and what about sport fishing ? or drag net fishing ? anybody had fish n chips lately ? in my "OPINION" most of contribute to the death of some animal at one time or another just because this gal killed a male lion dosen't make her any worse than the guy who raises cattle for butcher or chickens to lay eggs and butcher when they stop laying. I think most of you are angry because this animal is so beautiful but in some countries they are a danger to the communities killing children and adults, but anyway it something to think about before we get on our high horse and start calling people names.
well....we all have our faults are we the judge of who's faults are worse than others ?
just saying, and who gave the permit and how much $$$ is made each season/year to hunt exotic animals .
the government of these countries that sell permits are as much to blame as anybody and maybe more so infact.
Godfather.
the governments allowing this stuff are some sorry ass outfits to my notion. anyone making a dollar off these kinds of hunts is a fucked up human being.
drag net fishing & some of the other forms of sea fishing like bottom net dragging or whatever it is called are pathetic ways of catching fish. dragging nets across the ocean floor destroys that area's ecosystem as they are fragile, millions of years in the making & very important to the creatures of the deep.
i took marine fisheries classes when i was studying salmon & trout fisheries classes. one day i will dig back through my boxes & sacks of work & enjoy the environmental science topics i studied
raising cattle & chickens (for example... in beautiful rural iowa) on a wonderful wide open fresh air farm w/ ponds, pastures, barns, alfalfa & corn & soybean fields is not at all near murdering a lion on safari .... please explain this one to me
and what about sport fishing ? or drag net fishing ? anybody had fish n chips lately ? in my "OPINION" most of contribute to the death of some animal at one time or another just because this gal killed a male lion dosen't make her any worse than the guy who raises cattle for butcher or chickens to lay eggs and butcher when they stop laying. I think most of you are angry because this animal is so beautiful but in some countries they are a danger to the communities killing children and adults, but anyway it something to think about before we get on our high horse and start calling people names.
well....we all have our faults are we the judge of who's faults are worse than others ?
just saying, and who gave the permit and how much $$$ is made each season/year to hunt exotic animals .
the government of these countries that sell permits are as much to blame as anybody and maybe more so infact.
Godfather.
the governments allowing this stuff are some sorry ass outfits to my notion. anyone making a dollar off these kinds of hunts is a fucked up human being.
drag net fishing & some of the other forms of sea fishing like bottom net dragging or whatever it is called are pathetic ways of catching fish. dragging nets across the ocean floor destroys that area's ecosystem as they are fragile, millions of years in the making & very important to the creatures of the deep.
i took marine fisheries classes when i was studying salmon & trout fisheries classes. one day i will dig back through my boxes & sacks of work & enjoy the environmental science topics i studied
raising cattle & chickens (for example... in beautiful rural iowa) on a wonderful wide open fresh air farm w/ ponds, pastures, barns, alfalfa & corn & soybean fields is not at all near murdering a lion on safari .... please explain this one to me
what's the differance between a cow and a lion ? dead is dead in anybodys book,you could argue that cows raised for slaughter are not as someone said a majistic animal that lives free on the african planes...but try and tell a cow that
btw I think it's very cool that you studied marine fisheries and I agree about the drag nets destorying the ocean eco system not to mention the mass extiction of some species of fish.
cows in the eyes of hindus are gods. you've saw the pictures & video of cattle walking the streets of there in india. these cows are fantastic & left alone. cows have been feeding humans & lions for countless centuries. when i say cows been feeding humans & lions i'm taking about cape buffalo, water buffalo & bison & whatnot.
when a person many yards away uses a high power rifle & squeezes that trigger on a lion or a rhinoceros or a cape buffalo this person is not going to consume the meat of the lion or the rhino, they may in fact grub on 'black death'... aka... cape buffalo. the trigger is squeezed for shits & giggles. the head & or body is then on its way to the taxidermist. this is one miserable bastard
sometimes i wish i had done better & started earlier in my years when it comes to my schooling/studies. i have the passion for it but my head just isn't built for meticulous bullshit like what is needed in a college setting.
i also dislike the forestry industry... logging makes me wanna crap in someone else's britches, preferably a chainsaw fucker's. in forestry class i was the guy the logger would dislike. save the frogs & salamanders & the marine birds that live in old growth trees up to a hundred miles or more from the coast. yep that's right, a webbed footed marine bird lives high in old ass trees. i'll find the name...
marbled murrelet
"The endangered Marbled Murrelet is a bird of two worlds. Martin Raphael, a biologist with the Pacific Northwest Research Station, explains: "It lives in the marine world. But then it nests on the limbs of large, old trees. Its fate is tied not only to the fate of the trees, but also on marine conditions that support adequate prey. A bird that was nesting on the Olympic Peninsula was flying 60 miles up to the San Juan Islands - twice a day - to forage, and then fly back and feed the fish to the chick on the nest." - birdnote.org
sorry for getting off point... marbled murrelets aren't lions. but both the lions & the marbled murrelets future sways in the balance because of one thing... people
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
both cases involved a male killing a female. breeding time.
I was thinking that people who are caged exhibit the same behavior. I wonder if the problem is that these zoos do not properly provide enough natural habitat where these lions are kept?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
both cases involved a male killing a female. breeding time.
I was thinking that people who are caged exhibit the same behavior. I wonder if the problem is that these zoos do not properly provide enough natural habitat where these lions are kept?
