I think what we need to get away from is the belief that all Christians believe what these fundamentalist Christians believe... that the word of God was written in the Bible and it is the absolute truth. Many Christians i know find some truths in the Bible, but, understand its origin... from tales of ancient societies, repeated through generations and finally, written into text form. People find inspiration, comfort, faith and joy in these words. It is the fundamentalists that are screwing shit up. In other words, you can have both religion and science in your life... or you can choose either one. But, that is your life. Don't feel compelled to chose for others.
Well said. I agree.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It is silly to call this a debate. It's just as useful to have a debate on the invisible purple dragon in my garage and its impact on evolution. In case you were wondering the dragon does really exist and he's friendly.
Let me add a point of the other side... I think Christians need to understand that not everyone is Christian. You don't need to save us from anything. Just let us find our own way. Also, you are not being persecuted in America. There is no War on Christmas and there is no War on Christianity. You can pray all you want in school... just don't expect the rest of us to have to join along with you. Take the advice of your own Saviour and "... whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret". You are free to set up Nativity Scenes in your front yards and at your churches but, not on taxpayer property. Sure, you pay taxes... but so do Jews and Muslims and Hindi and Atheists and Festivusians and Satanists... so you should expect a minora and a Festivus Pole and Santa Claus and Krampus and Satan to find a place along side the baby Jesus outside the county courthouse and not get upset when it happens. And i would suggest that maybe if you try living by the Ten Commandments, so you won't have to have monuments placed everywhere to remind you what they are. Finally, You are free to teach and learn about Creationism... but, on your church's or private school's dime, not on the taxpayers. You may believe Creationism is a science, but it is not recognized as a science and therefore, should not be taught in public schools as a science. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it real. ... peace...
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Let me add a point of the other side... I think Christians need to understand that not everyone is Christian. You don't need to save us from anything. Just let us find our own way. Also, you are not being persecuted in America. There is no War on Christmas and there is no War on Christianity. You can pray all you want in school... just don't expect the rest of us to have to join along with you. Take the advice of your own Saviour and "... whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret". You are free to set up Nativity Scenes in your front yards and at your churches but, not on taxpayer property. Sure, you pay taxes... but so do Jews and Muslims and Hindi and Atheists and Festivusians and Satanists... so you should expect a minora and a Festivus Pole and Santa Claus and Krampus and Satan to find a place along side the baby Jesus outside the county courthouse and not get upset when it happens. And i would suggest that maybe if you try living by the Ten Commandments, so you won't have to have monuments placed everywhere to remind you what they are. Finally, You are free to teach and learn about Creationism... but, on your church's or private school's dime, not on the taxpayers. You may believe Creationism is a science, but it is not recognized as a science and therefore, should not be taught in public schools as a science. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it real. ... peace...
What is it about man-made religion that makes people think that belief equals fact? Creationism wouldn't be in text books in (in Texas, right?) if so many didn't equate it to reality. Yet, it's a man made thing. The story of creationism was created by man. Yet, it's no more than a story and belief in something that can never be proven. Unlike science.
What is it about man-made religion that makes people think that belief equals fact? Creationism wouldn't be in text books in (in Texas, right?) if so many didn't equate it to reality. Yet, it's a man made thing. The story of creationism was created by man. Yet, it's no more than a story and belief in something that can never be proven. Unlike science.
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
... There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind? The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately. That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think what we need to get away from is the belief that all Christians believe what these fundamentalist Christians believe... that the word of God was written in the Bible and it is the absolute truth. Many Christians i know find some truths in the Bible, but, understand its origin... from tales of ancient societies, repeated through generations and finally, written into text form. People find inspiration, comfort, faith and joy in these words. It is the fundamentalists that are screwing shit up. In other words, you can have both religion and science in your life... or you can choose either one. But, that is your life. Don't feel compelled to chose for others.
