Criticism of MYM because of religious beliefs

unforgiven

I actually find the criticism of MYM because of religious beliefs interesting. I have seen people say that the song is an attack on peoples beliefs. I don't really agree with this line of thought. I do believe that the song criticises the machine that religion has become. Christianity and religion has a lot to be ashamed of, Child sex abuse cover ups as an example. I believe this song attacks the religious organisations that allowed such things to happen. I think this is highlighted in the line "what they take is more than a vow, they've taken your innocence and then they throw them on a burning pile"

This song is extremely well written and I am proud that it is a Pearl Jam song.

pdalowsky

really people are complaining about the lyrics of a rock band?

I hadn't seen that and that really surprises me.

Spiritual_Chaos

unforgiven wrote:

I actually find the criticism of MYM because of religious beliefs interesting. I have seen people say that the song is an attack on peoples beliefs. I don't really agree with this line of thought. I do believe that the song criticises the machine that religion has become. Christianity and religion has a lot to be ashamed of, Child sex abuse cover ups as an example. I believe this song attacks the religious organisations that allowed such things to happen. I think this is highlighted in the line "what they take is more than a vow, they've taken your innocence and then they throw them on a burning pile"

This song is extremely well written and I am proud that it is a Pearl Jam song.

This is pretty obvious.

But I think artists, thinkers, Pearl Jam should start "attacking" relgious beliefs. We will not move forward in our progress and thinking if that is not cracked open and stopped being tip-toed around.

But ofc PJ are talking about the instiution and Not peoples personal relationship with God.

Soulfire42

Sort of an alternate way of looking at things is that religion has gotten a free pass for far too long and far too many people are willing to sacrifice this world and people's lives for promises of rewards in an afterlife. One way of looking at is that way too many people are willing to truly harm other people like gays that they know and know are real at the expense of honoring something they've never seen and can't prove is even real.

I think people critiquing this song based on its anti-religious content is fine. People can dislike the lyrics and subject matter if they want. For way too long we've all been told to "mind our own manners" (and I'm not saying that's how the lyric is meant to be taken) and that it is poor etiquette to question religion or to discuss politics, etc. Enough of that. If people's feelings get hurt, so be it. People's hurt feelings or threats of hurt feelings cannot be allowed to stand as a shield preventing critique or to dismiss the harms that religious belief can cause.

I think Ed (or whoever ended up writing these lyrics) is quite fine with some people having hurt feelings about the lyrics if it also means that a light is reaching the subject matter the song deals with. It's time for some questions, some reevaluation and a lack of concern for people's feelings which they expect to be protected by other people having to remain silent. In my opinion, a song like this was sorely missing on Backspacer. It has an edge, it has a point and it is relevant to the times we're living in.

Anyway, this is about to derail into something the mods would probably prefer

dmaradona10

Rock music has always been about questioning the established order, and what is more established than the 2,000 year old Catholic church? If someone wants to listen to good Rock music with depth than they should expect music that questions our society whether it be political or social. I don't agree with every stance that Pearl Jam has made, the gun issue being one of them, but I will still listen to and enjoy glorified g. I'm not going to agree with everything that Eddie Vedder has to say about religion or whether or not there is a God etc...but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop listening to his music or his opinions.

whispering hands

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

I actually find the criticism of MYM because of religious beliefs interesting. I have seen people say that the song is an attack on peoples beliefs. I don't really agree with this line of thought. I do believe that the song criticises the machine that religion has become. Christianity and religion has a lot to be ashamed of, Child sex abuse cover ups as an example. I believe this song attacks the religious organisations that allowed such things to happen. I think this is highlighted in the line "what they take is more than a vow, they've taken your innocence and then they throw them on a burning pile"

This song is extremely well written and I am proud that it is a Pearl Jam song.

This is pretty obvious.

But I think artists, thinkers, Pearl Jam should start "attacking" relgious beliefs. We will not move forward in our progress and thinking if that is not cracked open and stopped being tip-toed around.

But ofc PJ are talking about the instiution and Not peoples personal relationship with God.

