Global warming

rgambs

http://www.coca-colacompany.com/position-statement-on-climate-protection

Is it convincing for a "libertarian", "republican", or "conservative" minded person when an international, free market corporation is concerned about it's effect on their bottom line? How about if it's a special topic at Davos among several large corps'?

probably not, we all know reality has such a liberal bias it is impossible to stomach for some...for jeebus' sake we still have to defend evolution and birth control!!! 'merica is just a sad..sad..sad sack a taters

dignin

unsung said:

This is Chicago's 13th coldest winter since 1872 and it is currently -10 with wind chills around -40.

And elsewhere it's the hottest on record. What's your point?

"It's raining right now. Therefore the sun is a hoax"

https://twitter.com/brookejarvis/status/421076802279186434

unsung

My point is that climates cycle.

You want to fix this? Crack down on China.

Someone should link that thread again that was on here a few years ago, it was really awful what China is doing.

Cosmo

unsung said:

My point is that climates cycle.

You want to fix this? Crack down on China.

Someone should link that thread again that was on here a few years ago, it was really awful what China is doing.

...
It would be easier to crack down on China... if China wasn't following our lead. Remember, America is at the forefront of the idea that climate change has nothing to do with Mankind. If we're not going to do anything about it.. why should we expect China to change?

brianlux

unsung said:

My point is that climates cycle.

You want to fix this? Crack down on China.

Someone should link that thread again that was on here a few years ago, it was really awful what China is doing.

You're absolutely right, unsung, climate cycles. But what we are experiencing now is an unprecedented cycle in that it is happening faster than any time before and the change is anthropogenic. And yes, China is a major player in that latter factor but their major contribution comes from industry and guess who drives their industry by purchasing their products- much of which is non-essential crap made to break in short order? Yeah, you-know-who. Lets not throw stones at China until we look at ourselves. On second thought, let's throw Stone at China. He seems to have a pretty good fix on environmental issues.

Cosmo

brianlux said:

unsung said:

My point is that climates cycle.
You want to fix this? Crack down on China.
Someone should link that thread again that was on here a few years ago, it was really awful what China is doing.

You're absolutely right, unsung, climate cycles. But what we are experiencing now is an unprecedented cycle in that it is happening faster than any time before and the change is anthropogenic. And yes, China is a major player in that latter factor but their major contribution comes from industry and guess who drives their industry by purchasing their products- much of which is non-essential crap made to break in short order? Yeah, you-know-who. Lets not throw stones at China until we look at ourselves. On second thought, let's throw Stone at China. He seems to have a pretty good fix on environmental issues.

...
The thing is... America denies that the increase in global temperatures is part of a natural Earth cycle and that we (Mankind) are not a contributing factor.
If that is the case, then why would we think that China's industries are a contributing factor?
...
I just want someone to explain that reasoning. If Man is not contributing to global warming, then, why would we hold China to task?

polaris_x

unsung said:

My point is that climates cycle.

You want to fix this? Crack down on China.

Someone should link that thread again that was on here a few years ago, it was really awful what China is doing.

so ... the second biggest contributor thinks the fix is cracking down on the biggest contributor?

bizarre ...

if the US spent all that money they do on WMD on generating clean energy ... they could truly lead the world in a democratic revolution ...

Last-12-Exit

polaris_x said:

unsung said:

My point is that climates cycle.

You want to fix this? Crack down on China.

Someone should link that thread again that was on here a few years ago, it was really awful what China is doing.

so ... the second biggest contributor thinks the fix is cracking down on the biggest contributor?

bizarre ...

if the US spent all that money they do on WMD on generating clean energy ... they could truly lead the world in a democratic revolution ...

The US HAS cracked down in carbon emissions. My company closed two power plants last year because Obama and the EPA has made it to fucking expensive to burn coal. So yes, unless the world can somehow contain China on the emissions they are pumping out, all the jobs lost and carbon emissions "saved" here, will be for nothing.

polaris_x

Last-12-Exit said:

The US HAS cracked down in carbon emissions. My company closed two power plants last year because Obama and the EPA has made it to fucking expensive to burn coal. So yes, unless the world can somehow contain China on the emissions they are pumping out, all the jobs lost and carbon emissions "saved" here, will be for nothing.

that's simply not factual ... the manufacturing sector died and so did emissions ... it's gonna come back as china starts pricing themselves out ...

look at emissions per capita and see where the US sits ... you haven't saved a thing ...

Last-12-Exit

what exactly is not factual? The fact that my company closed two plants because it was to expensive to burn coal? Or was it the fact that the people working at those plants lost their job? Or the fact that since those two plants aren't burning coal, that those are carbon emissions not being put in the atmosphere?

brianlux

Last-12-Exit said:

what exactly is not factual? The fact that my company closed two plants because it was to expensive to burn coal? Or was it the fact that the people working at those plants lost their job? Or the fact that since those two plants aren't burning coal, that those are carbon emissions not being put in the atmosphere?