^^^ This is so true and I know several people who have both a science background and faith based philosophy. Personally, I like the mystery of the unknown but I have no quarrel with those who have differing faiths as long as they accept my beliefs (or lack thereof) as well.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
... There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind? The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately. That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Would it really be that easy to change the mind of someone who has spent his/her life believing in a concept like evolution? I'd like to think so but I think some within the community of science/evolution have made science or evolution their 'religion' and often have blinders on just the same as some within the religious community seem to some of us At the end of the day, we are all humans, we are all fallible but often can't admit that we were wrong.
I kind of like not knowing for sure, it's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
... There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind? The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately. That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Feel open discussions such as this debate makes it harder and harder for fundamentalists to influence others to join their team. Sure many hadn't been exposed to clear easy to understand evidence as what Nye presented. So do we have the answers? No but keeping the Ark fable going just became that much harder.
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
... There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind? The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately. That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Would it really be that easy to change the mind of someone who has spent his/her life believing in a concept like evolution? I'd like to think so but I think some within the community of science/evolution have made science or evolution their 'religion' and often have blinders on just the same as some within the religious community seem to some of us At the end of the day, we are all humans, we are all fallible but often can't admit that we were wrong.
I kind of like not knowing for sure, it's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.
Kind of like the mother of killer refusing to believe her son did it. Think many know the truth but just continue with the charade. This debate just makes it harder. Course we all tell ourselves little fibs to make us feel better about one selves.
at the end of the day does it really matter ? as Cosmo said life on this planet will probably end long before the sun dies and takes our planet with it and we will pass with our own beliefs and faith, some are believers in God and the birth of Christ and some are not and the only thing we know for certin is that when we pass we will find out straight away..so till then our pride and wisdom will tell the tale.
at the end of the day does it really matter ? as Cosmo said life on this planet will probably end long before the sun dies and takes our planet with it and we will pass with our own beliefs and faith, some are believers in God and the birth of Christ and some are not and the only thing we know for certin is that when we pass we will find out straight away..so till then our pride and wisdom will tell the tale.
Godfather.
Wouldn't matter if we had true separation of church and state.
Let me add a point of the other side... I think Christians need to understand that not everyone is Christian. You don't need to save us from anything. Just let us find our own way. Also, you are not being persecuted in America. There is no War on Christmas and there is no War on Christianity. You can pray all you want in school... just don't expect the rest of us to have to join along with you. Take the advice of your own Saviour and "... whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret". You are free to set up Nativity Scenes in your front yards and at your churches but, not on taxpayer property. Sure, you pay taxes... but so do Jews and Muslims and Hindi and Atheists and Festivusians and Satanists... so you should expect a minora and a Festivus Pole and Santa Claus and Krampus and Satan to find a place along side the baby Jesus outside the county courthouse and not get upset when it happens. And i would suggest that maybe if you try living by the Ten Commandments, so you won't have to have monuments placed everywhere to remind you what they are. Finally, You are free to teach and learn about Creationism... but, on your church's or private school's dime, not on the taxpayers. You may believe Creationism is a science, but it is not recognized as a science and therefore, should not be taught in public schools as a science. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it real. ... peace...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Let me add a point of the other side... I think Christians need to understand that not everyone is Christian. You don't need to save us from anything. Just let us find our own way. Also, you are not being persecuted in America. There is no War on Christmas and there is no War on Christianity. You can pray all you want in school... just don't expect the rest of us to have to join along with you. Take the advice of your own Saviour and "... whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret". You are free to set up Nativity Scenes in your front yards and at your churches but, not on taxpayer property. Sure, you pay taxes... but so do Jews and Muslims and Hindi and Atheists and Festivusians and Satanists... so you should expect a minora and a Festivus Pole and Santa Claus and Krampus and Satan to find a place along side the baby Jesus outside the county courthouse and not get upset when it happens. And i would suggest that maybe if you try living by the Ten Commandments, so you won't have to have monuments placed everywhere to remind you what they are. Finally, You are free to teach and learn about Creationism... but, on your church's or private school's dime, not on the taxpayers. You may believe Creationism is a science, but it is not recognized as a science and therefore, should not be taught in public schools as a science. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it real. ... peace...
