Diamonds are bullshit
backseatLover12
Posts: 2,312
They really are. Nothing but a marketing scam created long ago. Spread this to all those young lovers out there.
American males enter adulthood through a peculiar rite of passage -- they spend most of their savings on a shiny piece of rock. They could invest the money in assets that will compound over time and someday provide a nest egg. Instead, they trade that money for a diamond ring, which isn't much of an asset at all. As soon as you leave the jeweler with a diamond, it loses over 50 percent of its value.
Americans exchange diamond rings as part of the engagement process, because in 1938 De Beers decided that they would like us to. Prior to a stunningly successful marketing campaign 1938, Americans occasionally exchanged engagement rings, but wasn't a pervasive occurrence. Not only is the demand for diamonds a marketing invention, but diamonds aren't actually that rare. Only by carefully restricting the supply has De Beers kept the price of a diamond high.
Countless American dudes will attest that the societal obligation to furnish a diamond engagement ring is both stressful and expensive. But here's the thing -- this obligation only exists because the company that stands to profit from it willed it into existence.
So here is a modest proposal: Let's agree that diamonds are bullshit and reject their role in the marriage process. Let's admit that as a society we got tricked for about a century into coveting sparkling pieces of carbon, but it's time to end the nonsense.
The Concept of Intrinsic Value
In finance, there is concept called intrinsic value. An asset's value is essentially driven by the (discounted) value of the future cash that asset will generate. For example, when Hertz buys a car, its value is the profit they get from renting it out and selling the car at the end of its life (the "terminal value"). For Hertz, a car is an investment. When you buy a car, unless you make money from it somehow, its value corresponds to its resale value. Since a car is a depreciating asset, the amount of value that the car loses over its lifetime is a very real expense you pay.
A diamond is a depreciating asset masquerading as an investment. There is a common misconception that jewelry and precious metals are assets that can store value, appreciate and hedge against inflation. That's not wholly untrue.
Gold and silver are commodities that can be purchased on financial markets. They can appreciate and hold value in times of inflation. You can even hoard gold under your bed and buy gold coins and bullion (albeit at a ~10 percent premium to market rates). If you want to hoard gold jewelry however, there is typically a retail markup so that's probably not a wise investment.
But with that caveat in mind, the market for gold is fairly liquid and gold is fungible -- you can trade one large piece of gold for 10 smalls ones like you can a 10 dollar bill for 10 one dollar bills. These characteristics make it a feasible potential investment.
Diamonds, however, are not an investment. The market for them is neither liquid nor are they fungible.
The first test of a liquid market is whether you can resell a diamond. In a famous piece published by The Atlantic in 1982, Edward Epstein explains why you can't sell used diamonds for anything but a pittance:
Retail jewelers, especially the prestigious Fifth Avenue stores, prefer not to buy back diamonds from customers, because the offer they would make would most likely be considered ridiculously low. The "keystone," or markup, on a diamond and its setting may range from 100 to 200 percent, depending on the policy of the store; if it bought diamonds back from customers, it would have to buy them back at wholesale prices.
...
Most jewelers would prefer not to make a customer an offer that might be deemed insulting and also might undercut the widely-held notion that diamonds go up in value. Moreover, since retailers generally receive their diamonds from wholesalers on consignment, and need not pay for them until they are sold, they would not readily risk their own cash to buy diamonds from customers.
Read more at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rohin-dhar/diamonds-are-bullshit_b_3708562.html
American males enter adulthood through a peculiar rite of passage -- they spend most of their savings on a shiny piece of rock. They could invest the money in assets that will compound over time and someday provide a nest egg. Instead, they trade that money for a diamond ring, which isn't much of an asset at all. As soon as you leave the jeweler with a diamond, it loses over 50 percent of its value.
Americans exchange diamond rings as part of the engagement process, because in 1938 De Beers decided that they would like us to. Prior to a stunningly successful marketing campaign 1938, Americans occasionally exchanged engagement rings, but wasn't a pervasive occurrence. Not only is the demand for diamonds a marketing invention, but diamonds aren't actually that rare. Only by carefully restricting the supply has De Beers kept the price of a diamond high.
Countless American dudes will attest that the societal obligation to furnish a diamond engagement ring is both stressful and expensive. But here's the thing -- this obligation only exists because the company that stands to profit from it willed it into existence.
So here is a modest proposal: Let's agree that diamonds are bullshit and reject their role in the marriage process. Let's admit that as a society we got tricked for about a century into coveting sparkling pieces of carbon, but it's time to end the nonsense.
