Wait. So this thread actually turned into a debate of how great the Beatles are (or I guess aren't )? I think there's someone in this thread that needs to sit down, put on head phones and have the White Album, Seargent Peppers, Abbey Road, Revolver, Rubber Soul and Let Ot Be played over and over again.
Every single band that plays today wishes they had 1 album in their catalog of the quality and diversity of just those 6 albums. And they only have about a dozen more and all in like a 8 year period.
Someone actually thinks they aren't up to today's standards? Well, then I don't need those standards. I will gladly go rogue.
As far as Macca and Lennons solo stuff.... Really? Are you kidding? Imagine, Wings over America... All I will say is there is no band or songwriters that have ever played or written music that have a quarter of what The Beatles have.
And they are not even my favorite band. Rant done.
Edit: I can't let go of the being listened to today. Can anyone name 1 album put out in the last 5 years that measures up to any of the 6 I named? And I mean in current musical listening terms (whatever the hell that means).
Post edited by EdsonNascimento on
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
He also sells out stadiums playing probably 75% Beatles songs. What them relevant is people are still taking musical ideas that they popularized and being very successful with it.
Robert Plants solo work is maybe rooted in the same place as some more traditional sounding Zep stuff, but it's still pretty different sounding.
The fact that you think they lack relevance simply b/c you don't think they're relevant prove one thing and that's that you are pretty out of touch.
Maybe you are right and I'm not in touch. Maybe people are more into kid music, than I can imagine.
What's your part, who you are?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
He also sells out stadiums playing probably 75% Beatles songs. What them relevant is people are still taking musical ideas that they popularized and being very successful with it.
Robert Plants solo work is maybe rooted in the same place as some more traditional sounding Zep stuff, but it's still pretty different sounding.
The fact that you think they lack relevance simply b/c you don't think they're relevant prove one thing and that's that you are pretty out of touch.
Maybe you are right and I'm not in touch. Maybe people are more into kid music, than I can imagine.
Yeah Because Helter Skelter is an ez listen tune. This thread has actually turned comical.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Wait. So this thread actually turned into a debate of how great the Beatles are (or I guess aren't )? I think there's someone in this thread that needs to sit down, put on head phones and have the White Album, Seargent Peppers, Abbey Road, Revolver, Rubber Soul and Let Ot Be played over and over again.
As far as Macca and Lennons solo stuff.... Really? Are you kidding? Imagine, Wings over America... All I will say is there is no band or songwriters that have ever played or written music that have a quarter of what The Beatles have.
And they are not even my favorite band. Rant done.
Edit: I can't let go of the being listened to today. Can anyone name 1 album put out in the last 5 years that measures up to any of the 6 I named? And I mean in current musical listening terms (whatever the hell that means).
That should be me. You got me when you said Abbey Road and White Album but you lost me when you said Rubber Soul. Really? Songs like Michelle, Girl, In my life? Do we really have to worry that in today's world, nobody does this kind of songs?
I understand how Beatles is great, etc… but I don't know what to do with all those songs that I can only define by kid stuff? I do not even know how else they can be defined.
If people like them, think that's the greatest music of all time then be it. I just cannot come to agreement terms with you. Wish yourselves and the kids inside of you a good evening with Obladi-Oblada then. Enjoy.
PS: McCartney's and Lennon's post-Beatles work are out of discussion.
What's your part, who you are?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Maybe you are right and I'm not in touch. Maybe people are more into kid music, than I can imagine.
Yeah Because Helter Skelter is an ez listen tune. This thread has actually turned comical.
I can count 20 kid songs of Beatles out of my head. If I dig deeper, that would be 50, maybe? What we're gonna do with all those kid songs? Be a 40-year old and jump around the rope?
What's your part, who you are?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Wait. So this thread actually turned into a debate of how great the Beatles are (or I guess aren't )? I think there's someone in this thread that needs to sit down, put on head phones and have the White Album, Seargent Peppers, Abbey Road, Revolver, Rubber Soul and Let Ot Be played over and over again.
As far as Macca and Lennons solo stuff.... Really? Are you kidding? Imagine, Wings over America... All I will say is there is no band or songwriters that have ever played or written music that have a quarter of what The Beatles have.
And they are not even my favorite band. Rant done.
Edit: I can't let go of the being listened to today. Can anyone name 1 album put out in the last 5 years that measures up to any of the 6 I named? And I mean in current musical listening terms (whatever the hell that means).
That should be me. You got me when you said Abbey Road and White Album but you lost me when you said Rubber Soul. Really? Songs like Michelle, Girl, In my life? Do we really have to worry that in today's world, nobody does this kind of songs?
I understand how Beatles is great, etc… but I don't know what to do with all those songs that I can only define by kid stuff? I do not even know how else they can be defined.
If people like them, think that's the greatest music of all time then be it. I just cannot come to agreement terms with you. Wish yourselves and the kids inside of you a good evening with Obladi-Oblada then. Enjoy.
PS: McCartney's and Lennon's post-Beatles work are out of discussion.
Norwegian Wood, in my life, Nowhere Man... Whatever you look silly.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
'Great' is very difficult to define and these are not necessarily my favorite bands but these bands have been around for a long time and continue to be loved by so many... here goes..
Led Zeppelin
The Rolling Stones
The Beatles
U2
Grateful Dead
Pearl Jam
And by looking at this list, I think it's fair to say that Pearl Jam is the greatest American Rock Band of all time..
Nice list. Even though I don't enjoy every band on it.
Wait. So this thread actually turned into a debate of how great the Beatles are (or I guess aren't )? I think there's someone in this thread that needs to sit down, put on head phones and have the White Album, Seargent Peppers, Abbey Road, Revolver, Rubber Soul and Let Ot Be played over and over again.
As far as Macca and Lennons solo stuff.... Really? Are you kidding? Imagine, Wings over America... All I will say is there is no band or songwriters that have ever played or written music that have a quarter of what The Beatles have.
