Global warming

brianlux

BS44325

MakingWaves said:

cottagesteeze said:

MakingWaves said:

brianlux said:

MakingWaves said:

A couple of interesting reads.  I read an article about a year ago that this would be happening around 2025 based on the position of the magnetic poles of the sun...if I am remembering correctly.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/217736/20171229/a-mini-ice-age-could-happen-within-the-next-few-decades-global-warming-canceled.htm
https://www.themonitordaily.com/earth-mini-ice-age-study/215046/

Do yourself a favor and read the book or watch the film called "Merchants of Doubt".  Don't be fooled by them.

I don't think they are trying to fool anyone.  There is some science behind this and some modeling that goes back thousands of years and matches up with similar times during the earths history.  I know it's not 100% guaranteed it's going to happen but it is interesting.  It just makes me realize how small we are when it comes to the earth and the universe as a whole.  We have to treat nature with respect or she will shake us off like a bad case of fleas....like George Carlin used to say.

Is it just me or does the line "there is some science behind this" prove that you actually lack enough understanding of the science to tell if it is fake?

Damn, this is a rude group of people.  I never said I didn't believe in climate change or that what the majority of the replies on here said were incorrect.  Yes, I have plenty of understanding of the science behind these articles and I have read a lot of other science articles on the topic because I think it is interesting.  I actually found it interesting that this was just now being discussed in mainstream media which is why I brought it up here.  Now before anyone jumps all over me I will say it's the first time I have seen it discussed in mainstream media...I am not part of some anti-climate change circle so I haven't seen it discussed like was mentioned before.
The cooling down of the earth and models done over the past few years has shown there is a correlation between this occurring and the magnetic poles or waves of the sun.  There is a chance...a chance..that this could occur again in the next 10 years or so.  Does this mean that climate change doesn't exist and that we don't need to do anything and everything we can do to clean up our act and be more responsible for future generations...fuck no!  And by simply dismissing this you are doing the same thing that people on here complain about by simply dismissing this and  picking and choosing the science you want to believe in order to support your argument.  I don't see this information or opinion as anti-climate change propaganda.  To me it's another example of climate change!
Anyway..I'm done.  This is why i quit the Moving Train quite a few years back.  If you have a different opinion or simply try to add something to the argument people assume you are an idiot and refuse to have an open mind.    

These are not scientists MakingWaves. When it comes to discussing climate change it is a religious cult.

brianlux

OK, can we stop with the rude remarks and the posturing, immature jabs, macho bravado, mean spirited remarks (most of us, including me, have done one or more of those here) and talk about real science here?

Real climate science is not something easily spewed on a rock and roll band's fan club site.   Real climate scientists do not throw jabs at fellow posters on line (everyone here who has done that, put your hand up.  Mine's up.  Come on, put 'em up!).  Real climate scientists are not in it for glory or (contrary to what some would say) strictly for the money (but they do have to make a living).  Real climate scientists are more interested in facts, not having their side "win". 

Real climate scientist and their work can be found here:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://www.noaa.gov/climate

https://www.ucsusa.org/

brianlux

Yet another good reason to start working on lessening anthropogenic global warming... ASAP!  Ignoring these signs is sheer madness and suicidal behavior.   This is no religious B.S. here.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/04/oceans-suffocating-dead-zones-oxygen-starved

Oceans suffocating as huge dead zones quadruple since 1950, scientists warn

Areas starved of oxygen in open ocean and by coasts have soared in recent decades, risking dire consequences for marine life and humanity. 

Ocean dead zones with zero oxygen have quadrupled in size since 1950, scientists have warned, while the number of very low oxygen sites near coasts have multiplied tenfold. Most sea creatures cannot survive in these zones and current trends would lead to mass extinction in the long run, risking dire consequences for the hundreds of millions of people who depend on the sea.

 Climate change caused by fossil fuel burning is the cause of the large-scale deoxygenation, as warmer waters hold less oxygen. The coastal dead zones result from fertiliser and sewage running off the land and into the seas.

