Hear the fans - Bring Pearl Jam To Israel

badbrains

CM189191 said:

So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.

/see what I did there?

Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.

benjs

badbrains said:

CM189191 said:

So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.

/see what I did there?

Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.

I've seen few people more disgusted by the burning of the Palestinian boy than Israelis themselves. There is shock and horror rampant amongst those people right now and if you think otherwise, you are deluded. I'm Jewish by obligation (ie. my beliefs are not aligned with Judaism but I was born into it), but I don't have a Zionistic or religious bone in my body: I believe in humanism. For who ever was responsible for burning a human body to make a point, a horrifying act which displays flagrant lack of respect for human life, I can't think of a punishment such a soulless person would deserve. To have the person killed seems too kind of a gesture.

badbrains

benjs said:

badbrains said:

CM189191 said:

So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.

/see what I did there?

Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.

I've seen few people more disgusted by the burning of the Palestinian boy than Israelis themselves. There is shock and horror rampant amongst those people right now and if you think otherwise, you are deluded. I'm Jewish by obligation (ie. my beliefs are not aligned with Judaism but I was born into it), but I don't have a Zionistic or religious bone in my body: I believe in humanism. For who ever was responsible for burning a human body to make a point, a horrifying act which displays flagrant lack of respect for human life, I can't think of a punishment such a soulless person would deserve. To have the person killed seems too kind of a gesture.

All of a sudden they're shocked and disgusted? Now? After all these years, they're finally shocked and disgusted as a nation? I'm in no way deluded benj.

I do respect your stance on this cold blooded murder. It is a shock, it is disgusting. What's gonna be more disgusting, is when NOTHING gets done to those terrorists that burned that child alive. Nothing, and if anyone who knows Israeli justice towards Israelis knows, that's exactly what's gonna happen.

rr165892

badbrains said:

CM189191 said:

So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.

/see what I did there?

Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.

Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.

CM189191

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:

CM189191 said:

So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.

/see what I did there?

Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.

Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.

This is but one of many examples:

Released September 21, 2001

We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

Signed:
Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA)
American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ)
American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA)
Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California)
Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area
Islamic Networks Group (ING)
Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA)
Islamic Society of San Francisco
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone
Muslim American Society
Muslim Community Association (MCA)
Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY)
South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA)
Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)

Google: Learn It, Love It, Use It

Drowned Out

rr165892 said:

Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.

You acknowledge that there are idiots and extremists on both sides, yet you seem to set Islamic fundamentalism aside from the zionist and/or jewish extremists. They are the ones with all the power, in control of the situation, yet it is up to the people they're oppressing to denounce violence?
You don't recognize the amount of blatant anti-arab racism running rampant in Israel since the three settlers were killed? Aside from the lynching, there have been large protests where people chant 'death to arabs', among other sickening terms. These people were filmed stopping cars to check identities, letting jews pass.... Netanyahu incited much of this violence. A chief rabbi called for vengeance. Another Israeli lawmaker called for straight up genocide (via reciting an old letter on her facebook)....this call for genocide of arabs was shared over a thousand times and had nearly 5,000 'likes' overnight. So where is your outrage over extremist jews, hardline zionists, anit-arab racists, etc? You're sitting here telling us it's a two-way street, without taking your own advice.

Drowned Out

rr165892 said:

Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.

Another thing....not only are you putting the onus on the Palestinians to end the occupation - something they have zero control over, but you are sitting here telling them they need to denounce terrorism and use non-violent means to rally support for their cause. Well sir, wtf do you think the Boycott/Divest/Sanction movement is all about??? You know, the one we're asking PJ to support by NOT playing in Israel?
The entire point of the movement is to raise awareness about the plight of the Palestinians, and to pressure Israel to end the occupation in a peaceful way. And it’s working. Sodastream is closing their UK flagship store, and their deal with Starbucks fell apart. 12 more EU countries have called for boycotts of companies dealing in settlement products. Unite, Britain’s largest trade union just announced that they consider Israel guilty of apartheid, and have joined the movement. It’s working. This is just in the last few days. But Israel’s apologists in this thread would deny the Palestinians their only effective means of reaching out to people of conscience for help.

rr165892

CM189191 said:

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:

CM189191 said:

So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.

/see what I did there?

Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.

Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.

This is but one of many examples:

Released September 21, 2001

We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

Signed:
Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA)
American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ)
American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA)
Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California)
Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area
Islamic Networks Group (ING)
Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA)
Islamic Society of San Francisco
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone
Muslim American Society
Muslim Community Association (MCA)
Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY)
South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA)
Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)

Google: Learn It, Love It, Use It

That was 13 years ago.Its been very quiet since.

rr165892

Drowned Out said:

rr165892 said:

Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.

