And now a HUGE group of formerly closeted gay teenage boys and young men are going to have a role model. They're going to be empowered to come out. And they will.
The avalanche has just started. Soon every school is going to see gay players on every one of their teams. Every pro sport will have their gay stars. It won't be long before there are top-rated gay baseball players, hockey players, soccer players and football players everywhere. And it won't be long before they start dating out gay movie and music stars... imagine a star pitcher dating Matt Bomber or Zachary Quinto, a gay quarterback dating Wentworth Miller or Eric Himan. I mean... it's going to happen.
The more famous people come out, the more regular people will be ready to do it.
This is not a career-ender, as you say... this is a GREAT beginning.
BTW, Godfather... Michael Sam's jersey is currently the top-selling jersey going. And that means a very big thing... gay men are going to start watching football. you're going to have to get used to sharing the field with us.
BTW, Godfather... Michael Sam's jersey is currently the top-selling jersey going. And that means a very big thing... gay men are going to start watching football. you're going to have to get used to sharing the field with us.
dude I'm not a sports fan..maybe a charger game here and there but I can't even tell you who is on the team anymore,and yes btw those pic's you posted turn my gut but that's why you posted them and if as you say gay players will be more prominit in sports I believe you will see the end of enough fan support in large enough numbers to do some damage to the teams and their media support (televised games) because if enough tickets arn't sold games are not aired,I don't think the world of sports fan's are ready to see another Michael Sam every time they sit down to watch a game, just my opinion.
dude I'm not a sports fan..maybe a charger game here and there but I can't even tell you who is on the team anymore,and yes btw those pic's you posted turn my gut but that's why you posted them and if as you say gay players will be more prominit in sports I believe you will see the end of enough fan support in large enough numbers to do some damage to the teams and their media support (televised games) because if enough tickets arn't sold games are not aired,I don't think the world of sports fan's are ready to see another Michael Sam every time they sit down to watch a game, just my opinion.
Godfather.
Unless someone's an asshole (for lack of a better term), I can't see someone previously hardcore into a team refusing to attend or watch them because of openly-gay players. Fans dug them when they were closeted; the only difference is now they, god forbid, are living life openly - as they should.
We have (had) members of the military who are gay. Does that mean not wanting to support active members and veterans?
No one says everyone has to accept or like everything. I just don't get being so heated to take action. It doesn't hurt anyone; live and let live.
dude I'm not a sports fan..maybe a charger game here and there but I can't even tell you who is on the team anymore,and yes btw those pic's you posted turn my gut but that's why you posted them and if as you say gay players will be more prominit in sports I believe you will see the end of enough fan support in large enough numbers to do some damage to the teams and their media support (televised games) because if enough tickets arn't sold games are not aired,I don't think the world of sports fan's are ready to see another Michael Sam every time they sit down to watch a game, just my opinion.
Godfather.
Unless someone's an asshole (for lack of a better term), I can't see someone previously hardcore into a team refusing to attend or watch them because of openly-gay players. Fans dug them when they were closeted; the only difference is now they, god forbid, are living life openly - as they should.
We have (had) members of the military who are gay. Does that mean not wanting to support active members and veterans?
No one says everyone has to accept or like everything. I just don't get being so heated to take action. It doesn't hurt anyone; live and let live.
my comment was aimed towards his statement of players coming out of the closet by the hords...which I doubt will ever happen but I still think sports fan's in general are not in any hury to see a sam infestation of their favorite sport, I'm not a sports fan so if I'm wrong then cool I am wrong but I doubt we'll find out any time soon.
As a devout follower of sport, I can tell you, Godfather, that an athlete's performance in the sporting arena is what matters to fans.
Even the most homophobic, one-toothed, shotgun toting red neck will soon forget their hateful ways if a gay athlete plays well for their favourite team.
Sam isn't a great football player (comparatively speaking to the other players in the NFL and the other players drafted)- he won't be the 'Michael Jordan' for the gay athlete cause. That day will come though... and when it does, that day will prove to be monumental for eradicating much of the lingering animosity held for gay people.
Sam is an interesting story though and the moment has been positive for society. I hope he does well under the media scrutiny. He's been placed in an unfair situation.
I really don't see the problem...If He wasn't Gay and Kissed His Female Partner then No Big Deal...But because He's Partner IS Gay then all of a Sudden it's this Big Huge Deal.
A lot of the Problem in this World is People in General that is always Think they Know what's Best for Other People...The Kiss didn't Hurt anyone whatsoever so There's no Problem here.