I think you hit it pretty much dead on Brian. Animals aren't supposed to be caged, especially a big cat. Or anything wild. Fucken bullshit. And this twat shoots and kills like no biggie. Looks like she's even wearing the same shirt, I wonder if she shot those animals in the same trip. Zebra and lion, wow. Just unreal.
and what about sport fishing ? or drag net fishing ? anybody had fish n chips lately ? in my "OPINION" most of contribute to the death of some animal at one time or another just because this gal killed a male lion dosen't make her any worse than the guy who raises cattle for butcher or chickens to lay eggs and butcher when they stop laying. I think most of you are angry because this animal is so beautiful but in some countries they are a danger to the communities killing children and adults, but anyway it something to think about before we get on our high horse and start calling people names.
Godfather.
I think sport fishing is weird. I tell my friends that all the time. One of my best friends is a sport hunter, and lets his 9 year old son shoot guns to kill chickens and posts pics of it on facebook.
but as to you other examples, no one is eating this lion. she killed it for ego and nothing else. I'd think the same if someone killed a cow for the same reason. that's the difference.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and what about sport fishing ? or drag net fishing ? anybody had fish n chips lately ? in my "OPINION" most of contribute to the death of some animal at one time or another just because this gal killed a male lion dosen't make her any worse than the guy who raises cattle for butcher or chickens to lay eggs and butcher when they stop laying. I think most of you are angry because this animal is so beautiful but in some countries they are a danger to the communities killing children and adults, but anyway it something to think about before we get on our high horse and start calling people names.
Godfather.
I think sport fishing is weird. I tell my friends that all the time. One of my best friends is a sport hunter, and lets his 9 year old son shoot guns to kill chickens and posts pics of it on facebook.
but as to you other examples, no one is eating this lion. she killed it for ego and nothing else. I'd think the same if someone killed a cow for the same reason. that's the difference.
and still dead is dead, but kill and grill is o.k with you ? I would like to give you the web site address to Ted Nugent's hunting experiance....if you would like it.
and still dead is dead, but kill and grill is o.k with you ? I would like to give you the web site address to Ted Nugent's hunting experiance....if you would like it.
Godfather.
hunting for the purposes of eating is ok with me, yes. hunting for sport is disgusting to me. are you a vegetarian?
to me it has nothing to do with what the animal looks like, if it's "majestic" or not. If my buddy goes out and shoots a deer, if he eats it, then fine. But if he's just going to decapitate it and leave the body to rot so he can put it on his wall, then yes, that's a problem.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Her excitement when she kills an animal is orgasmic.
Her name's Melissa Bachman. She kills wild animals on American TV for a living. Sometimes with a rifle, sometimes with bow and arrow.
According to her website, Winchester Deadly Passion, Melissa has a "genuine and fun loving personality ... She's having fun doing what she loves and it shows. You'll leave each show feeling entertained and informed ... This is one girl with a Deadly Passion."
Until recently Bachman killed bear, alligator, deer, elk, wild turkey and wild hogs for her show. And nobody seemed to mind very much.
Eventually she went to South Africa and killed a zebra and a few antelope. Still nobody seemed to mind very much.
Then she killed a full-maned male lion, and posted a picture of herself, cradling her rifle, laughing triumphantly, while the once-magnificent lion sprawled dead at her feet.
And all hell broke loose.
Now, there's no shortage of African lions in the world. In fact they breed faster than most wildlife reserves and game parks can manage them. So fast that some reserves cull prides to prevent lions eating every animal in sight.
And there's nothing illegal about hunting lions. South Africa takes in millions of dollars a year from hunters who buy licenses to kill the big five for their trophy rooms -- lion, leopard, elephant, buffalo and rhino.
Yet more than 245,000 South Africans recently signed a petition to their government deploring Bachman and her killing ways:
"She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on. Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As tax payers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."
Apart from the woman's inane, bloodthirsty smile, it's hard to understand why there's all the fuss about this lion killing.
Let me explain.
Five years ago I was executive producer, writer and narrator for Inside Noah's Ark, a three-hour wildlife series shot in South Africa for the Discovery Channel. It also aired on Animal Planet, PBS and 15 international networks. Today it's on Amazon.
The focus of Inside Noah's Ark is that wildlife reserves are no longer truly wild but have to be managed like giant ranches -- huge zoos -- if they and the animals they shelter are to survive for our children.
So there I am in northern South Africa's bush veldt one hot summer day driving a Land Rover along a rutted dirt track through one of South Africa's largest and most popular national (government) game reserves. The cameraman and I are looking for a pride of lions which, we're told by radio, has just killed a giraffe.
As we drive out of a thicket of acacia trees a helicopter swoops low overhead and lands on the track in front of us. Five men climb out, four of them dressed in game ranger uniforms, the fifth man in an elaborate civilian camouflage outfit. Three of the men, including the civilian, carry rifles.
Turns out that the civilian is a rich American who's paid something like $20,000 to hunt and kill a lion in this national park.
This is how it all works -- lion prides are made up entirely of females (grandmothers, mothers, aunts, sisters etc.) with cubs of various ages. The females stay together for life.
Males come and go.
They come when they can force out the resident male, often seriously wounding or killing him.
They go when, in turn, a younger, tougher male defeats them in battle and takes over the pride. When that happens, the beaten male, formerly lord of up to 20 females, slinks off to live alone in the bush for the rest of his life.
Never again will he breed. Never again will he benefit from the pride's highly efficient food-killing machine. His destiny now is to slowly starve until the hyenas and wild dogs eat him.
Many conservationists are practical, unsentimental people. They believe that if they can sell hunting rights to the old male he'll be put out of his misery before the hyenas and wild dogs get him.
Meantime, the money the hunter pays will go to improve the remainder of the reserve.