More at link.

cottagesteeze

MakingWaves said:

cottagesteeze said:

MakingWaves said:

brianlux said:

MakingWaves said:

A couple of interesting reads.  I read an article about a year ago that this would be happening around 2025 based on the position of the magnetic poles of the sun...if I am remembering correctly.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/217736/20171229/a-mini-ice-age-could-happen-within-the-next-few-decades-global-warming-canceled.htm
https://www.themonitordaily.com/earth-mini-ice-age-study/215046/

Do yourself a favor and read the book or watch the film called "Merchants of Doubt".  Don't be fooled by them.

I don't think they are trying to fool anyone.  There is some science behind this and some modeling that goes back thousands of years and matches up with similar times during the earths history.  I know it's not 100% guaranteed it's going to happen but it is interesting.  It just makes me realize how small we are when it comes to the earth and the universe as a whole.  We have to treat nature with respect or she will shake us off like a bad case of fleas....like George Carlin used to say.

Is it just me or does the line "there is some science behind this" prove that you actually lack enough understanding of the science to tell if it is fake?

Damn, this is a rude group of people.  I never said I didn't believe in climate change or that what the majority of the replies on here said were incorrect.  Yes, I have plenty of understanding of the science behind these articles and I have read a lot of other science articles on the topic because I think it is interesting.  I actually found it interesting that this was just now being discussed in mainstream media which is why I brought it up here.  Now before anyone jumps all over me I will say it's the first time I have seen it discussed in mainstream media...I am not part of some anti-climate change circle so I haven't seen it discussed like was mentioned before.
The cooling down of the earth and models done over the past few years has shown there is a correlation between this occurring and the magnetic poles or waves of the sun.  There is a chance...a chance..that this could occur again in the next 10 years or so.  Does this mean that climate change doesn't exist and that we don't need to do anything and everything we can do to clean up our act and be more responsible for future generations...fuck no!  And by simply dismissing this you are doing the same thing that people on here complain about by simply dismissing this and  picking and choosing the science you want to believe in order to support your argument.  I don't see this information or opinion as anti-climate change propaganda.  To me it's another example of climate change!
Anyway..I'm done.  This is why i quit the Moving Train quite a few years back.  If you have a different opinion or simply try to add something to the argument people assume you are an idiot and refuse to have an open mind.    

Not trying to be rude man. Just calling it what it is. You are aiding in the spread of misinformation, although maybe not on purpose. You said "there is some science behind this" and then promoted misinformation. It's not picking and choosing science, its about having the understanding to read and decipher the science, or "science", and decide what is factual. Science is not based on opinion.

brianlux

Here's an excellent article published by realclimate.org yesterday.  Thank you climate scientists for hard work and yet again, clearing up the fallacious lies of corporate climate deniers! (Also, some of the responses are interesting as well.)

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/


 

PJ_Soul

BS44325 said:

MakingWaves said:

cottagesteeze said:

MakingWaves said:

brianlux said:

MakingWaves said:

A couple of interesting reads.  I read an article about a year ago that this would be happening around 2025 based on the position of the magnetic poles of the sun...if I am remembering correctly.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/217736/20171229/a-mini-ice-age-could-happen-within-the-next-few-decades-global-warming-canceled.htm
https://www.themonitordaily.com/earth-mini-ice-age-study/215046/

Do yourself a favor and read the book or watch the film called "Merchants of Doubt".  Don't be fooled by them.

I don't think they are trying to fool anyone.  There is some science behind this and some modeling that goes back thousands of years and matches up with similar times during the earths history.  I know it's not 100% guaranteed it's going to happen but it is interesting.  It just makes me realize how small we are when it comes to the earth and the universe as a whole.  We have to treat nature with respect or she will shake us off like a bad case of fleas....like George Carlin used to say.

Is it just me or does the line "there is some science behind this" prove that you actually lack enough understanding of the science to tell if it is fake?