And they are not even my favorite band. Rant done.
Edit: I can't let go of the being listened to today. Can anyone name 1 album put out in the last 5 years that measures up to any of the 6 I named?
And I mean in current musical listening terms (whatever the hell that means).
That should be me. You got me when you said Abbey Road and White Album but you lost me when you said Rubber Soul. Really? Songs like Michelle, Girl, In my life? Do we really have to worry that in today's world, nobody does this kind of songs?
I understand how Beatles is great, etc… but I don't know what to do with all those songs that I can only define by kid stuff? I do not even know how else they can be defined.
If people like them, think that's the greatest music of all time then be it. I just cannot come to agreement terms with you. Wish yourselves and the kids inside of you a good evening with Obladi-Oblada then. Enjoy.
PS: McCartney's and Lennon's post-Beatles work are out of discussion.
In my life is a top 20 song in the history of music
The reason Beatles is not here is they are not relevant anymore. They can be a game-changer at their time but I don't think anyone would think of giving a spin to Yellow Submarine after a good dose of Rearviewmirror.
I nominate this for the "most insane statement in the history of the internet" award
Tnx. I have lots of those, so don't be quick to make that judgement.
Now go give a spin to Porch and then Strawberry fields forever consecutively to enjoy yourself.
Strawberry fields is about 37 times better than porch. Ask Eddie
'Great' is very difficult to define and these are not necessarily my favorite bands but these bands have been around for a long time and continue to be loved by so many... here goes..
Led Zeppelin
The Rolling Stones
The Beatles
U2
Grateful Dead
Pearl Jam
And by looking at this list, I think it's fair to say that Pearl Jam is the greatest American Rock Band of all time..
I like a lot of music, but if you switched out Pink Floyd with U2, I would have a hard time arguing with you.
Nice work!!
2006 - Marcus Ampitheater, Milwaukee
2011 - Alpine Valley Ampitheater, East Troy
2013 - Wrigley Field, Chicago
2014 - Xcel Energy Center, St. Paul
2014 - Bradley Center, Milwaukee 2016 - Wrigley Field, Chicago 2018 - Wrigley Field, Chicago
first, I prefaced it was bands only. if we were including solo, Clapton is of course on Mt Rushmore guitar gods-wise. but I don't think his band, Derek and the Dominos, were crazy great for long enough to get on this list.
as for Radiohead/Talking Heads/influential: so I don't consider "influential" an ultra-primary criterion for all-time greatness like many people do. it's an element of it, along with talent, execution, broad appeal and critical acclaim, plus throw in a little bit of that mystic/mythic quality that only the greats have. I don't think Beatles, Stones, Zep and Who are tops because of their influence, I think they are because they wrote the best songs/albums, played the best and had the most impact on musicians and the masses. Talking Heads are great, creative and definitely influential. I toyed with putting them 4th tier, I don't have a problem with anyone saying they are top 15. but Radiohead took what they did (plus some other things) and blew them out of the water. OK Computer is widely regarded as one of the top 10 albums ever by tons of people. Talking Heads have a lot critical acclaim, but the average Joe knows nothing of Remain in Light, whereas everyone knows OK Computer. I love PJ way more than them, but I think Radiohead has twice as big a fanbase right now and WAY more critical acclaim (although they have sunk a bit recently. I'm prediciting a bit of a comeback for them sooner than later).
Never heard of Cream? The Clapton exclusion doesn't bother me, but including a band like PJ and just dismissing him outright ludicrous. Very influential and pretty successful even if he is overrated at times.
Radiohead unquestionably deserves a mention, but I don't think OkC is any more revered than Remain in Light and I certainly don't believe they're as popular as you claim. I caught them during the In Rainbows tour at a big outdoor shed and there was barely anybody on the lawn. I think they had a spike in popularity around that time.
yes, I've heard of Cream. I don't consider them a band in the way I do these others. they have always been called a "supergroup"; ie guys who were already known for their other bands/work and got together and there was little risk and even smaller mysticism involved. kind of like LeBron James joining up with D Wade. Cream doesn't have the genesis story that the Beatles, Led Zep, Doors do, and especially not what PJ does. To me, there's just something about the magic of when it's 4-5 dudes who are essentially unknown, just have a hunch/intuition about each other and they go prove it to the world. Clapton KNEW that Ginger Baker was ridiculous, it was a gimmie. But Stone took a chance on Mike, and they all took a chance on Ed. they "knew", but they didn't know for sure.
again, I have nothing against Clapton. I think he's fantastic. but the OP and my post we strictly about BANDS.
as far as OkC vs Remain in light being revered, I think they are both critically revered, but again, one is known by the masses and the other one isnt. I clearly said in my last post I have no problem with anyone putting Talking Heads in their top 15.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
The Beatles were my favorite group for about two months in 1964. That's it. But to say they are irrelevant today would... ...well that would... ... I mean really...
That means Beatles is irrelevant to you today. Already for about 50 years. Why do you think it should be different for the rest of the world?
Ok, well first of all sorry for the sarcasm- it just struck be as hugely amusing to think of the Beatles as irrelevant. Yes, they were only my favorite band for a short while but that was just personal taste. I liked the Stones more because they were more blues based. But the Beatles have never been irrelevant to me personally and certainly not irrelevant to the world as a whole. They crafted great songs. They transformed the use of studio recording. They had a huge and lasting impact on culture. They introduced exotic instrumentation to rock and roll. They were one of if not the first band to use the idea of creating a thematic album as an integral piece of art. Their music has been and still is covered by more artists than any others (I can't prove that but I'd be willing to bet that is correct). Many bands today including Pearl Jam would not be the same had there been no Beatles.
Calling the Beatles irrelevant in rock and roll today is very much like saying Beethoven is irrelevant to orchestral music or Emily Dickinson is irrelevant to poetry. People just don't say things like that. Well I guess they do but, come on...
