. Anti-Austerity, anti-nuclear, pro immigration.
.....and we almost fucking did it!
The fight continues and we only need to win once :-)
Man, I so fucken wish u guys got your freedom. That sux man. How can people vote no? Answer, they DIDNT! Big business DID, and what a fucken shocker. Straight bullshit! Keep trying and just like you said, it only takes ONCE! Make it happen Scotland! You deserve to make your own decisions and live free!
Soooooo, does the US get involved now and play world police and free all Scots? When does that war start? I kid, but yes, Scotland should be free. Just like every country deserves to be.
Only if the majority wants to be....
But i do feel some empathy for those who really cared and voted yes. That's gotta be depressing.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I thought that this morning when I woke up that the sadness I felt yesterday morning after hearing the result would have faded, but it hasn't and to be honest I also feel slightly angry.
I'm not angry at the those who voted no, it was their democratic right. I feel angry at all the banks, businesses and Westminster politicians who bullied and scared people into a no vote. And at the latter for making (probably false) last minute promises of swift further devolution to Scotland.
I feel sad that we have missed the opportunity to become a more fair and just society. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in the UK if not Europe, but I see children being brought up in poverty every day. It was however a victory for democracy, a 85% turnout is truly amazing. Also 16 year olds getting to vote was a real success.
I think that some form of federalism would be the fairest way forward for England and hope that something like this will be possible for them. However, in my heart Scotland is a seperate country, I will always back independence and do not wish to be part of a UK federalist state.
Hey hey m'lovely, Glasgow yes voter here and it was utterly awful to see things unfold in my city last night and they're at it again with their marches today. However it's massively important to separate the actions of these thugs from the average no voter and especially on an international forum remind or let folks know that this ugly element of Scotland is an entrenched tradition here on the West Coast. Hiding behind religion and football, these utter arseholes are the product of secterianism. It's important to note in days gone by these scenes could have just as easily, and have happened at 'old firm' games (Rangers & Celtic football/soccer teams) or any of the orange order matches my city has the misfortune to host. There moronoic violent tendencies are never far from the surface, regardless of their excuse to exercise them. The majority of yes voters aren't villifyng those who voted no, this isn't their fault. We can't respond to hate with hate.
Being Glasgow however....we can respond with humour.
I thought that this morning when I woke up that the sadness I felt yesterday morning after hearing the result would have faded, but it hasn't and to be honest I also feel slightly angry.
I'm not angry at the those who voted no, it was their democratic right. I feel angry at all the banks, businesses and Westminster politicians who bullied and scared people into a no vote. And at the latter for making (probably false) last minute promises of swift further devolution to Scotland.
I feel sad that we have missed the opportunity to become a more fair and just society. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in the UK if not Europe, but I see children being brought up in poverty every day. It was however a victory for democracy, a 85% turnout is truly amazing. Also 16 year olds getting to vote was a real success.
I think that some form of federalism would be the fairest way forward for England and hope that something like this will be possible for them. However, in my heart Scotland is a seperate country, I will always back independence and do not wish to be part of a UK federalist state.
I will always be part of the 45%.
And you should be sad. Can't imagine any country who WOULDNT want to be FREE. Scam, that's all democracy is.
I thought that this morning when I woke up that the sadness I felt yesterday morning after hearing the result would have faded, but it hasn't and to be honest I also feel slightly angry.
I'm not angry at the those who voted no, it was their democratic right. I feel angry at all the banks, businesses and Westminster politicians who bullied and scared people into a no vote. And at the latter for making (probably false) last minute promises of swift further devolution to Scotland.
I feel sad that we have missed the opportunity to become a more fair and just society. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in the UK if not Europe, but I see children being brought up in poverty every day. It was however a victory for democracy, a 85% turnout is truly amazing. Also 16 year olds getting to vote was a real success.
I think that some form of federalism would be the fairest way forward for England and hope that something like this will be possible for them. However, in my heart Scotland is a seperate country, I will always back independence and do not wish to be part of a UK federalist state.
I will always be part of the 45%.
And you should be sad. Can't imagine any country who WOULDNT want to be FREE. Scam, that's all democracy is.