I guess one could say that I am or that have Christian beliefs but I think of it as my own realtionship with God/Jesus but that being said I don't understand why people would think that Christianity is being shoved down their throats ? is someone really bothering you with their Christian beliefs that much ? I personally rearly ever see this,maybe once in a blue moon a Christian will knock on the door but they never seem to be pushy about it in fact they usally just drop off a Church schuldel and say have a nice day so where is this coming from ? ius the T.V worship shows ? change the channel if it bothers you also I have never met a Christian that tryed to force anyyhing on me but I will admit the mormans are pretty pushy and don't give up very ez unless you tell them to get lost right away but Christains that I have encountered have never forced anything on me.
i don't have a problem with churches until they start telling people how to vote. once they start endorsing candidates, they forfeit their tax exempt status.
also, televangelists who are millionaires are not living very christlike. i wish their "flock" would grasp that.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i don't have a problem with churches until they start telling people how to vote. once they start endorsing candidates, they forfeit their tax exempt status.
also, televangelists who are millionaires are not living very christlike. i wish their "flock" would grasp that.
Totally agree.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I guess one could say that I am or that have Christian beliefs but I think of it as my own realtionship with God/Jesus but that being said I don't understand why people would think that Christianity is being shoved down their throats ? is someone really bothering you with their Christian beliefs that much ? I personally rearly ever see this,maybe once in a blue moon a Christian will knock on the door but they never seem to be pushy about it in fact they usally just drop off a Church schuldel and say have a nice day so where is this coming from ? ius the T.V worship shows ? change the channel if it bothers you also I have never met a Christian that tryed to force anyyhing on me but I will admit the mormans are pretty pushy and don't give up very ez unless you tell them to get lost right away but Christains that I have encountered have never forced anything on me.
Godfather.
... The issue arises when it comes to legislation and/or public policy, not indivudual's beliefs, sir. For example, when Christian backed groups try to teach 'Creationism, (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') in public schools. Since public schools are funded by the public, i.e. Taxes, it is clearly favoring the Christian religion over all other religions, including the religion that does not believe in religion. That same principle applies to publicly owned property, such as Court Houses, City Halls, Police Stations, Fire houses, etc... If you feel that the Crosses or Ten Commandments or Nativity Scenes should be displayed on public grounds, you would also have to agree that Minoras, Festivus Poles and Satanic Pentagrams (for symbols of Satanic Religions... NOT atheists or Agnostics) should be allowed to be displayed on those grounds, too. It also applies to teacher lead prayers in public schools. No one says it is illegal to pray in school... which I am sure goes on before algebra finals... the First Amendment gives usall the right of religious freedom, including freedom FROM religion. .... i don't think anyone arguing against Christianity want Christianity banned.. we just do not want Christianity or be the National religion of the United States. We believe you should be able to believe in whatever form of religion you choose, including no religion at all. All we need to do is look at those naitions where religion is intertwined with government. Look at Afghanistan and tell me if you believe that to be a good model. .... That's all.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Would it really be that easy to change the mind of someone who has spent his/her life believing in a concept like evolution? I'd like to think so but I think some within the community of science/evolution have made science or evolution their 'religion' and often have blinders on just the same as some within the religious community seem to some of us At the end of the day, we are all humans, we are all fallible but often can't admit that we were wrong.
I kind of like not knowing for sure, it's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.