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I don't think Beatles, Stones, Zep and Who are tops because of their influence, I think they are because they wrote the best songs/albums, played the best and had the most impact on musicians and the masses.
I don't know what you mean there by "played the best", but the Beatles were self-admittedly poor musicians in a general sense, there was obvious tension within the band regarding Harrison's lead guitar abilities specifically, and they very openly stopped touring as a live act for the exact reason that they could NOT properly perform their newer material live. Again (although I LOVE the Beatles, particularly their pre-Sgt Pep work), including them in this list is asking for trouble. They didn't perform live for most of their supposedly "best" work, were rather lousy musicians who relegated themselves to "studio artist" status, and had no live following (given that they did not play live).
Also that sentence is self-inconsistent, starting with "are NOT tops because of their INFLUENCE" and ending with "because they *had the most IMPACT ON MUSICIANS and the masses*" [ie. INFLUENCE]
all the elements combined. you neglected to include in what you quoted from me what I wrote right before that:
"I don't consider "influential" an ultra-primary criterion for all-time greatness like many people do. it's an element of it, along with talent, execution, broad appeal and critical acclaim, plus throw in a little bit of that mystic/mythic quality that only the greats have."
TRANSLATION: influence is one of many factors. not the ONLY factor that SOME other people tend to use in these discussions. I've included influence in my criteria along with and equal to, songwriting, musicianship, critical and broad appeal, and that mythical/mystical unexplainable/undefineable quality that's just natural and part and parcel of legendary art.
I think the big 4 of the Beatles, Stones, Led Zep and the Who are all lock must-haves 1st tier, Mt Rushmore immortals.
I think the 2nd grouping #had the magic of the big 4 but not for long enough# is Floyd, Doors, Radiohead, Hendrix/Experience
third tier #ie at one point lit the WORLD on FIRE, but are just short of immortal# would be Beach Boys, U2, Ramones, Springsteen/E St, Prince/Revolution, Police, Clash, Aerosmith, Sabbath, Nirvana
4th tier #super-special, super-talented but just missing that thunder-god gene# would be REM, Niel Young/CH, Queen, G Dead, Ramones, Velvet U, Petty/Heartbreakers
All that being said, I think it's fair to slot Pearl Jam somewhere in the higher end of the 3rd tier.
additional thoughts:
I would love to see the Pixies, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr, Buzzcocks, Mission of Burma, Minutemen more into these conversations, but obviously they never had the wide commercial appeal.
I also love S'garden, AIC, Pumpkins, Peppers and even Green Daybut they just miss the GREAT level
personally don't think Metallica, ACDC, J Priest, Van Halen, GnR deserve to make this list. and I like "metal".
aside from that, I don't get how Spoon never gets mentioned AT ALL in these conversations. they're not young pups anymore. they have more than a handful of incredible albums, are studio wizards AND live gems, and are absolute critical darlings. I know they only took off on the radio a tiny bit once, but I feel like history will judge them well.
This could be a nice read… If it was in Rolling Stones magazine.
Sorry but I read enough of stuff in mass-media about Pearl Jam being a 3rd echelon kind of band so why do I have to read it again in PJ forum site? I think PJ is as good as anyone.
RS has Led Zep at 14 and the Who at 29 #hardly Mt Rushmore#, Doors at 41, Radiohead at 73, and Floyd, Queen and PJ not even on the list of top 100 AT ALL. Do I have the Byrds, the Band, Allman Bros, Sex Pistols, Kinks on my lists like they do? they have ACDC and GnR, didn't I say they didn't deserve mention in this conversation?
as far as me categorizing PJ as "third echelon" is ridiculous. I said they were HIGH in the 3rd grouping of the greatest bands of all time. I only put 8 bands definitively in front of them. which means I consider them top 10 all-time. that's hardly a diss and saying they're not as good as anyone else. in the history of rock, of all the thousands of bands, top 10 all-time is saying something quite massive and not tertiary at all.
The reason Beatles is not here is they are not relevant anymore. They can be a game-changer at their time but I don't think anyone would think of giving a spin to Yellow Submarine after a good dose of Rearviewmirror.
I nominate this for the "most insane statement in the history of the internet" award
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
Alright people, lets get serious. Here's an honest look at the worlds top six bands what what makes them the greatest:
The Monkees: Funny, cute, their own TV show- AN EPISODE THAT FEATURED FRANK ZAPPA, I WILL REMIND YOU!. What more do you want?
The Carpenters: First well known band to have feature girl drummer AND a girl lead singer. No argument there.
The Partidge Family: Hey look, Paul Westerberg covered one of their songs and they brought back family values so if you argue this one you can go live in North Korea for all I care.
Journey: Hair is everything and this is where it really started. Forget that stupid "mop top" nonsense.
Nickelback: Simply based on the number of times their name has shown up on this forums posts. I rest my case.
And the greatest of all time, Jonas Brothers: Because my six year old niece will beat the shit out of you if you say otherwise... punks.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
"Although the Pixies produced relatively few albums, whose sales were modest, they had a significant influence on the alternative rock boom of the 1990s.[118][119] Gary Smith, who produced their Come On Pilgrim, commented on the band's influence on alternative rock and their legacy in 1997:[119]
I've heard it said about The Velvet Underground that while not a lot of people bought their albums, everyone who did started a band. I think this is largely true about the Pixies as well. Charles' secret weapon turned out to be not so secret and, sooner or later, all sorts of bands were exploiting the same strategy of wide dynamics. It became a kind of new pop formula and, within a short while, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was charging up the charts and even the members of Nirvana said later that it sounded for all the world like a Pixies song.
