Television host Melissa Bachman’s boast about lion kill ...

polaris_x

hedonist wrote:

I don't know...climbing a mountain is (aside from the sherpas, who I assume are there of their own free will) about yourself only. Strength, endurance, mental will - call it ego-stroking but at least it doesn't take anyone else out with you, if you fail.

It's not something I'd attempt, but I can understand the desire to make that climb - surpassing your own expectations. Triumphing over our own (perceived) weaknesses.

Totally different from shooting an animal for the hell of it.

Plus, I see us - humans - trying to conquer nature on a daily basis (or maybe it's trying to live within it, to understand we are part of it).

i'm talking about climbing everest specifically ... and you're wrong in assuming it doesn't take anyone with you ... the sherpas that risk their lives, the rescue people, even other climbers ... and also, what does it say about humanity - when people can easily walk past somebody who's dying just so they can reach the top of the mountain ...

it's strictly ego and it's about conquering ...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I don't know...climbing a mountain is (aside from the sherpas, who I assume are there of their own free will) about yourself only. Strength, endurance, mental will - call it ego-stroking but at least it doesn't take anyone else out with you, if you fail.

It's not something I'd attempt, but I can understand the desire to make that climb - surpassing your own expectations. Triumphing over our own (perceived) weaknesses.

Totally different from shooting an animal for the hell of it.

Plus, I see us - humans - trying to conquer nature on a daily basis (or maybe it's trying to live within it, to understand we are part of it).

i'm talking about climbing everest specifically ... and you're wrong in assuming it doesn't take anyone with you ... the sherpas that risk their lives, the rescue people, even other climbers ... and also, what does it say about humanity - when people can easily walk past somebody who's dying just so they can reach the top of the mountain ...

it's strictly ego and it's about conquering ...

Sherpas are exploited. They do the dirty work.

The mountain is exploited: climbers shit and piss all over the place and they leave their garbage because they are too weak to carry it back with them.

Climbing the high altitude mountains is ruthless: with only a narrow window to summit... climbers routinely trudge past fallen climbers to have their picture taken at the peak of the mountain.

unsung

Kind of getting off topic but Into Thin Air and also Dark Summit are two Everest must reads.

hedonist

Is it only Everest or other challenging treks, like Kilimajaro?

My point was that much we do is propelled by ego. I get the related risks, but view mountain-climbing (perhaps we should put hikers and mountain-scalers in the same ego-driven boat? plus many other activities) as vastly different than hunting an animal for the sport of it.

chadwick

climbing everest is not equal to shooting a lion

swimming cuba to florida is conquering that body of water called the strait of florida
that isn't equal to harpooning a sperm whale

unsung

brianlux wrote:

unsung wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I agree with you two out of three which for you 'n me ain't bad. I would never kill for property. Why do that?

I'd consider myself someone who is prepared for most issues, and I've spent a lot of time and money in order to be. If a natural disaster hit I would help, I believe in giving until it hurts, but people will not take because they were lazy and didn't have their families put in the best situation that they could be. I'd help as much as I could if I were asked to, but I will not give anything up by force.

I've had friends say that they will just come to my house if there were an emergency, and I've told them that they will go away with what their hands could carry. Harsh? Yep. Unfortunately I can't feed the world and I can't help those that refused to help themselves when they had the time, resources, and means to do so. This isn't Hotel Unsung.

When you said you would kill for property I assumed you meant that if you caught someone trying to steal (for example) your car you would kill them. But it seems what you are talking about is an end of the world scenario where someone is trying to take that which sustains you. So you were talking about apples and I was talking about oranges. But don't worry, I'm not going to try to steal your car to see if you really would try to kill me over it.

As for the end of the world scenario, people who band together cooperatively will be more likely to survive in the long run. I'd suggest expanding your circle of friends to people who will work with you, not just take from you. Just a thought. Those are the kind of people I keep in my circle.

I have a select few that are in that circle, but not many.

I thought about what you asked me and right now I'm dealing with work colleagues who have had their homes destroyed by the Illinois tornado. So he comes crawling out of his basement to find his house in shambles, quite possibly lucky to be alive, and I wonder what if.

What if people started looting? Do you let them take what's left of your life? Or do you stop them? The police can't be everywhere.

unsung

hedonist wrote:

Is it only Everest or other challenging treks, like Kilimajaro?

My point was that much we do is propelled by ego. I get the related risks, but view mountain-climbing (perhaps we should put hikers and mountain-scalers in the same ego-driven boat? plus many other activities) as vastly different than hunting an animal for the sport of it.