... I would change my mind the instant proof of God is presented to me. When God comes down to me and explains the Cosmological origins of the Universe and verifies/validates the God concept... I'll surely believe. ... Until then, i'm going to believe that positive character traits, such as love, empathy and honesty are not signs of God being in that person... and give the person the credit for his/her character. We do not have to possess religion in order to be good people... we get that from the humanity within our own being.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Also... we might want to look at the creation and evolution of the religion. The creation and origins of the Holy Texts. Those types of things can be proven because there are records in the human record that tell us these things. Look at Creationism of the religion and the Evolution into its present form... from ancient tales that explain the natural world to Neolithic societies to Hebrew written texts to Christianity's birth and its transformation into the Church of Rome to its split by King Henry VIII so he could divorce and retain the throne to the church that was brought to the Americas. It does not take away from God, because you don't need religion to find God. You can still find hope, comfort, joy and inspiration in those texts, even when you discover it was written by men, 'inspired by their beliefs in God', and not by God, Himself. That explains why God possesses petty human character traits and passes judgement on us. You can find God in His cathedrals... the mountains and beaches and open fields... not only in the pews and words of men regurgitating approved doctrine based upon institutional translations and interpretations.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Let me add a point of the other side... I think Christians need to understand that not everyone is Christian. You don't need to save us from anything. Just let us find our own way. Also, you are not being persecuted in America. There is no War on Christmas and there is no War on Christianity. You can pray all you want in school... just don't expect the rest of us to have to join along with you. Take the advice of your own Saviour and "... whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret". You are free to set up Nativity Scenes in your front yards and at your churches but, not on taxpayer property. Sure, you pay taxes... but so do Jews and Muslims and Hindi and Atheists and Festivusians and Satanists... so you should expect a minora and a Festivus Pole and Santa Claus and Krampus and Satan to find a place along side the baby Jesus outside the county courthouse and not get upset when it happens. And i would suggest that maybe if you try living by the Ten Commandments, so you won't have to have monuments placed everywhere to remind you what they are. Finally, You are free to teach and learn about Creationism... but, on your church's or private school's dime, not on the taxpayers. You may believe Creationism is a science, but it is not recognized as a science and therefore, should not be taught in public schools as a science. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it real. ... peace...
I guess one could say that I am or that have Christian beliefs but I think of it as my own realtionship with God/Jesus but that being said I don't understand why people would think that Christianity is being shoved down their throats ? is someone really bothering you with their Christian beliefs that much ? I personally rearly ever see this,maybe once in a blue moon a Christian will knock on the door but they never seem to be pushy about it in fact they usally just drop off a Church schuldel and say have a nice day so where is this coming from ? ius the T.V worship shows ? change the channel if it bothers you also I have never met a Christian that tryed to force anyyhing on me but I will admit the mormans are pretty pushy and don't give up very ez unless you tell them to get lost right away but Christains that I have encountered have never forced anything on me.
Godfather.
There are plenty of good Christians who actually practice what Christ taught. These I have no issue with. They are usually very quiet about their faith.
The ones shoving religion down other people's throats are the ones who support teaching "intelligent design, i.e. Creationism" in schools, shout that homosexuals are going to tell, yell and scream at women going to Planned Parenthood that they are evil/going to hell, support prayer in public schools, want to deny women access to legal abortion, etc. Many of these folks are hypocrites, including an number of male pro fetus rights proponents whose mistresses were pressured by them into having abortions. And you can't have missed all the folks who claim that this is a "christian" country
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
... There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind? The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately. That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Would it really be that easy to change the mind of someone who has spent his/her life believing in a concept like evolution? I'd like to think so but I think some within the community of science/evolution have made science or evolution their 'religion' and often have blinders on just the same as some within the religious community seem to some of us At the end of the day, we are all humans, we are all fallible but often can't admit that we were wrong.
I kind of like not knowing for sure, it's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.
I wasn't raised to believe in evolution or any other science. I learned about it in school, and all the supporting evidence. Science is not a religion, which is based on faith with no supporting evidence
It is silly to call this a debate. It's just as useful to have a debate on the invisible purple dragon in my garage and its impact on evolution. In case you were wondering the dragon does really exist and he's friendly.
I guess one could say that I am or that have Christian beliefs but I think of it as my own realtionship with God/Jesus but that being said I don't understand why people would think that Christianity is being shoved down their throats ? is someone really bothering you with their Christian beliefs that much ? I personally rearly ever see this,maybe once in a blue moon a Christian will knock on the door but they never seem to be pushy about it in fact they usally just drop off a Church schuldel and say have a nice day so where is this coming from ? ius the T.V worship shows ? change the channel if it bothers you also I have never met a Christian that tryed to force anyyhing on me but I will admit the mormans are pretty pushy and don't give up very ez unless you tell them to get lost right away but Christains that I have encountered have never forced anything on me.
Godfather.