Sonically, the Pixies are credited with popularizing the extreme dynamics and stop-start timing that would become widespread in alternative rock; Pixies songs typically feature hushed, restrained verses, and explosive, wailing choruses.[37] Artists including David Bowie, Radiohead, PJ Harvey, U2, Nirvana, The Strokes, Weezer, and Pavement have cited admiration of or influence by the Pixies.[23][23][120][121] Bono of U2 has called the Pixies "one of America's greatest bands ever",[120][122] and Radiohead's Thom Yorke has said that, while at school, "the Pixies had changed my life".[119] Bowie, whose own music had inspired Francis and Santiago while they were at university, has said that the Pixies made "just about the most compelling music of the entire 80s."[120]
One notable citation as an influence was by Kurt Cobain, on influencing Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", which he admitted was a conscious attempt to co-opt the Pixies' style. In a January 1994 interview with Rolling Stone, he said, "I was trying to write the ultimate pop song. I was basically trying to rip off the Pixies. I have to admit it [smiles]. When I heard the Pixies for the first time, I connected with that band so heavily I should have been in that band—or at least in a Pixies cover band. We used their sense of dynamics, being soft and quiet and then loud and hard."[119][123] Cobain cited Surfer Rosa as one of his main musical influences, and particularly admired the album's natural and powerful drum sounds—a result of Steve Albini's influence on the record. Albini later produced Nirvana's 1993 In Utero at the request of Cobain."
but what do Bono, Yorke, Bowie and Cobain know about it?
"Although the Pixies produced relatively few albums, whose sales were modest, they had a significant influence on the alternative rock boom of the 1990s.[118][119] Gary Smith, who produced their Come On Pilgrim, commented on the band's influence on alternative rock and their legacy in 1997:[119]
I've heard it said about The Velvet Underground that while not a lot of people bought their albums, everyone who did started a band. I think this is largely true about the Pixies as well. Charles' secret weapon turned out to be not so secret and, sooner or later, all sorts of bands were exploiting the same strategy of wide dynamics. It became a kind of new pop formula and, within a short while, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was charging up the charts and even the members of Nirvana said later that it sounded for all the world like a Pixies song.
Sonically, the Pixies are credited with popularizing the extreme dynamics and stop-start timing that would become widespread in alternative rock; Pixies songs typically feature hushed, restrained verses, and explosive, wailing choruses.[37] Artists including David Bowie, Radiohead, PJ Harvey, U2, Nirvana, The Strokes, Weezer, and Pavement have cited admiration of or influence by the Pixies.[23][23][120][121] Bono of U2 has called the Pixies "one of America's greatest bands ever",[120][122] and Radiohead's Thom Yorke has said that, while at school, "the Pixies had changed my life".[119] Bowie, whose own music had inspired Francis and Santiago while they were at university, has said that the Pixies made "just about the most compelling music of the entire 80s."[120]
One notable citation as an influence was by Kurt Cobain, on influencing Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", which he admitted was a conscious attempt to co-opt the Pixies' style. In a January 1994 interview with Rolling Stone, he said, "I was trying to write the ultimate pop song. I was basically trying to rip off the Pixies. I have to admit it [smiles]. When I heard the Pixies for the first time, I connected with that band so heavily I should have been in that band—or at least in a Pixies cover band. We used their sense of dynamics, being soft and quiet and then loud and hard."[119][123] Cobain cited Surfer Rosa as one of his main musical influences, and particularly admired the album's natural and powerful drum sounds—a result of Steve Albini's influence on the record. Albini later produced Nirvana's 1993 In Utero at the request of Cobain."
but what do Bono, Yorke, Bowie and Cobain know about it?
Go easy on him/her. Let's give this individual the benefit of the doubt and assume they've never actually listened to a Pixies album.
I like the idea behind this thread, but we all know it's all a matter of opinion since these are all bands we love, so it really just turns into a popularity contest. But does have to be popular to be considered "great?" My personal list goes as follows:
The Who
Led Zeppelin
Pearl Jam
Nine Inch Nails
Down in the hole, Jesus tries to crack a smile beneath another shovel load.
The most sensible post in this thread. Pearl Jam are close to Hall Of Fame status now as so many others have achieved over the years. I love them obviously and I wouldn't be here if I didn't but at the same time I'm surprised so many people think they're a lock for a top 5 or 10 spot. They had phenomenal album sales in the 90's but being realistic they have only enjoyed the status we are talking about here for 5 years maybe? The amount of people I've met in this century right up until present day who thought PJ were only around during that early period is unreal. If you want to put them in a list based on longevity and how good we think they are live then yes, they are up in the same tree as some legendary acts. I'd have Bob Marley and the Wailers in that third tier somewhere and Springsteen top 10 but PJ would slot in somewhere in that fourth tier with Tom Waits being added to that group.
I think the big 4 of the Beatles, Stones, Led Zep and the Who are all lock must-haves 1st tier, Mt Rushmore immortals.
I think the 2nd grouping (had the magic of the big 4 but not for long enough) is Floyd, Doors, Radiohead, Hendrix/Experience
third tier (ie at one point lit the WORLD on FIRE, but are just short of immortal) would be Beach Boys, U2, Ramones, Springsteen/E St, Prince/Revolution, Police, Clash, Aerosmith, Sabbath, Nirvana
4th tier (super-special, super-talented but just missing that thunder-god gene) would be REM, Niel Young/CH, Queen, G Dead, Ramones, Velvet U, Petty/Heartbreakers
All that being said, I think it's fair to slot Pearl Jam somewhere in the higher end of the 3rd tier.
additional thoughts:
I would love to see the Pixies, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr, Buzzcocks, Mission of Burma, Minutemen more into these conversations, but obviously they never had the wide commercial appeal.
I also love S'garden, AIC, Pumpkins, Peppers and even Green Daybut they just miss the GREAT level
personally don't think Metallica, ACDC, J Priest, Van Halen, GnR deserve to make this list. and I like "metal".
aside from that, I don't get how Spoon never gets mentioned AT ALL in these conversations. they're not young pups anymore. they have more than a handful of incredible albums, are studio wizards AND live gems, and are absolute critical darlings. I know they only took off on the radio a tiny bit once, but I feel like history will judge them well.
