You think you're friends..

whispering hands

What it says..



You think you're friends.. Then nothing.. God I hate humans..

pdalowsky

:(

Losiento

right? I have a saying. I used to like people until they wrecked it for me.

brianlux

^^^ another good one, Losiento!

I have to admit I'm rather misanthropic toward the human race as a whole but I'm loyal to my friends and on an individual basis I believe in being courteous and where due, respectful. I used to let people destroy me- that is, I destroyed myself by giving them or allowing them to be my personal power and strength. I had to learn to believe in myself enough not to let that happen and to be able to criticize myself when I screw up in such a way that I learn to get better rather than worse. Among other things, I totally thank the writing of Henry Rollins for thinking this way. Hack or pack, baby. Yet at the same time, doing those things also opened the door for healthier friendships. The idea is to believe in yourself, be kind to others but do not give yourself away to those who only take.

Losiento

I agree. It is hard when your a selfless soul very hard lesson to learn. I think what is worse is how hateful and bitter these people get when you say okay enough is enough. Although I have learned there is a difference between "humans" and "people." Not all people are humans and not all humans are people.

whispering hands

I should know better by now! But I've had a lot of support from my real friends, and I realize now, that I just need to be more cautious about whom I allow into my world. And Losiento, I live by that credo! Lol that and the more people I meet, the more I love my pets!!

Idris

Losiento said:

Although I have learned there is a difference between "humans" and "people." Not all people are humans and not all humans are people.

Power.

gimmesometruth27

tonight i have done some drinking and some serious soulsearching.

sure you THINK you are friends with certain people.

but in this digital, written world, people are not your friends. or if they are, they are your friends when it is convenient for them.

i have learned that the hard way on here the last few years. on facebook people are content to add as many people as "friends" as possible, yet when they are needed by said friends,. they are nowhere to be found.

lately the aet has moved to facebook. i never posted here because i did not feel like i fit in here. then i moved over there and it is the same popularity contest bullshit. i have left almost every pj group over there. there is one that i am somewhat active in, but people that i do not care much for have taken over that group, and i am a ghost now to people i did care about, so now i have to leave.

i have learned that all of your so called friends will fuck you over at some point. i have unfriended a lot of people recently. it is nothing personal, it is that you either add to my life or detract from if. if you detract from it, or add nothing to it, you gotta go. nothing personal but that is the way it has to be.

brianlux

^^^

That is some serious fuckin' thinking, gimme. But true and well said. Some years ago in an interview Bob Dylan was asked who his real friends are. He said ( to the best of my memory), "My real friends." A long pause. "Oh man, if I had to name my real friends, I don't know." Bob's words spoke to me and in a way, for me.

We are often friendly with people in the internet but as you say, that is not the same as a true friend. On the other hand, when you correspond with someone this way over a long enough time I think you can get at least a decent idea about that person. But you'll never know them well until you actually spend time with them. And even then, people change. I've had one good close friend with whom I parted on bad terms (this was in the mid-80's, he hit my my second wife) and that still bothers me greatly to this day. I've had other friends flake out on me and I've probably flaked out on a few people myself- never with intent to be harmful, but it's happened. I'm much more cautious about getting close to people in person. Losing friends, break ups, divorce, it's all pretty much the same to me and all very difficult to deal with. Basically I just try to be myself and be honest with people and by doing that friendships that don't gel or last tend to drift apart rather than tear apart and the one's that last are built on trust.

Longueuil

wasa1971

"Friend" is often overused. As the years pass by, I find myself referring to more people in my life as an acquaintance after having allowed myself to be hurt. A lack of mutual trust and support are often the biggest components to jeopardize a friendship, followed by jealousy. A true friend will celebrate your successes with you, and be honest even if it's not what you want to hear. Hold onto, love and appreciate unconditionally those that have earned the honour of a friendship.

hedonist

Yeah, I agree with wasa. And it makes me think, what IS a friend? On our own part as well as theirs?

Much as I've been hurt by so-called friends, I know I've fallen short myself. Thankfully learned some things in the process though; sometimes not so pretty revelations, but part of my own growth.

There are many people whom I love, but those I count as real friends? A handful - not even that, really. Then there are some I haven't seen in maybe 20 years due to circumstance, location, what have you. But I know that if/when we see each other again, the fluidity and sincere closeness would still be there.