I don't know if we should bothering arguing this point with Godfather people. His mind is made up and stuck in the past. Pretty sure his attitude does NOT reflect that of the majority of Americans anymore - not even close - and those for whom it does, well, should we even give a fuck about what they think? I mean, of course a posotive voice still needs to be out there generally. But at this rate they will be on the wrong side of history sooner than they seem to think; they'll.end up being the shame of the future generations of their families, just like the black-hating racists of previous generations are now. The homophobes have truly started losing the battle at this point, thank goodness. :-bd
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't know if we should bothering arguing this point with Godfather people. His mind is made up and stuck in the past. Pretty sure his attitude does NOT reflect that of the majority of Americans anymore - not even close - and those for whom it does, well, should we even give a fuck about what they think? I mean, of course a posotive voice still needs to be out there generally. But at this rate they will be on the wrong side of history sooner than they seem to think; they'll.end up being the shame of the future generations of their families, just like the black-hating racists of previous generations are now. The homophobes have truly started losing the battle at this point, thank goodness. :-bd
wow !!! I didn't know we were arguing any points.,.....ahhhh because of my thoughts on this you feel the need to argue with me right ? even going so far as to bring in the black race card as a comparison, bombs away captian ! release the gay hounds ! ....and the black ones too !! )
You didn't think anyone was arguing any points? That makes no sense.
And yes, I compare bigotry towards gaya people to bigotry towards people's skin. Not sure why you find that hilarious. It's a fair comparison.
but why the race card every friggin time...the gay card the race card ,I havent read read an origanial argument/debate on this forum in a long time,most of it ends up with the race card and somebody comparing what ever it is to black treatment in past history...oh and everybody is a bigot, all the perfect people must post on the TRAIN right ?????? as far I am concerned this topic has reached its end....sayith the accused bigot. )
Actually, your thoughts on some issues discussed here are bigoted. You're free to think and believe what you want - as are we all - and fortunately, it seems your views are confined to that - ie, words - vs hateful action.
Surely you realize your stance on this would be countered (especially in the way some of them have been stated) - and honestly, whether anyone's views are "popular", it's par for the course - post, respond, respond to response, etc.
I get that you feel as you do (no denying at this point ). I don't agree, but encourage you to continue to speak your mind while at the same time knowing that you'll likely get countered and called on it.
PS...I'm not a fan of card-pulling either, but sometimes - and I think in this case - it fits.
You didn't think anyone was arguing any points? That makes no sense.
And yes, I compare bigotry towards gaya people to bigotry towards people's skin. Not sure why you find that hilarious. It's a fair comparison.
but why the race card every friggin time...the gay card the race card ,I havent read read an origanial argument/debate on this forum in a long time,most of it ends up with the race card and somebody comparing what ever it is to black treatment in past history...oh and everybody is a bigot, all the perfect people must post on the TRAIN right ?????? as far I am concerned this topic has reached its end....sayith the accused bigot. )
Godfather.
its true godfather.. i myself am intolerant of ignorant people.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm waiting for the alien invasion. When that happens, there will be an enlightening of the bigoted in the human race and people who didn't realize it before will realize that we're all human beings on this planet, all the same. We'll all become one as we fight off the alien invaders. You watch, it'll happen.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You didn't think anyone was arguing any points? That makes no sense.
And yes, I compare bigotry towards gaya people to bigotry towards people's skin. Not sure why you find that hilarious. It's a fair comparison.
but why the race card every friggin time...the gay card the race card ,I havent read read an origanial argument/debate on this forum in a long time,most of it ends up with the race card and somebody comparing what ever it is to black treatment in past history...oh and everybody is a bigot, all the perfect people must post on the TRAIN right ?????? as far I am concerned this topic has reached its end....sayith the accused bigot. )
Godfather.
I don't know about anyone else, but I "pull the race card" because to me it seems like the most obvious, relevant, and relatable comparison. What would be an "original" comparison for you GF? I wasn't aware that using unique comparisons when trying to clarify the nature of your bigotry was something you were looking for. I honestly can't think of a better one, so I am going to keep aiming for accuracy rather than originality.