Like a book among the many on a shelf...
Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
The Beatles were my favorite group for about two months in 1964. That's it. But to say they are irrelevant today would... ...well that would... ... I mean really...
That means Beatles is irrelevant to you today. Already for about 50 years. Why do you think it should be different for the rest of the world?
Ok, well first of all sorry for the sarcasm- it just struck be as hugely amusing to think of the Beatles as irrelevant. Yes, they were only my favorite band for a short while but that was just personal taste. I liked the Stones more because they were more blues based. But the Beatles have never been irrelevant to me personally and certainly not irrelevant to the world as a whole. They crafted great songs. They transformed the use of studio recording. They had a huge and lasting impact on culture. They introduced exotic instrumentation to rock and roll. They were one of if not the first band to use the idea of creating a thematic album as an integral piece of art. Their music has been and still is covered by more artists than any others (I can't prove that but I'd be willing to bet that is correct). Many bands today including Pearl Jam would not be the same had there been no Beatles.
Calling the Beatles irrelevant in rock and roll today is very much like saying Beethoven is irrelevant to orchestral music or Emily Dickinson is irrelevant to poetry. People just don't say things like that. Well I guess they do but, come on...
Sarcasm is OK. Nothing to be taken too seriously in this forum.
I agree with everything you say. Beatles has done those all. They may have laid the foundation of the rock music, as we know it today.
Just go in youtube and type "Beatles for kids" and "Baby relaxing music - Beatles" and see how many stuff are out there. I have a 3-month old so I'm pretty much into this stuff, now. Try this for Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and compare the results. There is none.
This is what Beatles music stands as of today. Kids music. There is Abbey Road and the White Album, but there is a lot of other stuff of Beatles that can be defined in today's world as kids music only.
Take the song Lightning Bolt, for example. The vocal line has a simple melody, right? One that was likely to end as another kid song in Beatles' hands, 45 years ago. But what PJ makes out from that one simply makes Jimmy Fallon shout like Oh my goodness, this is rock'n roll.
What's your part, who you are?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
As are lots of things on the forum...very subjective. My bands include The Beatles, Led Zep, The Who, The Kinks, Guns 'n Roses, and Pearl Jam. In my mind, greatest bands status can only be achieved by artists that are able to do very different kinds on music within their catalog of songs. I like bands such as Bon Jovi, Metallica, Journey, The Cars etc., but to ME, they seem to be very good at doing a certain "thing", but just do that same "thing" over and over. As I said, very subjective...
Boston II 94 Boston II 06 Mansfield I 08 Mansfield II 08 Seattle I 09 Seattle II 09
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
my criteria: creativity, timelessness, creating their own sound(I know its my own weird thing, but the greats ones sound like no one else...I hope you get it) and most important--Can Bring IT LIVE
Bruce Springsteen and the E street band 15+shows
The Grateful Dead 81 shows
Pearl Jam 71 shows
Allman Bros. 14 shows
The Who 2 shows
Rush 7 shows
Pink Floyd 5 shows
Bob Marley and the Wailers - sadly not quite old enough to have caught a live show
and this list could go on, just add a honorable mention Widespread Panic (have known them a looong time, humble, sweet and smart human beings and can call down the thunder live!!
Mans heart away from nature becomes hard.
Put Life into living
Greenville 2016 #114 for me
12-6-1991 first show State Palace Theater, New Orleans
"I can see the light, coming thru the clouds in rays!!!!"
"Although the Pixies produced relatively few albums, whose sales were modest, they had a significant influence on the alternative rock boom of the 1990s.[118][119] Gary Smith, who produced their Come On Pilgrim, commented on the band's influence on alternative rock and their legacy in 1997:[119]
I've heard it said about The Velvet Underground that while not a lot of people bought their albums, everyone who did started a band. I think this is largely true about the Pixies as well. Charles' secret weapon turned out to be not so secret and, sooner or later, all sorts of bands were exploiting the same strategy of wide dynamics. It became a kind of new pop formula and, within a short while, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was charging up the charts and even the members of Nirvana said later that it sounded for all the world like a Pixies song.
Sonically, the Pixies are credited with popularizing the extreme dynamics and stop-start timing that would become widespread in alternative rock; Pixies songs typically feature hushed, restrained verses, and explosive, wailing choruses.[37] Artists including David Bowie, Radiohead, PJ Harvey, U2, Nirvana, The Strokes, Weezer, and Pavement have cited admiration of or influence by the Pixies.[23][23][120][121] Bono of U2 has called the Pixies "one of America's greatest bands ever",[120][122] and Radiohead's Thom Yorke has said that, while at school, "the Pixies had changed my life".[119] Bowie, whose own music had inspired Francis and Santiago while they were at university, has said that the Pixies made "just about the most compelling music of the entire 80s."[120]
One notable citation as an influence was by Kurt Cobain, on influencing Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", which he admitted was a conscious attempt to co-opt the Pixies' style. In a January 1994 interview with Rolling Stone, he said, "I was trying to write the ultimate pop song. I was basically trying to rip off the Pixies. I have to admit it [smiles]. When I heard the Pixies for the first time, I connected with that band so heavily I should have been in that band—or at least in a Pixies cover band. We used their sense of dynamics, being soft and quiet and then loud and hard."[119][123] Cobain cited Surfer Rosa as one of his main musical influences, and particularly admired the album's natural and powerful drum sounds—a result of Steve Albini's influence on the record. Albini later produced Nirvana's 1993 In Utero at the request of Cobain."
but what do Bono, Yorke, Bowie and Cobain know about it?
Go easy on him/her. Let's give this individual the benefit of the doubt and assume they've never actually listened to a Pixies album.
I've listened to the Pixies.
