America's Gun Violence

mattsl1983

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

At a certain point, when the bodies are piling up by the dozens, I simply no longer have any fucks to give about somebody's hobby.
Seriously.

Gotta agree here. There are bigger concerns and there are other hobbies.

The problem is, if the guns were acquired illegally, what's your solution?  A bag of bullets won't do you any good if there is no gun to to shoot, just like a gun does no good if there is no one to shoot it.  Now you are just limiting someone else's rights for something that wouldn't have prevented this or any similar shootings from happening just because you think it would.  That's the problem with arguing for stricter gun laws, no suggestion that has been made prevents the events from happening.  I think more focus should be on us as a society that has a fascination with violence as opposed to the gun restrictions.  Gun restrictions are in place in places like Chicago.  I've never heard of gun violence in Chicago. 

bootlegger10

josevolution said:

bootlegger10 said:

josevolution said:

bootlegger10 said:

josevolution said:

pjhawks said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

oftenreading said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I always wonder how someone that could do such a horrific thing could not have given off some clues about their mental instability.

Please don't equate violence and mental "instability"/mental illness. 

Come on. I'm not saying mental instability equals violence. I'm saying to commit violence in this manner, something is wrong with your way of thinking and I would think your behavior beforehand would likely indicate something, at least in hindsight.

here is the part i don't get. they said he checked on Thursday. Are you telling me no one cleaned his room and/or saw anything in that room since Thursday? it is that easy to hide high powered rifles and ammo?

Never mind how about the fact that he was able to just get all those items into casino ? he could of just left the do not disturbe sign on door they absolutly respect those ....

Could have easily brought that stuff in a golf bag.  Definitely big enough and no one would look twice at it.

So the answer is to do what to avoid this kind of scenario ?

For now I don't think hotels should do anything.  I don't want to live in a police state and that is what happened with the Patriot Act.   Now if these type of hotel shootings continue then I think the hotels would need to act.

We need stronger gun control legislation for sure.

Stronger legislation lol like that could ever happen remember sandy hook nothing nada zilch happened after that event , tell me what's kepping the next mass murdered from taking aim from another hotel why is it that we have to go thru security check points at every airport , it seems to me that if hotels made it imposible for you to just walk in with as many guns & ammo lives could be saved ...But the fear of a police state is worse than anything that could be done to save lives .....

Because we don't need to have safety checks at thousands of hotels because one person went crazy.   Planes have a little more history of this shit.  

josevolution

Yeah im there i know it's shocking that 58 humans were gunned down but i know we will be here again talking about this issue again & again ! with more casualties ...so i feel TP dying hits closer to home for me shit day all around ....

PJ_Soul

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

At a certain point, when the bodies are piling up by the dozens, I simply no longer have any fucks to give about somebody's hobby.
Seriously.

Gotta agree here. There are bigger concerns and there are other hobbies.

The problem is, if the guns were acquired illegally, what's your solution?  A bag of bullets won't do you any good if there is no gun to to shoot, just like a gun does no good if there is no one to shoot it.  Now you are just limiting someone else's rights for something that wouldn't have prevented this or any similar shootings from happening just because you think it would.  That's the problem with arguing for stricter gun laws, no suggestion that has been made prevents the events from happening.  I think more focus should be on us as a society that has a fascination with violence as opposed to the gun restrictions.  Gun restrictions are in place in places like Chicago.  I've never heard of gun violence in Chicago. 

