Dear Pearl Jam, let's re-think this whole GA thing..

jrnyc

Seems like there was a traveling band of list czars who were on the rail for multiple shows. Ed even commented at one show he recognized some people up front. This is what needs to be fixed. Everyone should get a shot at the rail, not just the crazies who sleep on the sidewalk or the list czars who abuse the system. Some of us have jobs and a life and would prefer not to spend a day on the sidewalk.

jrnyc

morrmike wrote:

I guess you would take my idea, and remove the seniority component from it.

10c runs a line # lottery and every one has an equal shot at getting a line #, good or bad.

shortstack wrote:

morrmike wrote:

The list already happens and in the shows I went to , most of the same people were on the rail each night (and from the photos I saw, they were on the rail for multiple shows after that).

So that said, both are already happening. Maybe a list without the seniority benefits then? Max people benefit and you don't have the line issues.

so when would the starting of this list happen?

Yep, we have a winner here, lottery for GA spots, puts the list czars out of business.

Cosmo

jrnyc wrote:

Seems like there was a traveling band of list czars who were on the rail for multiple shows. Ed even commented at one show he recognized some people up front. This is what needs to be fixed. Everyone should get a shot at the rail, not just the crazies who sleep on the sidewalk or the list czars who abuse the system. Some of us have jobs and a life and would prefer not to spend a day on the sidewalk.

...
But, the fact of the matter is... that is how General Admission works. That is how General Admission has always worked. If you sacrifice some of your time... you reap the rewards. You don't expect the best spot, just becuase you know you are the best fan of the band.
Also, i work. But, i also get vacation days. I use vacation days when the Foo Fighters are playing a General Admission show at a 200 seat bar... or when the Queens of The Stone Age have a free show at their favorite bar... or when I have a Pearl Jam General Admission ticket in hand. I can't help it if you do not get vacation days. You should try to get a job at some place that gives you vacation days.
General Admission is nothing new... it's been around since the first show I went to in 1971. And it's worked that way just fine ever since.

ckravitz

I really don't care much whether there is GA or not, but I will say I am not a terribly big proponent of the lottery so here's a question relating "GA Rail-Getting" and the ticket lottery.... It seems most agree that people on the rail or up close are more likely to "rock out" because they put the time and effort in to be there. Heck, some have gone so far as to explicitly state this. So the question.... if it is the intention of the band to create more energy, as has been stated and which makes sense (though let's not kids ourselves about the extra money either), then why is there a lottery to get in the building? Wouldn't having everyone put in the time and energy to get in to the building as opposed to just getting picked in a lottery also serve to increase the energy in the building? Quite the same concept, no?

The defense of the lottery usually comes with a statement such as "why should people have to take time off of work or spend 5 hours getting tickets".... but "time and effort" says that setting the system up that way ensures that those that worked for it are rewarded, just like getting close in GA.

Odd that this wouldn't be consistent?

Anyway, just having fun in this dead-horse beating thread.

ckravitz

Cosmo wrote:

If you sacrifice some of your time... you reap the rewards.

Exactly. This expresses my sentiments about the lottery quite concisely. I know I am hijacking for a different purpose than the author intended, but it was so nice and concise!

Cosmo

ckravitz wrote:

I really don't care much whether there is GA or not, but I will say I am not a terribly big proponent of the lottery so here's a question relating "GA Rail-Getting" and the ticket lottery.... It seems most agree that people on the rail or up close are more likely to "rock out" because they put the time and effort in to be there. Heck, some have gone so far as to explicitly state this. So the question.... if it is the intention of the band to create more energy, as has been stated and which makes sense (though let's not kids ourselves about the extra money either), then why is there a lottery to get in the building? Wouldn't having everyone put in the time and energy to get in to the building as opposed to just getting picked in a lottery also serve to increase the energy in the building? Quite the same concept, no?

The defense of the lottery usually comes with a statement such as "why should people have to take time off of work or spend 5 hours getting tickets".... but "time and effort" says that setting the system up that way ensures that those that worked for it are rewarded, just like getting close in GA.

Odd that this wouldn't be consistent?

Anyway, just having fun in this dead-horse beating thread.

...
The oddest thing i have found in this entire discussion is this...
it seems like the concept of General Admission is something new. It's not. There have been general admission shows since the beginning of concerts. There is nothing new about it.
Could a sticking point be... many Pearl Jam fans have never been to a General Admission show?

