America's Gun Violence

PJ_Soul

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

Not sure if serious or satire.

http://wgntv.com/2018/03/23/students-will-be-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-school-shooting-superintendent-says/

Huh. Well, it's a legit news outlet, so I have to assume it's not satire? .... Well, whatever. Maybe it gives some people peace of mind without turning the school into a police state. I guess I don't see anything wrong with this, even if it does sound a little bit silly. I mean, the chances of a school shooting happening for anyone are still extremely low, so yeah, why not a bucket of rocks if it makes them feel proactive?

It might SEEM silly, but think about it. If you’re in a class and you hear the shooter coming down the hallway, you have 20 people ready to throw rocks at his face with 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him, I kind of like those odds, at least as far as only losing a couple lives instead of the whole class. You can’t aim a gun when you’re getting hit in the face with a rock. 

We're talking about little kids here too, right? I don't think anyone other than maybe the teacher would be ready for much of anything, and there certainly wouldn't be 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him when it's a classroom full of 9 year olds. Older high school kids might have the presence of mind for this kind of thing, but even then... Do you want YOUR kid to run straight at and try to tackle a guy who's spraying a room with bullets? I don't think I would.
Anyway, as I said, I think a bucket of rock is a perfectly fine idea, but more for the psychology of the students that it being a really legit defense against the unlikely event of a school shooting in their classroom.

Would you want your kid huddled up in a ball waiting to get shot? That’s the situation you’re in if the shooter gets in your classroom, you’re fucked, you have nothing to lose at this point. 

And yes, this would be much harder with little kids, but they can still throw the rocks and let the teacher or any other adults in the room go after him. Again, NOTHING to lose at this point. 

Er, well yeah, I'd want my kid doing whatever minimized his chances of getting shot, and that would definitely be huddled up in a ball under a desk as opposed to running straight at the shooter, lol. I think all the kids standing up and throwing rocks would probably put them all at greater risk TBH, especially for younger kids, most of whom wouldn't even be able to hit the shooter with their rock. I dunno, is it just me? Do other people want to stand up and make themselves noticeable during a mass shooting, or do they want to duck for cover?
Anyway, I'm sure everyone will agree that prevention should be the main focus, yeah? I have also mentioned before that I would support a less dangerous means of defense, like bullet proof doors or even closets that double as safe rooms or something? Pretty much anything would be better than my kid jumping up and throwing a rock at a man with an assault rifle, geez.

RiotZact

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

Not sure if serious or satire.

http://wgntv.com/2018/03/23/students-will-be-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-school-shooting-superintendent-says/

Huh. Well, it's a legit news outlet, so I have to assume it's not satire? .... Well, whatever. Maybe it gives some people peace of mind without turning the school into a police state. I guess I don't see anything wrong with this, even if it does sound a little bit silly. I mean, the chances of a school shooting happening for anyone are still extremely low, so yeah, why not a bucket of rocks if it makes them feel proactive?

It might SEEM silly, but think about it. If you’re in a class and you hear the shooter coming down the hallway, you have 20 people ready to throw rocks at his face with 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him, I kind of like those odds, at least as far as only losing a couple lives instead of the whole class. You can’t aim a gun when you’re getting hit in the face with a rock. 

We're talking about little kids here too, right? I don't think anyone other than maybe the teacher would be ready for much of anything, and there certainly wouldn't be 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him when it's a classroom full of 9 year olds. Older high school kids might have the presence of mind for this kind of thing, but even then... Do you want YOUR kid to run straight at and try to tackle a guy who's spraying a room with bullets? I don't think I would.
Anyway, as I said, I think a bucket of rock is a perfectly fine idea, but more for the psychology of the students that it being a really legit defense against the unlikely event of a school shooting in their classroom.

Would you want your kid huddled up in a ball waiting to get shot? That’s the situation you’re in if the shooter gets in your classroom, you’re fucked, you have nothing to lose at this point. 

