Global warming...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

lukin2006 wrote:

And I know who most of these litter bugs are ... But I'll keep that to myself, because people on these boards can't handle the truth.

enlighten us. I think we can handle it.

otter

I've visited beaches, islands, coastal towns and communities all over the world in my life; I've lived in different temperate zones for decades at a time. The fact is nothing has changed at all in my lifetime. The seasons come and go. It is hot then cool then cold then it happenes all over again. The ocean tides bring the sea up the beach then pull it back out several times a day.

Al Gore scared me too. But I learned that the science he taught was based on inconsistencies and flat out lies. I realized that Al Gore is full of shit and I rejoiced in the truth that we are not doomed.

It's okay to not be afraid.

brianlux

otter wrote:

I've visited beaches, islands, coastal towns and communities all over the world in my life; I've lived in different temperate zones for decades at a time. The fact is nothing has changed at all in my lifetime. The seasons come and go. It is hot then cool then cold then it happenes all over again. The ocean tides bring the sea up the beach then pull it back out several times a day.

Not to sound like a crotchety old fart, otter, but I'm wondering how old you are? I'm... ah, well, old enough to have witnessed weather changes up and down the west coast. I know a number of even older codgers who will attest to that.

otter wrote:

Al Gore scared me too. But I learned that the science he taught was based on inconsistencies and flat out lies. I realized that Al Gore is full of shit and I rejoiced in the truth that we are not doomed.

Al Gore was once one of the best things that happened to the environmental movement (yuck- it should not be thought of as a "movement"- that's what bowels do) with his early work as well as one of the worst- with his unsustainable life style and that gigantic litter-fest rock thing he did. Not to totally disparage the man, but there are many people who much better represent environmentalism. Huge on that list (to name a few)- (and I would encourage you to check these names out for your own verification):

Wendell Berry

Jacques-Yves Cousteau

Dave Foreman

James Hansen

Aldo Leopold

James Lovelock

David Suzuki

Bill McKibben

Terry Tempest Williams

otter wrote:

It's okay to not be afraid.

Absolutely! Fear just gets in the way and stymies positive action.

JonnyPistachio

otter wrote:

I've visited beaches, islands, coastal towns and communities all over the world in my life; I've lived in different temperate zones for decades at a time. The fact is nothing has changed at all in my lifetime. The seasons come and go. It is hot then cool then cold then it happenes all over again. The ocean tides bring the sea up the beach then pull it back out several times a day.

I've looked up in the sky hundreds, even thousands of times in my life and never once saw that ozone hole. :P

backseatLover12

otter wrote:

I've visited beaches, islands, coastal towns and communities all over the world in my life; I've lived in different temperate zones for decades at a time. The fact is nothing has changed at all in my lifetime. The seasons come and go. It is hot then cool then cold then it happenes all over again. The ocean tides bring the sea up the beach then pull it back out several times a day.

So are you denying that erosion happens?

otter

Of course I understand erosion. I am explaining that the ocean level has not risen because while some arctic ice melts other arctic water is freezing and replacing it.

The point is climate changes and it has nothing to do with humans transferring one form of carbon to another.

The Earth itself creates so called "fossil fuels" from deep within the planet due to plate tectonics and geothermal energy. It happens on moons in our solar system. Old oil wells are slowly refilling. Natural gas is so incredibly deep because it too is simply a transfer of carbon just like coal and oil.

Everything is super in this country but some think we somehow are a problem to the planet? Get real.

backseatLover12

otter wrote:

Of course I understand erosion. I am explaining that the ocean level has not risen because while some arctic ice melts other arctic water is freezing and replacing it.

The point is climate changes and it has nothing to do with humans transferring one form of carbon to another.

The Earth itself creates so called "fossil fuels" from deep within the planet due to plate tectonics and geothermal energy. It happens on moons in our solar system. Old oil wells are slowly refilling. Natural gas is so incredibly deep because it too is simply a transfer of carbon just like coal and oil.

Everything is super in this country but some think we somehow are a problem to the planet? Get real.

You're just living in denial, man. I feel bad for people who think that we are not responsible, nor need to do anything to help preserve the beautiful planet we've got, while we're on it. Go ask the polar bears how their habitat is doing. Oh, that's right, the Arctic is fine. :?

JonnyPistachio

otter wrote:

Everything is super in this country but some think we somehow are a problem to the planet? Get real.

If you dont think pollution, excessive greenhouse gases, ozone holes, deforestation, ocean dumping, radiation spills, oil spills, etc, etc, are a problem, there's nothing left to say here... :?

Wow dude.

otter

backseatLover12 wrote:

otter wrote:

Of course I understand erosion. I am explaining that the ocean level has not risen because while some arctic ice melts other arctic water is freezing and replacing it.

The point is climate changes and it has nothing to do with humans transferring one form of carbon to another.

The Earth itself creates so called "fossil fuels" from deep within the planet due to plate tectonics and geothermal energy. It happens on moons in our solar system. Old oil wells are slowly refilling. Natural gas is so incredibly deep because it too is simply a transfer of carbon just like coal and oil.

Everything is super in this country but some think we somehow are a problem to the planet? Get real.

You're just living in denial, man. I feel bad for people who think that we are not responsible, nor need to do anything to help preserve the beautiful planet we've got, while we're on it. Go ask the polar bears how their habitat is doing. Oh, that's right, the Arctic is fine. :?

You don't know how I live. I am a good steward of the planet. But not because I believe in non-sense.

Do you drive a car or ride a bus or catch a car ride with friends? Yeah, you do. What do you do to help preserve the beautiful planet? Besides belittle those who don't go along with your beliefs and sitting around feeling depressed about phony global warming? Nothing right, that's is?

You go talk to polar bears see what that gets you...you won't understand their language then they'll eat you sport.

mikepegg44

I usually try to stay out of these as the science is out of my expertise

but I would ask this, regardless if man is the cause, what is the problem with exploring cleaner ways to live our lives? What is the problem with trying to lower gas emissions that are harmful? what is the problem with exploring cheaper forms of energy? Man may not be the only cause but we are definitely adding to the problem.

I am not sure why people don't want to live a cleaner lifestyle. If all of us did a little it would add up to a lot pretty quickly and maybe we could avoid having to make drastic changes when the shit hits the fan

otter

mikepegg44 wrote:

I usually try to stay out of these as the science is out of my expertise

but I would ask this, regardless if man is the cause, what is the problem with exploring cleaner ways to live our lives? What is the problem with trying to lower gas emissions that are harmful? what is the problem with exploring cheaper forms of energy? Man may not be the only cause but we are definitely adding to the problem.

I am not sure why people don't want to live a cleaner lifestyle. If all of us did a little it would add up to a lot pretty quickly and maybe we could avoid having to make drastic changes when the shit hits the fan

Nothing. That's great! Figure it out and make a billion bucks. But don't empower the federal or even worse some world government to force it on everybody.

backseatLover12

otter wrote:

backseatLover12 wrote:

otter wrote:

Of course I understand erosion. I am explaining that the ocean level has not risen because while some arctic ice melts other arctic water is freezing and replacing it.

The point is climate changes and it has nothing to do with humans transferring one form of carbon to another.

The Earth itself creates so called "fossil fuels" from deep within the planet due to plate tectonics and geothermal energy. It happens on moons in our solar system. Old oil wells are slowly refilling. Natural gas is so incredibly deep because it too is simply a transfer of carbon just like coal and oil.

Everything is super in this country but some think we somehow are a problem to the planet? Get real.

You're just living in denial, man. I feel bad for people who think that we are not responsible, nor need to do anything to help preserve the beautiful planet we've got, while we're on it. Go ask the polar bears how their habitat is doing. Oh, that's right, the Arctic is fine. :?

You don't know how I live. I am a good steward of the planet. But not because I believe in non-sense.

Do you drive a car or ride a bus or catch a car ride with friends? Yeah, you do. What do you do to help preserve the beautiful planet? Besides belittle those who don't go along with your beliefs and sitting around feeling depressed about phony global warming? Nothing right, that's is?

You go talk to polar bears see what that gets you...you won't understand their language then they'll eat you sport.

Because you call it "nonsense" tells me enough. Good luck with your outlook, does Fox News tell you to think the way you do?

polaris_x

soo ... is it that you don't believe the science of global warming or is it because you've attached global warming to be a gov't conspiracy? ... in that global warming is a propaganda piece utilized by the gov't to impose laws and taxes and impede your freedoms ...

backseatLover12

mikepegg44 wrote:

I usually try to stay out of these as the science is out of my expertise

but I would ask this, regardless if man is the cause, what is the problem with exploring cleaner ways to live our lives? What is the problem with trying to lower gas emissions that are harmful? what is the problem with exploring cheaper forms of energy? Man may not be the only cause but we are definitely adding to the problem.

I am not sure why people don't want to live a cleaner lifestyle. If all of us did a little it would add up to a lot pretty quickly and maybe we could avoid having to make drastic changes when the shit hits the fan

This is perfect, without even getting into the argument. Just knowing what's important (the condition of the planet we inhabit) and making sure we take care of it properly to ensure the continuing existence of human civilization should be enough.

But too many people are wrapped up in denying the issue, politicizing the issue, and arguing the issue that keeping what's real, gets lost in the outcome. No other country in the world is in denial to climate change quite like consumeristic America.

backseatLover12

This is for anyone interested in the history of how global warming / climate change became a "debate" rather than trusted scientific study in the U.S.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... /cron.html




And if anyone wants to question the validity of PBS? Public broadcasting is not a part of mainstream media. PBS’ mission is to create content that educates, informs and inspires. To do this, PBS offers programming that expands the minds of children,documentaries that open up new worlds, non-commercialized news programs that keep citizens informed on world events and cultures and programs that expose America to the worlds of music, theater, dance and art.

backseatLover12

Hey Otter, you may think nothing is happening at the coasts that YOU visit, but it is, very slowly. So slowly, that it's not obvious.

NASA Satellite Data Help Pinpoint Glaciers' Role in Sea Level Rise


WASHINGTON -- A new study of glaciers worldwide using observations from two NASA satellites has helped resolve differences in estimates of how fast glaciers are disappearing and contributing to sea level rise.

The new research found glaciers outside of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, repositories of 1 percent of all land ice, lost an average of 571 trillion pounds (259 trillion kilograms) of mass every year during the six-year study period, making the oceans rise 0.03 inches (0.7 mm) per year. This is equal to about 30 percent of the total observed global sea level rise during the same period and matches the combined contribution to sea level from the Greenland and Antarctica ice sheets.

The study compares traditional ground measurements to satellite data from NASA's Ice, Cloud, and Land Elevation Satellite (ICESat) and Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) missions to estimate ice loss for glaciers in all regions of the planet. The study period spans 2003 to 2009, the years when the two missions overlapped.

"For the first time, we have been able to very precisely constrain how much these glaciers as a whole are contributing to sea level rise," said Alex Gardner, Earth scientist at Clark University in Worcester, Mass., and lead author of the study. "These smaller ice bodies are currently losing about as much mass as the ice sheets."

*******************

Another link documenting the increasing sea levels, CO2, Sea Ice, and global surface temps from NASA. http://climate.nasa.gov/key_indicators

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

soo ... is it that you don't believe the science of global warming or is it because you've attached global warming to be a gov't conspiracy? ... in that global warming is a propaganda piece utilized by the gov't to impose laws and taxes and impede your freedoms ...

I myself don't believe in any conspiracy involving the government ... However I do believe governments are going to use climate change to impose taxes, because that's what governments do ...

lcusick

Global warming is real. I teach science (29 years), my son is an environmental geologist, and I have lived on this planet for 53 years. We cannot continue to pollute all over the world and think that this is not taking a toll on our planet. Global warming is global warming and has nothing to do with politics. When all these people who do not believe this is true have great great grandchildren that cannot go outside due to no ozone layer etc. then we will see who suffers. So if you want to be selfish and only care about yourselves living on this planet now and have no concern for those who are not even born yet, then go ahead keep polluting and stay in denial. We should take care of our beautiful planet without the government making us do so.

brianlux

lcusick wrote:

Global warming is real. I teach science (29 years), my son is an environmental geologist, and I have lived on this planet for 53 years. We cannot continue to pollute all over the world and think that this is not taking a toll on our planet. Global warming is global warming and has nothing to do with politics. When all these people who do not believe this is true have great great grandchildren that cannot go outside due to no ozone layer etc. then we will see who suffers. So if you want to be selfish and only care about yourselves living on this planet now and have no concern for those who are not even born yet, then go ahead keep polluting and stay in denial. We should take care of our beautiful planet without the government making us do so.

Thank you, lcusick. Well said.

What I'm wondering is, if we don't want government in the position of regulating industry (which is the greatest source of pollution) how do you (or others here) suggest industrial pollution be reigned in in a timely manner (because, as you know, time is of the essence) and how do we get more ordinary citizens to do their part? I don't mean this as a challenge- I'm sincerely interest in how we can do that in such a timely manner as to avert an even greater disaster than that with which we will already likely have to deal with. If we look to a less governmental influenced position, who will keep things in check? How focused, for example, are libertarians or Tea Party members on this critical issue?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

otter wrote:

You don't know how I live. I am a good steward of the planet. But not because I believe in non-sense.

Do you drive a car or ride a bus or catch a car ride with friends? Yeah, you do. What do you do to help preserve the beautiful planet? Besides belittle those who don't go along with your beliefs and sitting around feeling depressed about phony global warming? Nothing right, that's is?

You go talk to polar bears see what that gets you...you won't understand their language then they'll eat you sport.

ah, the ultimate cop-out. "I don't have to believe in it because those that do I deem hypocrites!". Actually, riding the bus and catching a ride with friends is called being responsible. Way more environmentally responsible than some schmuck riding alone in his 8 ton tank down the street to 7-11. I ride my bike when I can, I take the bus to work, I walk home, etc etc. that being said, not everyone is able to contribute in the same ways. some have no choice but to drive to work alone in a large vehicle (ex: construction worker who lives out of town and has to take his kids to and from daycare-can't carpool with anyone else). But you can be responsible in other ways too.

I'd like to see one person who thinks the environment is fine like otter, just ONE, treat their home like the average citizen treats the earth and see if it's still acceptable to live that way.