Sorry, regardless of the respect or admiration they might have from some of their peers... they are not in the same galaxy as Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones.
Sorry, regardless of the respect or admiration they might have from some of their peers... they are not in the same galaxy as Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones.
Get serious.
please go back and read my first post. I never suggested the Pixies sniffed the Stones/Zep tier.
YOU said they don't even deserve mention in this thread AT ALL. while the OP was about the 6 greatest ever, the thread has since evolved into more of a larger discussion of the top 20-25. the Pixies are absolutely arguably (not definitively) in that discussion.
I don't know if I want to jump into this given the negative Beatles comments (which truly are painful to me), but I've always had my Holy Trinity of Rock Music (and I really mean no offense to those of you who are religious):
The Father: The Beatles. They changed rock & roll music and ushered in the youth revolution. If you don't believe me, watch the first Ed Sullivan show that they were on -- the entire show, which came out on DVD a few years ago. On that show, the Beatles were just a little something for the kiddies -- which is what rock & roll was back then -- just a little something for the teenagers. It did not cross generations like it does now. The rest of the show was adult-oriented (although, ironically, Davy Jones was part of the "adult entertainment" as part of the cast of Oliver) -- and those adults were not like the adults we are today. And then watch some of the Ed Sullivan shows after that -- his show changed, and started to showcase so many of the wonderful groups that followed. Would all of this have happened without the Beatles? Maybe it was the timing, but there is no doubt in my mind that it was the genius of the Beatles.
The Son: Pearl Jam. Don't think I need to explain this one on the Pearl Jam forum.
The Holy Ghost: Bob Dylan. He wrote songs that told stories, and rock became relevant. Yes, it's often hard to watch his live performances now, but read the lyrics of his vast catalogue of songs. Simply amazing.
That means Beatles is irrelevant to you today. Already for about 50 years. Why do you think it should be different for the rest of the world?
Ok, well first of all sorry for the sarcasm- it just struck be as hugely amusing to think of the Beatles as irrelevant. Yes, they were only my favorite band for a short while but that was just personal taste. I liked the Stones more because they were more blues based. But the Beatles have never been irrelevant to me personally and certainly not irrelevant to the world as a whole. They crafted great songs. They transformed the use of studio recording. They had a huge and lasting impact on culture. They introduced exotic instrumentation to rock and roll. They were one of if not the first band to use the idea of creating a thematic album as an integral piece of art. Their music has been and still is covered by more artists than any others (I can't prove that but I'd be willing to bet that is correct). Many bands today including Pearl Jam would not be the same had there been no Beatles.
Calling the Beatles irrelevant in rock and roll today is very much like saying Beethoven is irrelevant to orchestral music or Emily Dickinson is irrelevant to poetry. People just don't say things like that. Well I guess they do but, come on...
Sarcasm is OK. Nothing to be taken too seriously in this forum.
I agree with everything you say. Beatles has done those all. They may have laid the foundation of the rock music, as we know it today.
Just go in youtube and type "Beatles for kids" and "Baby relaxing music - Beatles" and see how many stuff are out there. I have a 3-month old so I'm pretty much into this stuff, now. Try this for Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and compare the results. There is none.
This is what Beatles music stands as of today. Kids music. There is Abbey Road and the White Album, but there is a lot of other stuff of Beatles that can be defined in today's world as kids music only.
Take the song Lightning Bolt, for example. The vocal line has a simple melody, right? One that was likely to end as another kid song in Beatles' hands, 45 years ago. But what PJ makes out from that one simply makes Jimmy Fallon shout like Oh my goodness, this is rock'n roll.[/quote]
So it's not rock n roll if there are no distortion pedals being used?
Sorry, regardless of the respect or admiration they might have from some of their peers... they are not in the same galaxy as Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones.
Get serious.
please go back and read my first post. I never suggested the Pixies sniffed the Stones/Zep tier.
YOU said they don't even deserve mention in this thread AT ALL. while the OP was about the 6 greatest ever, the thread has since evolved into more of a larger discussion of the top 20-25. the Pixies are absolutely arguably (not definitively) in that discussion.
Well... I guess the thread title suggested 6 GREAT bands of all time. If we are going to morph the discussion into 6 GREAT bands, 5 almost great bands, 4 pretty darn good bands... there would be a place for the Pixies.
Even at that... the Pixies have supplanted a lot of other bands that should probably have been mentioned before them. I'm not syaing they aren't any good. I'm saying that there are MANY bands better. But this is my opinion on an opinion thread- I may very well be wrong.
Comments
Every single band that plays today wishes they had 1 album in their catalog of the quality and diversity of just those 6 albums. And they only have about a dozen more and all in like a 8 year period.
Someone actually thinks they aren't up to today's standards? Well, then I don't need those standards. I will gladly go rogue.
As far as Macca and Lennons solo stuff.... Really? Are you kidding? Imagine, Wings over America... All I will say is there is no band or songwriters that have ever played or written music that have a quarter of what The Beatles have.
And they are not even my favorite band. Rant done.
Edit: I can't let go of the being listened to today. Can anyone name 1 album put out in the last 5 years that measures up to any of the 6 I named? And I mean in current musical listening terms (whatever the hell that means).
Maybe you are right and I'm not in touch. Maybe people are more into kid music, than I can imagine.
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Yeah Because Helter Skelter is an ez listen tune.
That should be me. You got me when you said Abbey Road and White Album but you lost me when you said Rubber Soul. Really? Songs like Michelle, Girl, In my life? Do we really have to worry that in today's world, nobody does this kind of songs?
I understand how Beatles is great, etc… but I don't know what to do with all those songs that I can only define by kid stuff? I do not even know how else they can be defined.
If people like them, think that's the greatest music of all time then be it. I just cannot come to agreement terms with you. Wish yourselves and the kids inside of you a good evening with Obladi-Oblada then. Enjoy.
PS: McCartney's and Lennon's post-Beatles work are out of discussion.