In fairness, I don't think it's right to claim democracy is a scam simply because the No side prevailed. I certainly think it's a disappointing blow for those Scots that wanted independence but let's not pretend that the result was some sort of injustice. When the Scots are ready they will inevitably choose their independence.
I thought that this morning when I woke up that the sadness I felt yesterday morning after hearing the result would have faded, but it hasn't and to be honest I also feel slightly angry.
I'm not angry at the those who voted no, it was their democratic right. I feel angry at all the banks, businesses and Westminster politicians who bullied and scared people into a no vote. And at the latter for making (probably false) last minute promises of swift further devolution to Scotland.
I feel sad that we have missed the opportunity to become a more fair and just society. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in the UK if not Europe, but I see children being brought up in poverty every day. It was however a victory for democracy, a 85% turnout is truly amazing. Also 16 year olds getting to vote was a real success.
I think that some form of federalism would be the fairest way forward for England and hope that something like this will be possible for them. However, in my heart Scotland is a seperate country, I will always back independence and do not wish to be part of a UK federalist state.
I will always be part of the 45%.
And you should be sad. Can't imagine any country who WOULDNT want to be FREE. Scam, that's all democracy is.
In fairness, I don't think it's right to claim democracy is a scam simply because the No side prevailed. I certainly think it's a disappointing blow for those Scots that wanted independence but let's not pretend that the result was some sort of injustice. When the Scots are ready they will inevitably choose their independence.
Democracy is a scam. Just look at how it's portrayed in the US. Wasn't just referring to Scotland and the vote. I'm talking democracy in general. Even look at the democracy in Israel.
ive voted no and delighted we won.the vast majority are not extreme right wingers that seems to be getting potrayed and some of the behaviour of the yes side wasn't exactly angelic either.im Scottish and my wife is English and together we are british and if people have an issue that's there problem not mine.
Look at how much misery and havoc so called democracy is creating all around the world. Sorry, but it's not working. Mite have to try something new or maybe try some "REAL" democracy.
Many of the alternatives cause misery and havoc as well. However, I'll certainly grant you that democracy isn't being well implemented in many areas, or in fact implemented at all. Much still depends on the willingness of the population to both educate themselves and vote, and we can all see how that's going.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Why did they let 16 year olds vote? I wonder how well that would work in the US. How often can this be brought to vote? Was the last try for independence in 1979?
Look at how much misery and havoc so called democracy is creating all around the world. Sorry, but it's not working. Mite have to try something new or maybe try some "REAL" democracy.
I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Democracy is far from perfect, but when compared to the alternatives democracy isn't the disaster you're proclaiming it to be. And if we're being honest here, I would hardly use the United States as a shining example of an ideal democracy. Having some voice, no matter how small is far better than having none whatsoever.
The outcome in Scotland may not have been to everyone's liking but it is a great example of democracy in action. Scotland nearly found its independence; not at the tip of a sword or the barrel of a gun but at the ballot box. To me that's a pretty impressive feat. While many Scots are undoubtedly disappointed, how many people in Scotland woke up on September 20th feeling afraid for their lives because they went out to vote?
I would much rather live in a democratic state than any of the other alternatives currently available to us.
Look at how much misery and havoc so called democracy is creating all around the world. Sorry, but it's not working. Mite have to try something new or maybe try some "REAL" democracy.
I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Democracy is far from perfect, but when compared to the alternatives democracy isn't the disaster you're proclaiming it to be. And if we're being honest here, I would hardly use the United States as a shining example of an ideal democracy. Having some voice, no matter how small is far better than having none whatsoever.
The outcome in Scotland may not have been to everyone's liking but it is a great example of democracy in action. Scotland nearly found its independence; not at the tip of a sword or the barrel of a gun but at the ballot box. To me that's a pretty impressive feat. While many Scots are undoubtedly disappointed, how many people in Scotland woke up on September 20th feeling afraid for their lives because they went out to vote?
I would much rather live in a democratic state than any of the other alternatives currently available to us.