(I also want to address the online aspect but need to gather my still-fuzzy thoughts. I love Sunday mornings)

Losiento

whispering hands said:

I should know better by now! But I've had a lot of support from my real friends, and I realize now, that I just need to be more cautious about whom I allow into my world. And Losiento, I live by that credo! Lol that and the more people I meet, the more I love my pets!!

So many people tell me that!

Losiento

Longueuil said:

I have a commodore 64 too! I do not have many "friends". Socially, yes, people like me , but real life long friends... no. As soon as I let them in to give them a chance unfortunately find them treading on me quickly. Or our friendship was a fleeting helping of each other, which is fine, for in that moment of time we needed each other in some way that mutually benefitted each other. I think I should be thankful for that alone. Appreciate them and everyone keeps moving along. But for now, just finding the right life partner for me, right now, is enough.

whispering hands

I also had to leave the PJ FB groups, save for two. But those two are positive, encouraging.. And the one actually had people in it that I have met IRL, and I get the feeling that all if us there appreciate that we can simply safely be ourselves. Brian, you are infinitely wise my friend and I always enjoy conversing with you!! I pick up new angles from which to view life in every conversation! So thank you. Gimme, I too appreciate your cut dry truths. I know you are a genuine person. And it seems those are the ones the shitheafs go after. I left all those FB groups because they were so out of hand! It was just like the Synergy pit days when there was no moderation.. It was a shit fire free for all! It was horrible.. Except back then I was right in the middle, being an asshole right along with them.. So when I say I should know by now.. It's cause I've been fucking with and making friends online since 93' when you had to plug a modem into your computer, and dial an ISL number versus a phone number to post on a slow ass BBS system, then wait weeks for an answer!! Lol so I truly should know the truth about people that are snugly hidden behind the security of a computer screen and how messed up they can be.. But hope springs eternal I guess?? Anyhow.. I'm glad the shitheads are over on FB.. It's kinda a but nicer over here now!

eeriepadave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEHF5lM8pDk

gimmesometruth27

there are so many definitions of the word "friend". most times i don't even know where i stand with certain people. are we friends? are we friends with benefits? are we close enough friends that i can ask you a favor or vice versa? are we "drinkin buddies'? i have people in my life that fall into those categories. i find that you have to be on the same page with the definition of the nature of that relationship. right now, i am "friends" with a girl who says she is "friends" with me. to me friends talk. they acknowledge each other. they comfort each other in bad times. they have a genuine feeling of caring about each other. they want each other to be genuinely happy. they see each other and make plans that won't fall through. this person pretty much ignores me. some friend....

whispering hands

Yes Gimme' I have to agree there are so many different definitions. And you're right that each should be on the same page as to what nature the friendship, or involvement with one another is. As for a friend that won't even acknowledge you, and ignores you. I don't know what that is about.. But I also know that there two sides to every story. I think often we overlook the other person's side in light of our own fears, or worries concerning that involvement. Perhaps you are in the same boat as I, and you in the end are better off without this friend?? By the way.. It is refreshing to be able to converse on these forums without reproach!!

Aafke

My definition of true friendship. Is indeed meeting face to face. Not because we don't share a lot online. Most of us do. But there are so less consequences online. On one side for me it makes it easy to be true to my own feelings, because i can share them without consequences, for me it gives me a lot of freedom. On the other hand other people do have the same freedom, of posting without consequences. We only represent what we want the world to see, which gives a distorted view on who we really are, I suppose. Therefor I don't think that online friendships do have much meaning.

In real life I agree with Gimme and Whispering hands, there are many definitions of friendship, and if friends don't have the same expectations of that friendship, most of the time friendships don't work out.

Maybe online it works the same, but online you miss a key ingredient of communication. 80 % of our communication is based on non-verbal communication, like tone off voice, facial expression, body language etc, etc. I think that in face to face friendships the expectations of those friendships mostly are non-verbally agreements. We are maybe not used to speak them out, so therefor a lot of mistakes can be made in online friendships. I simply believe that we don't say everything in words, and online thats the only tool we have.

whispering hands

I totally agree with the non verbal communication!! And I also agree with your point on there being a freedom to posting behind the safety of the Jack of consequence. There are those that are true to your statement; you only share with the world what you want them to see. But having been online as long as I have. I gave learned a very important lesson, two actually.. One is no matter in verbal words or in text, you can only be you.. Lies have a way of working themselves to the light..two, text is a very flat medium for expressing your emotions.. And often goes misunderstood.. So the end result?? What you get of me here, online, is what you get IRL. That was a very hard lesson learned. But it has stuck with me through the years.. But it ts

whispering hands

The result if learning that sometimes hidden consequences outweigh the consequences that you flat out know are there.