Which is what happens in the reserve we're filming.
The helicopter has located an old, full-maned male soon after he's driven out of his pride by a younger male. He's still in good shape, but faces a bleak future.
The American hunter has paid his money and been dropped within a mile of the lion. Now he and one ranger leave us and disappear into the bush. The ranger is there as protection in case something goes wrong.
The old lion's end will be quick and painless.
The hunter will have a magnificent, full-maned lion head to mount in his trophy room.
And the reserve will have an extra $20,000 to help look after its animals, many of them rare and endangered.
So here's the question -- would you sign the petition to the South African government deploring the TV hunter's lion kill and demanding she never be allowed back in the country?
Or would you accept the fact that nature, like this wildlife reserve, is practical and unsentimental.
That it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice some animals for the good of the others?
Her excitement when she kills an animal is orgasmic.
Her name's Melissa Bachman. She kills wild animals on American TV for a living. Sometimes with a rifle, sometimes with bow and arrow.
According to her website, Winchester Deadly Passion, Melissa has a "genuine and fun loving personality ... She's having fun doing what she loves and it shows. You'll leave each show feeling entertained and informed ... This is one girl with a Deadly Passion."
Until recently Bachman killed bear, alligator, deer, elk, wild turkey and wild hogs for her show. And nobody seemed to mind very much.
Eventually she went to South Africa and killed a zebra and a few antelope. Still nobody seemed to mind very much.
Then she killed a full-maned male lion, and posted a picture of herself, cradling her rifle, laughing triumphantly, while the once-magnificent lion sprawled dead at her feet.
And all hell broke loose.
Now, there's no shortage of African lions in the world. In fact they breed faster than most wildlife reserves and game parks can manage them. So fast that some reserves cull prides to prevent lions eating every animal in sight.
And there's nothing illegal about hunting lions. South Africa takes in millions of dollars a year from hunters who buy licenses to kill the big five for their trophy rooms -- lion, leopard, elephant, buffalo and rhino.
Yet more than 245,000 South Africans recently signed a petition to their government deploring Bachman and her killing ways:
"She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on. Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As tax payers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."
Apart from the woman's inane, bloodthirsty smile, it's hard to understand why there's all the fuss about this lion killing.
Let me explain.
Five years ago I was executive producer, writer and narrator for Inside Noah's Ark, a three-hour wildlife series shot in South Africa for the Discovery Channel. It also aired on Animal Planet, PBS and 15 international networks. Today it's on Amazon.
The focus of Inside Noah's Ark is that wildlife reserves are no longer truly wild but have to be managed like giant ranches -- huge zoos -- if they and the animals they shelter are to survive for our children.
So there I am in northern South Africa's bush veldt one hot summer day driving a Land Rover along a rutted dirt track through one of South Africa's largest and most popular national (government) game reserves. The cameraman and I are looking for a pride of lions which, we're told by radio, has just killed a giraffe.
As we drive out of a thicket of acacia trees a helicopter swoops low overhead and lands on the track in front of us. Five men climb out, four of them dressed in game ranger uniforms, the fifth man in an elaborate civilian camouflage outfit. Three of the men, including the civilian, carry rifles.
Turns out that the civilian is a rich American who's paid something like $20,000 to hunt and kill a lion in this national park.
This is how it all works -- lion prides are made up entirely of females (grandmothers, mothers, aunts, sisters etc.) with cubs of various ages. The females stay together for life.
Males come and go.
They come when they can force out the resident male, often seriously wounding or killing him.
They go when, in turn, a younger, tougher male defeats them in battle and takes over the pride. When that happens, the beaten male, formerly lord of up to 20 females, slinks off to live alone in the bush for the rest of his life.
Never again will he breed. Never again will he benefit from the pride's highly efficient food-killing machine. His destiny now is to slowly starve until the hyenas and wild dogs eat him.
Many conservationists are practical, unsentimental people. They believe that if they can sell hunting rights to the old male he'll be put out of his misery before the hyenas and wild dogs get him.
Meantime, the money the hunter pays will go to improve the remainder of the reserve.
Which is what happens in the reserve we're filming.
The helicopter has located an old, full-maned male soon after he's driven out of his pride by a younger male. He's still in good shape, but faces a bleak future.
The American hunter has paid his money and been dropped within a mile of the lion. Now he and one ranger leave us and disappear into the bush. The ranger is there as protection in case something goes wrong.
The old lion's end will be quick and painless.
The hunter will have a magnificent, full-maned lion head to mount in his trophy room.
And the reserve will have an extra $20,000 to help look after its animals, many of them rare and endangered.
So here's the question -- would you sign the petition to the South African government deploring the TV hunter's lion kill and demanding she never be allowed back in the country?
Or would you accept the fact that nature, like this wildlife reserve, is practical and unsentimental.
That it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice some animals for the good of the others?
What would you do?
I myself it's the more mounting and picture taking with your downed animal. I have no problem hunting to put food on ones table ... But why do you want a dead animals head hanging on your wall? Or why do you need a picture with it?
Most people who pay big bucks to hunt in Africa aren't putting food on their table ... And I doubt they know where the meat is going, they are trophy hunting for their ego, and some of these hunts run into the thousands of dollars add the cost of the mount ... Ridiculous.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Her excitement when she kills an animal is orgasmic.
Her name's Melissa Bachman. She kills wild animals on American TV for a living. Sometimes with a rifle, sometimes with bow and arrow.
According to her website, Winchester Deadly Passion, Melissa has a "genuine and fun loving personality ... She's having fun doing what she loves and it shows. You'll leave each show feeling entertained and informed ... This is one girl with a Deadly Passion."
