Scottish Independence - Thoughts of those eligible to vote in the referendum

PJ_HONEY

On September 18th 2014 Scotland will be voting in a referendum to decide whether we become an independent country.

The question asked will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?" and not "Do you like Alex Salmond?" which the BBC and Daily Mail seem to think is the question being asked of us.

I'm interested in particular in the thoughts of those who are eligible to vote in the referendum. Have you made up your mind yet, if so how are you going to vote and your reasons why?

I'll start the ball rolling. I'll be voting Yes on the basis that I want the decisions that effect Scotland to decided by the people who live here.

I would like to see Scotland get the government that the majority of voters in Scotland vote for every time rather than the current system where we are governed 50% of the time by political parties that only a minority voted for.

It's irrelevant to me which political party governs Scotland so long as an in an Independent Scotland the government of the day represents the will of the people following a proportionately representative and democratic vote.

I also believe that people who live in Scotland are just as capable as any other people, in any other nation on earth, of governing their own affairs.

Thoughts and views welcome.

Thanks,

PJ

brianlux

Wow- a bit mind blowing- I didn't know Scotland was not a sovereign nation. I guess I need to brush up more on geography.

I'm curious as to who gets to vote and what are the pros and cons of independence?

Sorry I can't vote- I'm only 1/16 Scottish.

PJ_HONEY

No worries. We're a country but not a sovereign nation and haven't been since 1707.

In order to be able to vote you just have to be resident in Scotland.

The pros and cons of independence have been argued over for decades in Scotland.

I'm bias in that I support a Yes vote so not sure I could give you the most objective view on how that debate is going.

I think independence as an individual and a nation is preferable to dependency though.

How has independence worked out for the USA is probably the question I would ask? Should the USA be an independent country? I would say Yes and I'm glad it is.

brianlux

PJ_HONEY said:

No worries. We're a country but not a sovereign nation and haven't been since 1707.

In order to be able to vote you just have to be resident in Scotland.

The pros and cons of independence have been argued over for decades in Scotland.

I'm bias in that I support a Yes vote so not sure I could give you the most objective view on how that debate is going.

I think independence as an individual and a nation is preferable to dependency though.

How has independence worked out for the USA is probably the question I would ask? Should the USA be an independent country? I would say Yes and I'm glad it is.

I agree, it's probably better.

The best scenario, to my way of thinking, is for all countries to be interdependent.

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

PJ_HONEY said:

No worries. We're a country but not a sovereign nation and haven't been since 1707.

In order to be able to vote you just have to be resident in Scotland.

The pros and cons of independence have been argued over for decades in Scotland.

I'm bias in that I support a Yes vote so not sure I could give you the most objective view on how that debate is going.

I think independence as an individual and a nation is preferable to dependency though.

How has independence worked out for the USA is probably the question I would ask? Should the USA be an independent country? I would say Yes and I'm glad it is.

I agree, it's probably better.

The best scenario, to my way of thinking, is for all countries to be interdependent.

Stop making sense. You're hurting my brain.

eldarion75

Being Irish, i support Scotlands brave strike for independence and sovereignty 100%

however, what's the point in doing it at all, if you're keeping the queen as head of state?? that's defeating the whole purpose to my mind.

Pingfah

eldarion75 said:

Being Irish, i support Scotlands brave strike for independence and sovereignty 100%

however, what's the point in doing it at all, if you're keeping the queen as head of state?? that's defeating the whole purpose to my mind.

If you think having the Queen as a Head of State defeats the object of independence, you've badly misunderstood both the nature of being a sovereign state in the Commonwealth, AND the role the Queen plays as Head of State.

You do realise that, amongst many others, she is the Head of State of Canada, Australia, New Zealand & Jamaica too? So those countries might as well just throw in the towel and join the UK because they have defeated the purpose of being independent... right?

dimitrispearljam

I support Scotland to become.an independence country

eldarion75

It's more of a psychological position than anything, We here were offered total independence as long as the british monarch remained head of state and we wouldn't accept it at all.
It's a moot point maybe, but i'd pick all or none, and yes those countries you mention should also ditch the Queen, but that's just my POV.

PJ_HONEY

Eldarion/Dimitri,

Thanks to both of you for the voices of support.

For what it's worth I'm also a republican and believe Scotland should get rid of the monarchy once we become independent.

Pingfah,

I think the point about the monarchy is that it demands that the people swear allegiance to them. I want to live in a country where the democratically elected officials swear allegiance to the people.