Aafke

What I meant with the showing online what you want the world to see, is not telling bolt lies, but it's more subtle, you can create an personality who in great lines is you, but in the finesses, is different. I agree with you that in real life or online you can only be you, and thew true comes out every time. But online it takes maybe a bit longer, because you have just 20% of the communication without the non verbal part. And without that 80 % it is far easier to get misunderstandings between member who communicate instead of face to face. Sure online you get the same shit as in real life, but online it is easier to keep looking longer trough the pink glasses. It is easier to to upholf that you share things with someone than in real life, because you miss so much communication tools.

gimmesometruth27

whispering hands said:

I totally agree with the non verbal communication!! And I also agree with your point on there being a freedom to posting behind the safety of the Jack of consequence. There are those that are true to your statement; you only share with the world what you want them to see. But having been online as long as I have. I gave learned a very important lesson, two actually.. One is no matter in verbal words or in text, you can only be you.. Lies have a way of working themselves to the light..two, text is a very flat medium for expressing your emotions.. And often goes misunderstood.. So the end result?? What you get of me here, online, is what you get IRL. That was a very hard lesson learned. But it has stuck with me through the years.. But it ts

i am very much the same way you are. online people can be whoever they want to be. it is like the fertile green fields of the sociopath. it is candyland for people like that. i mean, people are fucked up. people take advantage of each other online all the time. i have been a victim of it a few times, and each time it hurts worse than the prior time. it is like "really, i am falling for this again????" people only show what they want you to see. i am a very open and honest poster. i do not want to be misunderstood, so i try to communicate as clearly, openly, and honestly as i can on here. if people ask for my opinion on something, i give it to them. if people ask for advice, i try to give them the best advice i can based on what i know about that particular situation. that gets me taken advantage of because i take people at face value and i take them at their word. i have no reason not to, until they burn me. i like to try to see the good in people, and to me that is all based in honesty. i will be honest with anybody because i believe that they deserve that. if nothing else, people deserve honesty and they deserve truth. i will never hide behind my avatar, my screen name, or some contrived, fake, online persona. what people see with me is what they get. the way i see it, if you don't lie, you never have to remember anything. you never have to try to keep a story straight, and you never have to be wary of what you have told to certain people.

yes i get burned a lot. but it is ok. i am a much stronger person than people think. on this website specifically, people mistake kindness for weakness all the time. i see it all the time. i have experienced it a few times. people will take advantage of those that they feel are weak. and that is a terrible thing.

i think the one thing i value most in people is their ability to be honest. some people are unable to do that, so they have to go.

gimmesometruth27

whispering hands said:

Yes Gimme' I have to agree there are so many different definitions. And you're right that each should be on the same page as to what nature the friendship, or involvement with one another is. As for a friend that won't even acknowledge you, and ignores you. I don't know what that is about.. But I also know that there two sides to every story. I think often we overlook the other person's side in light of our own fears, or worries concerning that involvement. Perhaps you are in the same boat as I, and you in the end are better off without this friend?? By the way.. It is refreshing to be able to converse on these forums without reproach!!

yeah you are right. i am right from my side, and this person is right from theirs. i just happen to care a great deal about this person. maybe both of us are going through the motions hanging on to a friendship that isn't a real one.

Aafke

I also appreciate honesty in people a lot, and i try to be honest always, but I realize not all members have this way of thinking, regretfully. And yes they can burn you. I also think verbal or written lies are much easier to make than to sell the same lie non verbal. Also out of the non verbal context you get a lot of information about a person, which you miss online. So mistakes are far more likely to occur. So when you have the intention of being honest en direct mistakes online are far easier to make than FTF. An other point that makes it more difficult is the culture differences and cultural prejudice. Online you talk with people from all over the world, without knowing where they are from, or what cultural background they have. What in one culture can be a innocent regard can in an other be a big insult. Most of the time we aren't even aware that so many of our daily life dealings are cultural influenced.