The Concept of Intrinsic Value
In finance, there is concept called intrinsic value. An asset's value is essentially driven by the (discounted) value of the future cash that asset will generate. For example, when Hertz buys a car, its value is the profit they get from renting it out and selling the car at the end of its life (the "terminal value"). For Hertz, a car is an investment. When you buy a car, unless you make money from it somehow, its value corresponds to its resale value. Since a car is a depreciating asset, the amount of value that the car loses over its lifetime is a very real expense you pay.
A diamond is a depreciating asset masquerading as an investment. There is a common misconception that jewelry and precious metals are assets that can store value, appreciate and hedge against inflation. That's not wholly untrue.
Gold and silver are commodities that can be purchased on financial markets. They can appreciate and hold value in times of inflation. You can even hoard gold under your bed and buy gold coins and bullion (albeit at a ~10 percent premium to market rates). If you want to hoard gold jewelry however, there is typically a retail markup so that's probably not a wise investment.
But with that caveat in mind, the market for gold is fairly liquid and gold is fungible -- you can trade one large piece of gold for 10 smalls ones like you can a 10 dollar bill for 10 one dollar bills. These characteristics make it a feasible potential investment.
Diamonds, however, are not an investment. The market for them is neither liquid nor are they fungible.
The first test of a liquid market is whether you can resell a diamond. In a famous piece published by The Atlantic in 1982, Edward Epstein explains why you can't sell used diamonds for anything but a pittance:
Retail jewelers, especially the prestigious Fifth Avenue stores, prefer not to buy back diamonds from customers, because the offer they would make would most likely be considered ridiculously low. The "keystone," or markup, on a diamond and its setting may range from 100 to 200 percent, depending on the policy of the store; if it bought diamonds back from customers, it would have to buy them back at wholesale prices.
...
Most jewelers would prefer not to make a customer an offer that might be deemed insulting and also might undercut the widely-held notion that diamonds go up in value. Moreover, since retailers generally receive their diamonds from wholesalers on consignment, and need not pay for them until they are sold, they would not readily risk their own cash to buy diamonds from customers.
Read more at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rohin-dhar/diamonds-are-bullshit_b_3708562.html
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Comments
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Who buys an engagement ring as an investment?
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it goes well beyond diamonds ... ever wonder why the cuss gold is so valuable? ... i mean when the world's "economy" is in "crisis" ... gold soars ... like what the cuss are you gonna do with gold? ... you know what's really valuable!? ... fresh water and salt ... that's what ... not gold and diamonds ... people are stupid ...0
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Exactly. Whats next? A thread about how we buy dying cut flowers on valentines day?Cliffy6745 said:Who buys an engagement ring as an investment?
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Never been a diamond-luster. No offense to those who have bought or wear them, but the whole pomp and circumstance of it, the flaunting, I'm not sure of the term...I guess the overall SEE MY FINGER of it. I just don't get it.
It's like someone saying "Look at this thing! It represents my value."
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But wait, there's another way to think about diamonds. Geologically, diamonds are about as miraculous as nature can get. Formed from boring old carbon at very high temps and pressures, around 100 miles beneath the surface of the earth, over billions of years. Just the fact that we are able to get to them at the earth's surface is unbelievable. I'm not a big rock and bling gal at all, but I'm a geologist, and when I look at my diamonds I am absolutely blown away by them... I'd much prefer to keep that amazed perspective than believe they're just a marketing scam with no intrinsic value.0
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an octopus can change colours to match its surroundings - and we eat them!jmuscatello said:But wait, there's another way to think about diamonds. Geologically, diamonds are about as miraculous as nature can get. Formed from boring old carbon at very high temps and pressures, around 100 miles beneath the surface of the earth, over billions of years. Just the fact that we are able to get to them at the earth's surface is unbelievable. I'm not a big rock and bling gal at all, but I'm a geologist, and when I look at my diamonds I am absolutely blown away by them... I'd much prefer to keep that amazed perspective than believe they're just a marketing scam with no intrinsic value.
seriously tho - i can appreciate that but there is a lot of rocks that can fall similarily into that vain ... i think the point of this thread is the value society has place on them ... much of which is artificial ... it's fine to find personal value in something but it's another when that value is forced upon us by social constructs and marketing agencies ...
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Diamonds are beautiful and us girls love them especially when they catch the light they look just magnificent.
Dont forget diamonds are a girls best friend.0 -
What costs more?
The diamond for the engagement ring?
Or the....
Lawyer for the divorce?0 -
Exactly. Or like the diamond (or the size of it) represents the relationship itself.hedonist said:Never been a diamond-luster. No offense to those who have bought or wear them, but the whole pomp and circumstance of it, the flaunting, I'm not sure of the term...I guess the overall SEE MY FINGER of it. I just don't get it.