Damn, this is a rude group of people.  I never said I didn't believe in climate change or that what the majority of the replies on here said were incorrect.  Yes, I have plenty of understanding of the science behind these articles and I have read a lot of other science articles on the topic because I think it is interesting.  I actually found it interesting that this was just now being discussed in mainstream media which is why I brought it up here.  Now before anyone jumps all over me I will say it's the first time I have seen it discussed in mainstream media...I am not part of some anti-climate change circle so I haven't seen it discussed like was mentioned before.
The cooling down of the earth and models done over the past few years has shown there is a correlation between this occurring and the magnetic poles or waves of the sun.  There is a chance...a chance..that this could occur again in the next 10 years or so.  Does this mean that climate change doesn't exist and that we don't need to do anything and everything we can do to clean up our act and be more responsible for future generations...fuck no!  And by simply dismissing this you are doing the same thing that people on here complain about by simply dismissing this and  picking and choosing the science you want to believe in order to support your argument.  I don't see this information or opinion as anti-climate change propaganda.  To me it's another example of climate change!
Anyway..I'm done.  This is why i quit the Moving Train quite a few years back.  If you have a different opinion or simply try to add something to the argument people assume you are an idiot and refuse to have an open mind.    

These are not scientists MakingWaves. When it comes to discussing climate change it is a religious cult.

That is so ridiculous BS. Holy crap.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

MakingWaves said:

cottagesteeze said:

MakingWaves said:

brianlux said:

MakingWaves said:

A couple of interesting reads.  I read an article about a year ago that this would be happening around 2025 based on the position of the magnetic poles of the sun...if I am remembering correctly.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/217736/20171229/a-mini-ice-age-could-happen-within-the-next-few-decades-global-warming-canceled.htm
https://www.themonitordaily.com/earth-mini-ice-age-study/215046/

Do yourself a favor and read the book or watch the film called "Merchants of Doubt".  Don't be fooled by them.

I don't think they are trying to fool anyone.  There is some science behind this and some modeling that goes back thousands of years and matches up with similar times during the earths history.  I know it's not 100% guaranteed it's going to happen but it is interesting.  It just makes me realize how small we are when it comes to the earth and the universe as a whole.  We have to treat nature with respect or she will shake us off like a bad case of fleas....like George Carlin used to say.

Is it just me or does the line "there is some science behind this" prove that you actually lack enough understanding of the science to tell if it is fake?

Damn, this is a rude group of people.  I never said I didn't believe in climate change or that what the majority of the replies on here said were incorrect.  Yes, I have plenty of understanding of the science behind these articles and I have read a lot of other science articles on the topic because I think it is interesting.  I actually found it interesting that this was just now being discussed in mainstream media which is why I brought it up here.  Now before anyone jumps all over me I will say it's the first time I have seen it discussed in mainstream media...I am not part of some anti-climate change circle so I haven't seen it discussed like was mentioned before.
The cooling down of the earth and models done over the past few years has shown there is a correlation between this occurring and the magnetic poles or waves of the sun.  There is a chance...a chance..that this could occur again in the next 10 years or so.  Does this mean that climate change doesn't exist and that we don't need to do anything and everything we can do to clean up our act and be more responsible for future generations...fuck no!  And by simply dismissing this you are doing the same thing that people on here complain about by simply dismissing this and  picking and choosing the science you want to believe in order to support your argument.  I don't see this information or opinion as anti-climate change propaganda.  To me it's another example of climate change!
Anyway..I'm done.  This is why i quit the Moving Train quite a few years back.  If you have a different opinion or simply try to add something to the argument people assume you are an idiot and refuse to have an open mind.    

These are not scientists MakingWaves. When it comes to discussing climate change it is a religious cult.

That is so ridiculous BS. Holy crap.

I just had to laugh.

Me, I do rain dances, lie prostrate, take magic herbs, light candles, burn incense and sacrifice lambs for climate change.