I am a great supporter of true and honesty, but what i see as true and honesty is not necessary the same as your definition off those two words

Aafke

But hey, maybe I try to hard blaming it all on mistakes so I don't have to think bad about people, because I like the thought that no one will intentionally harm others, I like to see the good in people....

whispering hands

I have to agree with you both. I see your point on the finesse of words versus the non verbal tell, Aafke, but I am very much so like Gimme' in that I will never pretend to be what I'm not.. I will never try to convince you I like you ( people in general). I usually know very quickly wether or not I like someone. And yes I get burned, taken advantage if, and hurt a lot. But I look at it like this. If a person fucks me over or hurts me, then I simply know that that is just one more fucker on the 'hell no' I won't deal with you anymore ( not necessarily in trades etc, just period). I lose a lot of people I have tried to build friendships with, because I don't lie, and I don't steal.. I won't let anyone do that on front of me either. I just think the human moral has dipped so low that wether on here, or out in the real word, people have begun to think lying and backstabbing g are normal ways of life. I may be being a bit cynical there, but this is what I feel to be true.

Aafke

Maybe you are right with your take on people and I'm just in denial. But for me I couldn't intentionally hurt an other living being. I always try to tell the true and surely don't steal. I did hurt people by mistake, and was very sorry for it. I can't imagine why anyone would intentionally hurt someone else, that is to far from my point of view on life. Yes, I quit friendships that aren't healthy or abusive to me, and have lost quite a few over the years. but in my point of view most of them ended by stupid mistakes, instead of bad intentions.

BinFrog

The key in life is to seek out that small core of friends who stick with you through everything. I have a lot of decent friends and acquaintances, and i've lost several along the way. But I have formed a really good core of deep friendships...the kind of people you want to have around when life is good and when shit gets bad. You don't need a lot of "these" kinds of friends. A few will do. Heck...even 1 would probably suffice.

whispering hands

Aafke, I don't believe you are in denial. We are all just in different places in our lives. Every single one of us could experience the exact same event and walk away with a uniquely different view point on how things went down, and thus how it effected us. This is one of the fascinating beauties of human nature. It's why I can only hate them all for so long before I am compelled to be in awe if people again.. I have been in this earth perhaps too long,but I think I've met everyone before.. They just had different names, color of skin, or involvements in
My life. It's odd but it truly feels that way some times. That's why I get along so well with animals.. They don't know HOW to lie.. And Bin Frog. How right you are about that core group. And I do have those people. Unfortunately for me, I'm chronically Nomadic.. So they're spread out over widely diverse spaces across the country.. ( USA). However I think only ONE that I'm learning to trust, lives here in Colorado. And I think I shelter myself a lot if times out of fear.. Pain is not easily digested.. And I have had too much to go running headlong into it. So I tend to be a bit of a recluse. Which is my own fault. But I think sometimes it is needed too.

Aafke

Whispering hands, I understand the sheltering part out of fear. In my daily life I do exactly the same. I hide behind a mask of strong and independent woman. Pain is surely not easily digested. Everyone has his own baggage of life experiences, what make them react differently on the same experience. Luckily that surly makes life interesting for living. But I also believe we have some common grounds, I strongly believe that suffering and pain is part of being human. Every one gets his or her share. But by everyone experiencing pain and suffering, we all know how it feels, and therefor don't intentionally do it to someone we call a friend, because we all know how it feels. You don't wish it to someone you care for or pretend to care for.

I think there are many types of people, which sometimes can give you the feeling that you all met them before, but I strongly believe that we are all unique. It is easier for our brain to cataloque people into types, but by doing so you take a risk, You don't truely look at the person standing in front of you, but you measure them to experiences you had before, with people who may act quite similar to them, but these are experiences which these people had nothing to do with but are judged on for showing similarities with people you have these experiences with. In my point of view by doing so you don't have an open view on the person who is standing in front of you. They could have very individual characteristics if you give them the chance of getting to know them. I on the other hand think it is quite human to become categorical, I Think it is our way of making the world understandable.

I also agree with BinFrog You do need a core of friends who stand by you in good and bad times, and just one could be enough. I'm very glad with mine, and I'm very glad I could always be there for her to.