And yes, this would be much harder with little kids, but they can still throw the rocks and let the teacher or any other adults in the room go after him. Again, NOTHING to lose at this point. 

Er, well yeah, I'd want my kid doing whatever minimized his chances of getting shot, and that would definitely be huddled up in a ball under a desk as opposed to running straight at the shooter, lol. I think all the kids standing up and throwing rocks would probably put them all at greater risk TBH, especially for younger kids, most of whom wouldn't even be able to hit the shooter with their rock. I dunno, is it just me? Do other people want to stand up and make themselves noticeable during a mass shooting, or do they want to duck for cover?
Anyway, I'm sure everyone will agree that prevention should be the main focus, yeah?

It’s what they are training now. I just went to a teacher in service day where law inforcement gave a presentation on it. There are countless incidents of kids ducking under their desks and the shooter walking down the aisles shooting them one by one, with a very high fatality rate. If a shooter walks into the classroom, closes and locks the door, how in any way is hiding under a desk going to help anyone? Barring the one in a million chance that law infocement is showing up within the next 15 seconds. 

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

You know what’s serious? This is what is serious:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/local/us-school-shootings-history/

This country is fucked.

Only 14 states have laws holding “responsible” gun owners accountable if someone else uses their gun, especially minors. However, rarely are those laws enforced. So much for “responsibility.” 

Good article. I think everyone here should read it.
I admit, I began by thinking "here's another anti-gun article with inflated numbers." But it isn't. Uses only relevant events to the point it is trying to make, and even criticizes that source that stated 18 school shootings by the Valentine's day shooting in Florida. I think it is one of the more accurate "anti-gun" articles I've read and ands perspective to it. And for me is more powerful by being honest.
I knew California had strict laws for guns and for when minors access them out of negligence. I didn't know most states did not follow. That is one thing I would advocate for as part of gun legislation.

PJ_Soul

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

Not sure if serious or satire.

http://wgntv.com/2018/03/23/students-will-be-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-school-shooting-superintendent-says/

Huh. Well, it's a legit news outlet, so I have to assume it's not satire? .... Well, whatever. Maybe it gives some people peace of mind without turning the school into a police state. I guess I don't see anything wrong with this, even if it does sound a little bit silly. I mean, the chances of a school shooting happening for anyone are still extremely low, so yeah, why not a bucket of rocks if it makes them feel proactive?

It might SEEM silly, but think about it. If you’re in a class and you hear the shooter coming down the hallway, you have 20 people ready to throw rocks at his face with 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him, I kind of like those odds, at least as far as only losing a couple lives instead of the whole class. You can’t aim a gun when you’re getting hit in the face with a rock. 

We're talking about little kids here too, right? I don't think anyone other than maybe the teacher would be ready for much of anything, and there certainly wouldn't be 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him when it's a classroom full of 9 year olds. Older high school kids might have the presence of mind for this kind of thing, but even then... Do you want YOUR kid to run straight at and try to tackle a guy who's spraying a room with bullets? I don't think I would.
Anyway, as I said, I think a bucket of rock is a perfectly fine idea, but more for the psychology of the students that it being a really legit defense against the unlikely event of a school shooting in their classroom.

Would you want your kid huddled up in a ball waiting to get shot? That’s the situation you’re in if the shooter gets in your classroom, you’re fucked, you have nothing to lose at this point. 

And yes, this would be much harder with little kids, but they can still throw the rocks and let the teacher or any other adults in the room go after him. Again, NOTHING to lose at this point. 

Er, well yeah, I'd want my kid doing whatever minimized his chances of getting shot, and that would definitely be huddled up in a ball under a desk as opposed to running straight at the shooter, lol. I think all the kids standing up and throwing rocks would probably put them all at greater risk TBH, especially for younger kids, most of whom wouldn't even be able to hit the shooter with their rock. I dunno, is it just me? Do other people want to stand up and make themselves noticeable during a mass shooting, or do they want to duck for cover?
Anyway, I'm sure everyone will agree that prevention should be the main focus, yeah?

