America's Gun Violence

PJ_Soul

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

That might be bare arms rather than bear arms.

Okay

Bentleyspop

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

That might be bare arms rather than bear arms.

Why not arm the bears?

dudeman

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

Stickman12

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Stickman12

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.

mickeyrat

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

we assume well trained and proficient. not always the case.

similar to this , what do you call the person who finished last in their class at med school?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Stickman12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.

I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.

The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.

oftenreading

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.

Stickman12

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.

I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.

The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.

While part of me agrees with you a part of me still believes that the current laws need to be enforced before any new laws are put in place. Our current laws are just not being enforced enough to make any change. Also this is a "never satisfied" subject. New laws, restrictions, regulations, and standards could be put in place but you will never have complete compliance. Someone will choose to do use a firearm in a crime despite any of the above mentioned. Then what?? More laws and regulations?? Let's really push to enforce current laws with strict penalties, let's put some resources behind understanding and treating mental illnesses, let's be proactive to keeping guns out of criminals hands instead of reactive. The end goal is the same from both sides. Reduce gun violence and crime.

PJ_Soul

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

Yeah, that's my point: Canadians are different in their mindset about it. RCMP wielding assault weapons at a ceremony is offensive to Canadians, and alarming. We don't think of guns in the same way as Americans do. And while guns are indeed scary and dangerous, our lack of gun culture is not about guns looking scary. It's because we are actually not scared, and therefore don't feel that we need to be oppressed by guns. We don't want that kind of fear, and gun culture creates that kind of fear.

OffSheGoes35

Wow, there has really been some insightful posts since I last visited this thread yesterday! I have really enjoyed catching up. Less focus on debate and differences, more focus on discussion and experiences. More of a unified feel, even though our cultures and experiences may be altogether different.

dudeman

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

we assume well trained and proficient. not always the case.

similar to this , what do you call the person who finished last in their class at med school?

Does the RCMP have problems with their officers gunning down civilians at public functions? Has that ever happened?

dudeman

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.

I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.

The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.

The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.

The laws we already have aren't being enforced.

dudeman

oftenreading said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.

So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?

dudeman

Stickman12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.

I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.

The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.

While part of me agrees with you a part of me still believes that the current laws need to be enforced before any new laws are put in place. Our current laws are just not being enforced enough to make any change. Also this is a "never satisfied" subject. New laws, restrictions, regulations, and standards could be put in place but you will never have complete compliance. Someone will choose to do use a firearm in a crime despite any of the above mentioned. Then what?? More laws and regulations?? Let's really push to enforce current laws with strict penalties, let's put some resources behind understanding and treating mental illnesses, let's be proactive to keeping guns out of criminals hands instead of reactive. The end goal is the same from both sides. Reduce gun violence and crime.

This.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Stickman12 said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

They probably looked scary

Guns are scary. If you don't think so, you probably don't respect them enough.

I remember a long time ago walking back to our hotel in Puerto Vallarta: we walked by the Corona outlet... there was an armed guard with an ak47. He wasn't smiling and I had a sober thought: his decision making is all that stands between me walking by or me becoming Swiss cheese.

Served in the military where there were times I literally had to hold and sleep with my M16, which IS an assault weapon. Was trained and educated on how the rifle assembled, disassembled, functioned, trained to troubleshoot malfunctions. The rifle was a tool, just like my boots, shovel, and flashlight were. It served to protect myself, my fellow soldiers, and innocent people who could not protect themselves. Respect for firearms is something that is not lacking. Firearms are not scary if you educate yourself on them. What is scary, as your illustrated in your example, are the PEOPLE who posses them and are not educated, trained, responsible and respectful. Those PEOPLE are dangerous regaurdless of their choice of weapon, not the weapon itself.

I understand this argument and it does stand to logic; however, it falls down for me at the point where, as you said, PEOPLE access these very deadly tools and use them against other people.

The current legal format for purchasing and owning weapons fails.

The current legal format makes it illegal for felons, people with mental illness, illegal aliens, those convicted of domestic violence, drug addicts, people dishonorably discharged from the military and those who have renounced their citizenship to own guns.

The laws we already have aren't being enforced.

And the laws are being broken. Don't forget about this little portion of the equation.

Again... PEOPLE... incapable of playing nicely with others- creating a need to develop safer and more definitive gun legislation (dealing with handguns and assault rifles in my mind).

oftenreading

dudeman said:

oftenreading said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

No, not in a holster. All cops in Canada have guns. I said bearing arms. I.e. standing there holding big ass assault weapons in their hands. Many of them. At a Remembrance Day ceremony.

Even so. I fail to see the issue. They are trained professionals.

mickeyrat brings up a good point which I agree with, but even if all of these individuals holding the guns are trained professionals the concern stands. Many of us (I would hazard a guess it's most of us, but I don't know that there are any stats on this) don't want to have these weapons present at such events. Their presence completely changes the atmosphere, and for the vast, vast majority of times we don't need them. There is really no need to give in to this assumption that such weapons are necessary or desirable.

So, you are concerned about people charged with the safety and protection of your citizens having guns? Even though they are trained?

Asked and answered.

mickeyrat

dudeman said:

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

we assume well trained and proficient. not always the case.

similar to this , what do you call the person who finished last in their class at med school?

Does the RCMP have problems with their officers gunning down civilians at public functions? Has that ever happened?

I'd say the RCMP are far more disiplined to start with coupled with a diiferent national mindset.

the image portrayed or at least perceived by me is one that starts with how they can serve or be of service vs here with "respect my authority"

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

Really? The mere sight of a gun in the holster of a trained professional makes you uncomfortable?

I understand that a lot of people are anti-gun but that seems overly sensitive.

Maybe it's just the crazy, weirdo, gun nut American perspective in me that makes it seem odd.

we assume well trained and proficient. not always the case.

similar to this , what do you call the person who finished last in their class at med school?

Does the RCMP have problems with their officers gunning down civilians at public functions? Has that ever happened?

I'd say the RCMP are far more disiplined to start with coupled with a diiferent national mindset.

the image portrayed or at least perceived by me is one that starts with how they can serve or be of service vs here with "respect my authority"

When RCMP speak about other members... they say, "He served" ... or, " He was in the service."

What you say isn't far from the truth with regards to the development of mind set.