Until recently Bachman killed bear, alligator, deer, elk, wild turkey and wild hogs for her show. And nobody seemed to mind very much.
Eventually she went to South Africa and killed a zebra and a few antelope. Still nobody seemed to mind very much.
Then she killed a full-maned male lion, and posted a picture of herself, cradling her rifle, laughing triumphantly, while the once-magnificent lion sprawled dead at her feet.
And all hell broke loose.
Now, there's no shortage of African lions in the world. In fact they breed faster than most wildlife reserves and game parks can manage them. So fast that some reserves cull prides to prevent lions eating every animal in sight.
And there's nothing illegal about hunting lions. South Africa takes in millions of dollars a year from hunters who buy licenses to kill the big five for their trophy rooms -- lion, leopard, elephant, buffalo and rhino.
Yet more than 245,000 South Africans recently signed a petition to their government deploring Bachman and her killing ways:
"She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on. Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As tax payers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."
Apart from the woman's inane, bloodthirsty smile, it's hard to understand why there's all the fuss about this lion killing.
Let me explain.
Five years ago I was executive producer, writer and narrator for Inside Noah's Ark, a three-hour wildlife series shot in South Africa for the Discovery Channel. It also aired on Animal Planet, PBS and 15 international networks. Today it's on Amazon.
The focus of Inside Noah's Ark is that wildlife reserves are no longer truly wild but have to be managed like giant ranches -- huge zoos -- if they and the animals they shelter are to survive for our children.
So there I am in northern South Africa's bush veldt one hot summer day driving a Land Rover along a rutted dirt track through one of South Africa's largest and most popular national (government) game reserves. The cameraman and I are looking for a pride of lions which, we're told by radio, has just killed a giraffe.
As we drive out of a thicket of acacia trees a helicopter swoops low overhead and lands on the track in front of us. Five men climb out, four of them dressed in game ranger uniforms, the fifth man in an elaborate civilian camouflage outfit. Three of the men, including the civilian, carry rifles.
Turns out that the civilian is a rich American who's paid something like $20,000 to hunt and kill a lion in this national park.
This is how it all works -- lion prides are made up entirely of females (grandmothers, mothers, aunts, sisters etc.) with cubs of various ages. The females stay together for life.
Males come and go.
They come when they can force out the resident male, often seriously wounding or killing him.
They go when, in turn, a younger, tougher male defeats them in battle and takes over the pride. When that happens, the beaten male, formerly lord of up to 20 females, slinks off to live alone in the bush for the rest of his life.
Never again will he breed. Never again will he benefit from the pride's highly efficient food-killing machine. His destiny now is to slowly starve until the hyenas and wild dogs eat him.
Many conservationists are practical, unsentimental people. They believe that if they can sell hunting rights to the old male he'll be put out of his misery before the hyenas and wild dogs get him.
Meantime, the money the hunter pays will go to improve the remainder of the reserve.
Which is what happens in the reserve we're filming.
The helicopter has located an old, full-maned male soon after he's driven out of his pride by a younger male. He's still in good shape, but faces a bleak future.
The American hunter has paid his money and been dropped within a mile of the lion. Now he and one ranger leave us and disappear into the bush. The ranger is there as protection in case something goes wrong.
The old lion's end will be quick and painless.
The hunter will have a magnificent, full-maned lion head to mount in his trophy room.
And the reserve will have an extra $20,000 to help look after its animals, many of them rare and endangered.
So here's the question -- would you sign the petition to the South African government deploring the TV hunter's lion kill and demanding she never be allowed back in the country?
Or would you accept the fact that nature, like this wildlife reserve, is practical and unsentimental.
That it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice some animals for the good of the others?
What would you do?
I myself it's the more mounting and picture taking with your downed animal. I have no problem hunting to put food on ones table ... But why do you want a dead animals head hanging on your wall? Or why do you need a picture with it?
Most people who pay big bucks to hunt in Africa aren't putting food on their table ... And I doubt they know where the meat is going, they are trophy hunting for their ego, and some of these hunts run into the thousands of dollars add the cost of the mount ... Ridiculous.
I don't get it either. I have never been on a hunt for anything and probably never will.
But these ego driven hunters are providing a necessary service for the conservation of these animals. I have a hard time reading some of these bleeding heart posts when they apparently have no idea how the real world (warts and all) works.
As to your point about them not knowing what happens with the meat, I'm only going to guess that if they travel all the way to South Africa and spend the big money to kill one of these lions.....they know exactly where the meat is going. I know I would like to know.
I don't get it either. I have never been on a hunt for anything and probably never will.
But these ego driven hunters are providing a necessary service for the conservation of these animals. I have a hard time reading some of these bleeding heart posts when they apparently have no idea how the real world (warts and all) works.
As to your point about them not knowing what happens with the meat, I'm only going to guess that if they travel all the way to South Africa and spend the big money to kill one of these lions.....they know exactly where the meat is going. I know I would like to know.
I get nature. I think most here do.
It's harsh, and unfair.
This doesn't strike me as nature.
And if being disgusted by someone gloating next to the corpse of a beautiful animal makes me a bleeding heart, so be it.
(and I could be mistaken, but one of the initial articles I read on this mentioned how the lions are not native to this particular environment and were brought in specifically for these types of "hunts")
And a sidenote - you yourself guess about where the meat goes. If you don't know, how can you wave your fingers at the "little bit much outrage"?
I don't get it either. I have never been on a hunt for anything and probably never will.