For global warming though, I most try to reduce my CO2 output.

camsjam

Last Wednesday I watched Blue Planet II on BBC America. An excellent show. They featured a part on polar oceans and showed a walrus mother and her baby trying to find an ice floe in the water to be able to rest on. So much of the ice is melting it's hard for the animals to adapt. Same problem with the polar bears...many are being driven to land for longer and longer periods. There's no doubt the climate is changing. Maybe there is valid debates on the causes but to deny it's happening is wrong.

brianlux

camsjam said:

Last Wednesday I watched Blue Planet II on BBC America. An excellent show. They featured a part on polar oceans and showed a walrus mother and her baby trying to find an ice floe in the water to be able to rest on. So much of the ice is melting it's hard for the animals to adapt. Same problem with the polar bears...many are being driven to land for longer and longer periods. There's no doubt the climate is changing. Maybe there is valid debates on the causes but to deny it's happening is wrong.

The causes are talked about in this article as well, camsjam.  The vast majority of the climate scientist agree, the cause is anthropogenic- human made.  Here it is again:


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/

brianlux

brianlux said:

camsjam said:

Last Wednesday I watched Blue Planet II on BBC America. An excellent show. They featured a part on polar oceans and showed a walrus mother and her baby trying to find an ice floe in the water to be able to rest on. So much of the ice is melting it's hard for the animals to adapt. Same problem with the polar bears...many are being driven to land for longer and longer periods. There's no doubt the climate is changing. Maybe there is valid debates on the causes but to deny it's happening is wrong.

The causes are talked about in this article as well, camsjam.  The vast majority of the climate scientist agree, the cause is anthropogenic- human made.  Here it is again:


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/

I'll edit/quote my own post here by saying, don't believe me about this.  Who am I?  What do I know?  No, listen to and read the people who do this for a living.  Not for glory or for political gain.  Almost all of them do it because they are scientists, those beautiful geeks, who are curious and seek to learn and understand as much as they can about our world and our universe. 

camsjam

I didn't mean to imply that your beliefs were wrong...I believe that humans are messing up the natural order of the world at an astonishing pace. I was just saying it is unreal that there are those who deny climate change exists. 

brianlux

camsjam said:

I didn't mean to imply that your beliefs were wrong...I believe that humans are messing up the natural order of the world at an astonishing pace. I was just saying it is unreal that there are those who deny climate change exists. 

No worries, cams- sorry if I misunderstood!    

It really is amazing that there are deniers still.  I sometimes wonder if that's just a front because some people believe that if they say, "Yeah, climate is changing, the planet is warming," they think that somehow that makes them a traitor to their party or political philosophy.  That's hugely unfortunate and ironic as the climate situation knows no political boundaries.  I wish we could somehow leave left and right out of this one.  It's like saying, well, I can't support the idea of preventing mass starvation because the other party thought of it first.

my2hands

Don't think 7 billion humans aren't fucking up the planet? I've got a bridge to sell ya lol

PJ_Soul

Senate confirms a former coal lobbyist as Scott Pruitt’s second-in-command at EPA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-senate-is-about-to-confirm-a-coal-lobbyist-as-top-epa-deputy/2018/04/12/b1bb6844-3dbe-11e8-a7d1-e4efec6389f0_story.html?utm_term=.0f39c93d52fb&wpisrc=al_politics__alert-politics&wpmk=1

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

Senate confirms a former coal lobbyist as Scott Pruitt’s second-in-command at EPA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-senate-is-about-to-confirm-a-coal-lobbyist-as-top-epa-deputy/2018/04/12/b1bb6844-3dbe-11e8-a7d1-e4efec6389f0_story.html?utm_term=.0f39c93d52fb&wpisrc=al_politics__alert-politics&wpmk=1

This has got to be another mass suicide act on the part of the powers that be. 

realclimate,org recently published this article that shows indications that the Gulf Stream System is weakening as a result of global warming.  This is not good news. 

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/04/stronger-evidence-for-a-weaker-atlantic-overturning-circulation/

So what do the powers that be do?  The confirm an coal lobbyist as part of the EPA.  Brilliant.

MakingWaves

Saw this article and thought it was very interesting.  We can screw up an environment without even trying.

https://www.livescience.com/62805-moon-surface-warming-apollo-astronauts.html

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

camsjam said:

I didn't mean to imply that your beliefs were wrong...I believe that humans are messing up the natural order of the world at an astonishing pace. I was just saying it is unreal that there are those who deny climate change exists. 