How is Scotland a great example of democracy with big business control it just like in the Great US? Sorry, but democracy is a scam. That's how I feel and a lot if others. Look at ferguson and that form of American democracy. We don't have to agree. But to think democracy is some great beacon of hope, it is NOT.
Edit-and just to add, the Palestinians chose democracy and VOTED in members of Hamas to which the worlds leading democratic country (USA) and the middle easts so called beacon of democracy (Israel) chose to ignore that form of democracy when it came to the Palestinians. See, a total SCAM.
Look at how much misery and havoc so called democracy is creating all around the world. Sorry, but it's not working. Mite have to try something new or maybe try some "REAL" democracy.
I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Democracy is far from perfect, but when compared to the alternatives democracy isn't the disaster you're proclaiming it to be. And if we're being honest here, I would hardly use the United States as a shining example of an ideal democracy. Having some voice, no matter how small is far better than having none whatsoever.
The outcome in Scotland may not have been to everyone's liking but it is a great example of democracy in action. Scotland nearly found its independence; not at the tip of a sword or the barrel of a gun but at the ballot box. To me that's a pretty impressive feat. While many Scots are undoubtedly disappointed, how many people in Scotland woke up on September 20th feeling afraid for their lives because they went out to vote?
I would much rather live in a democratic state than any of the other alternatives currently available to us.
How is Scotland a great example of democracy with big business control it just like in the Great US? Sorry, but democracy is a scam. That's how I feel and a lot if others. Look at ferguson and that form of American democracy. We don't have to agree. But to think democracy is some great beacon of hope, it is NOT.
Edit-and just to add, the Palestinians chose democracy and VOTED in members of Hamas to which the worlds leading democratic country (USA) and the middle easts so called beacon of democracy (Israel) chose to ignore that form of democracy when it came to the Palestinians. See, a total SCAM.
Just because you dislike the outcome of an election doesn't make it a scam. An 85% turnout in any election is incredible when voting wasn't mandatory. There was no corruption here. Yes, big business voiced their opinion but it was the people of Scotland who went to the polls, not Lloyds, the BBC or RBS. Let's face it; in many countries an election on a topic such as this wouldn't have happened in the first place. You may dislike the results, but to think that the democratic process is a scam is ridiculous. You're completely dismissing the 55% of Scottish voters simply because you disagree with their decision.
As for Palestine; I support Hamas' right to rule as a duly elected government. Israel running interference in Palestine is an illegal act that has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy. The same thing can be said for the United States and its unending quest for cheap oil. Personally I like the fact that I live in a society where I can openly voice my opinion, share my grievances publicly and cast a ballot when I disapprove of the way things are being done without fear of reprisal. It isn't perfect but I don't see a better alternative.
For a person who has such distain for the democratic process, what would you propose in its place?
Badbrains, I have no doubt that the 55% who voted No in Scotland were influenced by statements in the media from the banks and corporations, but they had the right to make their decisions based on what banks and industry intended to do if Scotland voted to leave. The truth is, there would have been significant consequences for the Scottish people and each one of them had to decide whether they wanted those consequences or not. The majority chose not, which makes it disappointing for the Yes side but not invalid.
So in closing, Haults Maul (sorry - couldn't resist - that's so fun to say)
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Badbrains, I have no doubt that the 55% who voted No in Scotland were influenced by statements in the media from the banks and corporations, but they had the right to make their decisions based on what banks and industry intended to do if Scotland voted to leave. The truth is, there would have been significant consequences for the Scottish people and each one of them had to decide whether they wanted those consequences or not. The majority chose not, which makes it disappointing for the Yes side but not invalid.
So in closing, Haults Maul (sorry - couldn't resist - that's so fun to say)
Halts maul!!!! Damn it!!! Lol. I'll be honest, not up to par on the Scotland vote. I just support anyone who feels they want to be free. And honestly, I don't understand why anyone would chose not to be free. And on that note, HALTS MAUL FREEDOM!!!
Look at how much misery and havoc so called democracy is creating all around the world. Sorry, but it's not working. Mite have to try something new or maybe try some "REAL" democracy.