Your being angry is understandable. Losing jobs sucks. Maybe vent that anger toward to powers that be that aren't creating more jobs in renewable energy. But please don't vent your anger at people who are expressing a desire to keep this world livable for humans and other animals. On a planet that is not hospitable to human life there will be no jobs.

polaris_x

Last-12-Exit said:

what exactly is not factual? The fact that my company closed two plants because it was to expensive to burn coal? Or was it the fact that the people working at those plants lost their job? Or the fact that since those two plants aren't burning coal, that those are carbon emissions not being put in the atmosphere?

the part where you said the US HAS cracked down on emissions ... sure, there are some improvements but it's mostly a shifting of the economic functions that has driven the decrease rather than a crack down ...

as for the plant closures - i can say that on one hand, it's not great people are losing jobs but at the end of the day are we to always use that as our purpose!? ... outside of global warming - what about the pollution these coal plants contribute to ... the impact on air quality, respiratory illnesses and it's impact to the economy? ... i mean i'm sure tobacco industry lost a lot of jobs when they starting banning smoking ... are we to try and save that industry?

Jason P

I know by fact that the US is cracking down. To say the EPA is ignored is insane. They will only get more powerful.

Last-12-Exit

polaris_x said:

Last-12-Exit said:

what exactly is not factual? The fact that my company closed two plants because it was to expensive to burn coal? Or was it the fact that the people working at those plants lost their job? Or the fact that since those two plants aren't burning coal, that those are carbon emissions not being put in the atmosphere?

the part where you said the US HAS cracked down on emissions ... sure, there are some improvements but it's mostly a shifting of the economic functions that has driven the decrease rather than a crack down ...

as for the plant closures - i can say that on one hand, it's not great people are losing jobs but at the end of the day are we to always use that as our purpose!? ... outside of global warming - what about the pollution these coal plants contribute to ... the impact on air quality, respiratory illnesses and it's impact to the economy? ... i mean i'm sure tobacco industry lost a lot of jobs when they starting banning smoking ... are we to try and save that industry?

Ohhhh, so Obama and the EPA hasn't made it tougher for coal fired power plants to burn coal?? That's your position?

Please, provide a source for this "fact".

polaris_x

from ...

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/co2.html#Trends

Carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions in the United States increased by about 10% between 1990 and 2011

Going forward, CO2 emissions in the United States are projected to grow by about 1.5% between 2005 and 2020.

listen ... sure there is changes to regulations and some plants may have been affected (although it's hard to say for sure because it's such a political issue) ... but coal still represents 32% of electricity consumption in the states ... hardly a crackdown on coal but more relevantly hardly a crackdown on overall emissions ...

Cosmo

If the argument is that cracking down on CO2 emissions is bad because of the economic impact... then, the same most also hold true for China, shouldn't it? Why should China cut its emissions? China has coal fired power plants and workers, too... don't they?

polaris_x

Cosmo said:

If the argument is that cracking down on CO2 emissions is bad because of the economic impact... then, the same most also hold true for China, shouldn't it? Why should China cut its emissions? China has coal fired power plants and workers, too... don't they?

the argument is that the US has cracked down on emissions and we should focus our energy (no pun intended) on china ... all i'm simply saying is that the US continues to be a major contributor to global emissions and that yeah we need to address china but we can't ignore the US ...

the reality is we can cut our emissions MASSIVELY with very little to no impact on the overall economy ... the big losers would just be the fat cats from big oil and coal ... but these fat cats control the world and they (through the help of gov'ts) can control the messaging ... we haven't needed coal for a looooong time ...

Last-12-Exit

Nothing proves a point better than a graph. Good job with that. But it's totally irrelevant to my point. Which is the EPA and the president has made it very expensive to burn coal. When Obama took office, my company was thriving, now we are shutting down plants. A direct result of new epa regulations. Obviously, Obama knows he cant eliminate coal fired power plants. He can make them pay. That's what he is doing. That's the crackdown.

backseatLover12

The coal industry has gotten away with an awful lot of unregulated companies for many, many, many years. Not saying that there aren't regulations, but that no one's enforcing them. Sort of like that plant in West Virginia that leaked chemicals into the river and wrecked environmental and human havoc a few weeks ago. They haven't been regulated since 1992. Such a comforting thought to the population. *Insert rolling eyes*

It's nice to know that Obama has laid down the hammer with the coal industry. Up next? It better be Big Oil... I know right now that there is a propane shortage in the US and with it being so cold, it doesn't help. I'm sure that'll be next to be paying up.

Jason P

Obama has accomplished few and far between but his war on coal has been one of his most successful victories. The coal-fired industrial boiler industry is all but dead. New plants will be powered by natural gas. I know this because I have been involved negotiations for the procurement of industry boilers and they are being phased out. New plants won't buy them and existing plants will replace their coal fired boilers over the next ten years.

Emission standards have won.