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
I can count 20 kid songs of Beatles out of my head. If I dig deeper, that would be 50, maybe? What we're gonna do with all those kid songs? Be a 40-year old and jump around the rope?
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Norwegian Wood, in my life, Nowhere Man... Whatever you look silly.
Nice list. Even though I don't enjoy every band on it.
In my life is a top 20 song in the history of music
Strawberry fields is about 37 times better than porch. Ask Eddie
I like a lot of music, but if you switched out Pink Floyd with U2, I would have a hard time arguing with you.
Nice work!!
2011 - Alpine Valley Ampitheater, East Troy
2013 - Wrigley Field, Chicago
2014 - Xcel Energy Center, St. Paul
2014 - Bradley Center, Milwaukee
2016 - Wrigley Field, Chicago
2018 - Wrigley Field, Chicago
yes, I've heard of Cream. I don't consider them a band in the way I do these others. they have always been called a "supergroup"; ie guys who were already known for their other bands/work and got together and there was little risk and even smaller mysticism involved. kind of like LeBron James joining up with D Wade. Cream doesn't have the genesis story that the Beatles, Led Zep, Doors do, and especially not what PJ does. To me, there's just something about the magic of when it's 4-5 dudes who are essentially unknown, just have a hunch/intuition about each other and they go prove it to the world. Clapton KNEW that Ginger Baker was ridiculous, it was a gimmie. But Stone took a chance on Mike, and they all took a chance on Ed. they "knew", but they didn't know for sure.
again, I have nothing against Clapton. I think he's fantastic. but the OP and my post we strictly about BANDS.
as far as OkC vs Remain in light being revered, I think they are both critically revered, but again, one is known by the masses and the other one isnt. I clearly said in my last post I have no problem with anyone putting Talking Heads in their top 15.
Ok, well first of all sorry for the sarcasm- it just struck be as hugely amusing to think of the Beatles as irrelevant. Yes, they were only my favorite band for a short while but that was just personal taste. I liked the Stones more because they were more blues based. But the Beatles have never been irrelevant to me personally and certainly not irrelevant to the world as a whole. They crafted great songs. They transformed the use of studio recording. They had a huge and lasting impact on culture. They introduced exotic instrumentation to rock and roll. They were one of if not the first band to use the idea of creating a thematic album as an integral piece of art. Their music has been and still is covered by more artists than any others (I can't prove that but I'd be willing to bet that is correct). Many bands today including Pearl Jam would not be the same had there been no Beatles.
Calling the Beatles irrelevant in rock and roll today is very much like saying Beethoven is irrelevant to orchestral music or Emily Dickinson is irrelevant to poetry. People just don't say things like that. Well I guess they do but, come on...
all the elements combined. you neglected to include in what you quoted from me what I wrote right before that:
"I don't consider "influential" an ultra-primary criterion for all-time greatness like many people do. it's an element of it, along with talent, execution, broad appeal and critical acclaim, plus throw in a little bit of that mystic/mythic quality that only the greats have."
TRANSLATION: influence is one of many factors. not the ONLY factor that SOME other people tend to use in these discussions. I've included influence in my criteria along with and equal to, songwriting, musicianship, critical and broad appeal, and that mythical/mystical unexplainable/undefineable quality that's just natural and part and parcel of legendary art.
not "self-inconsistent" (whatever that means...)
ummm....no. sorry. http://www.listology.com/blindsider/lis ... -immortals
RS has Led Zep at 14 and the Who at 29 #hardly Mt Rushmore#, Doors at 41, Radiohead at 73, and Floyd, Queen and PJ not even on the list of top 100 AT ALL. Do I have the Byrds, the Band, Allman Bros, Sex Pistols, Kinks on my lists like they do? they have ACDC and GnR, didn't I say they didn't deserve mention in this conversation?
as far as me categorizing PJ as "third echelon" is ridiculous. I said they were HIGH in the 3rd grouping of the greatest bands of all time. I only put 8 bands definitively in front of them. which means I consider them top 10 all-time. that's hardly a diss and saying they're not as good as anyone else. in the history of rock, of all the thousands of bands, top 10 all-time is saying something quite massive and not tertiary at all.
second
The Monkees: Funny, cute, their own TV show- AN EPISODE THAT FEATURED FRANK ZAPPA, I WILL REMIND YOU!. What more do you want?
The Carpenters: First well known band to have feature girl drummer AND a girl lead singer. No argument there.
The Partidge Family: Hey look, Paul Westerberg covered one of their songs and they brought back family values so if you argue this one you can go live in North Korea for all I care.
Journey: Hair is everything and this is where it really started. Forget that stupid "mop top" nonsense.
Nickelback: Simply based on the number of times their name has shown up on this forums posts. I rest my case.
And the greatest of all time, Jonas Brothers: Because my six year old niece will beat the shit out of you if you say otherwise... punks.
have you ever even listened to Surfer Rosa or Doolittle?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixies#Impact
"Although the Pixies produced relatively few albums, whose sales were modest, they had a significant influence on the alternative rock boom of the 1990s.[118][119] Gary Smith, who produced their Come On Pilgrim, commented on the band's influence on alternative rock and their legacy in 1997:[119]
I've heard it said about The Velvet Underground that while not a lot of people bought their albums, everyone who did started a band. I think this is largely true about the Pixies as well. Charles' secret weapon turned out to be not so secret and, sooner or later, all sorts of bands were exploiting the same strategy of wide dynamics. It became a kind of new pop formula and, within a short while, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was charging up the charts and even the members of Nirvana said later that it sounded for all the world like a Pixies song.