I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Democracy is far from perfect, but when compared to the alternatives democracy isn't the disaster you're proclaiming it to be. And if we're being honest here, I would hardly use the United States as a shining example of an ideal democracy. Having some voice, no matter how small is far better than having none whatsoever.
The outcome in Scotland may not have been to everyone's liking but it is a great example of democracy in action. Scotland nearly found its independence; not at the tip of a sword or the barrel of a gun but at the ballot box. To me that's a pretty impressive feat. While many Scots are undoubtedly disappointed, how many people in Scotland woke up on September 20th feeling afraid for their lives because they went out to vote?
I would much rather live in a democratic state than any of the other alternatives currently available to us.
How is Scotland a great example of democracy with big business control it just like in the Great US? Sorry, but democracy is a scam. That's how I feel and a lot if others. Look at ferguson and that form of American democracy. We don't have to agree. But to think democracy is some great beacon of hope, it is NOT.
Edit-and just to add, the Palestinians chose democracy and VOTED in members of Hamas to which the worlds leading democratic country (USA) and the middle easts so called beacon of democracy (Israel) chose to ignore that form of democracy when it came to the Palestinians. See, a total SCAM.
Just because you dislike the outcome of an election doesn't make it a scam. An 85% turnout in any election is incredible when voting wasn't mandatory. There was no corruption here. Yes, big business voiced their opinion but it was the people of Scotland who went to the polls, not Lloyds, the BBC or RBS. Let's face it; in many countries an election on a topic such as this wouldn't have happened in the first place. You may dislike the results, but to think that the democratic process is a scam is ridiculous. You're completely dismissing the 55% of Scottish voters simply because you disagree with their decision.
As for Palestine; I support Hamas' right to rule as a duly elected government. Israel running interference in Palestine is an illegal act that has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy. The same thing can be said for the United States and its unending quest for cheap oil. Personally I like the fact that I live in a society where I can openly voice my opinion, share my grievances publicly and cast a ballot when I disapprove of the way things are being done without fear of reprisal. It isn't perfect but I don't see a better alternative.
For a person who has such distain for the democratic process, what would you propose in its place?
How about REAL TRUE democracy. I think I'll take that over ANYTHING. The original forefathers had their shit together. This so called whatever government we have, whatever it's morphed into throughout the decades, isn't real democracy. I'm not arguing with you because I too love this country no doubt. The people (most) are awesome and what freedoms we do have is great. But it's starting to get costly.
I thought that this morning when I woke up that the sadness I felt yesterday morning after hearing the result would have faded, but it hasn't and to be honest I also feel slightly angry.
I'm not angry at the those who voted no, it was their democratic right. I feel angry at all the banks, businesses and Westminster politicians who bullied and scared people into a no vote. And at the latter for making (probably false) last minute promises of swift further devolution to Scotland.
I feel sad that we have missed the opportunity to become a more fair and just society. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in the UK if not Europe, but I see children being brought up in poverty every day. It was however a victory for democracy, a 85% turnout is truly amazing. Also 16 year olds getting to vote was a real success.
I think that some form of federalism would be the fairest way forward for England and hope that something like this will be possible for them. However, in my heart Scotland is a seperate country, I will always back independence and do not wish to be part of a UK federalist state.
I will always be part of the 45%.
Most people see the same thing in their wealthy city and they live in independent nations. I live in a city that is both one of the wealthiest and supposedly most liveable, and also has the most impoverished concentrated neighborhood in North America smack dab in the middle of it. I am sorry you're so disappointed, but if it makes you feel any better, independence probably would have done absolutely nothing to solve some of the problems you seem concerned about.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Badbrains, I have no doubt that the 55% who voted No in Scotland were influenced by statements in the media from the banks and corporations, but they had the right to make their decisions based on what banks and industry intended to do if Scotland voted to leave. The truth is, there would have been significant consequences for the Scottish people and each one of them had to decide whether they wanted those consequences or not. The majority chose not, which makes it disappointing for the Yes side but not invalid.
So in closing, Haults Maul (sorry - couldn't resist - that's so fun to say)
Halts maul!!!! Damn it!!! Lol. I'll be honest, not up to par on the Scotland vote. I just support anyone who feels they want to be free. And honestly, I don't understand why anyone would chose not to be free. And on that note, HALTS MAUL FREEDOM!!!