I would never argue against greater gun restrictions just because I think people absolutely should have to jump through hoops to get them legally, and that includes having access to private medical information and juvenile criminal records, and also an alert that shows anytime a police officer looks up a legal gun owner's info. I also don't think using guns seems like something that should be hobby at all. They are weapons, not toys. Guns as a hobby seems ludicrous to me. I am also adamantly against sport hunting because I think it is SICK to get pleasure out of killing. However, I do totally agree with you about the real probably being the gun culture, as I've stated many times. Until this twisted fascination with and glorification of guns is gone in the mindset of citizens, America will not be free of their gun problem. But.... I think gun regulations could certainly contribute to causing this gun culture to slowly die out. If it becomes so hard to get guns legally that a big portion of normal society decides it's more trouble than it's worth, that would go a long way in the long term, since they would be less likely to pass this love of guns down to their kids, a stigma against guns would grow (and yes, that's a good thing IMO), and a large number of them would just find other hobbies. Nobody loves a hobby that is more a pain in the ass than anything else.

mattsl1983

THe reason Tom Petty's death hits closer to home is because most of us have a connection through music and memories with him and the art he gave us.  There is a direct relationship.  It's something you process on a personal level. 

josevolution

bootlegger10 said:

josevolution said:

bootlegger10 said:

josevolution said:

bootlegger10 said:

josevolution said:

pjhawks said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

oftenreading said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I always wonder how someone that could do such a horrific thing could not have given off some clues about their mental instability.

Please don't equate violence and mental "instability"/mental illness. 

Come on. I'm not saying mental instability equals violence. I'm saying to commit violence in this manner, something is wrong with your way of thinking and I would think your behavior beforehand would likely indicate something, at least in hindsight.

here is the part i don't get. they said he checked on Thursday. Are you telling me no one cleaned his room and/or saw anything in that room since Thursday? it is that easy to hide high powered rifles and ammo?

Never mind how about the fact that he was able to just get all those items into casino ? he could of just left the do not disturbe sign on door they absolutly respect those ....

Could have easily brought that stuff in a golf bag.  Definitely big enough and no one would look twice at it.

So the answer is to do what to avoid this kind of scenario ?

For now I don't think hotels should do anything.  I don't want to live in a police state and that is what happened with the Patriot Act.   Now if these type of hotel shootings continue then I think the hotels would need to act.

We need stronger gun control legislation for sure.

Stronger legislation lol like that could ever happen remember sandy hook nothing nada zilch happened after that event , tell me what's kepping the next mass murdered from taking aim from another hotel why is it that we have to go thru security check points at every airport , it seems to me that if hotels made it imposible for you to just walk in with as many guns & ammo lives could be saved ...But the fear of a police state is worse than anything that could be done to save lives .....

Because we don't need to have safety checks at thousands of hotels because one person went crazy.   Planes have a little more history of this shit.  fucking quote function sucks 

josevolution

Yeah i guess we can all safely say this kind of event won't be duplicated no ....

mattsl1983

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

At a certain point, when the bodies are piling up by the dozens, I simply no longer have any fucks to give about somebody's hobby.
Seriously.

Gotta agree here. There are bigger concerns and there are other hobbies.

The problem is, if the guns were acquired illegally, what's your solution?  A bag of bullets won't do you any good if there is no gun to to shoot, just like a gun does no good if there is no one to shoot it.  Now you are just limiting someone else's rights for something that wouldn't have prevented this or any similar shootings from happening just because you think it would.  That's the problem with arguing for stricter gun laws, no suggestion that has been made prevents the events from happening.  I think more focus should be on us as a society that has a fascination with violence as opposed to the gun restrictions.  Gun restrictions are in place in places like Chicago.  I've never heard of gun violence in Chicago. 

I would never argue against greater gun restrictions just because I think people absolutely should have to jump through hoops to get them legally, and that includes having access to private medical information and juvenile criminal records, and also an alert that shows anytime a police officer looks up a legal gun owner's info. I also don't think using guns seems like something that should be hobby at all. They are weapons, not toys. Guns as a hobby seems ludicrous to me. I am also adamantly against sport hunting because I think it is SICK to get pleasure out of killing. However, I do totally agree with you about the real probably being the gun culture, as I've stated many times. Until this twisted fascination with and glorification of guns is gone in the mindset of citizens, America will not be free of their gun problem. But.... I think gun regulations could certainly contribute to causing this gun culture to slowly die out. If it becomes so hard to get guns legally that a big portion of normal society decides it's more trouble than it's worth, that would go a long way in the long term, since they would be less likely to pass this love of guns down to their kids, a stigma against guns would grow (and yes, that's a good thing IMO), and a large number of them would just find other hobbies. Nobody loves a hobby that is more a pain in the ass than anything else.

