America's Gun Violence

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    Just reading from a far Chicago had another glorious weekend of “Gun Violence” w/ 9 dead and over 25 shot in the middle of winter.  A couple of tourists got clipped in Chinatown I am hearing from a robbery gone bad by a convicted felon of course, out on bail again from 2 recent arrests of  “I didn’t do nothing” incidents.  It sure seems   These new criminal and social justice Policies plaguing All of our nations big cities sure are working out quite well.   Just remember,  it’s not the misunderstood offenders who are doing the killings fault, it’s those big bad racist guns who one needs to look out for....Can I get a description of that gun please so I know what kind of gun to avoid when I get back home and go get some Dim sung in ChinaTown ?? 

    You make it sound like we’re blaming an inanimate object while you blame gang bangers in Chicago. Maybe those “responsible” gun owners in the Shangra La of Indianer ought to stop selling to straw purchasers who run guns to the inner city? But you know, profits over lives, especially “dark” lives.

    Take your man to the Cu Chi tunnels and he too can shoot some big guns for around $3 a round.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • joseph33joseph33 NashvillePosts: 777
    America has a mental health issue,not a gun issue.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    joseph33 said:
    America has a mental health issue,not a gun issue.
    Availability of firearms from “responsible” gun owners is a legitimate issue. Don’t blame mental illness for the crimes of the “responsible.”
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,155
    joseph33 said:
    America has a mental health issue,not a gun issue.
    From where I'm standing, it looks like it has both.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,155
    Sounds like a complete accident to me. What should be done about this? Outlaw Daisy BB guns?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    dudeman said:
    Sounds like a complete accident to me. What should be done about this? Outlaw Daisy BB guns?
    Hold those “responsible” accountable. 5-10 should do it.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 4,894
    Just reading from a far Chicago had another glorious weekend of “Gun Violence” w/ 9 dead and over 25 shot in the middle of winter.  A couple of tourists got clipped in Chinatown I am hearing from a robbery gone bad by a convicted felon of course, out on bail again from 2 recent arrests of  “I didn’t do nothing” incidents.  It sure seems   These new criminal and social justice Policies plaguing All of our nations big cities sure are working out quite well.   Just remember,  it’s not the misunderstood offenders who are doing the killings fault, it’s those big bad racist guns who one needs to look out for....Can I get a description of that gun please so I know what kind of gun to avoid when I get back home and go get some Dim sung in ChinaTown ?? 

    cool

    now do gun murders and suicide per capita

    you'll find rural america is overridden with gun violence as well
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 13,448
    joseph33 said:
    America has a mental health issue,not a gun issue.
    Why is it the move to deflect to another issue that the same party will do nothing about.  It's weird.  Even if what you say is the case, and I don;t believe mental health to be the bigger problem than guns, they are still doing nothing about it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,068
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,068
    edited February 11
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,068
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 5,368
    edited February 11
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I’ll say it...I absolutely believe that parents should be held liable and suffer legal consequences if their negligence directly leads to a child accidentally or intentionally hurting themselves or someone else.  
    And you are 100% right, all guns should be treated as loaded (even a BB gun) and out of reach of unattended children (or anyone not knowledgeable of basic gun safety).  I’m not sure what the legal penalty should be, but it should be severe.  The best deterrent for me is knowing the risks of what a loaded, unattended/unsecured  firearm around children could be.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,068
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I've heard nearly all gun owners support legislation requiring proper locks for guns. And yes, treat every gun as loaded. I would support laws that treated some high powered air rifles as guns. I just don't support it in this case because as far I know they are treated differently according to the law. I don't believe in punishing someone based on what the law should be, but on what the law is. Lets change it and punish the next guy. 
    Now if I am wrong and the state this happened in does already view BB guns and air rifles as firearms and the same laws apply then sure, apply the laws to him. But I am guessing they don't since no background checks are require among many other things. 
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,155
    PJPOWER said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I’ll say it...I absolutely believe that parents should be held liable and suffer legal consequences if their negligence directly leads to a child accidentally or intentionally hurting themselves or someone else.  
    And you are 100% right, all guns should be treated as loaded (even a BB gun) and out of reach of unattended children (or anyone not knowledgeable of basic gun safety).  I’m not sure what the legal penalty should be, but it should be severe.  The best deterrent for me is knowing the risks of what a loaded, unattended/unsecured  firearm around children could be.
    Absolutely agree. Safe storage requirements are fine by me. Same with accountability for parents who's negligence with firearms results in injury or death. 

    As it is now, when a shooting occurs an investigation follows. I don't know that the public ever gets the full story with all of the details but if negligence is found in the course of investigating a shooting, those found to be negligent should be dealt with according to the law. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,155
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I don't recall reading those things here on AMT but I may be wrong. It seems to me that most of the pro-gun posters on this forum are pretty level headed and reasonable. There are certainly gun-toting whack jobs out there but I have never gotten the impression that any of them post here.

    You appear to be calling out the type of gun owners who are not really represented here and I don't think that you'll find the reactions you may be looking for since most of us likely agree with you on this issue. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    dudeman said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I don't recall reading those things here on AMT but I may be wrong. It seems to me that most of the pro-gun posters on this forum are pretty level headed and reasonable. There are certainly gun-toting whack jobs out there but I have never gotten the impression that any of them post here.