It’s what they are training now. I just went to a teacher in service day where law inforcement have a presentation on it. There is countless incidents of kids ducking under their desks and the shooter walking down the aisles shooting them one by one, with a very high fatality rate. If a shooter walks into the classroom, closes and locks the door, how in any way is hiding under a desk going to help anyone? Barring the one in a million chance that law infocement is showing up within the next 15 seconds. 

Aren't there a lot of incidents of kids who were ducking under something who DIDN'T get shot too though? And really? COUNTLESS incidents where a shooter walked down isles shooting them systematically, one by one, while they're under their desks? Where did that happen countless times?
Honestly, if a guy goes into a classroom full of little kids with the intention of killing them all, I just cannot see how the little kids standing up and chucking rocks is going to help them. I think that actually sounds a little bit ridiculous. At least if the kids are huddling under things or in a closet with their vitals covered, they might have a chance of surviving even if they are shot, while the kids standing up are much more like to have their brains blown out of their heads.
I am hearing what you're saying... I just am not buying that that method is actually going to save lives at the end of the day in general. Again, what I would prefer is that the shooter can't walk into that classroom in the first place and can't shoot through it either, because the door has been upgraded and because the school has a good security and alert system in the case of an intruder. That seems like a MUCH more reasonable plan, don't you think?

RiotZact

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

Not sure if serious or satire.

http://wgntv.com/2018/03/23/students-will-be-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-school-shooting-superintendent-says/

Huh. Well, it's a legit news outlet, so I have to assume it's not satire? .... Well, whatever. Maybe it gives some people peace of mind without turning the school into a police state. I guess I don't see anything wrong with this, even if it does sound a little bit silly. I mean, the chances of a school shooting happening for anyone are still extremely low, so yeah, why not a bucket of rocks if it makes them feel proactive?

It might SEEM silly, but think about it. If you’re in a class and you hear the shooter coming down the hallway, you have 20 people ready to throw rocks at his face with 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him, I kind of like those odds, at least as far as only losing a couple lives instead of the whole class. You can’t aim a gun when you’re getting hit in the face with a rock. 

We're talking about little kids here too, right? I don't think anyone other than maybe the teacher would be ready for much of anything, and there certainly wouldn't be 2 or 3 people ready to tackle him when it's a classroom full of 9 year olds. Older high school kids might have the presence of mind for this kind of thing, but even then... Do you want YOUR kid to run straight at and try to tackle a guy who's spraying a room with bullets? I don't think I would.
Anyway, as I said, I think a bucket of rock is a perfectly fine idea, but more for the psychology of the students that it being a really legit defense against the unlikely event of a school shooting in their classroom.

Would you want your kid huddled up in a ball waiting to get shot? That’s the situation you’re in if the shooter gets in your classroom, you’re fucked, you have nothing to lose at this point. 

And yes, this would be much harder with little kids, but they can still throw the rocks and let the teacher or any other adults in the room go after him. Again, NOTHING to lose at this point. 

Er, well yeah, I'd want my kid doing whatever minimized his chances of getting shot, and that would definitely be huddled up in a ball under a desk as opposed to running straight at the shooter, lol. I think all the kids standing up and throwing rocks would probably put them all at greater risk TBH, especially for younger kids, most of whom wouldn't even be able to hit the shooter with their rock. I dunno, is it just me? Do other people want to stand up and make themselves noticeable during a mass shooting, or do they want to duck for cover?
Anyway, I'm sure everyone will agree that prevention should be the main focus, yeah?

It’s what they are training now. I just went to a teacher in service day where law inforcement have a presentation on it. There is countless incidents of kids ducking under their desks and the shooter walking down the aisles shooting them one by one, with a very high fatality rate. If a shooter walks into the classroom, closes and locks the door, how in any way is hiding under a desk going to help anyone? Barring the one in a million chance that law infocement is showing up within the next 15 seconds. 