I am all for having to take a psych exam in order to obtain a fire arm.  I'm all for every so many years having to retake one. I'm against access to private medical records and being on some sort of police alert list.  The problem with society isn't love of guns (this is where the argument always gets lost on me), it's with violence.  I don't care if someone's hobby is to go shooting.  Good for them.  If they like trophy hunting and it's legal, good for those hunters.  I'm not going to take away someone else's hobbies or things they like to do because I personally don't like it or agree with it.  At that point, you are just taking away from people because you disagree with them with no factual basis that it improves society.  

PJ_Soul

I didn't mean like a RED FLAG!!! police list btw. I just meant that when a police officer happens to look you up (like when you're pulled over or something) that a note be there stating whether or not you're a registered gun owner. I think that could be very useful info, depending on the situation.

I would never say "good for those people who get a rush out of killing". Hunting, for me, is a huge no-no unless it's necessary.... I honestly really wonder about people who actually enjoy killing a beautiful animal, and then keep their sad, dead carcass as a way to show off how they murdered it. I think it's sick.

JimmyV

Unless you are making your own guns in a basement somewhere, all these guns were legal at one time. The gun company manufactured them, legally. They were shipped somewhere, legally. Sometime after that, whether it be via theft or gun running, those same guns that were once manufactured legally magically became illegal. That's a problem. There are too many guns and they are too easy to get.

mattsl1983

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't mean like a RED FLAG!!! police list btw. I just meant that when a police officer happens to look you up (like when you're pulled over or something) that a note be there stating whether or not you're a registered gun owner. I think that could be very useful info, depending on the situation.

I would never say "good for those people who get a rush out of killing". Hunting, for me, is a huge no-no unless it's necessary.... I honestly really wonder about people who actually enjoy killing a beautiful animal, and then keep their sad, dead carcass as a way to show off how they murdered it. I think it's sick.

I still don't agree with a national registration of gun owners.  Doesn't account for illegal owners which, and I'm just assuming here, would be a bigger threat to a police officer than a legal gun owner.  

I dont agree with trophy hunting, but if it's legal and some hunters enjoy it, that's good for them.  I don't get it, but I'm not going to judge someone as if I'm a better person for it.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV said:

Unless you are making your own guns in a basement somewhere, all these guns were legal at one time. The gun company manufactured them, legally. They were shipped somewhere, legally. Sometime after that, whether it be via theft or gun running, those same guns that were once manufactured legally magically became illegal. That's a problem. There are too many guns and they are too easy to get.

For sure. Illegal guns were either stolen or sold illegally. I don't know why legal gun owners try to pretend they as a group have nothing to do with the illegal gun trade, because they do.

mattsl1983

JimmyV said:

Unless you are making your own guns in a basement somewhere, all these guns were legal at one time. The gun company manufactured them, legally. They were shipped somewhere, legally. Sometime after that, whether it be via theft or gun running, those same guns that were once manufactured legally magically became illegal. That's a problem. There are too many guns and they are too easy to get.

The first step in combating this would be securing the borders.  It would be a lot easier to track and find the guns on the illegal market once the illegal market is contained to the US instead of the with the rest of the world.  Would you agree with that?

rgambs

mattsl1983 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't mean like a RED FLAG!!! police list btw. I just meant that when a police officer happens to look you up (like when you're pulled over or something) that a note be there stating whether or not you're a registered gun owner. I think that could be very useful info, depending on the situation.

I would never say "good for those people who get a rush out of killing". Hunting, for me, is a huge no-no unless it's necessary.... I honestly really wonder about people who actually enjoy killing a beautiful animal, and then keep their sad, dead carcass as a way to show off how they murdered it. I think it's sick.