But these ego driven hunters are providing a necessary service for the conservation of these animals. I have a hard time reading some of these bleeding heart posts when they apparently have no idea how the real world (warts and all) works.
As to your point about them not knowing what happens with the meat, I'm only going to guess that if they travel all the way to South Africa and spend the big money to kill one of these lions.....they know exactly where the meat is going. I know I would like to know.
I get nature. I think most here do.
It's harsh, and unfair.
This doesn't strike me as nature.
And if being disgusted by someone gloating next to the corpse of a beautiful animal makes me a bleeding heart, so be it.
(and I could be mistaken, but one of the initial articles I read on this mentioned how the lions are not native to this particular environment and were brought in specifically for these types of "hunts")
And a sidenote - you yourself guess about where the meat goes. If you don't know, how can you wave your fingers at the "little bit much outrage"?
Wagging my finger.
You have an opinion which is fine, but maybe you should seek out some of the facts.
"Maroi also added that meat from the animals its members hunt goes to a local community, while the funds hunting generates are used to help fix a border fence, combat poaching and run a "sustainable conservancy." "
This is what nature is today....not the Disney version. If you are so outraged donate money to some of these conservation efforts, and stop eating meat. If you have already done these things then you have every right to complain because you are making an effort.
The African lion is considered "vulnerable" -- one step above "endangered," though that classification is the matter of some debate.
According to Dr. Luke Hunter, the executive vice president of large cat conservation group Panthera, killing a prime male lion such as this one "disrupts the species’ complicated social structure. Prime male lions -- the most sought after trophies -- guard their females from pride takeovers by strange males. Takeovers are catastrophic to lionesses because victorious incoming males kill any cubs belonging to the previous pride males."
That means the death of a prime male, such as the one killed by Bachman, can lead to the death of an entire generation of cubs within a pride. With proper regulation, however, Hunter argues the practice of big game hunting, which costs hunters up to $125,000, can indeed help fund conservation efforts. (this proviso makes no sense to me)
"The entire process that allows hunting big cats in Africa needs a complete overhaul to purge its widespread excesses and enforce far stricter limits on which lions can be hunted and how many," writes Hunter. "That would force hunters to produce the conservation benefits of which they constantly boast but only rarely produce."
No apologies for finding this, aside from the photo, utterly revolting: "An incredible day hunting in South Africa! Stalked inside 60-yards on this beautiful male lion...what a hunt!"
The African lion is considered "vulnerable" -- one step above "endangered," though that classification is the matter of some debate.
According to Dr. Luke Hunter, the executive vice president of large cat conservation group Panthera, killing a prime male lion such as this one "disrupts the species’ complicated social structure. Prime male lions -- the most sought after trophies -- guard their females from pride takeovers by strange males. Takeovers are catastrophic to lionesses because victorious incoming males kill any cubs belonging to the previous pride males."
That means the death of a prime male, such as the one killed by Bachman, can lead to the death of an entire generation of cubs within a pride. With proper regulation, however, Hunter argues the practice of big game hunting, which costs hunters up to $125,000, can indeed help fund conservation efforts. (this proviso makes no sense to me)
"The entire process that allows hunting big cats in Africa needs a complete overhaul to purge its widespread excesses and enforce far stricter limits on which lions can be hunted and how many," writes Hunter. "That would force hunters to produce the conservation benefits of which they constantly boast but only rarely produce."
No apologies for finding this, aside from the photo, utterly revolting: "An incredible day hunting in South Africa! Stalked inside 60-yards on this beautiful male lion...what a hunt!"
really!? ... melissa bachman is now the face of conservation? ... and we shouldn't comment if we eat meat!? ... :fp:
if conservation was the motivation of melissa bachman - she should just give the money ... this "hunt" is strictly an ego and "man" conquering nature venture ... it is made wrong because the species is threatened and to kill a male of the species which is inherently vital in the survival of the species is further makes conservation a joke ... it perpetuates the belief that if you have money - you can do whatever the fuck you want ...
<start rant>the most irritating trend in any forum of debate is when someone tries to point out hypocrisies in someone or something else to justify the existence of something ...
it's like i could be the ceo of an oil company and drive a hummer every day and it still doesn't change the fact that when i say global warming is a problem - it is! ... it's like people can't actually discuss the topic at hand and need to then justify their beliefs using this faulty tactic ... <end rant>
as far as the meat not going to waste ... they fucking use the dolphin meat in school lunches in japan ... still doesn't make the slaughter there anymore right or humane ...
as humans - we must learn to live in balance with nature ... sure, there is a lot of subjectivity with all this ... but i'm pretty sure trophy hunting lions is not gonna fall under balance with nature ...
Yes to both your questions, though I don't donate to that particular organization.
Thank you for the honest answers. You seem like one of the more reasonable posters here (i.e. you are not calling for her death) and I appreciate your opinion.
With the absence of a better plan, it sounds like these hunters are the best option right now to help save these animals from poachers. I'm not going to try and further explain this as it was laid out quite well in the initial article that I posted.
I am frustrated by the knee jerk reactions and feigned internet outrage that I see everywhere when these people have none of the facts. It's an easy target filled with emotion and none of the logical common sense.
I may not like this woman, but calling for her head is ridiculous. There was a second side to this story that everyone is ignoring, that I thought I should bring it up.
as far as the meat not going to waste ... they fucking use the dolphin meat in school lunches in japan ... still doesn't make the slaughter there anymore right or humane ...
as humans - we must learn to live in balance with nature ... sure, there is a lot of subjectivity with all this ... but i'm pretty sure trophy hunting lions is not gonna fall under balance with nature ...
haha ... are you vulcan!? ... show me your logic ...
do you support the dolphin slaughter in taiji!??
edit: all you've done is post a propaganda piece from the organization that profits from these hunts ...
you do know african lions are threatened and that studies are showing they can be extinct within 20-40 years!?