... The issue arises when it comes to legislation and/or public policy, not indivudual's beliefs, sir. For example, when Christian backed groups try to teach 'Creationism, (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') in public schools. Since public schools are funded by the public, i.e. Taxes, it is clearly favoring the Christian religion over all other religions, including the religion that does not believe in religion. That same principle applies to publicly owned property, such as Court Houses, City Halls, Police Stations, Fire houses, etc... If you feel that the Crosses or Ten Commandments or Nativity Scenes should be displayed on public grounds, you would also have to agree that Minoras, Festivus Poles and Satanic Pentagrams (for symbols of Satanic Religions... NOT atheists or Agnostics) should be allowed to be displayed on those grounds, too. It also applies to teacher lead prayers in public schools. No one says it is illegal to pray in school... which I am sure goes on before algebra finals... the First Amendment gives usall the right of religious freedom, including freedom FROM religion. .... i don't think anyone arguing against Christianity want Christianity banned.. we just do not want Christianity or be the National religion of the United States. We believe you should be able to believe in whatever form of religion you choose, including no religion at all. All we need to do is look at those naitions where religion is intertwined with government. Look at Afghanistan and tell me if you believe that to be a good model. .... That's all.
from what I understand most schools don't have prayer or "in God we trust" in the class or the school marque,I know my son's didn't but they did offer a gay living class for student's that felt out of place amung their non gay school mates and that pist me off,it's o.k to smoke your buddy's pole but no prayer in class, sorry for the rant.
and the second half of your post and all those things you say we should be able to believe in we have here in America and as far as Afghanistan goes isn't that a mostly muslim country and most or all attacks or wars fought or started by "radical"muslims the only Christian conflict I have heard of in the middle east is that Christain Pastor who is being held by a muslin court for being a Christain and not a muslim.
It is silly to call this a debate. It's just as useful to have a debate on the invisible purple dragon in my garage and its impact on evolution. In case you were wondering the dragon does really exist and he's friendly.
Exactly!
I feel the same way. Debating this topic is like arguing with a monkey. Or an idiot.
It is silly to call this a debate. It's just as useful to have a debate on the invisible purple dragon in my garage and its impact on evolution. In case you were wondering the dragon does really exist and he's friendly.
Exactly!
I feel the same way. Debating this topic is like arguing with a monkey. Or an idiot.
Be interesting to see if this debate changes public perception. Ham put forth good effort but think he failed in what he attempted to accomplish. Nye was cool and collected. Thought it was good Nye said he didn't know where matter came from. We don't truly know. We do though know earth is more than 6000 years old. Know 1 made interesting post earlier. "Wonder what we will think in 2000 years". You never know. Well unless we wake up in hell or heaven in few years. Hey we're are those 72 virgins!!! I Kid babe, your all I want or can handle. :x
... There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind? The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately. That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Would it really be that easy to change the mind of someone who has spent his/her life believing in a concept like evolution? I'd like to think so but I think some within the community of science/evolution have made science or evolution their 'religion' and often have blinders on just the same as some within the religious community seem to some of us At the end of the day, we are all humans, we are all fallible but often can't admit that we were wrong.
I kind of like not knowing for sure, it's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.
I wasn't raised to believe in evolution or any other science. I learned about it in school, and all the supporting evidence. Science is not a religion, which is based on faith with no supporting evidence
Clearly, science is not religion. However, there are some that espouse the beliefs of science without the critical thinking skills that are required to determine scientific truth by examining all evidence proffered. I say that those people are exactly like some people of religion - they accept what they are taught without thinking or analyzing at all.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I guess one could say that I am or that have Christian beliefs but I think of it as my own realtionship with God/Jesus but that being said I don't understand why people would think that Christianity is being shoved down their throats ? is someone really bothering you with their Christian beliefs that much ? I personally rearly ever see this,maybe once in a blue moon a Christian will knock on the door but they never seem to be pushy about it in fact they usally just drop off a Church schuldel and say have a nice day so where is this coming from ? ius the T.V worship shows ? change the channel if it bothers you also I have never met a Christian that tryed to force anyyhing on me but I will admit the mormans are pretty pushy and don't give up very ez unless you tell them to get lost right away but Christains that I have encountered have never forced anything on me.
