America's Gun Violence

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Comments

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    I'm not offended... i was having a little fun... not sure i'm the one that needs to lighten up here lol
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Not much offends me by the way
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited March 2019
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    my2hands said:
    Not much offends me by the way
    I find your lack of offense extremely offensive! :)
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,753
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    With the currently elected president setting an example by acting like an immature, petulant, spoiled 5 yr old you should be okay with people not acting like an "adult".
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    The problem with many of the laws people propose are suggest are like McGruff said, the "feel good" laws but don;t do anything. We could eliminate every assault rifle in the country, prevent every accident, eliminate 100% of the shootings resulting from a heated argument and that would just place a small dent in the data.
    Laws never seem to target the root of the problem. We don't want to address gang problems are even admit a connection between family status and violence. Reporters have gotten fired for suggesting that. We want to start with what causes 1% of the problem and turn a blind eye to the 99%. We should do it the other way around.


    How many thus far this year are due to "gang activity?" A "small dent" in the data is a start and worth aiming for. But maybe not.

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/children-killed

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/accidental-deaths

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/teens-killed

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?year=2019

    'Murica, Woot!

    Woot.
    Okay, my 1% was exaggerated. None of those links were related to anything I said however. Domestic violence and accidents account for roughly 1000 gun deaths a year. So why do we focus on that and ignore the other 30,000+ ?
    My comment was about storage of ammo and how it is to prevent accidents and heated debates, not sure how all those links fit in. Locking ammo up separately won't prevent any of those accidents. SO now we're down to just focusing on about 500-600 out of the 30,000+ deaths. And not that 500-600 isn't worth considering, but my point was why continue to ignore much bigger factors? You didnt address that. 
     Locking them up separately doesn't seem like it would prevent the domestic heated argument either for reasons already discussed.
    Woot


    Care to clarify your comment about how we don't focus on gang violence or consider the "family structure?" Who does that refer to? Source of your 1,000 number for domestic violence and accidents total?

    And I wasn't commenting solely, or really at all, on your comments about separate storage of guns and ammo and folks having time to cool down. 40,000+ a year, no big deal, nothing can be done. I get where the pro-gun crowd is coming from. Nothing can be done. its a blip. Its minor. Nothing we can do will reduce the numbers, so why try. I get it.

    https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/
    In an average month, 50 American women are shot to death by intimate partners,4
    50 per month = 600 a year.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
    puts accidental shooting at about 500.

    Storing guns and ammo together has no impact on street violence. That is the topic that is being debated right now, and there is no reason to believe it would impact suicides, accidents, street violence. The only valuable argument was it would impact domestic violence. I disagree, but would admit there is at least some logic to that statement. Disagree because the time it takes to get to a gun safe, open it, load a gun, I don;t see moving to the next room or closet adding any meaningful amount of time to impact the situation. 

    Everyone knows violence is higher in broken homes and fatherless communities. No one wants to say it. Lets find ways to help single mothers, prevent teenage pregnancy to begin with that contributes to this. Reduce the cycle of poverty. All would have a bigger impact on gun violence than storing ammo in the closet next to the gun safe in a separate box.

    I've said many times I'm for background checks, registration, no gunshow loopholes and many other forms. I just don't see the logic that I can't lock my ammo up in my gun safe.
    Why do you posit that only women are the victims of domestic violence? Do the innocent men, children and innocent bystanders 
    count or are women the only victims of domestic violence in your thought process?
    I have a cousin who is a retired cop, he has investigated plenty of instances of domestic violence toward men...it does happen, the statistics are not usually very accurate, because most men are too embarrassed to file charges, and some simply say just a "misunderstanding", even though the physical evidence suggests otherwise.

    Domestic violence is as good a reason as any to keep ammo and guns separate...
    Add suicide to that list
    And Children accidentally shooting other children 
    Especially suicide.  
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,353
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    The problem with many of the laws people propose are suggest are like McGruff said, the "feel good" laws but don;t do anything. We could eliminate every assault rifle in the country, prevent every accident, eliminate 100% of the shootings resulting from a heated argument and that would just place a small dent in the data.
    Laws never seem to target the root of the problem. We don't want to address gang problems are even admit a connection between family status and violence. Reporters have gotten fired for suggesting that. We want to start with what causes 1% of the problem and turn a blind eye to the 99%. We should do it the other way around.


    How many thus far this year are due to "gang activity?" A "small dent" in the data is a start and worth aiming for. But maybe not.

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/children-killed

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/accidental-deaths

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/teens-killed

    https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?year=2019

    'Murica, Woot!