You acknowledge that there are idiots and extremists on both sides, yet you seem to set Islamic fundamentalism aside from the zionist and/or jewish extremists. They are the ones with all the power, in control of the situation, yet it is up to the people they're oppressing to denounce violence?
You don't recognize the amount of blatant anti-arab racism running rampant in Israel since the three settlers were killed? Aside from the lynching, there have been large protests where people chant 'death to arabs', among other sickening terms. These people were filmed stopping cars to check identities, letting jews pass.... Netanyahu incited much of this violence. A chief rabbi called for vengeance. Another Israeli lawmaker called for straight up genocide (via reciting an old letter on her facebook)....this call for genocide of arabs was shared over a thousand times and had nearly 5,000 'likes' overnight. So where is your outrage over extremist jews, hardline zionists, anit-arab racists, etc? You're sitting here telling us it's a two-way street, without taking your own advice.

That would be the Idiots.When looking at this issue the west Dosent see or hear about any Israeli hate towards Arabs .I know it exists.But it is confined to your situation and is the only one globally you would find.The Arab hate for the west and Jews is not only more widespread throughout most the Middle East but is also aimed at my country and our military.They are killing our sons and daughters as well.The Israelis are not.
Like I said I do not condone any of this hate,Id love for all of it to stop.I wish I knew the answer.I wish you all knew the answer.Its clear to me no one over there does.But the continued Islamic movement toward a strict Muslim code,isolating all people who are different and the same just not Muslim enough,is dangerous and ridiculous and will not move your cause forward even a little bit.

I appreciate your passion gentlemen even though I don't agree 100%.Im sure living within that world would have many obstacles .At least you have the balls to argue your convictions.This thread is a real hot button that most on this site won't touch.

Drowned Out

I agree with your first two sentences. But it's not 'my' situation...tho as a white, atheist-leaning white guy from canada, it becomes my situation when my government gives unflinching support to israel; financially, diplomatically, and as you agreed, from a propaganda/PR perspective. My government is complicit in the occupation. So ya, I feel a need to speak out against it every chance I get.

your approach sounds reactionary to me. there are so many more factors to terrorism and learned hate than your post would suggest. I do not buy your implied theory that Muslims, particularly middle eastern Muslims, are inherently more violent than peoples of any other race or creed. you totally overlook the socio-economic factors that lead to violence and extremism, and the roll our modern colonial powers have played in the region for...well, centuries.

The move toward a strict Muslim code that you speak of involves mostly countries dealing with inner turmoil and foreign invaders stirring sectarian tensions....most of whom are financed and armed by western powers and their regional allies, btw. In a broader focus, I would be willing to wager, the millions of Muslims living in peaceful areas are generally more likely to be moving away from the extremist interpretations of Islam, than toward them....I think your generalizations are out of line.

rr165892

Reactionary?Maybe a little,Simplifying the jumble in my head into a few sentences on a Pearl Jam fan forum definitely.I do think you have blinders on If you think that Anti western sentiment is not an extremely popular way of thinking thru-out the majority of the Middle East and Northern Africa.
I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc.
I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate.
If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.

badbrains

rr165892 said:

Reactionary?Maybe a little,Simplifying the jumble in my head into a few sentences on a Pearl Jam fan forum definitely.I do think you have blinders on If you think that Anti western sentiment is not an extremely popular way of thinking thru-out the majority of the Middle East and Northern Africa.
I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc.
I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate.
If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.

Now you're straight fucken lying RR! I've been to syria 3 times in the past up to the day the Arab "spring" began. And I didn't leave because of the spring but because my tix said it was time for me to leave. You are spreading hate and lies! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're Jewish in religion, am I correct? Be honest to. Dnt give us no bullshit like your posts. You're trying to sound like you're not a bigot but I'm def seeing racism in you. Anybody who uses lies as tactics to spread hate is nothing more than a racist. Just so u remember correctly, it was the Israelis who burned this child alive. Remember that when u bunch all Muslims together as animals. 2014 and people still think like this? Unreal

Edit- just to clarify to, I'm circassion, my people come from the Caucasus mts, so u can't get any whiter then us. And I was treated awesome there in syria. The Middle East may hate the west and when I say the west I mean the governments that run the west. They'd welcome u with open arms if u ever went to syria back then.

rr165892

What's a lie???Whats bullshit??What hate am I spreading??Please do clarify!!Im not bunching ALL Muslims together.Im asking for them to show some fucking backbone and denounce terror that comes from there own.
Rascist,SMFH.Give me one example.Now the way you championing the Palestinian cause I could say you are quite one sided,but I'm not going there.
I take a pro west,Very Pro American,anti terror(of ALL shapes and fashion) stance here.Nothing more.I call it like I see it.I am equally outraged at violence against the Palestinians as I am the Israelis.Are you just cherry picking my responses?

benjs

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

Reactionary?Maybe a little,Simplifying the jumble in my head into a few sentences on a Pearl Jam fan forum definitely.I do think you have blinders on If you think that Anti western sentiment is not an extremely popular way of thinking thru-out the majority of the Middle East and Northern Africa.
I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc.
I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate.
If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.