Godfather.
... The issue arises when it comes to legislation and/or public policy, not indivudual's beliefs, sir. For example, when Christian backed groups try to teach 'Creationism, (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') in public schools. Since public schools are funded by the public, i.e. Taxes, it is clearly favoring the Christian religion over all other religions, including the religion that does not believe in religion. That same principle applies to publicly owned property, such as Court Houses, City Halls, Police Stations, Fire houses, etc... If you feel that the Crosses or Ten Commandments or Nativity Scenes should be displayed on public grounds, you would also have to agree that Minoras, Festivus Poles and Satanic Pentagrams (for symbols of Satanic Religions... NOT atheists or Agnostics) should be allowed to be displayed on those grounds, too. It also applies to teacher lead prayers in public schools. No one says it is illegal to pray in school... which I am sure goes on before algebra finals... the First Amendment gives usall the right of religious freedom, including freedom FROM religion. .... i don't think anyone arguing against Christianity want Christianity banned.. we just do not want Christianity or be the National religion of the United States. We believe you should be able to believe in whatever form of religion you choose, including no religion at all. All we need to do is look at those naitions where religion is intertwined with government. Look at Afghanistan and tell me if you believe that to be a good model. .... That's all.
from what I understand most schools don't have prayer or "in God we trust" in the class or the school marque,I know my son's didn't but they did offer a gay living class for student's that felt out of place amung their non gay school mates and that pist me off,it's o.k to smoke your buddy's pole but no prayer in class, sorry for the rant.
and the second half of your post and all those things you say we should be able to believe in we have here in America and as far as Afghanistan goes isn't that a mostly muslim country and most or all attacks or wars fought or started by "radical"muslims the only Christian conflict I have heard of in the middle east is that Christain Pastor who is being held by a muslin court for being a Christain and not a muslim.
Godfather.
Most schools have numerous clubs that address a wide variety of beliefs held by the students in any given school. My school has both FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) and GSA (Gay/Straight Alliance). We also start each morning with a moment of silence - that can be interpreted however one chooses. It can be a time of prayer or reflection or just 2 seconds that they have to be quiet! I have so many different students from varying faiths - whose faith am I supposed to uphold and which faith do I throw by the wayside? In a public school, we are required to uphold no religion as that would be unconstitutional.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Comments
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think Christians need to understand that not everyone is Christian. You don't need to save us from anything. Just let us find our own way.
Also, you are not being persecuted in America. There is no War on Christmas and there is no War on Christianity. You can pray all you want in school... just don't expect the rest of us to have to join along with you. Take the advice of your own Saviour and "... whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret". You are free to set up Nativity Scenes in your front yards and at your churches but, not on taxpayer property. Sure, you pay taxes... but so do Jews and Muslims and Hindi and Atheists and Festivusians and Satanists... so you should expect a minora and a Festivus Pole and Santa Claus and Krampus and Satan to find a place along side the baby Jesus outside the county courthouse and not get upset when it happens. And i would suggest that maybe if you try living by the Ten Commandments, so you won't have to have monuments placed everywhere to remind you what they are.
Finally, You are free to teach and learn about Creationism... but, on your church's or private school's dime, not on the taxpayers. You may believe Creationism is a science, but it is not recognized as a science and therefore, should not be taught in public schools as a science. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it real.
...
peace...
Hail, Hail!!!
There is a post earlier in thie thread that sums it all up. The question. What would it take to change your mind?
The Fundamentalist said there was nothing that would ever convince him and Bill Nye said provide the evidence and he would change his mind immediately.
That is the debate in a nutshell. While Science seeks to answer questions... which leads to more questions and more answers... religious fundamentalism is frozen in time and unwilling to see any other point of view.
Hail, Hail!!!
