America's Gun Violence

Halifax2TheMax

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Not to mention, firearms were actually allowed on campuses back then.  I remember almost all pickups of the parking lot having gun racks and loaded firearms resting in them.  

Not here in NY maybe in backwoods states like were you live not here I never saw any rifles on back of pickup truck windows ...

We also don't have mass shootings in NY if you want to go that route.

In the last 30 years gun deaths have gone up, fact.

What else has happened that would mirror this phenomenon?

Internet?
Different laws towards Mental Health?
No spanking your kids?
Not disciplining your kids?
Medicating ourselves rather than getting real help?

Gun laws have actually increased over the years not decreased so there HAS to be an other underlying cause.

Tempo I definitely agree with all those changes.  I also think the internet, 24 hour news cycle and social media has had a huge impact on the rise of mass shootings.

Is the US the only country that has the internet, 24 hour news and social media?

riley540

dignin said:

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

Social media, news, ect. I think it’s all contributing. The major difference between now and the 1980s is the full time access to media. It’s in our hands all day 

Any evidence to back that up? Because there is a lot of evidence to show that there are a lot more guns out there today, and a lot more assault style weapons.

This isn't complicated, as much as some try and make it complicated.

What i beileive is important is determining the error is some people that motivate them to do heinous acts. 

If you could determine the "error" in some people, then what?

Figure out a way to prevent it. Make it so people can notices these issues in certain people. Once you determine the problem, figure out what causes the problem, and work on a solution. 
I have no interest in owning an AR15, I’m not s gun person. I’m just looking at evidence, and there’s no evidence that says school shooting would stop or be reduced if we ban that gun. If that gun is banned, I’m sure they will just use another gun or weapon. 

riley540

They outlawed treble hooks on the kenai when I was a kid, so I fished with a single hook and killed just as many fish. Although the treble was an easier tool 

josevolution

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

Social media, news, ect. I think it’s all contributing. The major difference between now and the 1980s is the full time access to media. It’s in our hands all day 

Any evidence to back that up? Because there is a lot of evidence to show that there are a lot more guns out there today, and a lot more assault style weapons.

This isn't complicated, as much as some try and make it complicated.

What i beileive is important is determining the error is some people that motivate them to do heinous acts. 

If you could determine the "error" in some people, then what?

Figure out a way to prevent it. Make it so people can notices these issues in certain people. Once you determine the problem, figure out what causes the problem, and work on a solution. 
I have no interest in owning an AR15, I’m not s gun person. I’m just looking at evidence, and there’s no evidence that says school shooting would stop or be reduced if we ban that gun. If that gun is banned, I’m sure they will just use another gun or weapon. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Not to mention, firearms were actually allowed on campuses back then.  I remember almost all pickups of the parking lot having gun racks and loaded firearms resting in them.  

Not here in NY maybe in backwoods states like were you live not here I never saw any rifles on back of pickup truck windows ...

We also don't have mass shootings in NY if you want to go that route.

In the last 30 years gun deaths have gone up, fact.

What else has happened that would mirror this phenomenon?

Internet?
Different laws towards Mental Health?
No spanking your kids?
Not disciplining your kids?
Medicating ourselves rather than getting real help?

Gun laws have actually increased over the years not decreased so there HAS to be an other underlying cause.

Tempo I definitely agree with all those changes.  I also think the internet, 24 hour news cycle and social media has had a huge impact on the rise of mass shootings.

Is the US the only country that has the internet, 24 hour news and social media?

Yes & were the only country with people who suffer from mental illness 

Halifax2TheMax

riley540 said:

They outlawed treble hooks on the kenai when I was a kid, so I fished with a single hook and killed just as many fish. Although the treble was an easier tool 

But you became less efficient, right? At fishing?

unsung

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Social media.  News cycle.  Glorifying these losers.

Stop naming them on national TV, some people do this for that reason.  

Don't let them plea bargain to avoid the death penalty.

unsung

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Not to mention, firearms were actually allowed on campuses back then.  I remember almost all pickups of the parking lot having gun racks and loaded firearms resting in them.  

Not here in NY maybe in backwoods states like were you live not here I never saw any rifles on back of pickup truck windows ...

Upstate rural NY is nothing like NYC.

josevolution

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

Social media, news, ect. I think it’s all contributing. The major difference between now and the 1980s is the full time access to media. It’s in our hands all day 

Any evidence to back that up? Because there is a lot of evidence to show that there are a lot more guns out there today, and a lot more assault style weapons.

This isn't complicated, as much as some try and make it complicated.

What i beileive is important is determining the error is some people that motivate them to do heinous acts. 

If you could determine the "error" in some people, then what?

Figure out a way to prevent it. Make it so people can notices these issues in certain people. Once you determine the problem, figure out what causes the problem, and work on a solution. 
I have no interest in owning an AR15, I’m not s gun person. I’m just looking at evidence, and there’s no evidence that says school shooting would stop or be reduced if we ban that gun. If that gun is banned, I’m sure they will just use another gun or weapon. 

So you want all citizens to be trained to look out for crazy people who might go on a shooting spree ok yeah that’s easier than to pass an actual law banning this particular weapon ...you see you’ve already given up unlike the Kids who actually survived this massacre and are determined to get their point across ..

Shyner

There really needs to be a room of power figuring out how to reform sincerity. 
Love can change the world. 

unsung

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Not to mention, firearms were actually allowed on campuses back then.  I remember almost all pickups of the parking lot having gun racks and loaded firearms resting in them.  

Not here in NY maybe in backwoods states like were you live not here I never saw any rifles on back of pickup truck windows ...

We also don't have mass shootings in NY if you want to go that route.

In the last 30 years gun deaths have gone up, fact.

What else has happened that would mirror this phenomenon?

Internet?
Different laws towards Mental Health?
No spanking your kids?
Not disciplining your kids?
Medicating ourselves rather than getting real help?

Gun laws have actually increased over the years not decreased so there HAS to be an other underlying cause.

Parents wanting to be their kid's best friend instead of their parent.

unsung

riley540 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Not to mention, firearms were actually allowed on campuses back then.  I remember almost all pickups of the parking lot having gun racks and loaded firearms resting in them.  

Not here in NY maybe in backwoods states like were you live not here I never saw any rifles on back of pickup truck windows ...

We also don't have mass shootings in NY if you want to go that route.

In the last 30 years gun deaths have gone up, fact.

What else has happened that would mirror this phenomenon?

Internet?
Different laws towards Mental Health?
No spanking your kids?
Not disciplining your kids?
Medicating ourselves rather than getting real help?

Gun laws have actually increased over the years not decreased so there HAS to be an other underlying cause.

According to FBI statistics gun deaths have actually been on a decline the past 20 years in the US

Shhhhhhhhhhhh.  They hate when facts are brought up.

riley540

josevolution said:

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

dignin said:

riley540 said:

Social media, news, ect. I think it’s all contributing. The major difference between now and the 1980s is the full time access to media. It’s in our hands all day 

Any evidence to back that up? Because there is a lot of evidence to show that there are a lot more guns out there today, and a lot more assault style weapons.

This isn't complicated, as much as some try and make it complicated.

What i beileive is important is determining the error is some people that motivate them to do heinous acts. 

If you could determine the "error" in some people, then what?

Figure out a way to prevent it. Make it so people can notices these issues in certain people. Once you determine the problem, figure out what causes the problem, and work on a solution. 
I have no interest in owning an AR15, I’m not s gun person. I’m just looking at evidence, and there’s no evidence that says school shooting would stop or be reduced if we ban that gun. If that gun is banned, I’m sure they will just use another gun or weapon. 

So you want all citizens to be trained to look out for crazy people who might go on a shooting spree ok yeah that’s easier than to pass an actual law banning this particular weapon ...you see you’ve already given up unlike the Kids who actually survived this massacre and are determined to get their point across ..

There’s thousands of AR15s in circulation and over 300,000 guns in the US. If you think banning a gun will prevent school shootings, you aren’t making an evidence based argument. The evidence doesn’t say people shoot school because they can buy AR15s. 
Also, if it’s against the law, why would a person who’s gearing up to MURDER people follow the law that he can’t use an AR15? 

Its a deeper problem than the AR15

mcgruff10

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Not to mention, firearms were actually allowed on campuses back then.  I remember almost all pickups of the parking lot having gun racks and loaded firearms resting in them.  

Not here in NY maybe in backwoods states like were you live not here I never saw any rifles on back of pickup truck windows ...

We also don't have mass shootings in NY if you want to go that route.

In the last 30 years gun deaths have gone up, fact.

What else has happened that would mirror this phenomenon?

Internet?
Different laws towards Mental Health?
No spanking your kids?
Not disciplining your kids?
Medicating ourselves rather than getting real help?

Gun laws have actually increased over the years not decreased so there HAS to be an other underlying cause.

Tempo I definitely agree with all those changes.  I also think the internet, 24 hour news cycle and social media has had a huge impact on the rise of mass shootings.

Is the US the only country that has the internet, 24 hour news and social media?

Yes

riley540

Halifax2TheMax said:

riley540 said:

They outlawed treble hooks on the kenai when I was a kid, so I fished with a single hook and killed just as many fish. Although the treble was an easier tool 

But you became less efficient, right? At fishing?

Don’t know! I’ve had incredible days on the kenai with my single hook! Point is, they outlawed something, so I used something else. And then the d-bags still used trebles illegally. 

rgambs

unsung said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Social media.  News cycle.  Glorifying these losers.

Stop naming them on national TV, some people do this for that reason.  

Don't let them plea bargain to avoid the death penalty.

So if a crazy person is determined to kill, they will find a gun no matter what, but if we stop naming them on TV and threaten death penalty, their determination will magically fizzle?

This is what bothers me about the gun advocate crowd, it's the most disingenuous and flip flopping debate crowd that exists.
"They are determined, laws won't stop them"
"50 blue million distractions that we should address instead of laws"

"I specifically need an AR to hunt dangerous game in the bush"
"It is the exact same gun as a this innocuous looking thing, it isn't any more effective"

"It's a mental health/psychotropic drug issue"
"We can't take guns away or prevent access based on mental health"

The list goes on and it's astounding.

Bentleyspop

America is the land of opportunity. 
Today  I had the opportunity  to go visit the memorials for the the 17 killed at Stoneman-Douglas High School.
Today I had the opportunity  to visit the memorial for Scott Beigel. The teacher killed defending his students.
Scott Beigel was a Pearl Jam fan.
He no longer has the opportunity  to go to another PJ show.
He no longer has the opportunity  because some kid had the opportunity  to walk into a gun store and buy a military style assult rifle.
No one should have that opportunity.
No one needs a military style assault rifle for personal use.
I don't  ever again want the opportunity to visit the memorials for children shot and killed while at school.

mcgruff10

CM189191 said:

Occam's razor: "Entities are not to be multiplied without necessity"
For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives. Since one can always burden failing explanations with ad hoc hypotheses to prevent them from being falsified, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they are more testable.

principle (or law) of parsimony

the scientific principle that things are usually connected or behave in the simplest or most economical way, especially with reference to alternative evolutionary pathways.

list of things that do not cause gun violence:
video games
rap music
mental health
gang culture
gun culture
hunting culture
religious extremism
immigrants
racism
poverty
medication
parenting
social media
24 hour news cycle

list of things that do cause gun violence:
guns

I don’t know about that. As a kid and young adult my dad would walk into a hardware store and buy all the military surplus from world war 2 he wanted. This included bazookas, grease guns (legit assault weapons), m1 garand s, etc., the definition of weapons of war. It was beyond easy to buy, no background checks nada.  And yet no one blew shit up with a bazooka or went on a killing spree with these weapons. Society changed somehow and a lot of things you mentioned were not as prevalent in the 50’s and 60’s.  Today s ar 15 was yesterday’s tommy gun. 

vaggar99

once upon a time if you would commit a mass shooting, you'd get your picture on national tv for a week or two, but then you'd largely fall into obscurity.
well now, you'll get your picture on world wide tv/social media and whatever else and there's a 100% guarantee of Youtube and Wikipedia fame.
and so, the risk/reward factor is much lower now.

Halifax2TheMax

rgambs said:

unsung said:

josevolution said:

Funny I attended high school in the early 70’s I can’t recall not one mass school shooting happening, why ? Are they happening now with such frequency? 

Social media.  News cycle.  Glorifying these losers.

Stop naming them on national TV, some people do this for that reason.  

Don't let them plea bargain to avoid the death penalty.

So if a crazy person is determined to kill, they will find a gun no matter what, but if we stop naming them on TV and threaten death penalty, their determination will magically fizzle?

This is what bothers me about the gun advocate crowd, it's the most disingenuous and flip flopping debate crowd that exists.
"They are determined, laws won't stop them"
"50 blue million distractions that we should address instead of laws"

"I specifically need an AR to hunt dangerous game in the bush"
"It is the exact same gun as a this innocuous looking thing, it isn't any more effective"

"It's a mental health/psychotropic drug issue"
"We can't take guns away or prevent access based on mental health"

The list goes on and it's astounding.

Particularly in the face of existing fact based evidence. Benj posted a shit ton of it this morning. Arbitrarily dismissed out of hand. And around we go. And if anyone thinks the current repubes across the land are going to change things, I’ve got a bridge I’ll sell you.

josevolution

So here we are again I’ll leave now but I’m sure I’ll be back again & again , when do you think this country will get it’s fill of these massacres next yr next week next month or never ?