I don't understand your "everybody is a bigot" comment... I actually said the opposite, so am not sure what you're talking about.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Here's how i see it... We ALL know someone that holds similar opinions on Gays and Lesbians as those that have been expressed here. Some of those people we know are a close to us as our Dads... or an Uncle... or Sibling. It doesn't mean they are 'bad' people, right? They just have this certain perspective towards those people they do not understand. We do not have to agree with or accept this perspective because we know it is just that... a perspective. I also think that the person that harbors these types of beliefs have to accept them as part of the make up of their character. If their opinions are based upon the base defininitions of bigotry, they need to accept the fact that their views are bigoted, thus they are the ones who define themselves as bigots. I know it is hard to take... but, it the truth and the truth is often times... hard and cold and painful. Maybe if the bigoted person learns to understand the people they forsake... they will see that they are just people... trying to navigate this life like everyone else. You cannot force anyone to change. They will only change if they want to. If bigots are proud of their bigotry... there is nothing anyone can say to change them. But, as long as the person holds on to those negative character traits, that person needs to understand that he revokes his claim as being a descent person because descent folks are not bigots.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm waiting for the alien invasion. When that happens, there will be an enlightening of the bigoted in the human race and people who didn't realize it before will realize that we're all human beings on this planet, all the same. We'll all become one as we fight off the alien invaders. You watch, it'll happen.
Hope and love to all.
Yes, herd behavior. Kinda like what happened after 9-11. We all fought against the evil doer. We were united!!!! Well except Bad Brains you were still excluded from the herd).
I'm waiting for the alien invasion. When that happens, there will be an enlightening of the bigoted in the human race and people who didn't realize it before will realize that we're all human beings on this planet, all the same. We'll all become one as we fight off the alien invaders. You watch, it'll happen.
Hope and love to all.
Yes, herd behavior. Kinda like what happened after 9-11. We all fought against the evil doer. We were united!!!! Well except Bad Brains you were still excluded from the herd).
Damn Callen, wtf buddy? I'm telling u bro, it's this islamophobia
I really enjoyed the last 8 or ten posts, it's really kind of cool reading everybodys take on people and their ideas and thoughts on how people react of feel about different subjects or topics, I see where you are all coming from and to a point I would agree with you but I have my beliefs and opinions and many of you have yours but I don't use words like bigot or racist to discribe you or anybody else,I guess I just see things differently,maybe I don't agree with or accept some things in life that others do but I don't expect them to change for me and that's one of the differences between us , you all seem to expect others to change or accept what you feel is right "live and let live" could be the phrase for life but ...here it comes....we all have that human desire to do things differently and to fight (verbaly or otherwise) for our thoughts and beliefs so at the end of the day are you guy's right or am I right ? as long as people don't deliberattly hurt each other we should be good right ?
Homophobes have been buying music from openly gay artists for decades, they have compartmentalised it, you should see the number of homophobes on Queen sites, they still love the band though.
Homophobic football fans will soon get used to it, they'll have to because now one player has come out, a lot more will too.
I really enjoyed the last 8 or ten posts, it's really kind of cool reading everybodys take on people and their ideas and thoughts on how people react of feel about different subjects or topics, I see where you are all coming from and to a point I would agree with you but I have my beliefs and opinions and many of you have yours but I don't use words like bigot or racist to discribe you or anybody else,I guess I just see things differently,maybe I don't agree with or accept some things in life that others do but I don't expect them to change for me and that's one of the differences between us , you all seem to expect others to change or accept what you feel is right "live and let live" could be the phrase for life but ...here it comes....we all have that human desire to do things differently and to fight (verbaly or otherwise) for our thoughts and beliefs so at the end of the day are you guy's right or am I right ? as long as people don't deliberattly hurt each other we should be good right ?
Godfather.
Godfather,
Everybody is entitled to their beliefs and opinions, but this entitlement does not mean all beliefs and opinions are appropriate or legitimate.
The 'live and let live' you speak of is something you haven't fully subscribed to yet because the persecution gay people have suffered throughout time has spawned from the very attitude you possess. You may not have actually 'hurt' anyone physically, but indirectly you have through your contribution to a collective mindset that seeks to discriminate against gays and decrees them undesirable.
In all honesty, as a younger man, I grew up in an era and region that had difficulty understanding homosexuality. My ill-formed perspective was formed and supported by people who simply didn't know enough to have a proper opinion. After time and understanding was afforded to me, my perspective changed. I came to know homosexuality as an aspect of life and not an affliction.
Holding on to ill-formed thoughts and beliefs is counter-productive to the growth and development of one's character. Some good people have spent some good time trying to help you understand that homosexuality is completely within the spectrum of normalcy. Do not cling to those old ideals you hold. Expand your horizons my friend. Or at least try and see where your mind takes you.
Comments
The avalanche has just started. Soon every school is going to see gay players on every one of their teams. Every pro sport will have their gay stars. It won't be long before there are top-rated gay baseball players, hockey players, soccer players and football players everywhere. And it won't be long before they start dating out gay movie and music stars... imagine a star pitcher dating Matt Bomber or Zachary Quinto, a gay quarterback dating Wentworth Miller or Eric Himan. I mean... it's going to happen.