I kind of like not knowing for sure, it's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I guess one could say that I am or that have Christian beliefs but I think of it as my own realtionship with God/Jesus but that being said I don't understand why people would think that Christianity is being shoved down their throats ? is someone really bothering you with their Christian beliefs that much ? I personally rearly ever see this,maybe once in a blue moon a Christian will knock on the door but they never seem to be pushy about it in fact they usally just drop off a Church schuldel and say have a nice day so where is this coming from ? ius the T.V worship shows ? change the channel if it bothers you also I have never met a Christian that tryed to force anyyhing on me but I will admit the mormans are pretty pushy and don't give up very ez unless you tell them to get lost right away but Christains that I have encountered have never forced anything on me.
Godfather.
also, televangelists who are millionaires are not living very christlike. i wish their "flock" would grasp that.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
The issue arises when it comes to legislation and/or public policy, not indivudual's beliefs, sir. For example, when Christian backed groups try to teach 'Creationism, (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') in public schools. Since public schools are funded by the public, i.e. Taxes, it is clearly favoring the Christian religion over all other religions, including the religion that does not believe in religion.
That same principle applies to publicly owned property, such as Court Houses, City Halls, Police Stations, Fire houses, etc... If you feel that the Crosses or Ten Commandments or Nativity Scenes should be displayed on public grounds, you would also have to agree that Minoras, Festivus Poles and Satanic Pentagrams (for symbols of Satanic Religions... NOT atheists or Agnostics) should be allowed to be displayed on those grounds, too.
It also applies to teacher lead prayers in public schools. No one says it is illegal to pray in school... which I am sure goes on before algebra finals... the First Amendment gives usall the right of religious freedom, including freedom FROM religion.
....
i don't think anyone arguing against Christianity want Christianity banned.. we just do not want Christianity or be the National religion of the United States. We believe you should be able to believe in whatever form of religion you choose, including no religion at all. All we need to do is look at those naitions where religion is intertwined with government. Look at Afghanistan and tell me if you believe that to be a good model.
....
That's all.
Hail, Hail!!!
I would change my mind the instant proof of God is presented to me.
When God comes down to me and explains the Cosmological origins of the Universe and verifies/validates the God concept... I'll surely believe.
...
Until then, i'm going to believe that positive character traits, such as love, empathy and honesty are not signs of God being in that person... and give the person the credit for his/her character. We do not have to possess religion in order to be good people... we get that from the humanity within our own being.
Hail, Hail!!!
Look at Creationism of the religion and the Evolution into its present form... from ancient tales that explain the natural world to Neolithic societies to Hebrew written texts to Christianity's birth and its transformation into the Church of Rome to its split by King Henry VIII so he could divorce and retain the throne to the church that was brought to the Americas.
It does not take away from God, because you don't need religion to find God. You can still find hope, comfort, joy and inspiration in those texts, even when you discover it was written by men, 'inspired by their beliefs in God', and not by God, Himself. That explains why God possesses petty human character traits and passes judgement on us.
You can find God in His cathedrals... the mountains and beaches and open fields... not only in the pews and words of men regurgitating approved doctrine based upon institutional translations and interpretations.
Hail, Hail!!!
The ones shoving religion down other people's throats are the ones who support teaching "intelligent design, i.e. Creationism" in schools, shout that homosexuals are going to tell, yell and scream at women going to Planned Parenthood that they are evil/going to hell, support prayer in public schools, want to deny women access to legal abortion, etc. Many of these folks are hypocrites, including an number of male pro fetus rights proponents whose mistresses were pressured by them into having abortions. And you can't have missed all the folks who claim that this is a "christian" country
and the second half of your post and all those things you say we should be able to believe in we have here in America and as far as Afghanistan goes isn't that a mostly muslim country and most or all attacks or wars fought or started by "radical"muslims the only Christian conflict I have heard of in the middle east is that Christain Pastor who is being held by a muslin court for being a Christain and not a muslim.
Godfather.
Godfather.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Most schools have numerous clubs that address a wide variety of beliefs held by the students in any given school. My school has both FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) and GSA (Gay/Straight Alliance). We also start each morning with a moment of silence - that can be interpreted however one chooses. It can be a time of prayer or reflection or just 2 seconds that they have to be quiet! I have so many different students from varying faiths - whose faith am I supposed to uphold and which faith do I throw by the wayside? In a public school, we are required to uphold no religion as that would be unconstitutional.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE