ANY OTHER COUNTRIES DO ANYTHING??

chadwick

Guitar92player wrote:

Other countries may think we are crazy. stupid, or egotistical when it comes to helping other countries, but for the ones that say all that, I think their decision not to help says more about them than it does us.

well said & simply a fact

Last-12-Exit

chadwick wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i made a list the other day. i ask again

what are south korea, thailand, veitnam, greece, china, spain & italy doing to help starving people all over africa? what are those countries doing to aid syrians bathing in chemical weapons? like the OP i don't hear much anything being done

You don't hear much about it because 1. that news isn't sexy and 2. Other countries don't don't self promote and blow smoke up their own ass like the US.

i would like to hear positive work & unity with helping out struggling humanity. it should be big news to get the word out. it aint like a low key athelete or anonymous musician who gives millions to charity in order to better a struggling area in ethiopia or detroit

I agree with you Chadwick, but, how can the united stated be held accountable to to fix "struggling humanity?" Its everywhere. Especially in our own country.

The atrocities in Syria are undeniably horrific and evil, but its not our problem. Period. Its an out of control civil war that we have no business stepping into. Once the war is over, I have no problem sending aid and helping the civilians.

Historic amnesia will only lead to bigger problems.

satansbed

brianlux wrote:

This brings to my mind some questions, satansbed-- and I mean them sincerely- not trying to be argumentative or combative but...

1."there are times when a more powerful state should intervene". Why is that and who made it our job? I really don't understand that concept.

2. " it is up to individual countries to become the "world police" particularly if they are a hegemony like america". Why is it up to us and what gives us the right to practice hegemony over other countries? We don't own them.

3. "If the united States shirks that responsibility". But who made it our responsibility? Again, that's something that I just don't get. What if China or Russia acted that way toward the country you or I live in. Would that be OK?

4. "all the countries who are around equal in power will start to battle to fill the void left...that's how world war one happened". World war is something we don't really have to worry about- at least in the sense that all all-out world war would be winnable. Every one would lose.

To my way of thinking, it still makes more sense to clean up our own "house", set an example, and help (help as opposed to forcing our selves upon or enabling) other countries who want to do the same- especially those who want a cleaner, healthier, more peaceful world.

Well really it naturally became a Hegemony. it is the most powerful country on earth. being a hegemony is not something you practice per se.

during the cold war there where two Hegemonies because there where too roughly equally powered countries. and each of these powers balanced each other out. hence why it remained largely "cold" but prior to that there where lots of roughly equally powered nations and you had one of the bloodiest periods of human history in the two world wars.

the whole reason that a world war is something we don't have to worry about is that the united states is a hegemony. it prevents china from fighting russia for power, it prevents india and pakistan from devolving into full scale war. just by its very existence as the most militarily and economically powerful country.

although it may not seem like it the last thirty years are probably the most peaceful the world has ever seen.


and i share similar sentiments to you about not wanting to be combative, you just raised some interesting points. both here and in other threads that i felt needed to be expanded upon

chadwick

Last-12-Exit wrote:

I agree with you Chadwick, but, how can the united stated be held accountable to to fix "struggling humanity?" Its everywhere. Especially in our own country.

The atrocities in Syria are undeniably horrific and evil, but its not our problem. Period. Its an out of control civil war that we have no business stepping into. Once the war is over, I have no problem sending aid and helping the civilians.

Historic amnesia will only lead to bigger problems.

but it is our problem; we are all one, we are connected. rather people realize this, accept this or think this is the insane rambling of a madman... it is not.

fact is, when we lie down at night we are locked in to our fellow man & their spirit, when we rise first thing in the morning sunshine, we are locked in to our fellow man...why? because they have a spiritual signature like ours.

it is not one countries duty..no. it is every countries duty to give a helping hand not hand out gernades

women, child & men all innocent are bathing in chemicals. i can not understand why human beings keep destroying each other & this planet

however, i do understand destroying monsters & removing evil from decency. this is not a full on old school type war/battle.

unsung

Ah the UN, what a scam.

brianlux

satansbed wrote:

brianlux wrote:

well really it naturally became a Hegemony. it is the most powerful country on earth. being a hegemony is not something you practice per se.

during the cold war there where two Hegemonies because there where too roughly equally powered countries. and each of these powers balanced each other out. hence why it remained largely "cold" but prior to that there where lots of roughly equally powered nations and you had one of the bloodiest periods of human history in the two world wars.

the whole reason that a world war is something we don't have to worry about is that the united states is a hegemony. it prevents china from fighting russia for power, it prevents india and pakistan from devolving into full scale war. just by its very existence as the most militarily and economically powerful country.

although it may not seem like it the last thirty years are probably the most peaceful the world has ever seen.

and i share similar sentiments to you about not wanting to be combative, you just raised some interesting points. both here and in other threads that i felt needed to be expanded upon

What you describe is sort of what my wife refers to as a "benevolent dictatorship". If our hegemony really were all about that I suppose it might work. I'm just not sure how much "benevolence" is built into the machine. But one can always hope!

(and, no, I did not feel any combativeness in your posts. )

satansbed

brianlux wrote:

What you describe is sort of what my wife refers to as a "benevolent dictatorship". If our hegemony really were all about that I suppose it might work. I'm just not sure how much "benevolence" is built into the machine. But one can always hope!

(and, no, I did not feel any combativeness in your posts. )

I think a better way to look at it is to think of the world as a village. now most of the time this village leaves each to their own, except to trade with each other etc. now in this village the U.S. is the only person with a gun, but its largely satisfied to leave others control their own lives. but Syria is treating its children really badly and one day one of its children reports to its neighbour with a broken arm. should the united states, the only person in the village that has the force to influence Syria to not hurt its children intervene or should it not get involved because it's not its fight.

not a perfect analogy, but i am tired and not a perfect human being

lcusick

dimitrispearljam wrote:

chadwick wrote:

well if that is the case, one day the u.s. will not be to thrilled with the karma it brought onto itself

karma is out there..the rest of the world hate usa you know...
seriously..i met alot of Americans all this years,great people..i try to tell others here,or from other countries.my experience with good Americans...and you know what..no one fuckin believe me....

My daughter studied International Relations in college. Her dream all through high school and college was to go to the Peace Corp in Africa and help educate the people about AIDS. It is a long process (2 years) to get accepted into the Peace Corp. She was accepted and at 22 years old got on a plane to Zambia, Africa. Guess what? She was not welcomed there!!! A very long story but after 6 months she came home. It took a very long time for her to recover from that. She was very idealistic and wanted to make a difference. Now she is a special education teacher and is making a difference in her own country helping children. She thinks the Peace Corp went about this education to the villages in Zambia the wrong way. Americans did not understand their culture and did not understand that these people did not want to be told what to do.
I feel very sorry for those suffering in Syria, but am not so certain that we are going about it the right way. Why can't we be patient and wait for the UN to handle this situation? Isn't that the purpose of the UN? People in other countries do not like us, because we push our ideals onto them. Meanwhile, we have our own problems in our own country. We did not learn anything from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. We just keep making the same mistakes. And young lives are being sacrificed as well. Karma will get us in the end.

Guitar92player

lcusick wrote:

My daughter studied International Relations in college. Her dream all through high school and college was to go to the Peace Corp in Africa and help educate the people about AIDS. It is a long process (2 years) to get accepted into the Peace Corp. She was accepted and at 22 years old got on a plane to Zambia, Africa. Guess what? She was not welcomed there!!! A very long story but after 6 months she came home. It took a very long time for her to recover from that. She was very idealistic and wanted to make a difference. Now she is a special education teacher and is making a difference in her own country helping children. She thinks the Peace Corp went about this education to the villages in Zambia the wrong way. Americans did not understand their culture and did not understand that these people did not want to be told what to do.
I feel very sorry for those suffering in Syria, but am not so certain that we are going about it the right way. Why can't we be patient and wait for the UN to handle this situation? Isn't that the purpose of the UN? People in other countries do not like us, because we push our ideals onto them. Meanwhile, we have our own problems in our own country. We did not learn anything from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. We just keep making the same mistakes. And young lives are being sacrificed as well. Karma will get us in the end.

Very nice post.

You are right. I believe we should help them, but at the same time we can't keep thinking we will make Syria the United States, Jr. I want to help those poor citizens (not rebels), but helping will have many negative consequences.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

if anyone here thinks the US government gives a shit about the civilians of any other country, they are deluding themselves. the US government doesn't give TWO SHITS about anyone else. All they want is to:

1) make sure they keep rogue nations in check
2) keep the oil flowing
3) more democracy = more potential international allies

if you think they give a shit, why did they go in and capture Saddam and let him be hanged in a back room, but they didn't do that with any other world dictator, ones committing genocide against their own people every day?

RESOURCES. Plain and simple.

Guitar92player

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

if anyone here thinks the US government gives a shit about the civilians of any other country, they are deluding themselves. the US government doesn't give TWO SHITS about anyone else. All they want is to:

1) make sure they keep rogue nations in check
2) keep the oil flowing
3) more democracy = more potential international allies

if you think they give a shit, why did they go in and capture Saddam and let him be hanged in a back room, but they didn't do that with any other world dictator, ones committing genocide against their own people every day?

RESOURCES. Plain and simple.

This is most likely true, but I don't think its to the exact extreme as you put it.

I know many wars/interventions is an attempt to retain/expand resources, but in this case I believe the well-being of the people of Syria is the major concern, as well as to flex some muscle perhaps and keep other countries in check.

If it was truly all about resources in this case, the US would have intervened sooner and would have definitely intervened without question and argument.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Guitar92player wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

if anyone here thinks the US government gives a shit about the civilians of any other country, they are deluding themselves. the US government doesn't give TWO SHITS about anyone else. All they want is to:

1) make sure they keep rogue nations in check
2) keep the oil flowing
3) more democracy = more potential international allies

if you think they give a shit, why did they go in and capture Saddam and let him be hanged in a back room, but they didn't do that with any other world dictator, ones committing genocide against their own people every day?

RESOURCES. Plain and simple.

This is most likely true, but I don't think its to the exact extreme as you put it.

I know many wars/interventions is an attempt to retain/expand resources, but in this case I believe the well-being of the people of Syria is the major concern, as well as to flex some muscle perhaps and keep other countries in check.

If it was truly all about resources in this case, the US would have intervened sooner and would have definitely intervened without question and argument.

resources is not just oil. it's also allies, it's also keeping your "muscle" as you put it (and to which I agree), etc.

Byrnzie

http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... nteractive

China has committed $75bn (£48bn) on aid and development projects in Africa in the past decade.

China's financial commitments are significantly larger than previous estimates...

Byrnzie

fear4freedom wrote:

Looks to me that the USA is the ONLY hope for this world whether you like it or not! So all you anti-Americans out there.....show me another model country that we should follow!

How about a country that hasn't spent the last 50 years overthrowing democratically elected leaders and replacing them with dictators? How about a country whose economy doesn't depend almost entirely on the sale of weapons across the World? How about a country that hasn't spent the last 50 years at war, and which supports ethnic cleansing, and that stood virtually alone in the World in supporting the racist South African Apartheid regime?

And as for your use of the term 'anti-American' to describe anyone critical of your government and it's policies, this just tells me that you're someone who would follow your countries leaders whether they be Mother Theresa or Adolf Hitler, and that therefore you can't be taken seriously. You do realize that your constant spouting about 'God', and country, and anti-Americanism, makes you no different from any flag-sucking Red Guard, Brown Shirt, or Soviet Apparatchik, in any of the countries you profess to hate so much, right?

Carry on...

Drowned Out

Guitar92player wrote:

This is most likely true, but I don't think its to the exact extreme as you put it.

I know many wars/interventions is an attempt to retain/expand resources, but in this case I believe the well-being of the people of Syria is the major concern, as well as to flex some muscle perhaps and keep other countries in check.

If it was truly all about resources in this case, the US would have intervened sooner and would have definitely intervened without question and argument.

Western powers, and the gulf monarchies have been providing arms, training, and intelligence to the Rebels from the beginning....making the focus on 'intervention' in their civil war a bit of a misleading starting point for debate.
If there is no proof yet of who launched the chemical attacks, and you can acknowledge that many wars/interventions are an attempt to retain/expand resources, I have to ask on what you base your belief that "the well-being of the people of Syria is the major concern" this time? Please tell me it's something I've missed in the news, and not just good faith. Fool us twice...we don't get fooled again?

satansbed

Drowned Out wrote:

Guitar92player wrote:

This is most likely true, but I don't think its to the exact extreme as you put it.

I know many wars/interventions is an attempt to retain/expand resources, but in this case I believe the well-being of the people of Syria is the major concern, as well as to flex some muscle perhaps and keep other countries in check.

If it was truly all about resources in this case, the US would have intervened sooner and would have definitely intervened without question and argument.