And you have posted nothing but your opinion.
edit: and how was Tim Knights piece a propaganda piece? Because you don't agree with him? Give your head a shake polaris, you are way out of line on this one
Yes to both your questions, though I don't donate to that particular organization.
Thank you for the honest answers. You seem like one of the more reasonable posters here (i.e. you are not calling for her death) and I appreciate your opinion.
With the absence of a better plan, it sounds like these hunters are the best option right now to help save these animals from poachers. I'm not going to try and further explain this as it was laid out quite well in the initial article that I posted.
I am frustrated by the knee jerk reactions and feigned internet outrage that I see everywhere when these people have none of the facts. It's an easy target filled with emotion and none of the logical common sense.
I may not like this woman, but calling for her head is ridiculous. There was a second side to this story that everyone is ignoring, that I thought I should bring it up.
Thanks, dignin. I admire your cooler-heads-prevailing attitude - obviously this difficult for me, as viewing the facts without emotion is a tough one from here. The image of the dead lion with her behind him, and such joy in her face and words - I can't NOT react.
I mean, whether by poachers or so-called hunters, in the end they're just...gone.
edit: and how was Tim Knights piece a propaganda piece? Because you don't agree with him? Give your head a shake polaris, you are way out of line on this one
dude ... first of all - stop presuming you are the know all on this subject ... because clearly you aren't ... you posted an opinion piece by some journalist who offers at the end an open-ended question ... secondly, you also posted a piece that basically takes into consideration only the viewpoints of this conservancy who's primary function is to make money ... sure ... monsanto loves to talk about feeding the world but we both know what their end game is really ...
i find your debate method piss poor also ... you first rely on the viewpoints of the organization that profits from this hunt (on both articles as tim knight's article also is based on information from the conservancy) ... and then you ask if people eat meat and that their viewpoints are somewhat less meaningful if they do ... then you comment on the dolphin slaughter - calling it emotional but don't actually have any foundation to counter it ... then you want me to give MY head a shake and call me out of line ... horrible ...
Comments
the governments allowing this stuff are some sorry ass outfits to my notion. anyone making a dollar off these kinds of hunts is a fucked up human being.
drag net fishing & some of the other forms of sea fishing like bottom net dragging or whatever it is called are pathetic ways of catching fish. dragging nets across the ocean floor destroys that area's ecosystem as they are fragile, millions of years in the making & very important to the creatures of the deep.
i took marine fisheries classes when i was studying salmon & trout fisheries classes. one day i will dig back through my boxes & sacks of work & enjoy the environmental science topics i studied
raising cattle & chickens (for example... in beautiful rural iowa) on a wonderful wide open fresh air farm w/ ponds, pastures, barns, alfalfa & corn & soybean fields is not at all near murdering a lion on safari .... please explain this one to me
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
what's the differance between a cow and a lion ? dead is dead in anybodys book,you could argue that cows raised for slaughter are not as someone said a majistic animal that lives free on the african planes...but try and tell a cow that
btw I think it's very cool that you studied marine fisheries and I agree about the drag nets destorying the ocean eco system not to mention the mass extiction of some species of fish.
Godfather.
when a person many yards away uses a high power rifle & squeezes that trigger on a lion or a rhinoceros or a cape buffalo this person is not going to consume the meat of the lion or the rhino, they may in fact grub on 'black death'... aka... cape buffalo. the trigger is squeezed for shits & giggles. the head & or body is then on its way to the taxidermist. this is one miserable bastard
sometimes i wish i had done better & started earlier in my years when it comes to my schooling/studies. i have the passion for it but my head just isn't built for meticulous bullshit like what is needed in a college setting.
i also dislike the forestry industry... logging makes me wanna crap in someone else's britches, preferably a chainsaw fucker's. in forestry class i was the guy the logger would dislike. save the frogs & salamanders & the marine birds that live in old growth trees up to a hundred miles or more from the coast. yep that's right, a webbed footed marine bird lives high in old ass trees. i'll find the name...
marbled murrelet
"The endangered Marbled Murrelet is a bird of two worlds. Martin Raphael, a biologist with the Pacific Northwest Research Station, explains: "It lives in the marine world. But then it nests on the limbs of large, old trees. Its fate is tied not only to the fate of the trees, but also on marine conditions that support adequate prey. A bird that was nesting on the Olympic Peninsula was flying 60 miles up to the San Juan Islands - twice a day - to forage, and then fly back and feed the fish to the chick on the nest." - birdnote.org
http://birdnote.org/show/marbled-murrel ... in-raphael
sorry for getting off point... marbled murrelets aren't lions. but both the lions & the marbled murrelets future sways in the balance because of one thing... people
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Sounds like great tats, mickey! No tats here but my head is kind of looking like a lions these days.
What zoo was this? Got a link? Sounds awful. Did they want one lion to kill the other?
first one last month in denver
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... ness-fight
second one this week in dallas
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-ne ... -fight.ece
both cases involved a male killing a female. breeding time.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I was thinking that people who are caged exhibit the same behavior. I wonder if the problem is that these zoos do not properly provide enough natural habitat where these lions are kept?
