America's Gun Violence

mattsl1983

PJ_Soul said:

I just don't understand your "good for them" statements, lol. It's legal to do something awful so good for them? I'm not sure why you find that necessary to say if you don't even approve of the gratuitous killing. I mean.... picking your nose and flicking it in public is legal too, but I don't say "good for them" because they've decided to do it.   And killing an innocent animal for pleasure is a hell of a lot worse than the flick and pick.

I use the phrase "good for them" as in they have the legal right and ability to do something and they do it.  Another example but this time substituting the word them for the word you.  "You have an opinion on guns that I disagree with, good for you."

PJ_Soul

The thing about just removing all guns is that it's not necessary, and I do believe there are still legit reasons to own a legal firearm. The reason we know it's not necessary is because there are so many other countries that don't just have a 100% banning of firearms and they don't have the issues that America does. The reason I would want to prevent everyone from owning any guns is possibly going to sound stupid.... but I always think about the people who have real concerns to fear for their safety and have a specific reason to carry a gun for protection. I'm not talking just general, unfounded paranoia. I mean those who have a crazy ass ex stalking them or something like that. People who have been threatened directly, and nighttime clerks at liquor or convenience stores in high crime areas where a lot of the criminals have illegal guns. But the hobbyists? Yeah, screw them. I couldn't care less if they like to play with deadly toys. Take up paintball FFS.

ledvedderman

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 

dignin

I have no problem with hunters and guns designed for hunting. The rest of the guns out there are malarkey. 

mcgruff10

Big second amendment guy here with three simple laws that could do a lot of good:
1. Multiple Background checks: criminal and mental
2. Every gun you buy should be registered 
3.  Some sort of mandatory safety/education course before first initial buy. 

PJ_Soul

ledvedderman said:

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 

I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.

mattsl1983

I guess I'm an idiot because removing all guns seems like a no brainer to reducing violence and improving society. How could it not? This is no longer primitive times so why do we still think and respond primitively? How much of the food the average person eats in a given year is actually procured via hunting in some way? Seriously, I don't know, but it can't be more then 5%. Yet, we're not doing anything about guns because of hunters and hobby shooters? 

Five percent of the US is roughly 16 million people. 

It is our right to own guns.  If we can control illegal guns and get them off the streets then we could mildly entertain the idea of a gun ban or further limit who has access to them.  But a gun ban does nothing to address the gun problems we have.  You are just taking away from legal owners and rewarding illegal owners.

PJ_Soul

mattsl1983 said:

I guess I'm an idiot because removing all guns seems like a no brainer to reducing violence and improving society. How could it not? This is no longer primitive times so why do we still think and respond primitively? How much of the food the average person eats in a given year is actually procured via hunting in some way? Seriously, I don't know, but it can't be more then 5%. Yet, we're not doing anything about guns because of hunters and hobby shooters? 

Five percent of the US is roughly 16 million people. 

It is our right to own guns.  If we can control illegal guns and get them off the streets then we could mildly entertain the idea of a gun ban or further limit who has access to them.  But a gun ban does nothing to address the gun problems we have.  You are just taking away from legal owners and rewarding illegal owners.

Right. It's the obsession with guns that has to stop..... that will take several generations if Americans start actually working on it today. But they aren't, so obviously there is no solution in site. I don't have any hope in America working this problem out in any of our lifetimes. I think it will just get worse, actually. And I always fear that this problem will slowly bleed into Canada as well. It hasn't yet, but I still worry about it.

mattsl1983

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

I guess I'm an idiot because removing all guns seems like a no brainer to reducing violence and improving society. How could it not? This is no longer primitive times so why do we still think and respond primitively? How much of the food the average person eats in a given year is actually procured via hunting in some way? Seriously, I don't know, but it can't be more then 5%. Yet, we're not doing anything about guns because of hunters and hobby shooters? 

Five percent of the US is roughly 16 million people. 

It is our right to own guns.  If we can control illegal guns and get them off the streets then we could mildly entertain the idea of a gun ban or further limit who has access to them.  But a gun ban does nothing to address the gun problems we have.  You are just taking away from legal owners and rewarding illegal owners.

Right. It's the obsession with guns that has to stop..... that will take several generations if Americans start actually working on it today. But they aren't, so obviously there is no solution in site. I don't have any hope in America working this problem out in any of our lifetimes. I think it will just get worse, actually. And I always fear that this problem will slowly bleed into Canada as well. It hasn't yet, but I still worry about it.
As for the hunting/food question... I think there are very few people in the USA who actually have to hunt in order to eat. 5% seems like a very huge number to me if we're talking necessity.