I take your point though and agree that countries like Canada are independent despite having the Queen as head of state. I think though that's because in those countries she truly is just a symbolic figurehead and has no real power. I'm not convinced that is currently the case in the UK/Scotland.

Jason P

I think it's a bad idea because you wouldn't be able to fly the Union Jack flag anymore. That's a bad ass flag.

PJ_HONEY

Not as bad ass as this though:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotland-Lion-Rampant-Sleeved-House/dp/B0047UV2JC/ref=sr_1_5?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1406382627&sr=1-5&keywords=Scotland+Lion+Rampant+Flag

eldarion75

Jason P said:

I think it's a bad idea because you wouldn't be able to fly the Union Jack flag anymore. That's a bad ass flag.

you might like it, but 'the butchers apron' as it's known in these parts, is actually comprised of the flags of england ireland scotland and wales..they technically wont be able to use that flag once scotland has independence, but they carried on using it after we in ireland got our independence so they probably will...i wont be sorry to hear the end of 'united kingom/great britain' though

Pingfah

PJ_HONEY said:

Eldarion/Dimitri,

Thanks to both of you for the voices of support.

For what it's worth I'm also a republican and believe Scotland should get rid of the monarchy once we become independent.

Pingfah,

I think the point about the monarchy is that it demands that the people swear allegiance to them. I want to live in a country where the democratically elected officials swear allegiance to the people.

I take your point though and agree that countries like Canada are independent despite having the Queen as head of state. I think though that's because in those countries she truly is just a symbolic figurehead and has no real power. I'm not convinced that is currently the case in the UK/Scotland.

Actually this isn't true. All commonwealth nations are subject to Royal Assent on their parliamentary or federal decisions, and it is just as much purely ceremonial in those circumstances as it is in the UK, or would be in a independent Scotland.

The fact of the matter is, she has no real power in the UK or Scotland NOW, let alone if Scotland would become independent. To say otherwise is paranoid nonsense. Royal Assent hasn't been refused since 1708, give me a break.

The only relevant question is, should we be paying a bunch of toffs to live the high life at tax payers expense, and the answer according to most Brits is "eh, probably not, but The Queen is the only reason anybody gives a shit about so England, so what the hell."

PJ_HONEY

Pingfah,

I don't think it's paranoid.

I think the influence of establishment figures in British politics and society is widely accepted. The establishment includes the royal family.

I'm not a huge fan of the BBC but here's a recent article in point that suggests they must be paranoid too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28066081

In particular the article states that:

Former prime minister Sir John Major also told the documentary that he changed policies after discussing them with the Queen.

eldarion75

so do you guys think this will pass? im reading that the undecideds are the key to the whole thing, and itsgonna be a tight race, too tight to call in fact

PJ_HONEY

I'm hoping so Eldarion.

The polls have consistently given No the lead albeit the gap has been decreasing steadily as we draw nearer the referendum.

Jason P

2 days left. My money is on them staying united. It's probably not in the best economic interest to do what is essentially chest puffing politics

blueandwhite

As a Canadian, this Scottish referendum has definitely caught my attention. If Scotland successfully obtains its independence I can see it spurring on the separatist movement in Quebec. It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland's independence ended up being the impetus for Quebec to finally cut ties with the rest of us living in Canada.

dignin

blueandwhite said:

As a Canadian, this Scottish referendum has definitely caught my attention. If Scotland successfully obtains its independence I can see it spurring on the separatist movement in Quebec. It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland's independence ended up being the impetus for Quebec to finally cut ties with the rest of us living in Canada.

I doubt it. The sovereign movement in Quebec seems to be on serious hiatus given the newly elected liberal provincial government and the Bloc still falling in the polls federally. So it's not going to happen for at least the next 4 years.

blueandwhite

dignin said:

blueandwhite said:

As a Canadian, this Scottish referendum has definitely caught my attention. If Scotland successfully obtains its independence I can see it spurring on the separatist movement in Quebec. It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland's independence ended up being the impetus for Quebec to finally cut ties with the rest of us living in Canada.

I doubt it. The sovereign movement in Quebec seems to be on serious hiatus given the newly elected liberal provincial government and the Bloc still falling in the polls federally. So it's not going to happen for at least the next 4 years.