Now you're straight fucken lying RR! I've been to syria 3 times in the past up to the day the Arab "spring" began. And I didn't leave because of the spring but because my tix said it was time for me to leave. You are spreading hate and lies! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're Jewish in religion, am I correct? Be honest to. Dnt give us no bullshit like your posts. You're trying to sound like you're not a bigot but I'm def seeing racism in you. Anybody who uses lies as tactics to spread hate is nothing more than a racist. Just so u remember correctly, it was the Israelis who burned this child alive. Remember that when u bunch all Muslims together as animals. 2014 and people still think like this? Unreal

Edit- just to clarify to, I'm circassion, my people come from the Caucasus mts, so u can't get any whiter then us. And I was treated awesome there in syria. The Middle East may hate the west and when I say the west I mean the governments that run the west. They'd welcome u with open arms if u ever went to syria back then.

Badbrains, I'm not sure why it matters if the OP is Jewish or not. Not all Jews are racists, and not all racists are Jews. Some Jews are racists, and some racists are Jews. The same can be said about any other social/political/religious division. Just as you (rightly) criticize the OP for 'bunching all Muslims together as animals', you then continue on to say 'it was the Israelis who burned this child alive'. These generalizations are not good for anyone, and this is far from a semantic argument: when you project one or few's actions onto a larger group, you are simply breeding further conflict.

badbrains

I apologize for lumping all "Jews" together. Wasn't my intentions. When I usually say Israeli I mean government of Israel. Which most times I clarify but I didn't. And in this thread I meant Israeli Settlers. And yes they are terrorist too. All sides have terrorist but to claim that Israel is innocent of these practices is complete bull shit. I understand that RR is pro-USA everything, which he has EVERY RIGHT TO BE. And I'll be pro Palestinian all I want just like I have the right. It's just when you come out screaming about Muslims being terrorists and yet stay silent in the actions of the Israeli governments practices is phony. And people see it. RR has been whaling about the Palestinians and Muslims all thread long but hasn't really said anything to denounce the actions of the Israelis in all this. He's said all terrorism is wrong and so can anyone else, but he's singling out the Muslims and Palestinians. I asked him what he thought should happen to the Israeli terrorists who where arrested for burning that child alive, and he hasn't answered.

When I called u a liar it was cuz of your comment about being unsafe in the Middle East cuz someone's white. Bull shit, I've been to the Middle East many times and have had zero problems there. Funny tho, I usually get problems when I come back from customs.

rr165892

Lets at least get some of this shit straight.I have never said "all"Muslims are animals.I have clients,business associates and friends who practice the faith.I have not called anyone or any race a racial slur.Ive made it clear and answered your question I think anyone practicing in beatings or terror should be held to account to the fullest extent of the law.(all sides)If you read the last few discussions here you will see that is accurate.Further more,I lied about nothing.In your opinion am I wrong.sure.So be it.My state dept says different.Hence the travel warnings and cautions to western interests in the area.
I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.

rr165892

1 more very important thing.Fucking Leeds got Ghost tonight.Lucky bastards.Great set list.Sorry to break up the discussion with PJ news

badbrains

rr165892 said:

Lets at least get some of this shit straight.I have never said "all"Muslims are animals.I have clients,business associates and friends who practice the faith.I have not called anyone or any race a racial slur.Ive made it clear and answered your question I think anyone practicing in beatings or terror should be held to account to the fullest extent of the law.(all sides)If you read the last few discussions here you will see that is accurate.Further more,I lied about nothing.In your opinion am I wrong.sure.So be it.My state dept says different.Hence the travel warnings and cautions to western interests in the area.
I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.

Fair enough RR. I really can't argue with this post. It's really not as cut and dry as u have it, wish it was. Not gonna get into it with you. I see that you def have included both sides with the issues. And I respect that, but it's much more deeper then that. And honestly, it's been a fucken hell of a crazy week in the Middle East. Lots of fucked up shit that's for sure. Good luck to the PEOPLE of Israel, u never know, u mite one day get your show.

rr165892

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

Lets at least get some of this shit straight.I have never said "all"Muslims are animals.I have clients,business associates and friends who practice the faith.I have not called anyone or any race a racial slur.Ive made it clear and answered your question I think anyone practicing in beatings or terror should be held to account to the fullest extent of the law.(all sides)If you read the last few discussions here you will see that is accurate.Further more,I lied about nothing.In your opinion am I wrong.sure.So be it.My state dept says different.Hence the travel warnings and cautions to western interests in the area.
I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.

Fair enough RR. I really can't argue with this post. It's really not as cut and dry as u have it, wish it was. Not gonna get into it with you. I see that you def have included both sides with the issues. And I respect that, but it's much more deeper then that. And honestly, it's been a fucken hell of a crazy week in the Middle East. Lots of fucked up shit that's for sure. Good luck to the PEOPLE of Israel, u never know, u mite one day get your show.

Im getting my show when Isee them this fall.I wish for all people of Israel to get a show of there own.But as I type this Ive got CNN on and it Dosent look good for Anyone over there.Hope this all ends soon.Very much a powder keg.Its our conversation on steriods with bombs and missiles.Unreal.Its time for a cold beer.

PJ_Soul

So do people still want PJ to play Israel, or are we putting that idea on hold for the time being?