    Woot.
    Okay, my 1% was exaggerated. None of those links were related to anything I said however. Domestic violence and accidents account for roughly 1000 gun deaths a year. So why do we focus on that and ignore the other 30,000+ ?
    My comment was about storage of ammo and how it is to prevent accidents and heated debates, not sure how all those links fit in. Locking ammo up separately won't prevent any of those accidents. SO now we're down to just focusing on about 500-600 out of the 30,000+ deaths. And not that 500-600 isn't worth considering, but my point was why continue to ignore much bigger factors? You didnt address that. 
     Locking them up separately doesn't seem like it would prevent the domestic heated argument either for reasons already discussed.
    Woot


    Care to clarify your comment about how we don't focus on gang violence or consider the "family structure?" Who does that refer to? Source of your 1,000 number for domestic violence and accidents total?

    And I wasn't commenting solely, or really at all, on your comments about separate storage of guns and ammo and folks having time to cool down. 40,000+ a year, no big deal, nothing can be done. I get where the pro-gun crowd is coming from. Nothing can be done. its a blip. Its minor. Nothing we can do will reduce the numbers, so why try. I get it.

    https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/
    In an average month, 50 American women are shot to death by intimate partners,4
    50 per month = 600 a year.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
    puts accidental shooting at about 500.

    Storing guns and ammo together has no impact on street violence. That is the topic that is being debated right now, and there is no reason to believe it would impact suicides, accidents, street violence. The only valuable argument was it would impact domestic violence. I disagree, but would admit there is at least some logic to that statement. Disagree because the time it takes to get to a gun safe, open it, load a gun, I don;t see moving to the next room or closet adding any meaningful amount of time to impact the situation. 

    Everyone knows violence is higher in broken homes and fatherless communities. No one wants to say it. Lets find ways to help single mothers, prevent teenage pregnancy to begin with that contributes to this. Reduce the cycle of poverty. All would have a bigger impact on gun violence than storing ammo in the closet next to the gun safe in a separate box.

    I've said many times I'm for background checks, registration, no gunshow loopholes and many other forms. I just don't see the logic that I can't lock my ammo up in my gun safe.
    Why do you posit that only women are the victims of domestic violence? Do the innocent men, children and innocent bystanders 
    count or are women the only victims of domestic violence in your thought process?
    You're right, it isn't just women. But when given the scenario that keeping guns and ammo separate is to help buy time during a heated argument so the victim can flea, you don't undertsand that the overwhelming majority the woman is the victim? Lets try to have a reasonable discussion instead of pointing out every tiny flaw in anyone's statement who believes something different than you. Its much more productive. Okay, so include women and children in the domestic violence murdered by guns stat, how many do you think that adds in relation to the scenario being discussed? 5? 10? Is that a significant difference worth debating over? Is it even going to change the estimated figure of 600?
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,435
    edited March 2019
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    With the currently elected president setting an example by acting like an immature, petulant, spoiled 5 yr old you should be okay with people not acting like an "adult".
    Fair point, back to being childish /s
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,353
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    I have never jerked off to a gun
    Me either.  Awesome stereotype. 
    It's a figure of speech, good grief guys.  Sorry I offended you all.
    I think this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the gun debate. Every gun owner on here that I've seen has stated they are for gun control.  But when they mention 1 aspect, that we don't see storing guns and ammo separately if guns are already properly stored, they is a slew of negative responses and stereotypes. I didn't see 1 serious question or comment about what could be more effective, but nearly 2 pages of putting gun owners down instead. Put your egos aside for a minute and listen and discuss. Gun owners are more than willing to compromise, but this attitude when we disagree with 1 thing is what feeds the fight against restrictions. Listen to what we all have said, but if you want zero compromise then go ahead and keep attacking gun owners. Its what prevents real change fro happening. Hoenstly, many in the anti-gun crown couldn't do a better work for the NRA if they tried.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
  • PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited March 2019
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 
    What kinds of things do you love doing?  People die in boating accidents all the time, should boats and fishing be illegal to save “even one life”?  I mean, it’s just a hobbie...?  
    I grew up similarly to tempo, but being in a farming and ranching family, firearm ownership was well beyond the confides of hobby use and were needed for everyday use (predator control, rattlesnakes, etc).  I don’t claim to know why someone in the inner city may feel the need to own one, just as I don’t expect them to know why a rancher would.  That’s why the only justification you really need is that it is your individual constitutional right to do so.  
    But, back to your point, how is tempo giving up his hobbie going to save a life (assuming he does follow safety measures and I have no reason to believe otherwise)?