I still don't agree with a national registration of gun owners.  Doesn't account for illegal owners which, and I'm just assuming here, would be a bigger threat to a police officer than a legal gun owner.  

I dont agree with trophy hunting, but if it's legal and some hunters enjoy it, that's good for them.  I don't get it, but I'm not going to judge someone as if I'm a better person for it.

It would account for the gun, if not the owner.
Registration is a literal no brainer.

Those who oppose it are extremist in their views and it's suspicious.  What is the motive behind keeping something like that secret?

PJ_Soul

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

Unless you are making your own guns in a basement somewhere, all these guns were legal at one time. The gun company manufactured them, legally. They were shipped somewhere, legally. Sometime after that, whether it be via theft or gun running, those same guns that were once manufactured legally magically became illegal. That's a problem. There are too many guns and they are too easy to get.

The first step in combating this would be securing the borders.  It would be a lot easier to track and find the guns on the illegal market once the illegal market is contained to the US instead of the with the rest of the world.  Would you agree with that?

I know you weren't asking me, but I would say that this would help much at all - gun thefts would just skyrocket, and so would the prices, which would likely lead more gun owners to sell on the black market more often when they hit hard times and need some fast cash. And yes, people would figure out how to beat gun safes, so they aren't a solution in this context either. You don't want the solution to actually make things more dangerous - I don't think following the same tactics as they did with the war on drugs would work too well.

JimmyV

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

Unless you are making your own guns in a basement somewhere, all these guns were legal at one time. The gun company manufactured them, legally. They were shipped somewhere, legally. Sometime after that, whether it be via theft or gun running, those same guns that were once manufactured legally magically became illegal. That's a problem. There are too many guns and they are too easy to get.

The first step in combating this would be securing the borders.  It would be a lot easier to track and find the guns on the illegal market once the illegal market is contained to the US instead of the with the rest of the world.  Would you agree with that?

I would agree that we should secure the border. I don't know if that would cut back on the number of mass shootings that we see in this country.

mattsl1983

rgambs said:

mattsl1983 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I didn't mean like a RED FLAG!!! police list btw. I just meant that when a police officer happens to look you up (like when you're pulled over or something) that a note be there stating whether or not you're a registered gun owner. I think that could be very useful info, depending on the situation.

I would never say "good for those people who get a rush out of killing". Hunting, for me, is a huge no-no unless it's necessary.... I honestly really wonder about people who actually enjoy killing a beautiful animal, and then keep their sad, dead carcass as a way to show off how they murdered it. I think it's sick.

I still don't agree with a national registration of gun owners.  Doesn't account for illegal owners which, and I'm just assuming here, would be a bigger threat to a police officer than a legal gun owner.  

I dont agree with trophy hunting, but if it's legal and some hunters enjoy it, that's good for them.  I don't get it, but I'm not going to judge someone as if I'm a better person for it.

It would account for the gun, if not the owner.
Registration is a literal no brainer.

Those who oppose it are extremist in their views and it's suspicious.  What is the motive behind keeping something like that secret?

I am in no way an extremist.  As I've already mentioned, I don't own a gun.  I just don't believe there should be a registry.  It goes against the whole purpose of the second amendment.  You can find that suspicious all you want to, I'm fine good with you thinking I'm suspicious.

PJ_Soul

I just don't understand your "good for them" statements, lol. It's legal to do something awful so good for them? I'm not sure why you find that necessary to say if you don't even approve of the gratuitous killing. I mean.... picking your nose and flicking it in public is legal too, but I don't say "good for them" because they've decided to do it.   And killing an innocent animal for pleasure is a hell of a lot worse than the flick and pick.

mattsl1983

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

Unless you are making your own guns in a basement somewhere, all these guns were legal at one time. The gun company manufactured them, legally. They were shipped somewhere, legally. Sometime after that, whether it be via theft or gun running, those same guns that were once manufactured legally magically became illegal. That's a problem. There are too many guns and they are too easy to get.