Please explain this "gun obsession" that keeps getting thrown out.  I really don't understand it at all.  It's a term that I really don't get.  

tbergs

ledvedderman said:

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 

While we're controlling the animal population, who's controlling our population? And seriously, isn't animal over population a human created issue based on displacement of natural predators and environment?

PJ_Soul

mattsl1983 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

I guess I'm an idiot because removing all guns seems like a no brainer to reducing violence and improving society. How could it not? This is no longer primitive times so why do we still think and respond primitively? How much of the food the average person eats in a given year is actually procured via hunting in some way? Seriously, I don't know, but it can't be more then 5%. Yet, we're not doing anything about guns because of hunters and hobby shooters? 

Five percent of the US is roughly 16 million people. 

It is our right to own guns.  If we can control illegal guns and get them off the streets then we could mildly entertain the idea of a gun ban or further limit who has access to them.  But a gun ban does nothing to address the gun problems we have.  You are just taking away from legal owners and rewarding illegal owners.

Right. It's the obsession with guns that has to stop..... that will take several generations if Americans start actually working on it today. But they aren't, so obviously there is no solution in site. I don't have any hope in America working this problem out in any of our lifetimes. I think it will just get worse, actually. And I always fear that this problem will slowly bleed into Canada as well. It hasn't yet, but I still worry about it.
As for the hunting/food question... I think there are very few people in the USA who actually have to hunt in order to eat. 5% seems like a very huge number to me if we're talking necessity.

Please explain this "gun obsession" that keeps getting thrown out.  I really don't understand it at all.  It's a term that I really don't get.  

I'm just talking about the fixation that America has on guns. The one that causes them to rabidly claim that it's their god given right and to resist regulation, the one that makes gun stores and gun shows common place, the one that has guns being sold in department stores, the one that inspires people to cheer on a fucking politician running for office who pulls out a fucking pistol during a campaign rally, and the one that makes it legal to carry guns to political rallies or stalk Muslims outside of their mosques with a gun hanging off a shoulder, and the one that inspires people to proudly pose with guns for their Christmas cards and facebook pages .... FYI, those things are really, REALLY not normal at all in other developed nations. Yes, American citizens are obsessed with guns compared to the rest of the world.

JimmyV

We have the right to own guns. We don't have the right to own an unlimited number of guns or to possess an unlimited amount of ammunition. We could limit the number of guns an individual could own and not infringe on the right to bear arms. The intent of the founders was not that someone could house an arsenal in their basement.

Limiting the number of guns one can own would lower the number of guns that are sold. This would cause manufacturers to lower their production. Fewer guns being produced would lead to fewer guns ending up on the street in the hands of criminals. Make the guns harder to get.

Smellyman

Yeeeehhhaaaaaaawwwww

Guns are awesome!  More guns! 



I am not obsessed, I just love my fucking guns.

tempo_n_groove

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

I guess I'm an idiot because removing all guns seems like a no brainer to reducing violence and improving society. How could it not? This is no longer primitive times so why do we still think and respond primitively? How much of the food the average person eats in a given year is actually procured via hunting in some way? Seriously, I don't know, but it can't be more then 5%. Yet, we're not doing anything about guns because of hunters and hobby shooters? 

Five percent of the US is roughly 16 million people. 

It is our right to own guns.  If we can control illegal guns and get them off the streets then we could mildly entertain the idea of a gun ban or further limit who has access to them.  But a gun ban does nothing to address the gun problems we have.  You are just taking away from legal owners and rewarding illegal owners.

Right. It's the obsession with guns that has to stop..... that will take several generations if Americans start actually working on it today. But they aren't, so obviously there is no solution in site. I don't have any hope in America working this problem out in any of our lifetimes. I think it will just get worse, actually. And I always fear that this problem will slowly bleed into Canada as well. It hasn't yet, but I still worry about it.
As for the hunting/food question... I think there are very few people in the USA who actually have to hunt in order to eat. 5% seems like a very huge number to me if we're talking necessity.

Please explain this "gun obsession" that keeps getting thrown out.  I really don't understand it at all.  It's a term that I really don't get.  

I'm just talking about the fixation that America has on guns. The one that causes them to rabidly claim that it's their god given right and to resist regulation, the one that makes gun stores and gun shows common place, the one that has guns being sold in department stores, the one that inspires people to cheer on a fucking politician running for office who pulls out a fucking pistol during a campaign rally, and the one that makes it legal to carry guns to political rallies or stalk Muslims outside of their mosques with a gun hanging off a shoulder, and the one that inspires people to proudly pose with guns for their Christmas cards and facebook pages .... FYI, those things are really, REALLY not normal at all in other developed nations. Yes, American citizens are obsessed with guns compared to the rest of the world.