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    edited March 2019
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 
    You phrase this in a way that will make me sound like a jerk if I disagree with it...  It's the equivalent of asking someone if they still beat their wife.

    I'm going to turn the tables around and ask that we all make cars that can only do 65mph because that saves lives.  No more speeding on the highway or roads, racing or motorsports for the sake of saving one life(s).

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,971
    edited March 2019
    Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

    And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,971
    And I guess these three kids don’t count in the domestic violence tally.

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/sheffield-fire-murder-suicide
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

    And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?
    Not sure when you can start reporting news on the actual millions of responsible gun owners.  I know you don't have it in you but it would be nice for once as you should also understand by now that every person you call "responsible" is not.  It just fits your rhetoric.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,483
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    I"m very similar; started walking the fields around 7 or 8 with my grand father and dad.  Shot a shot gun around age 8 or 9, got my hunting license at age ten.  The rest is history.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    And I guess these three kids don’t count in the domestic violence tally.

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/sheffield-fire-murder-suicide
    Not sure it should be in firearm stats until they find this part out:
    from your link 
    “The causes of death for the family members were not available as of Monday, but Harrington said the five bodies were taken to Boston for autopsies by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.”
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,971
    Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

    And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?
    Not sure when you can start reporting news on the actual millions of responsible gun owners.  I know you don't have it in you but it would be nice for once as you should also understand by now that every person you call "responsible" is not.  It just fits your rhetoric.
    Feel free to post away or start a thread. Just keeping it true to the thread title.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,947
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    This is getting a bit silly.  People say that no one needs quick access to a firearm and say that it is “fear” driving them to think someone will break into their house (some say they don’t even lock their doors).  And then in the same breath people are “afraid” of a criminal breaking into someone’s house and stealing their guns and ammo that are stored together in a secure vault?  Lol. Do we fear people breaking in or not???
    Lol. Great point 
    No it's not. Almost all burglaries are undertaken when nobody is home. So the concern about guns being stolen is a realistic one, while the fear of being invaded while the homeowner is actually there so that they can defend themselves with a gun is not so much. But FWIW, I don't think keeping ammo separate from guns has anything to do with gun theft.
    That’s why you get a dog, people will rarely break into places with a dog barking at them.  Those schizophrenia inducing cats won’t protect shit! 
    Instead of locking doors, my parents used to keep a light on inside, turn the radio on, and post a beware of dog sign on the door. We never had a dog, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,947

    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 
    You phrase this in a way that will make me sound like a jerk if I disagree with it...  It's the equivalent of asking someone if they still beat their wife.

    I'm going to turn the tables around and ask that we all make cars that can only do 65mph because that saves lives.  No more speeding on the highway or roads, racing or motorsports for the sake of saving one life(s).

    I think that car idea is fantastic. Cars should not be made to go faster than the max speed limit unless they are race cars. That would definitely prevent deaths.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,947
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    I"m very similar; started walking the fields around 7 or 8 with my grand father and dad.  Shot a shot gun around age 8 or 9, got my hunting license at age ten.  The rest is history.  
    Killing at age 10 would have fucked me up in the head badly.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

    And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?
    Not sure when you can start reporting news on the actual millions of responsible gun owners.  I know you don't have it in you but it would be nice for once as you should also understand by now that every person you call "responsible" is not.  It just fits your rhetoric.
    Feel free to post away or start a thread. Just keeping it true to the thread title.
    We had a gun positivity thread and people shit all over that so why try another when you know what the outcome would be.  There are only like 3 of us anyways...
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    This is getting a bit silly.  People say that no one needs quick access to a firearm and say that it is “fear” driving them to think someone will break into their house (some say they don’t even lock their doors).  And then in the same breath people are “afraid” of a criminal breaking into someone’s house and stealing their guns and ammo that are stored together in a secure vault?  Lol. Do we fear people breaking in or not???
    Lol. Great point 
    No it's not. Almost all burglaries are undertaken when nobody is home. So the concern about guns being stolen is a realistic one, while the fear of being invaded while the homeowner is actually there so that they can defend themselves with a gun is not so much. But FWIW, I don't think keeping ammo separate from guns has anything to do with gun theft.
    That’s why you get a dog, people will rarely break into places with a dog barking at them.  Those schizophrenia inducing cats won’t protect shit! 
    Instead of locking doors, my parents used to keep a light on inside, turn the radio on, and post a beware of dog sign on the door. We never had a dog, lol.
    You and a few others have made me realize how to figure out if someone in Canada isn't home, just check the door.