Aren't there a lot of incidents of kids who were ducking under something who DIDN'T get shot too though? And really? COUNTLESS incidents where a shooter walked down isles shooting them systematically, one by one, while they're under their desks? Where did that happen countless times?
Honestly, if a guy goes into a classroom full of little kids with the intention of killing them all, I just cannot see how the little kids standing up and chucking rocks is going to help them. I think that actually sounds a little bit ridiculous. At least if the kids are huddling under things or in a closet with their vitals covered, they might have a chance of surviving even if they are shot, while the kids standing up are much more like to have their brains blown out of their heads.
I am hearing what you're saying... I just am not buying that that method is actually going to save lives at the end of the day in general. Again, what I would prefer is that the shooter can't walk into that classroom in the first place and can't shoot through it either, because the door has been upgraded and because the school has a good security and alert system in the case of an intruder. That seems like a MUCH more reasonable plan, don't you think?

Oh that is a much better plan, but until that happens the rock idea is better than the duck and cover idea. 

And you’re right, I shouldn’t have said countless, but it is how most of the worst ones have happened. 

Ok, so if the shooter is running through the halls and firing 10 shots into each classroom then moving on to the next, then yes, duck and cover would work great. But that’s not what they’re doing, they do their research and research shows that the highest body count comes from targeting an individual classroom and not moving on until every kid in that room is shot. 

PJ_Soul

Well, as I said, I think the proactive idea probably makes them all feel better in terms of a plan .... I still don't think it will do them any good if the unthinkable actually happens though. Unless they find dying on their feet an important factor. I dunno, I still feel like a person like that is going to be able to kill them all in a room whether they've each got a rock or not, at least with younger kids. Though I'll agree that the effectiveness of retaliation grows along with the kids. I mean, if a classroom full of 17 and 18 year olds all have the guts and presence of mind to fight back, at least some of them could most likely save themselves that way. But with younger kids? I don't think so. I wouldn't feel comfortable if a school told a child of mine to get up and attack a person with an assault weapon. And honestly, how many kids would even be capable of doing anything other than crying or whatever? Not many, probably. Which would put a bigger target on the backs of the kids who did.... If this method were being taught only in high schools I'd find it a lot more reasonable, but it doesn't seem that way.

RiotZact

PJ_Soul said:

Well, as I said, I think the proactive idea probably makes them all feel better in terms of a plan .... I still don't think it will do them any good if the unthinkable actually happens though. Unless they find dying on their feet an important factor. I dunno, I still feel like a person like that is going to be able to kill them all in a room whether they've each got a rock or not, at least with younger kids. Though I'll agree that the effectiveness of retaliation grows along with the kids. I mean, if a classroom full of 17 and 18 year olds all have the guts and presence of mind to fight back, at least some of them could most likely save themselves that way. But with younger kids? I don't think so. I wouldn't feel comfortable if a school told a child of mine to get up and attack a person with an assault weapon. And honestly, how many kids would even be capable of doing anything other than crying or whatever? Not many, probably. Which would put a bigger target on the backs of the kids who did.... If this method were being taught only in high schools I'd find it a lot more reasonable, but it doesn't seem that way.

I get what you’re saying. It’s tough, and it does seem silly. I’m just reporting what I was told by the professionals. 

unsung

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Rocks, reinforcing doors, armed teachers, armed security on hand... anything but removing the guns from the equation, eh?

HughFreakingDillon

how about drones in the playground? I say drones. 

HesCalledDyer

How about we just install a tyrant to run the country then we can all actually exercise our 2A rights instead of wasting time shooting up schools.  That's what 2A is meant for, right?  Overthrowing tyranny?

HughFreakingDillon

HesCalledDyer said:

How about we just install a tyrant to run the country then we can all actually exercise our 2A rights instead of wasting time shooting up schools.  That's what 2A is meant for, right?  Overthrowing tyranny?

DYERS GETTIN' UPSET! 

HesCalledDyer

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

How about we just install a tyrant to run the country then we can all actually exercise our 2A rights instead of wasting time shooting up schools.  That's what 2A is meant for, right?  Overthrowing tyranny?