Ok, I can't tell if this is sarcasm but Kilimanjaro is nothing like Everest.

hedonist

unsung wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Is it only Everest or other challenging treks, like Kilimajaro?

My point was that much we do is propelled by ego. I get the related risks, but view mountain-climbing (perhaps we should put hikers and mountain-scalers in the same ego-driven boat? plus many other activities) as vastly different than hunting an animal for the sport of it.

Ok, I can't tell if this is sarcasm but Kilimanjaro is nothing like Everest.

No, it was an honest question. I know Everest is considered quite brutal, but my knowledge about mounts in general/as a whole is limited.

chadwick

climbing hills or mountains is not equal at all to murdering lions

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung wrote:

Kind of getting off topic but Into Thin Air and also Dark Summit are two Everest must reads.

Two great books.

Jason P

“She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on,” said Elan Burman of Cape Town, the author of the petition, which quickly gathered 3,000 signatures.

Ahhh, I think it was Elan Burman's country that took pride with issuing a permit to allow this. A petition to bar her from returning, even if successful, doesn't do Jack squat if I decided to jump on a plane tomorrow and go shoot a lion.

polaris_x

hedonist wrote:

Is it only Everest or other challenging treks, like Kilimajaro?

My point was that much we do is propelled by ego. I get the related risks, but view mountain-climbing (perhaps we should put hikers and mountain-scalers in the same ego-driven boat? plus many other activities) as vastly different than hunting an animal for the sport of it.

definitely not kiliminjaro ... i said everest specifically ... because of what i mentioned earlier ... one can challenge themselves in a plethora of ways that does not put other lives at risk, their own, the sanctity of a place considered spriritual by the people that live nearby, nor result in them walking by as others die ... don't get me started on the garbage ... factor in that one pretty much has to be relatively rich to even try ...

backseatLover12

chadwick wrote:

climbing hills or mountains is not equal at all to murdering lions

Not understanding either, how people can relate goals like reaching the summit of the tallest mountain is comparable to trophy hunting. Because they aren't. Sure, to a millionaire, both can stoke egos, but to MANY mountaineers, it's about attaining goals. To those who have physical setbacks and to have made Everest, K2 or any mountain summit a goal is clearly something else. It's about overcoming ourselves and about human spirit. To those who have climbed Everest in the name of their mother's hereditary disease that she died from already and they will eventually as well, it's about honor (this last one is about 2 guys from my home town, honoring their mother whom I had known growing up; one didn't make it to the summit and perished. :( ).

Hugh Freaking Dillon

hedonist wrote:

but my knowledge about mounts in general/as a whole is limited.

that's what she said.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

backseatLover12 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

climbing hills or mountains is not equal at all to murdering lions

Not understanding either, how people can relate goals like reaching the summit of the tallest mountain is comparable to trophy hunting. Because they aren't. Sure, to a millionaire, both can stoke egos, but to MANY mountaineers, it's about attaining goals. To those who have physical setbacks and to have made Everest, K2 or any mountain summit a goal is clearly something else. It's about overcoming ourselves and about human spirit. To those who have climbed Everest in the name of their mother's hereditary disease that she died from already and they will eventually as well, it's about honor (this last one is about 2 guys from my home town, honoring their mother whom I had known growing up; one didn't make it to the summit and perished. :( ).

I think all that was meant by it is that it has become more of a bragging rights type of thing, and they don't give a shit who they have to step on or what amount of garbage they leave behind, or the kind sherpas that risk their lives for the people who just want to have that picture of them on top of the mountain on their mantlepiece next to the head of a bear.

sure there are those that do it for charity and for other reasons that aren't ego-driven, but I think the point being made is that people do things for themselves at huge cost to the environment around them for purely selfish reasons.

brianlux

Every time I come across this thread... :(
It's a delicate subject for us Leos.

lukin2006

Humans think they are superior in every way ... which is sad when you think about. Sometimes I wish I could look at the world through the eyes of my dog, maybe l'd be less cynical ...

backseatLover12

lukin2006 wrote:

Humans think they are superior in every way ... which is sad when you think about. Sometimes I wish I could look at the world through the eyes of my dog, maybe l'd be less cynical ...

Then, do it! Look at life as a dog would, it would probably change your perspective for the better. Cynical energy is toxic.

goingtoverona

personally I think they should sell permits to hunt the trophy hunters. yeah you can go try to shoot whatever animals you want, but to make it interesting there's a dude out there trying to hunt you too. after all, it's only death right?

SVRDhand13

brianlux wrote:

Every time I come across this thread... :(
It's a delicate subject for us Leos.

I've been furious about this for days :x

I just hope she doesn't get MORE popular because of this