Wishlist5.1

I enjoyed GA Seattle best tickets and people around me. I had a blast.....

backseatLover12

Cosmo wrote:

The oddest thing i have found in this entire discussion is this...
it seems like the concept of General Admission is something new. It's not. There have been general admission shows since the beginning of concerts. There is nothing new about it.
Could a sticking point be... many Pearl Jam fans have never been to a General Admission show?

I've been saying this since the very first thread on "what to do to prepare for GA". It's as if all these people haven't even been to a concert.... at all! The most basic concert is GA, so where have these people been living, under a rock? Never been to a concert? Never been to a concert in a bar??? It's the basics that these people haven't a clue that drives me crazy.

Cosmo

backseatLover12 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

The oddest thing i have found in this entire discussion is this...
it seems like the concept of General Admission is something new. It's not. There have been general admission shows since the beginning of concerts. There is nothing new about it.
Could a sticking point be... many Pearl Jam fans have never been to a General Admission show?

I've been saying this since the very first thread on "what to do to prepare for GA". It's as if all these people haven't even been to a concert.... at all! The most basic concert is GA, so where have these people been living, under a rock? Never been to a concert? Never been to a concert in a bar??? It's the basics that these people haven't a clue that drives me crazy.

...
Thanx... I was thinking I was alone in this.
People have been going to General Admission concerts for decades. There have been, literally, hundreds of thousands of General Admission concerts. The vast majority of them do not have lists and lotteries and bed checks and seniority and Marks of the Beasts and Line Nazis and Pre-Party line crashers and all of that shit.
It's a pretty fucking simple concept, folks... get in line... wait. That's it.
Is it just a deal that the Pearl Jam fan cannot comprehend or what?

backseatLover12

Cosmo wrote:

backseatLover12 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

The oddest thing i have found in this entire discussion is this...
it seems like the concept of General Admission is something new. It's not. There have been general admission shows since the beginning of concerts. There is nothing new about it.
Could a sticking point be... many Pearl Jam fans have never been to a General Admission show?

I've been saying this since the very first thread on "what to do to prepare for GA". It's as if all these people haven't even been to a concert.... at all! The most basic concert is GA, so where have these people been living, under a rock? Never been to a concert? Never been to a concert in a bar??? It's the basics that these people haven't a clue that drives me crazy.

...
Thanx... I was thinking I was alone in this.
People have been going to General Admission concerts for decades. There have been, literally, hundreds of thousands of General Admission concerts. The vast majority of them do not have lists and lotteries and bed checks and seniority and Marks of the Beasts and Line Nazis and Pre-Party line crashers and all of that shit.
It's a pretty fucking simple concept, folks... get in line... wait. That's it.
Is it just a deal that the Pearl Jam fan cannot comprehend or what?

Maybe it's a new wave of fans that are either too young or inexperienced to have attended a decent show in their lives, or it's a wave of people that have no interest in music other than PJ. I don't get it. I just. don't. get it. Go out and see a decent concert people! And then figure it out how a G.A. show works! It's called LIVING by the way...

Oh, and if this is going to become the stereotype of a PJ fan not to know how to deal with GA, then count me out of that group. I'm happy to be older and to have seen great bands in GA!! I know that I didn't walk around asking questions in the '90s, no one did.

demetrios

Cosmo wrote:

The oddest thing i have found in this entire discussion is this...
it seems like the concept of General Admission is something new. It's not. There have been general admission shows since the beginning of concerts. There is nothing new about it.
Could a sticking point be... many Pearl Jam fans have never been to a General Admission show?

GA is cool. But how it is run, especially in the Pearl Jam camp is totally wrong. I've seen many GA show's here in Halifax since Junior High. Maybe it's a Canadian thing but when we line up outside the arena to go indoors, we don't write our names in a book or get our hands numbered. We don't leave our spot for hours to come back expecting to get our original spot in line. That's not how it works here. I haven't been to many non Pearl Jam show's in the USA, but if that's how GA is done there, wow! Just wow!!

For those that want to be up front, you need to be dedicated at heart to be the first in line & wait it out. For hours & hours. And that, you desire your spot up there. What I'm shocked & totally confused is how on the day of the show I'm seeing those folks who get the rail that night are at the pre parties. Hanging out @ the hotel, sitting at Starbucks with their buds or that one in Vancouver where he had to go back to work for a few hours. I'm sorry but that's fucked up! Fucked up indeed!! I am shocked that Pearl Jam & 10club are allowing this. Really. I'm totally shocked.