    You appear to be calling out the type of gun owners who are not really represented here and I don't think that you'll find the reactions you may be looking for since most of us likely agree with you on this issue. 
    And yet nothing changes. “Responsible” gun owners aren’t held accountable because “there’s no law against it.” The way I see it, you level headed “responsible” gun owners need to be the voice of change because the NRA and pro gun law makers don’t listen to the rest of us. Why some here are members of the NRA out of convenience. How’s that working?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,155
    dudeman said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I don't recall reading those things here on AMT but I may be wrong. It seems to me that most of the pro-gun posters on this forum are pretty level headed and reasonable. There are certainly gun-toting whack jobs out there but I have never gotten the impression that any of them post here.

    You appear to be calling out the type of gun owners who are not really represented here and I don't think that you'll find the reactions you may be looking for since most of us likely agree with you on this issue. 
    And yet nothing changes. “Responsible” gun owners aren’t held accountable because “there’s no law against it.” The way I see it, you level headed “responsible” gun owners need to be the voice of change because the NRA and pro gun law makers don’t listen to the rest of us. Why some here are members of the NRA out of convenience. How’s that working?
    Some of us are the voice of change and vote accordingly. Change takes time. Approach means everything. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 22,577
    dudeman said:
    dudeman said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    mace1229 said:
    Like these guys? Murica, land of the “responsible” gun owner.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/us/teenager-bb-gun-death-trnd/index.html
    I didn't think anyone could die from a BB gun, even if you were shot in the eye. 
    But are you now lumping in BB guns with actual firearms now? I don't think it is fair to say the parents deserve 5-10 for what most wouldn't consider a deadly weapon and foresee this type of accident. 
    If it was a real gun, I would agree with you. But a kid with a BB gun, parents should be civilly responsible, not criminally. 
    Should those “responsible” gun owners be legally allowed to own “real” firearms? Showing how “responsible” they’ve been with “fake” firearms? A kid is dead and you want to excuse it. Unreal.

    An inner city youth holds up a liquor store with a BB gun. No jail time for armed robbery?
    Even using a fake gun in a robbery is still considered armed robbery in most cases, so that analogy doesn't apply.  And by fake I mean a toy or wooden gun, not a BB gun.

    But I will admit I may change my opinion, partially because the title of the article you linked was misleading. It wasn't a BB-gun, it was an air rifle. BB guns are usually a lot weaker, like the Christmas Story version. and I think of them as spring loaded.  Air rifles, which can also shoot a BB or pellet, are much more powerful and can actually be used for small game hunting. I don't know if the writers used BB gun in the title make it pop out more, or if that is just my understanding of the difference is not widely used. I can't recall if I've ever had that discussion before so I'm not sure where or why I have that perception of the difference between the 2.
     
    Either way I still wouldn't support jail time in this case, because I don't think there are any laws for locking up air rifles. So then what laws were broken by the parent? I would probably be in support of treating an air rifle that meats certain specifications as a firearm, but you cant create that new bill then retroactively charge people with passed crimes.
    Negligent homicide doesn’t apply? Would you allow the “responsible” gun owner to own firearms? Would you believe differently if it was your son or grandson who was killed?

    What is it about “responsible” gun owners who don’t want to see “responsible” gun owners held accountable? Is that some slippery slope you’re afraid of?
    I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Most gun owners here, myself included, have said we are okay with penalties for parents. I even just said that in my last response, but then you come back and accuse gun owners of not wanting responsibility and some slippery slope thing.

    I can't answer the question about should this guy own guns. I don't know anything about him or really this scenario beyond what a single article stated. Did the dad even know it was there, or did an 18 year old stepson who borrowed the car leave it in the back seat? I have no idea, so I won't comment on what should or shouldn't happen to the dad.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone on here support penalties for “responsible” gun owner parents to be held accountable when their guns kill someone, whether accidentally or when their kids get a hold of them and kill someone else or themselves. It’s usually “they’ve suffered enough” or “it’s a tragic accident.” Or, it’s the excuses you’ve offered.

    I thought as a “responsible” gun owner, you were supposed to assume that every gun is loaded and that any gun can kill you? So how does a loaded gun end up in the back seat of a car, unsecured with an eight year old? And no one should be held accountable? You don’t support jail time in this case, so what should the penalty be?
    I don't recall reading those things here on AMT but I may be wrong. It seems to me that most of the pro-gun posters on this forum are pretty level headed and reasonable. There are certainly gun-toting whack jobs out there but I have never gotten the impression that any of them post here.

    You appear to be calling out the type of gun owners who are not really represented here and I don't think that you'll find the reactions you may be looking for since most of us likely agree with you on this issue. 
    And yet nothing changes. “Responsible” gun owners aren’t held accountable because “there’s no law against it.” The way I see it, you level headed “responsible” gun owners need to be the voice of change because the NRA and pro gun law makers don’t listen to the rest of us. Why some here are members of the NRA out of convenience. How’s that working?
    Some of us are the voice of change and vote accordingly. Change takes time. Approach means everything. 
    Approach, like getting all geared up and toting your guns to the statehouse to protest legislation passed by democratically elected legislators? Approach, like peace officers sworn to uphold the constitution refusing to uphold democratically passed red flag laws? Approach, like creating gun sanctuaries in response to democratically passed responsible gun legislation? Approach, like still going on about how libs want to take all of your guns away (your in both instances being in a general sense and not you personally)?

    Google the Florida air rifle shooting and choose one of the local tv station’s reporting and then read some of the other gun related stories that follow, like the pool boy shot by the iguana hunter and the lack of regulation around shooting iguanas. Fucking madness. I’m tired of waiting for “responsible” to kick in.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
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