No worries, cams- sorry if I misunderstood!    

It really is amazing that there are deniers still.  I sometimes wonder if that's just a front because some people believe that if they say, "Yeah, climate is changing, the planet is warming," they think that somehow that makes them a traitor to their party or political philosophy.  That's hugely unfortunate and ironic as the climate situation knows no political boundaries.  I wish we could somehow leave left and right out of this one.  It's like saying, well, I can't support the idea of preventing mass starvation because the other party thought of it first.

hey brian, has there been any research as to the possibility of not only halting human-caused climate change, but is there any way to reverse it in any way?

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

camsjam said:

I didn't mean to imply that your beliefs were wrong...I believe that humans are messing up the natural order of the world at an astonishing pace. I was just saying it is unreal that there are those who deny climate change exists. 

No worries, cams- sorry if I misunderstood!    

It really is amazing that there are deniers still.  I sometimes wonder if that's just a front because some people believe that if they say, "Yeah, climate is changing, the planet is warming," they think that somehow that makes them a traitor to their party or political philosophy.  That's hugely unfortunate and ironic as the climate situation knows no political boundaries.  I wish we could somehow leave left and right out of this one.  It's like saying, well, I can't support the idea of preventing mass starvation because the other party thought of it first.

hey brian, has there been any research as to the possibility of not only halting human-caused climate change, but is there any way to reverse it in any way?

I heard of several idea that help in small ways.  For example, we just had a new roof put on our house and the shingles, though they look like regular roof shingles and don't look reflective, apparently do reflect light with intent of helping reduce global warming.  Another roof related help is the trend in many cities to create roof gardens.

Some of the global warming reversing schemes I've read about seem a bit far-fetched to me like sending up solar shields into space or building giant machines to "scrub" the air of carbon.  I don't see how the huge cost, the amount of resources needed and the added pollution from building these things would make them feasible.

My own thought is these more outlandish ideas are just another way humans in general believe we are more capable of keeping the earth in check than nature is.  It makes more sense to me to keep working to lower human population and for all of us to learn to consume less, and follow the three r's: reduce, reuse, recycle.  I think if we lower our impact on the environment and reduce natural resource consumption, nature will do just find establishing balances the way it has for eons.

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

camsjam said:

I didn't mean to imply that your beliefs were wrong...I believe that humans are messing up the natural order of the world at an astonishing pace. I was just saying it is unreal that there are those who deny climate change exists. 

No worries, cams- sorry if I misunderstood!    

It really is amazing that there are deniers still.  I sometimes wonder if that's just a front because some people believe that if they say, "Yeah, climate is changing, the planet is warming," they think that somehow that makes them a traitor to their party or political philosophy.  That's hugely unfortunate and ironic as the climate situation knows no political boundaries.  I wish we could somehow leave left and right out of this one.  It's like saying, well, I can't support the idea of preventing mass starvation because the other party thought of it first.

hey brian, has there been any research as to the possibility of not only halting human-caused climate change, but is there any way to reverse it in any way?

I heard of several idea that help in small ways.  For example, we just had a new roof put on our house and the shingles, though they look like regular roof shingles and don't look reflective, apparently do reflect light with intent of helping reduce global warming.  Another roof related help is the trend in many cities to create roof gardens.

Some of the global warming reversing schemes I've read about seem a bit far-fetched to me like sending up solar shields into space or building giant machines to "scrub" the air of carbon.  I don't see how the huge cost, the amount of resources needed and the added pollution from building these things would make them feasible.

My own thought is these more outlandish ideas are just another way humans in general believe we are more capable of keeping the earth in check than nature is.  It makes more sense to me to keep working to lower human population and for all of us to learn to consume less, and follow the three r's: reduce, reuse, recycle.  I think if we lower our impact on the environment and reduce natural resource consumption, nature will do just find establishing balances the way it has for eons.

As long as people want to continue clinging to capitalism as an economic structure, the population will have to keep growing, since capitalism only works when it has endless growth, and that's not possible without growing the population right along with it.