    Locked=not home
    unlocked=home
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,353
    And I guess these three kids don’t count in the domestic violence tally.

    https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/sheffield-fire-murder-suicide
    Not sure if you take everything out of context on purpose or not. The whole domestic violence was brought up as a defense for storing guns and ammo separately, in order to give the victim extra time to flea. Those of us who own and properly store guns don't agree with that assessment. 
    Not sure how this is related at all to anything we've been talking about. Are you suggesting if he stored his ammo separately that would have given him extra time to think about his act and he would not have set his house on fire? If not, then it isn't related to the domestic violence discussion that was going on and not sure why it was posted here.
  • PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 
    You phrase this in a way that will make me sound like a jerk if I disagree with it...  It's the equivalent of asking someone if they still beat their wife.

    I'm going to turn the tables around and ask that we all make cars that can only do 65mph because that saves lives.  No more speeding on the highway or roads, racing or motorsports for the sake of saving one life(s).

    actually, that's not turning the tables at all. I have said for decades that it is utterly incomprehensible that we make cars that can go triple of what is deemed safe for humans to drive publicly. I'd be completely on board with all cars capping at 65mph and emergency vehicles obviously being exempt from this. 

    no, i wasn't trying to frame it that you'd sound like a jerk. I suppose I can see how you'd take it that way. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    This is getting a bit silly.  People say that no one needs quick access to a firearm and say that it is “fear” driving them to think someone will break into their house (some say they don’t even lock their doors).  And then in the same breath people are “afraid” of a criminal breaking into someone’s house and stealing their guns and ammo that are stored together in a secure vault?  Lol. Do we fear people breaking in or not???
    Lol. Great point 
    No it's not. Almost all burglaries are undertaken when nobody is home. So the concern about guns being stolen is a realistic one, while the fear of being invaded while the homeowner is actually there so that they can defend themselves with a gun is not so much. But FWIW, I don't think keeping ammo separate from guns has anything to do with gun theft.
    That’s why you get a dog, people will rarely break into places with a dog barking at them.  Those schizophrenia inducing cats won’t protect shit! 
    Instead of locking doors, my parents used to keep a light on inside, turn the radio on, and post a beware of dog sign on the door. We never had a dog, lol.
    You and a few others have made me realize how to figure out if someone in Canada isn't home, just check the door.

    Locked=not home
    unlocked=home
    isn't that how it works everywhere? or do you keep your doors locked when home? the only time my doors are locked at home is when i'm sleeping or in the shower. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 
    What kinds of things do you love doing?  People die in boating accidents all the time, should boats and fishing be illegal to save “even one life”?  I mean, it’s just a hobbie...?  
    I grew up similarly to tempo, but being in a farming and ranching family, firearm ownership was well beyond the confides of hobby use and were needed for everyday use (predator control, rattlesnakes, etc).  I don’t claim to know why someone in the inner city may feel the need to own one, just as I don’t expect them to know why a rancher would.  That’s why the only justification you really need is that it is your individual constitutional right to do so.  
    But, back to your point, how is tempo giving up his hobbie going to save a life (assuming he does follow safety measures and I have no reason to believe otherwise)?

    what I mean is, if guns were to be made illegal. would he be ok with that knowing it would save lives?

    hypothetically speaking, obviously, because this makes no sense, but it's my hobby: if guitars were the cause of hundreds of thousands of deaths per year, even though I used my responsibly, growing up playing guitar, if they made them illegal, I'd be sad, and annoyed that others couldn't be like me, but I'd understand it's for the greater good to take them away from everyone. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,353
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!
    I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?
    The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

    I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

    Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.
    I"m very similar; started walking the fields around 7 or 8 with my grand father and dad.  Shot a shot gun around age 8 or 9, got my hunting license at age ten.  The rest is history.  
    Every one I know who spent time growing up around guns has more respect for them. We never went hunting, but my dad took me shooting on my 10th birthday and got my first .22 that day. It was always a big bonding experience I looked forward too, and now that my dad is almost 70 it something he looks forward to as much as I did when I was little.
    Learning to handle and respect guns is not a bad thing, building relationships with family is not a bad thing. I've taken some adult friends in their 20s and 30s shooting for the first time, and it is the ones who have never held a gun that do stupid stuff, and I yell at them and never take them back out again.
    I know that because you do something like this as a kid doesn't mean you won't turn out to be a bad person, but there is a lot of evidence to support that spending time with your father and learning how to handle a firearm will reduce those chances.  I don't know why so many act disgusted by that. 
This discussion has been closed.