Although I don't think separation is on the table right now, successful sovereign movement could easily reignite old feelings in Quebec's separatist population. It seems that Scotland and Quebec share similar sentiments when it comes to their national identities. I suspect that Scotland's success as an independent state could certainly be a rallying point for other separatist movements.

rr165892

I heard today the big nuke sub base/headquarters would have to go with independence.Is that true or would they work something out.

mickeyrat

rr165892 said:

I heard today the big nuke sub base/headquarters would have to go with independence.Is that true or would they work something out.

I'd wager a deal would be brokered. $ boon for Scotland along with the jobs that go with.

unsung

PJ_HONEY said:

No worries. We're a country but not a sovereign nation and haven't been since 1707.

In order to be able to vote you just have to be resident in Scotland.

The pros and cons of independence have been argued over for decades in Scotland.

I'm bias in that I support a Yes vote so not sure I could give you the most objective view on how that debate is going.

I think independence as an individual and a nation is preferable to dependency though.

How has independence worked out for the USA is probably the question I would ask? Should the USA be an independent country? I would say Yes and I'm glad it is.

I believe we should go back to how the Founders intended it to be, sovereign states with a general govt to represent us internationally. The general govt is not supposed to rule over the states, quite the opposite really.

That said I support secession and independence for all.

oftenreading

PJ_HONEY said:

Pingfah,

I don't think it's paranoid.

I think the influence of establishment figures in British politics and society is widely accepted. The establishment includes the royal family.

I'm not a huge fan of the BBC but here's a recent article in point that suggests they must be paranoid too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28066081

In particular the article states that:

Former prime minister Sir John Major also told the documentary that he changed policies after discussing them with the Queen.

Somehow I missed this thread earlier, so I apologize for going back to an old comment, but I don't think we need to assume something nefarious about John Major making changes to his policies after discussion with the Queen. While I'm not a fan of the monarchy overall, I do think the Queen is an intelligent woman who has seen and done more in her time on the throne that John Major or any prime minister since him has done. She's traveled most of the world, spoken with political leaders of all stripes, and lived in the public eye all her life. I don't find it hard to believe she may have a useful comment or relevant observation.

i_lov_it

I've seen a couple of stories now on this Referendum and they were saying will the People of Scotland vote with there Heads or there Hearts...as long as it's not based on Ego but rather on what's best for Scotland.

lukin2006

blueandwhite said:

As a Canadian, this Scottish referendum has definitely caught my attention. If Scotland successfully obtains its independence I can see it spurring on the separatist movement in Quebec. It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland's independence ended up being the impetus for Quebec to finally cut ties with the rest of us living in Canada.

Quebec will never separate ... they get about 7 billion a year in equalization payments ... they never been a net contributor to the program ... instead Quebec will do what Quebec has always done, keep using the threat of them leaving so we keep giving them more $$$ ... personally they can go if they what ...

Idris

edit

PJ_Soul

I'm not a voter but still want to comment.

Canada went through this with Quebec (twice!). I remember for the last one in 1995 everyone gathered in the pubs and were watching the results coverage all day on the edge of their seats as the numbers were updated. It was such a nail-biter that everyone was making spontaneous bets, lol! Obviously the separatists lost, but barely. The NO side won by only 0.58%. @-)

As for Scotland.... My heritage is Scottish, Welsh, and English. I guess emotionally I literally don't care, since it would be cool if Scotland were independent theoretically, but it's also alright that my heritage is pure "UK", lol! Anyway, what I do wonder is just how Scotland thinks it would be more beneficial for them economically. I don't claim to know much about that, but in a general sense I have trouble imagining it would be good for the Scottish people financially or logistically.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

blueandwhite said:

As a Canadian, this Scottish referendum has definitely caught my attention. If Scotland successfully obtains its independence I can see it spurring on the separatist movement in Quebec. It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland's independence ended up being the impetus for Quebec to finally cut ties with the rest of us living in Canada.

Quebec will never separate ... they get about 7 billion a year in equalization payments ... they never been a net contributor to the program ... instead Quebec will do what Quebec has always done, keep using the threat of them leaving so we keep giving them more $$$ ... personally they can go if they what ...

Agree. They will never separate at this point. Quebec has too much given to them by the Federal government, and yes, all that shit is just a political ploy now. I think the Quebec separatists who actually still want separation are just harping on a pipe dream. I don't even know why they still want it. There is NO way it would benefit anything in Quebec other than some French-Canadian egos.

PJ_HONEY

Thanks all for commenting.

Today, for the first time ever, the people of Scotland were given an opportunity to choose whether they wanted Scotland to become an independent country.

I voted Yes. Proudest day of my life.

Thank you to all those who fought so hard to make this day possible.