Sonically, the Pixies are credited with popularizing the extreme dynamics and stop-start timing that would become widespread in alternative rock; Pixies songs typically feature hushed, restrained verses, and explosive, wailing choruses.[37] Artists including David Bowie, Radiohead, PJ Harvey, U2, Nirvana, The Strokes, Weezer, and Pavement have cited admiration of or influence by the Pixies.[23][23][120][121] Bono of U2 has called the Pixies "one of America's greatest bands ever",[120][122] and Radiohead's Thom Yorke has said that, while at school, "the Pixies had changed my life".[119] Bowie, whose own music had inspired Francis and Santiago while they were at university, has said that the Pixies made "just about the most compelling music of the entire 80s."[120]
One notable citation as an influence was by Kurt Cobain, on influencing Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", which he admitted was a conscious attempt to co-opt the Pixies' style. In a January 1994 interview with Rolling Stone, he said, "I was trying to write the ultimate pop song. I was basically trying to rip off the Pixies. I have to admit it [smiles]. When I heard the Pixies for the first time, I connected with that band so heavily I should have been in that band—or at least in a Pixies cover band. We used their sense of dynamics, being soft and quiet and then loud and hard."[119][123] Cobain cited Surfer Rosa as one of his main musical influences, and particularly admired the album's natural and powerful drum sounds—a result of Steve Albini's influence on the record. Albini later produced Nirvana's 1993 In Utero at the request of Cobain."
but what do Bono, Yorke, Bowie and Cobain know about it?
Go easy on him/her. Let's give this individual the benefit of the doubt and assume they've never actually listened to a Pixies album.
The Who
Led Zeppelin
Pearl Jam
Nine Inch Nails
Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
I just don't happen to share the same opinion with you. That doesn't make anyone silly.
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Sarcasm is OK. Nothing to be taken too seriously in this forum.
I agree with everything you say. Beatles has done those all. They may have laid the foundation of the rock music, as we know it today.
Just go in youtube and type "Beatles for kids" and "Baby relaxing music - Beatles" and see how many stuff are out there. I have a 3-month old so I'm pretty much into this stuff, now. Try this for Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and compare the results. There is none.
This is what Beatles music stands as of today. Kids music. There is Abbey Road and the White Album, but there is a lot of other stuff of Beatles that can be defined in today's world as kids music only.
Take the song Lightning Bolt, for example. The vocal line has a simple melody, right? One that was likely to end as another kid song in Beatles' hands, 45 years ago. But what PJ makes out from that one simply makes Jimmy Fallon shout like Oh my goodness, this is rock'n roll.
2012: Arras, Berlin 1-2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires
2014: Milano, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin
2016: NY MSG 1
Neil Young and Crazy Horse CSNY and how about Eric Clapton
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
Bruce Springsteen and the E street band 15+shows
The Grateful Dead 81 shows
Pearl Jam 71 shows
Allman Bros. 14 shows
The Who 2 shows
Rush 7 shows
Pink Floyd 5 shows
Bob Marley and the Wailers - sadly not quite old enough to have caught a live show
and this list could go on, just add a honorable mention Widespread Panic (have known them a looong time, humble, sweet and smart human beings and can call down the thunder live!!
Put Life into living
Greenville 2016 #114 for me
12-6-1991 first show State Palace Theater, New Orleans
"I can see the light, coming thru the clouds in rays!!!!"
I've listened to the Pixies.
Sorry, regardless of the respect or admiration they might have from some of their peers... they are not in the same galaxy as Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones.
Get serious.
please go back and read my first post. I never suggested the Pixies sniffed the Stones/Zep tier.
YOU said they don't even deserve mention in this thread AT ALL. while the OP was about the 6 greatest ever, the thread has since evolved into more of a larger discussion of the top 20-25. the Pixies are absolutely arguably (not definitively) in that discussion.
The Father: The Beatles. They changed rock & roll music and ushered in the youth revolution. If you don't believe me, watch the first Ed Sullivan show that they were on -- the entire show, which came out on DVD a few years ago. On that show, the Beatles were just a little something for the kiddies -- which is what rock & roll was back then -- just a little something for the teenagers. It did not cross generations like it does now. The rest of the show was adult-oriented (although, ironically, Davy Jones was part of the "adult entertainment" as part of the cast of Oliver) -- and those adults were not like the adults we are today. And then watch some of the Ed Sullivan shows after that -- his show changed, and started to showcase so many of the wonderful groups that followed. Would all of this have happened without the Beatles? Maybe it was the timing, but there is no doubt in my mind that it was the genius of the Beatles.
The Son: Pearl Jam. Don't think I need to explain this one on the Pearl Jam forum.
The Holy Ghost: Bob Dylan. He wrote songs that told stories, and rock became relevant. Yes, it's often hard to watch his live performances now, but read the lyrics of his vast catalogue of songs. Simply amazing.
Sarcasm is OK. Nothing to be taken too seriously in this forum.
I agree with everything you say. Beatles has done those all. They may have laid the foundation of the rock music, as we know it today.
Just go in youtube and type "Beatles for kids" and "Baby relaxing music - Beatles" and see how many stuff are out there. I have a 3-month old so I'm pretty much into this stuff, now. Try this for Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and compare the results. There is none.
This is what Beatles music stands as of today. Kids music. There is Abbey Road and the White Album, but there is a lot of other stuff of Beatles that can be defined in today's world as kids music only.
Take the song Lightning Bolt, for example. The vocal line has a simple melody, right? One that was likely to end as another kid song in Beatles' hands, 45 years ago. But what PJ makes out from that one simply makes Jimmy Fallon shout like Oh my goodness, this is rock'n roll.[/quote]
So it's not rock n roll if there are no distortion pedals being used?
Well... I guess the thread title suggested 6 GREAT bands of all time. If we are going to morph the discussion into 6 GREAT bands, 5 almost great bands, 4 pretty darn good bands... there would be a place for the Pixies.
Even at that... the Pixies have supplanted a lot of other bands that should probably have been mentioned before them. I'm not syaing they aren't any good. I'm saying that there are MANY bands better. But this is my opinion on an opinion thread- I may very well be wrong.