DYERS GETTIN' UPSET! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4BwG7UF-l4

elvistheking44

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Rocks, reinforcing doors, armed teachers, armed security on hand... anything but removing the guns from the equation, eh?

Or we could focus on the cause and not the tools....

Thirty Bills Unpaid

elvistheking44 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Rocks, reinforcing doors, armed teachers, armed security on hand... anything but removing the guns from the equation, eh?

Or we couldn’t focus on the cause and not the tools....

Just that simple, eh? Go cure depression, anxiety, despair, and all other ailments that drive a madman to mass murder?

People are looking at the cause, but human nature is complex to say the least- not to mention the fact that all other countries have their share of the same social/emotional problems Americans face. The obvious difference is- as you stated- other countries do not provide tools of mass murder to their afflicted. So... mass murder is not a weekly occurrence.

unsung

Tyra, I know exactly what you mean.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Tyra, I know exactly what you mean.

Don't look at it as 'punishment', Unsung. Look at it as a 'sacrifice'. Yes... you like shooting shit...and that gun is admittedly sexy as all hell, but the other dickhead owners who have shown the capacity for carnage such weapons are capable of have alerted a public to their risk to society.

And society doesn't want to assume that risk anymore.

elvistheking44

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

elvistheking44 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Rocks, reinforcing doors, armed teachers, armed security on hand... anything but removing the guns from the equation, eh?

Or we couldn’t focus on the cause and not the tools....

Just that simple, eh? Go cure depression, anxiety, despair, and all other ailments that drive a madman to mass murder?

People are looking at the cause, but human nature is complex to say the least- not to mention the fact that all other countries have their share of the same social/emotional problems Americans face. The obvious difference is- as you stated- other countries do not provide tools of mass murder to their afflicted. So... mass murder is not a weekly occurrence.

Never said simple.  I just think if this amount of energy and finances we’re put into school therapists and social needs we may accomplish more.  You don’t have NRA junkies out there protesting against mental health needs. Perhaps both sides could work together instead of back and forth with nothing achieved.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

elvistheking44 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

elvistheking44 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Rocks, reinforcing doors, armed teachers, armed security on hand... anything but removing the guns from the equation, eh?

Or we couldn’t focus on the cause and not the tools....

Just that simple, eh? Go cure depression, anxiety, despair, and all other ailments that drive a madman to mass murder?

People are looking at the cause, but human nature is complex to say the least- not to mention the fact that all other countries have their share of the same social/emotional problems Americans face. The obvious difference is- as you stated- other countries do not provide tools of mass murder to their afflicted. So... mass murder is not a weekly occurrence.

Never said simple.  I just think if this amount of energy and finances we’re put into school therapists and social needs we may accomplish more.  You don’t have NRA junkies out there protesting against mental health needs. Perhaps both sides could work together instead of back and forth with nothing achieved.

Fair post.

Halifax2TheMax

elvistheking44 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

elvistheking44 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Reinforcing the doors would seem like a better option than having kids try to throw rocks.

Rocks, reinforcing doors, armed teachers, armed security on hand... anything but removing the guns from the equation, eh?

Or we couldn’t focus on the cause and not the tools....

Just that simple, eh? Go cure depression, anxiety, despair, and all other ailments that drive a madman to mass murder?

People are looking at the cause, but human nature is complex to say the least- not to mention the fact that all other countries have their share of the same social/emotional problems Americans face. The obvious difference is- as you stated- other countries do not provide tools of mass murder to their afflicted. So... mass murder is not a weekly occurrence.

Never said simple.  I just think if this amount of energy and finances we’re put into school therapists and social needs we may accomplish more.  You don’t have NRA junkies out there protesting against mental health needs. Perhaps both sides could work together instead of back and forth with nothing achieved.

No, you just have the NRA opposing restrictions on the mentally ill buying guns, “responsible” as they are. NRA don’t need no stinkin’ junkies.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/319859-nra-the-mentally-ill-have-gun-rights-too