The more famous people come out, the more regular people will be ready to do it.
This is not a career-ender, as you say... this is a GREAT beginning.
Godfather.
Godfather.
Godfather.
We have (had) members of the military who are gay. Does that mean not wanting to support active members and veterans?
No one says everyone has to accept or like everything. I just don't get being so heated to take action. It doesn't hurt anyone; live and let live.
Godfather.
Even the most homophobic, one-toothed, shotgun toting red neck will soon forget their hateful ways if a gay athlete plays well for their favourite team.
Sam isn't a great football player (comparatively speaking to the other players in the NFL and the other players drafted)- he won't be the 'Michael Jordan' for the gay athlete cause. That day will come though... and when it does, that day will prove to be monumental for eradicating much of the lingering animosity held for gay people.
Sam is an interesting story though and the moment has been positive for society. I hope he does well under the media scrutiny. He's been placed in an unfair situation.
A lot of the Problem in this World is People in General that is always Think they Know what's Best for Other People...The Kiss didn't Hurt anyone whatsoever so There's no Problem here.
I'm talking beyond a kiss, hug, backrub - showing love, affection. I'll never understand how this could not be a good thing.
I haven't even seen THIS KISS but if it was deep, lingering, whatever, so what? I doubt anyone couldn't stomach breakfast afterward.
This gets tossed in the "get over it" pile.
That said, going beyond doesn't offend at all but strikes me as...personal. I think most times, intimacy degenerates when flaunted, shown to all.
Hope that makes sense; the brain's still waking up here.
As to "Sam infestation"? GF, c'mon. We're talking real live loving human beings here, not termites.
Godfather.
And yes, I compare bigotry towards gaya people to bigotry towards people's skin. Not sure why you find that hilarious. It's a fair comparison.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
as far I am concerned this topic has reached its end....sayith the accused bigot.
Godfather.
Surely you realize your stance on this would be countered (especially in the way some of them have been stated) - and honestly, whether anyone's views are "popular", it's par for the course - post, respond, respond to response, etc.
I get that you feel as you do (no denying at this point
PS...I'm not a fan of card-pulling either, but sometimes - and I think in this case - it fits.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Hope and love to all.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I don't understand your "everybody is a bigot" comment... I actually said the opposite, so am not sure what you're talking about.
We ALL know someone that holds similar opinions on Gays and Lesbians as those that have been expressed here. Some of those people we know are a close to us as our Dads... or an Uncle... or Sibling. It doesn't mean they are 'bad' people, right? They just have this certain perspective towards those people they do not understand. We do not have to agree with or accept this perspective because we know it is just that... a perspective.
I also think that the person that harbors these types of beliefs have to accept them as part of the make up of their character. If their opinions are based upon the base defininitions of bigotry, they need to accept the fact that their views are bigoted, thus they are the ones who define themselves as bigots. I know it is hard to take... but, it the truth and the truth is often times... hard and cold and painful.
Maybe if the bigoted person learns to understand the people they forsake... they will see that they are just people... trying to navigate this life like everyone else.
You cannot force anyone to change. They will only change if they want to. If bigots are proud of their bigotry... there is nothing anyone can say to change them. But, as long as the person holds on to those negative character traits, that person needs to understand that he revokes his claim as being a descent person because descent folks are not bigots.
Hail, Hail!!!
=D>
Godfather.
Homophobic football fans will soon get used to it, they'll have to because now one player has come out, a lot more will too.
Everybody is entitled to their beliefs and opinions, but this entitlement does not mean all beliefs and opinions are appropriate or legitimate.
The 'live and let live' you speak of is something you haven't fully subscribed to yet because the persecution gay people have suffered throughout time has spawned from the very attitude you possess. You may not have actually 'hurt' anyone physically, but indirectly you have through your contribution to a collective mindset that seeks to discriminate against gays and decrees them undesirable.
In all honesty, as a younger man, I grew up in an era and region that had difficulty understanding homosexuality. My ill-formed perspective was formed and supported by people who simply didn't know enough to have a proper opinion. After time and understanding was afforded to me, my perspective changed. I came to know homosexuality as an aspect of life and not an affliction.
Holding on to ill-formed thoughts and beliefs is counter-productive to the growth and development of one's character. Some good people have spent some good time trying to help you understand that homosexuality is completely within the spectrum of normalcy. Do not cling to those old ideals you hold. Expand your horizons my friend. Or at least try and see where your mind takes you.