I think you hit it pretty much dead on Brian. Animals aren't supposed to be caged, especially a big cat. Or anything wild. Fucken bullshit. And this twat shoots and kills like no biggie. Looks like she's even wearing the same shirt, I wonder if she shot those animals in the same trip. Zebra and lion, wow. Just unreal.
then I guess you need to shut up about Obama.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think sport fishing is weird. I tell my friends that all the time. One of my best friends is a sport hunter, and lets his 9 year old son shoot guns to kill chickens and posts pics of it on facebook.
but as to you other examples, no one is eating this lion. she killed it for ego and nothing else. I'd think the same if someone killed a cow for the same reason. that's the difference.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
is that asshat on the big game list ? btw you just derailed this thread you might take your own advice.
Godfather.
and still dead is dead, but kill and grill is o.k with you ? I would like to give you the web site address to Ted Nugent's hunting experiance....if you would like it.
Godfather.
I didn't derail anything. you said to stop judging people. I said then you'd better stop it yourself.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
hunting for the purposes of eating is ok with me, yes. hunting for sport is disgusting to me. are you a vegetarian?
to me it has nothing to do with what the animal looks like, if it's "majestic" or not. If my buddy goes out and shoots a deer, if he eats it, then fine. But if he's just going to decapitate it and leave the body to rot so he can put it on his wall, then yes, that's a problem.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And I do believe that the meat from these lions is also used.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tim-knight ... 25339.html
Would You Hunt and Kill a Lion?
Her excitement when she kills an animal is orgasmic.
Her name's Melissa Bachman. She kills wild animals on American TV for a living. Sometimes with a rifle, sometimes with bow and arrow.
According to her website, Winchester Deadly Passion, Melissa has a "genuine and fun loving personality ... She's having fun doing what she loves and it shows. You'll leave each show feeling entertained and informed ... This is one girl with a Deadly Passion."
Until recently Bachman killed bear, alligator, deer, elk, wild turkey and wild hogs for her show. And nobody seemed to mind very much.
Eventually she went to South Africa and killed a zebra and a few antelope. Still nobody seemed to mind very much.
Then she killed a full-maned male lion, and posted a picture of herself, cradling her rifle, laughing triumphantly, while the once-magnificent lion sprawled dead at her feet.
And all hell broke loose.
Now, there's no shortage of African lions in the world. In fact they breed faster than most wildlife reserves and game parks can manage them. So fast that some reserves cull prides to prevent lions eating every animal in sight.
And there's nothing illegal about hunting lions. South Africa takes in millions of dollars a year from hunters who buy licenses to kill the big five for their trophy rooms -- lion, leopard, elephant, buffalo and rhino.
Yet more than 245,000 South Africans recently signed a petition to their government deploring Bachman and her killing ways:
"She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on. Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As tax payers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."
Apart from the woman's inane, bloodthirsty smile, it's hard to understand why there's all the fuss about this lion killing.
Let me explain.
Five years ago I was executive producer, writer and narrator for Inside Noah's Ark, a three-hour wildlife series shot in South Africa for the Discovery Channel. It also aired on Animal Planet, PBS and 15 international networks. Today it's on Amazon.
The focus of Inside Noah's Ark is that wildlife reserves are no longer truly wild but have to be managed like giant ranches -- huge zoos -- if they and the animals they shelter are to survive for our children.
So there I am in northern South Africa's bush veldt one hot summer day driving a Land Rover along a rutted dirt track through one of South Africa's largest and most popular national (government) game reserves. The cameraman and I are looking for a pride of lions which, we're told by radio, has just killed a giraffe.
As we drive out of a thicket of acacia trees a helicopter swoops low overhead and lands on the track in front of us. Five men climb out, four of them dressed in game ranger uniforms, the fifth man in an elaborate civilian camouflage outfit. Three of the men, including the civilian, carry rifles.
Turns out that the civilian is a rich American who's paid something like $20,000 to hunt and kill a lion in this national park.
This is how it all works -- lion prides are made up entirely of females (grandmothers, mothers, aunts, sisters etc.) with cubs of various ages. The females stay together for life.
Males come and go.
They come when they can force out the resident male, often seriously wounding or killing him.
They go when, in turn, a younger, tougher male defeats them in battle and takes over the pride. When that happens, the beaten male, formerly lord of up to 20 females, slinks off to live alone in the bush for the rest of his life.
Never again will he breed. Never again will he benefit from the pride's highly efficient food-killing machine. His destiny now is to slowly starve until the hyenas and wild dogs eat him.
Many conservationists are practical, unsentimental people. They believe that if they can sell hunting rights to the old male he'll be put out of his misery before the hyenas and wild dogs get him.
Meantime, the money the hunter pays will go to improve the remainder of the reserve.
Which is what happens in the reserve we're filming.
The helicopter has located an old, full-maned male soon after he's driven out of his pride by a younger male. He's still in good shape, but faces a bleak future.
The American hunter has paid his money and been dropped within a mile of the lion. Now he and one ranger leave us and disappear into the bush. The ranger is there as protection in case something goes wrong.
The old lion's end will be quick and painless.
The hunter will have a magnificent, full-maned lion head to mount in his trophy room.
And the reserve will have an extra $20,000 to help look after its animals, many of them rare and endangered.
So here's the question -- would you sign the petition to the South African government deploring the TV hunter's lion kill and demanding she never be allowed back in the country?
Or would you accept the fact that nature, like this wildlife reserve, is practical and unsentimental.
That it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice some animals for the good of the others?
What would you do?
I myself it's the more mounting and picture taking with your downed animal. I have no problem hunting to put food on ones table ... But why do you want a dead animals head hanging on your wall? Or why do you need a picture with it?