The first step in combating this would be securing the borders.  It would be a lot easier to track and find the guns on the illegal market once the illegal market is contained to the US instead of the with the rest of the world.  Would you agree with that?

I know you weren't asking me, but I would say that this would help much at all - gun thefts would just skyrocket, and so would the prices, which would likely lead more gun owners to sell on the black market more often when they hit hard times and need some fast cash. And yes, people would figure out how to beat gun safes, so they aren't a solution in this context either. You don't want the solution to actually make things more dangerous - I don't think following the same tactics as they did with the war on drugs would work too well.

i would complete disagree with you on that.  If you are going after the illegal market, the first thing you have to do is isolate the market and minimize it.  You can't keep emptying a bucket under a leaking pipe and wonder why the bucket keeps filling up.  The war on drugs is completely different.  You can grow and make your own drugs.  The war on drugs also failed due to not having secured borders.  Violence went up in territorial areas that were good for smuggling and allowed cartels to form in order to transport drugs and money across the borders and defend the territories they carved out for themselves.

tbergs

mattsl1983 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mattsl1983 said:

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

At a certain point, when the bodies are piling up by the dozens, I simply no longer have any fucks to give about somebody's hobby.
Seriously.

Gotta agree here. There are bigger concerns and there are other hobbies.

The problem is, if the guns were acquired illegally, what's your solution?  A bag of bullets won't do you any good if there is no gun to to shoot, just like a gun does no good if there is no one to shoot it.  Now you are just limiting someone else's rights for something that wouldn't have prevented this or any similar shootings from happening just because you think it would.  That's the problem with arguing for stricter gun laws, no suggestion that has been made prevents the events from happening.  I think more focus should be on us as a society that has a fascination with violence as opposed to the gun restrictions.  Gun restrictions are in place in places like Chicago.  I've never heard of gun violence in Chicago. 

I would never argue against greater gun restrictions just because I think people absolutely should have to jump through hoops to get them legally, and that includes having access to private medical information and juvenile criminal records, and also an alert that shows anytime a police officer looks up a legal gun owner's info. I also don't think using guns seems like something that should be hobby at all. They are weapons, not toys. Guns as a hobby seems ludicrous to me. I am also adamantly against sport hunting because I think it is SICK to get pleasure out of killing. However, I do totally agree with you about the real probably being the gun culture, as I've stated many times. Until this twisted fascination with and glorification of guns is gone in the mindset of citizens, America will not be free of their gun problem. But.... I think gun regulations could certainly contribute to causing this gun culture to slowly die out. If it becomes so hard to get guns legally that a big portion of normal society decides it's more trouble than it's worth, that would go a long way in the long term, since they would be less likely to pass this love of guns down to their kids, a stigma against guns would grow (and yes, that's a good thing IMO), and a large number of them would just find other hobbies. Nobody loves a hobby that is more a pain in the ass than anything else.

I am all for having to take a psych exam in order to obtain a fire arm.  I'm all for every so many years having to retake one. I'm against access to private medical records and being on some sort of police alert list.  The problem with society isn't love of guns (this is where the argument always gets lost on me), it's with violence.  I don't care if someone's hobby is to go shooting.  Good for them.  If they like trophy hunting and it's legal, good for those hunters.  I'm not going to take away someone else's hobbies or things they like to do because I personally don't like it or agree with it.  At that point, you are just taking away from people because you disagree with them with no factual basis that it improves society.  

I guess I'm an idiot because removing all guns seems like a no brainer to reducing violence and improving society. How could it not? This is no longer primitive times so why do we still think and respond primitively? How much of the food the average person eats in a given year is actually procured via hunting in some way? Seriously, I don't know, but it can't be more then 5%. Yet, we're not doing anything about guns because of hunters and hobby shooters?