Why would anyone choose not to be free? Well, because Freedom Costs (cue the bad '70s movie music. Expect Charles Bronson at any moment). To be more specific, only those with adequate resources can really be free. Countries with a wealth of resources can be free, because they can fend off hostile overtures and have the economic base to attract investment. Countries that are not rich in resources, whether because they are too small, or intrinsically have little of value, won't have a large enough or diverse enough economic base to sustain themselves as "free" counties. Please note I'm NOT talking about Scotland here; just talking in generalities. Some countries may need strong economic and political ties to a more powerful country in order to survive. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on the conditions of that relationship, and what each country is getting out of it.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Comments
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Very sad today but strangely resolute to carry the fight forward,
On the No side stood big business, the coalition government, Labour, the BBC, and every single British newspaper with the exception of the Sunday Herald. All of them stood shoulder to shoulder with the sectarian bigots of the orange order,, the racist fascist BNP, EDL and SDL, and the xenophobic UKIP.
All of the above combined against the Yes side comprised of Scottish nationalists, Socialists, the Green Party and countless grass roots activists campaigning for a fairer, more just and socially inclusive Scotland. Anti-Austerity, anti-nuclear, pro immigration.
.....and we almost fucking did it!
The fight continues and we only need to win once :-)
Having said that, I'm very interested to know what's next for Scotland? With the No side earning a narrow victory, what do Scots want from the rest of the UK? It seems that even the No side wants to see changes. Are we talking about a move towards federalism or something different? I don't know that much about UK politics but it would seem to me that England is far too large relative to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Is it possible that England could be broken into smaller regions (states) in order to give other parts of the UK a clearer voice?
How does Scotland fit into the rest of the United Kingdom after a referendum like this?
They are already reneging on their promises and did exactly the same thing following the first referendum for devolution in 1979:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/keep-em-peeled/
Ugly scences in Glasgow also. Notice the salutes:
But i do feel some empathy for those who really cared and voted yes. That's gotta be depressing.
I'm not angry at the those who voted no, it was their democratic right. I feel angry at all the banks, businesses and Westminster politicians who bullied and scared people into a no vote. And at the latter for making (probably false) last minute promises of swift further devolution to Scotland.
I feel sad that we have missed the opportunity to become a more fair and just society. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in the UK if not Europe, but I see children being brought up in poverty every day. It was however a victory for democracy, a 85% turnout is truly amazing. Also 16 year olds getting to vote was a real success.
I think that some form of federalism would be the fairest way forward for England and hope that something like this will be possible for them. However, in my heart Scotland is a seperate country, I will always back independence and do not wish to be part of a UK federalist state.
I will always be part of the 45%.
Being Glasgow however....we can respond with humour.
How often can this be brought to vote? Was the last try for independence in 1979?
The outcome in Scotland may not have been to everyone's liking but it is a great example of democracy in action. Scotland nearly found its independence; not at the tip of a sword or the barrel of a gun but at the ballot box. To me that's a pretty impressive feat. While many Scots are undoubtedly disappointed, how many people in Scotland woke up on September 20th feeling afraid for their lives because they went out to vote?
I would much rather live in a democratic state than any of the other alternatives currently available to us.
Edit-and just to add, the Palestinians chose democracy and VOTED in members of Hamas to which the worlds leading democratic country (USA) and the middle easts so called beacon of democracy (Israel) chose to ignore that form of democracy when it came to the Palestinians. See, a total SCAM.
As for Palestine; I support Hamas' right to rule as a duly elected government. Israel running interference in Palestine is an illegal act that has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy. The same thing can be said for the United States and its unending quest for cheap oil. Personally I like the fact that I live in a society where I can openly voice my opinion, share my grievances publicly and cast a ballot when I disapprove of the way things are being done without fear of reprisal. It isn't perfect but I don't see a better alternative.
For a person who has such distain for the democratic process, what would you propose in its place?
So in closing, Haults Maul (sorry - couldn't resist