It's like someone saying "Look at this thing! It represents my value."0 -
Which is exactly my point for posting this thread.polaris_x said:
an octopus can change colours to match its surroundings - and we eat them!jmuscatello said:But wait, there's another way to think about diamonds. Geologically, diamonds are about as miraculous as nature can get. Formed from boring old carbon at very high temps and pressures, around 100 miles beneath the surface of the earth, over billions of years. Just the fact that we are able to get to them at the earth's surface is unbelievable. I'm not a big rock and bling gal at all, but I'm a geologist, and when I look at my diamonds I am absolutely blown away by them... I'd much prefer to keep that amazed perspective than believe they're just a marketing scam with no intrinsic value.
seriously tho - i can appreciate that but there is a lot of rocks that can fall similarily into that vain ... i think the point of this thread is the value society has place on them ... much of which is artificial ... it's fine to find personal value in something but it's another when that value is forced upon us by social constructs and marketing agencies ...0 -
Another scheme brought to you by Marilyn Monroe and the jewelry industry.JWPearl said:Diamonds are beautiful and us girls love them especially when they catch the light they look just magnificent.
Dont forget diamonds are a girls best friend.0 -
Im not one to flaunt a stone but even to have it hanging by my window to catch the light is pretty, but i think anyone is stupid buying a huge engagement ring with a huge rock on it with the rate of divorce these days, you really need to make sure that your both getting on like fire and ice and cruisy in between.backseatLover12 said:
Exactly. Or like the diamond (or the size of it) represents the relationship itself.hedonist said:Never been a diamond-luster. No offense to those who have bought or wear them, but the whole pomp and circumstance of it, the flaunting, I'm not sure of the term...I guess the overall SEE MY FINGER of it. I just don't get it.
It's like someone saying "Look at this thing! It represents my value."0 -
yuck! i've never given a diamond to a gal, i have thought about it though
i am thrilled/grateful i never did
here is what i think... diamonds are bullshit
mining companies are bullshit
wholesalers are bullshit
jewelers are bullshit
it is a scam, folks
sure diamonds, gold, silver, crystal, rubies, emeralds & other fine stones
are formed over millions of years deep beneath the earth's surface
all those shifting plates inside the earth bring up the diamonds & whatnot
if i ever get married
i'd love having a wife that told me as follows, "fuck no i don't want a diamond ring or earings, let's take that $$$ & go to peru & visit the shamans at the ayahuasca ceremony retreat
give your lover a turquoise stone on a leather cord
give a chunk of amazonite with a hole through it to fashion a leather cord necklace
just my opinion & don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings
this scam has been going on far to long & has blood stains everywhere
engagements & engagement rings are completely ridiculous
while im at it... another bullshit ordeal is weddings
for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
Chad, please don't sugar coat it. Tell us how you really feel.
0 -
ok i willfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
gals wearing a lot of diamonds, gold & other jewelery... wow
often kind of a sickening feeling over-comes my gut where i retch & blowout a kidney
a few times though nothing happens as they are decent
dudes wearing all that crap... holy toledo!
why didn't their parents beat them silly?
guys with gold chains, diamonds & bullshit might should be used as bird-feeder holdersfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
love is not in, on or around a diamond
diamonds are not a girls best friend
whoever came up with that little statement
should be sent back in time
to visit 'ivan the terrible' for three weeks at ivan's goodtimes family resortfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
You know what I hang in the window to catch the light? Stained glass. Much prettier, better colors and designs and far, far less expensive. I also love my clear quartz, rose quartz, labradorite and moonstone.JWPearl said:
Im not one to flaunt a stone but even to have it hanging by my window to catch the light is pretty, but i think anyone is stupid buying a huge engagement ring with a huge rock on it with the rate of divorce these days, you really need to make sure that your both getting on like fire and ice and cruisy in between.backseatLover12 said:
Exactly. Or like the diamond (or the size of it) represents the relationship itself.hedonist said:Never been a diamond-luster. No offense to those who have bought or wear them, but the whole pomp and circumstance of it, the flaunting, I'm not sure of the term...I guess the overall SEE MY FINGER of it. I just don't get it.
It's like someone saying "Look at this thing! It represents my value."0 -
Guys with bling are very questionable indeed.
Women with bling tend to not be very earthy.Post edited by backseatLover12 on0 -
those precious or mystcal stones like quartz crystals & rose quartz & whatever else you listed are fantastic
as you know they have certain properties
i've felt my quartz crystals go absolutely nuts before as have others
cool stuff
in my R front pants pocket are three quartz crystals
for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0
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