You just took the worst situations and painted everyone whom is a firearm enthusiast with one big broad stroke...  Bravo.

Smellyman

'firearm enthusiast' 

better sounding than gun nut

bootlegger10

josevolution said:

Yeah i guess we can all safely say this kind of event won't be duplicated no ....

It really sucks but should we go full on police state to save 100-200 lives a year that are killed in mass shootings?   Millions die every year of something.  Thousands of kids die each year because of childhood illnesses.  It sucks but bad things happen in a number of ways.  Car accidents, sports accidents, heart attack, allergies, etc.....  

vaggar99

mattsl1983 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

At a certain point, when the bodies are piling up by the dozens, I simply no longer have any fucks to give about somebody's hobby.
Seriously.

Gotta agree here. There are bigger concerns and there are other hobbies.

The problem is, if the guns were acquired illegally, what's your solution?  A bag of bullets won't do you any good if there is no gun to to shoot, just like a gun does no good if there is no one to shoot it.  Now you are just limiting someone else's rights for something that wouldn't have prevented this or any similar shootings from happening just because you think it would.  That's the problem with arguing for stricter gun laws, no suggestion that has been made prevents the events from happening.  I think more focus should be on us as a society that has a fascination with violence as opposed to the gun restrictions.  Gun restrictions are in place in places like Chicago.  I've never heard of gun violence in Chicago. 

I would never argue against greater gun restrictions just because I think people absolutely should have to jump through hoops to get them legally, and that includes having access to private medical information and juvenile criminal records, and also an alert that shows anytime a police officer looks up a legal gun owner's info. I also don't think using guns seems like something that should be hobby at all. They are weapons, not toys. Guns as a hobby seems ludicrous to me. I am also adamantly against sport hunting because I think it is SICK to get pleasure out of killing. However, I do totally agree with you about the real probably being the gun culture, as I've stated many times. Until this twisted fascination with and glorification of guns is gone in the mindset of citizens, America will not be free of their gun problem. But.... I think gun regulations could certainly contribute to causing this gun culture to slowly die out. If it becomes so hard to get guns legally that a big portion of normal society decides it's more trouble than it's worth, that would go a long way in the long term, since they would be less likely to pass this love of guns down to their kids, a stigma against guns would grow (and yes, that's a good thing IMO), and a large number of them would just find other hobbies. Nobody loves a hobby that is more a pain in the ass than anything else.

I am all for having to take a psych exam in order to obtain a fire arm.  I'm all for every so many years having to retake one. I'm against access to private medical records and being on some sort of police alert list.  The problem with society isn't love of guns (this is where the argument always gets lost on me), it's with violence.  I don't care if someone's hobby is to go shooting.  Good for them.  If they like trophy hunting and it's legal, good for those hunters.  I'm not going to take away someone else's hobbies or things they like to do because I personally don't like it or agree with it.  At that point, you are just taking away from people because you disagree with them with no factual basis that it improves society.  

if you are considering owning any kind of assault weapon, you've already failed the exam.  This country is a joke.

vaggar99

a little bitch
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Thirty Bills Unpaid

One guy killed or injured over 500 people in (roughly) one hour?

One guy. From one vantage point. Wow. 

I was in Seattle this weekend at the Seahawks game. I picked up the Pearl Jam Rolling Stone magazine on Saturday. As I was browsing the magazine rack... I saw a Guns n' Ammo magazine titled... simply... 'AR15'. There's a magazine for the gun 'enthusiast' where they can look at pictures of an AR15? At the time I saw the title... I kind of chuckled. Looking back at that moment... it seems almost a it of a foreshadowing event.

When we got back to the hotel after the game... I was mortified by the news that was unfolding in real time. Absolutely horrific.

Sorry to put it this way to the 'defenders of the right', but now is actually a moment that is supposed to concern you for the safety of your neighbours and children... not a moment where you feel the need to concern yourself for the preservation of your hobby. 

This is the blueprint for the next mass murder: stay outside of security checkpoints... let people clump together... and then open fire with your rapid fire weapons coupled with large capacity magazines into hordes where you simply cannot miss and they simply cannot flee fast enough. Scary.

This was at the hands of an amateur too. This shithead was a pencil necked coward that wreaked havoc from his makeshift rat hole. As devastating as he proved to be... it could have been worse if it had been a shithead skilled with weapons. 

josevolution

Ok let's just start with putting a restriction on how many guns you can legally purchase go ahead put a number on it is 10 enough !