Western powers, and the gulf monarchies have been providing arms, training, and intelligence to the Rebels from the beginning....making the focus on 'intervention' in their civil war a bit of a misleading starting point for debate.
If there is no proof yet of who launched the chemical attacks, and you can acknowledge that many wars/interventions are an attempt to retain/expand resources, I have to ask on what you base your belief that "the well-being of the people of Syria is the major concern" this time? Please tell me it's something I've missed in the news, and not just good faith. Fool us twice...we don't get fooled again?

http://rt.com/news/germany-syria-sarin- ... gence-326/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/ ... GQ20130902

Byrnzie

satansbed

Byrnzie wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Looks to me that the USA is the ONLY hope for this world whether you like it or not! So all you anti-Americans out there.....show me another model country that we should follow!

How about a country that hasn't spent the last 50 years overthrowing democratically elected leaders and replacing them with dictators? How about a country whose economy doesn't depend almost entirely on the sale of weapons across the World? How about a country that hasn't spent the last 50 years at war, and which supports ethnic cleansing, and that stood virtually alone in the World in supporting the racist South African Apartheid regime?

And as for your use of the term 'anti-American' to describe anyone critical of your government and it's policies, this just tells me that you're someone who would follow your countries leaders whether they be Mother Theresa or Adolf Hitler, and that therefore you can't be taken seriously. You do realize that your constant spouting about 'God', and country, and anti-Americanism, makes you no different from any flag-sucking Red Guard, Brown Shirt, or Soviet Apparatchik, in any of the countries you profess to hate so much, right?

Carry on...

I don't agree with your first paragraph. it's just not that that simple.

however, I just wanted to say your second paragraph is bang on

dimitrispearljam

lcusick wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

chadwick wrote:

well if that is the case, one day the u.s. will not be to thrilled with the karma it brought onto itself

karma is out there..the rest of the world hate usa you know...
seriously..i met alot of Americans all this years,great people..i try to tell others here,or from other countries.my experience with good Americans...and you know what..no one fuckin believe me....

My daughter studied International Relations in college. Her dream all through high school and college was to go to the Peace Corp in Africa and help educate the people about AIDS. It is a long process (2 years) to get accepted into the Peace Corp. She was accepted and at 22 years old got on a plane to Zambia, Africa. Guess what? She was not welcomed there!!! A very long story but after 6 months she came home. It took a very long time for her to recover from that. She was very idealistic and wanted to make a difference. Now she is a special education teacher and is making a difference in her own country helping children. She thinks the Peace Corp went about this education to the villages in Zambia the wrong way. Americans did not understand their culture and did not understand that these people did not want to be told what to do.
I feel very sorry for those suffering in Syria, but am not so certain that we are going about it the right way. Why can't we be patient and wait for the UN to handle this situation? Isn't that the purpose of the UN? People in other countries do not like us, because we push our ideals onto them. Meanwhile, we have our own problems in our own country. We did not learn anything from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. We just keep making the same mistakes. And young lives are being sacrificed as well. Karma will get us in the end.

i think ..this is the first post here in MT Forum that i agree 10000000000%...
in 2 paragraphs you just said it all..this is exactly the situation,this is exactly how the rest of the world thinks
i was talking today with co-workers about the Syria situation,we are close to the area,and in Airforce,so all this will affect our alarm here,and our readiness..
and a guy i work with said.."who the fuck gave the Americans the right to play it the worldpeacemaker,to be the superheros?
they should fuckin stay home and leave Syria deal alone with their problems..and deal with their own problem,like stoping lunitics from killing small childern at their schools.."

and im sorry about what happen to your daughter and her dream didnt come true,cos she pay the price just to be American citizen...

dimitrispearljam

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

if anyone here thinks the US government gives a shit about the civilians of any other country, they are deluding themselves. the US government doesn't give TWO SHITS about anyone else. All they want is to:

1) make sure they keep rogue nations in check
2) keep the oil flowing
3) more democracy = more potential international allies

if you think they give a shit, why did they go in and capture Saddam and let him be hanged in a back room, but they didn't do that with any other world dictator, ones committing genocide against their own people every day?

RESOURCES. Plain and simple.

yeah..there are countries out there ,which dealing,dictators,or bad goverments,but noone give a shit,cos their product are bananas and oranges..if you dont have oil as country,noone cares about any dictator or civilians get killed....