This is what ruins GA. Well the experience of GA. Pearl Jam Co isn't taken care of it. Is it wrong to hire security outside to monitor the GA line? I'm sure it isn't.

Bottom line is this. I'm ok with Pearl Jam doing GA show's. I really am. Cause with my 10club # , my reserved seat tickets here in the USA / CDN get me sweet up close seats to the stage which is awesome so I can enjoy the show much MUCH more!! Just, take care of the GA folks & put some security for those waiting in line outside. Stop this list & marking bullshit. See what happened in Spokane? You don't want that to happen again ...

Yefa

Here is my post about my GA experiences in Worcester and Seattle. I chose to go to the preparty in Worcester and line up in Seattle. While I had very different experiences in the two cities, they were both excellent.
I have been to tons of GA shows. With the exception of a select few artists (Drive-By Truckers, Neil Young, My Morning Jacket once, Widespread Panic once), I don't try to get the rail. As I note below, this was my first time on the rail for Pearl Jam.

I had GA for Worcester 2 and Seattle on this tour. I didn't try for the rail in Worcester. I was 10 people from the rail in front of Jeff & had a great time. My friend (who lives in the Seattle area) and I decided to line up early to get close for Seattle. I was a bit concerned about "the list" because of the stories I had read here about people getting great list numbers then enjoying the city and coming back an hour before doors to their old spot in line. I can say that didn't happen in Seattle. There were line checks at specific times (which were announced to all who were there) so all would know when the next one was. If you missed 1 line check you no longer had a number & had to get a new (worse) one if you so chose to get a number again. Here is when the line checks were held: 6am, 9am, 11:30am, 2pm, 4pm, 5pm. As you can see, it would be impossible to go enjoy the tourist sites of Seattle & make it back for the next line check. People were looking out for each other. Donuts and (lots of) coffee were bought for sharing with other fans. I met awesome fans from (among other places) Brazil, Italy, Australia, Canada, Rhode Island, Denver, Ohio, and NYC. I caught up with friends from Chicago I had met on the 1st leg. When it was time to go inside the Key we were walked in. I had the rail between an Italian man and a Brazilian woman. This was my 58th PJ show and my first time on the rail. It was a memorable experience not only for the show (which I loved) but also for the people I shared it with. If GA can be run this way for future USA/Canada shows, then I think it can not only continue but flourish.

josevolution

I'm sure the next US tour the scenario of GA will be alot smoother ...

JWPearl

You think so ? Yeah i agree

JWPearl

Pity some of us wont get to witness it with our eyes...

josevolution

yeah people won't put up with the list&notebook crap , so here's a message for the list people forgetaboutit ....

JWPearl

josevolution wrote:

yeah people won't put up with the list&notebook crap , so here's a message for the list people forgetaboutit ....

:idea: without...

JWPearl

josevolution wrote:

yeah people won't put up with the list&notebook crap , so here's a message for the list people forgetaboutit ....

Funny thing is , without a list you get all sorts of strange stupid people attaching themselves to you in the queue thinking they are going to get through, thats not the way it works, everyone can see individuals in right place it's obvious

Yefa

josevolution wrote:

I'm sure the next US tour the scenario of GA will be alot smoother ...

As I note in my post above, it was perfectly smooth in Seattle. If other cities can have GA run like that then there will be no problems whatsoever.

belfast1

I remember going to see Bob Dylan in London a few years ago and when I arrived I thought hey its 'General admission' so lets see if I can squeeze up a bit closer for a closer look at the old man and no-one would move an inch for me. Not an inch. And they were so fuckin grumpy with it too. I mean what if I was at the bar or had gone out for a piss?

At every other concert for any other band there's always a bit of give and take when it comes to the movement of the crowd - there has to be right? otherwise how can anyone enjoy it? If you get all uppity and mean in your head? How can you smell the flowers when inside your head you are counting little lumps of black coal?

All these old geezers standing around and you could just tell they'd been to every show on the tour and that their 'position' was SO important to them.

You'd see them phoning people right after the gig had ended to record the setlist and such like!

In their spare time I could just imagine them down at clapham junction recording serial numbers of passing trains into little black books


I wonder if some Pearl Jam fans becoming like grumpy Dylanologists?