Most people who pay big bucks to hunt in Africa aren't putting food on their table ... And I doubt they know where the meat is going, they are trophy hunting for their ego, and some of these hunts run into the thousands of dollars add the cost of the mount ... Ridiculous.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't get it either. I have never been on a hunt for anything and probably never will.
But these ego driven hunters are providing a necessary service for the conservation of these animals. I have a hard time reading some of these bleeding heart posts when they apparently have no idea how the real world (warts and all) works.
As to your point about them not knowing what happens with the meat, I'm only going to guess that if they travel all the way to South Africa and spend the big money to kill one of these lions.....they know exactly where the meat is going. I know I would like to know.
It's harsh, and unfair.
This doesn't strike me as nature.
And if being disgusted by someone gloating next to the corpse of a beautiful animal makes me a bleeding heart, so be it.
(and I could be mistaken, but one of the initial articles I read on this mentioned how the lions are not native to this particular environment and were brought in specifically for these types of "hunts")
And a sidenote - you yourself guess about where the meat goes. If you don't know, how can you wave your fingers at the "little bit much outrage"?
Wagging my finger.
You have an opinion which is fine, but maybe you should seek out some of the facts.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/1 ... 97780.html
"Maroi also added that meat from the animals its members hunt goes to a local community, while the funds hunting generates are used to help fix a border fence, combat poaching and run a "sustainable conservancy." "
This is what nature is today....not the Disney version. If you are so outraged donate money to some of these conservation efforts, and stop eating meat. If you have already done these things then you have every right to complain because you are making an effort.
The African lion is considered "vulnerable" -- one step above "endangered," though that classification is the matter of some debate.
According to Dr. Luke Hunter, the executive vice president of large cat conservation group Panthera, killing a prime male lion such as this one "disrupts the species’ complicated social structure. Prime male lions -- the most sought after trophies -- guard their females from pride takeovers by strange males. Takeovers are catastrophic to lionesses because victorious incoming males kill any cubs belonging to the previous pride males."
That means the death of a prime male, such as the one killed by Bachman, can lead to the death of an entire generation of cubs within a pride. With proper regulation, however, Hunter argues the practice of big game hunting, which costs hunters up to $125,000, can indeed help fund conservation efforts. (this proviso makes no sense to me)
"The entire process that allows hunting big cats in Africa needs a complete overhaul to purge its widespread excesses and enforce far stricter limits on which lions can be hunted and how many," writes Hunter. "That would force hunters to produce the conservation benefits of which they constantly boast but only rarely produce."
No apologies for finding this, aside from the photo, utterly revolting: "An incredible day hunting in South Africa! Stalked inside 60-yards on this beautiful male lion...what a hunt!"
Yes, my opinion. And I'll stand by it.
Quick question. Do you eat meat?
if conservation was the motivation of melissa bachman - she should just give the money ... this "hunt" is strictly an ego and "man" conquering nature venture ... it is made wrong because the species is threatened and to kill a male of the species which is inherently vital in the survival of the species is further makes conservation a joke ... it perpetuates the belief that if you have money - you can do whatever the fuck you want ...
<start rant>the most irritating trend in any forum of debate is when someone tries to point out hypocrisies in someone or something else to justify the existence of something ...
it's like i could be the ceo of an oil company and drive a hummer every day and it still doesn't change the fact that when i say global warming is a problem - it is! ... it's like people can't actually discuss the topic at hand and need to then justify their beliefs using this faulty tactic ... <end rant>
as humans - we must learn to live in balance with nature ... sure, there is a lot of subjectivity with all this ... but i'm pretty sure trophy hunting lions is not gonna fall under balance with nature ...
Thank you for the honest answers. You seem like one of the more reasonable posters here (i.e. you are not calling for her death) and I appreciate your opinion.
With the absence of a better plan, it sounds like these hunters are the best option right now to help save these animals from poachers. I'm not going to try and further explain this as it was laid out quite well in the initial article that I posted.
I am frustrated by the knee jerk reactions and feigned internet outrage that I see everywhere when these people have none of the facts. It's an easy target filled with emotion and none of the logical common sense.
I may not like this woman, but calling for her head is ridiculous. There was a second side to this story that everyone is ignoring, that I thought I should bring it up.
Again, with the emotion....and none of the logic.
haha ... are you vulcan!? ... show me your logic ...
do you support the dolphin slaughter in taiji!??
edit: all you've done is post a propaganda piece from the organization that profits from these hunts ...
you do know african lions are threatened and that studies are showing they can be extinct within 20-40 years!?
And you have posted nothing but your opinion.
edit: and how was Tim Knights piece a propaganda piece? Because you don't agree with him? Give your head a shake polaris, you are way out of line on this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Knight
I mean, whether by poachers or so-called hunters, in the end they're just...gone.
dude ... first of all - stop presuming you are the know all on this subject ... because clearly you aren't ... you posted an opinion piece by some journalist who offers at the end an open-ended question ... secondly, you also posted a piece that basically takes into consideration only the viewpoints of this conservancy who's primary function is to make money ... sure ... monsanto loves to talk about feeding the world but we both know what their end game is really ...
i find your debate method piss poor also ... you first rely on the viewpoints of the organization that profits from this hunt (on both articles as tim knight's article also is based on information from the conservancy) ... and then you ask if people eat meat and that their viewpoints are somewhat less meaningful if they do ... then you comment on the dolphin slaughter - calling it emotional but don't actually have any foundation to counter it ... then you want me to give MY head a shake and call me out of line ... horrible ...
edit: you can't even answer any of my questions