This

unforgiven

Soulfire42 wrote:

Sort of an alternate way of looking at things is that religion has gotten a free pass for far too long and far too many people are willing to sacrifice this world and people's lives for promises of rewards in an afterlife. One way of looking at is that way too many people are willing to truly harm other people like gays that they know and know are real at the expense of honoring something they've never seen and can't prove is even real.

I think people critiquing this song based on its anti-religious content is fine. People can dislike the lyrics and subject matter if they want. For way too long we've all been told to "mind our own manners" (and I'm not saying that's how the lyric is meant to be taken) and that it is poor etiquette to question religion or to discuss politics, etc. Enough of that. If people's feelings get hurt, so be it. People's hurt feelings or threats of hurt feelings cannot be allowed to stand as a shield preventing critique or to dismiss the harms that religious belief can cause.

I think Ed (or whoever ended up writing these lyrics) is quite fine with some people having hurt feelings about the lyrics if it also means that a light is reaching the subject matter the song deals with. It's time for some questions, some reevaluation and a lack of concern for people's feelings which they expect to be protected by other people having to remain silent. In my opinion, a song like this was sorely missing on Backspacer. It has an edge, it has a point and it is relevant to the times we're living in.

Anyway, this is about to derail into something the mods would probably prefer

I really like this post. I agree with you fully, I actually find most religions to be highly hypocritical. They are happy to question other peoples beliefs but get very offended when other question what they believe in. I love the spotlight that this song shines on organised religion.

pdalowsky

Soulfire42 wrote:

Sort of an alternate way of looking at things is that religion has gotten a free pass for far too long and far too many people are willing to sacrifice this world and people's lives for promises of rewards in an afterlife. One way of looking at is that way too many people are willing to truly harm other people like gays that they know and know are real at the expense of honoring something they've never seen and can't prove is even real.

I think people critiquing this song based on its anti-religious content is fine. People can dislike the lyrics and subject matter if they want. For way too long we've all been told to "mind our own manners" (and I'm not saying that's how the lyric is meant to be taken) and that it is poor etiquette to question religion or to discuss politics, etc. Enough of that. If people's feelings get hurt, so be it. People's hurt feelings or threats of hurt feelings cannot be allowed to stand as a shield preventing critique or to dismiss the harms that religious belief can cause.

I think Ed (or whoever ended up writing these lyrics) is quite fine with some people having hurt feelings about the lyrics if it also means that a light is reaching the subject matter the song deals with. It's time for some questions, some reevaluation and a lack of concern for people's feelings which they expect to be protected by other people having to remain silent. In my opinion, a song like this was sorely missing on Backspacer. It has an edge, it has a point and it is relevant to the times we're living in.

Anyway, this is about to derail into something the mods would probably prefer

nicely said

ckravitz

Killing in God's name
But God is nowhere
To be found, conveniently

....


It's not like MYM is the first or biggest indictment if religion in their catalog.

I actually find the timing of the song interesting given world events. Oftentimes, because it is close to home, we associate religious critique with scandals such as the cover ups that are close to home. But abroad, particularly in the last few years, there has been war and revolution in several countries that were motivated by religion.

rr165892

Religion when abused is the cause of most war,death and hatred in history.I love a shot across the bow.So what if a few are offended.

dirtyT

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

I actually find the criticism of MYM because of religious beliefs interesting. I have seen people say that the song is an attack on peoples beliefs. I don't really agree with this line of thought. I do believe that the song criticises the machine that religion has become. Christianity and religion has a lot to be ashamed of, Child sex abuse cover ups as an example. I believe this song attacks the religious organisations that allowed such things to happen. I think this is highlighted in the line "what they take is more than a vow, they've taken your innocence and then they throw them on a burning pile"

This song is extremely well written and I am proud that it is a Pearl Jam song.

This is pretty obvious.

But I think artists, thinkers, Pearl Jam should start "attacking" relgious beliefs. We will not move forward in our progress and thinking if that is not cracked open and stopped being tip-toed around.

But ofc PJ are talking about the instiution and Not peoples personal relationship with God.

I think you are spot on...it is an attack of the overall world of religion. I by no means think Eddie is very religious, but I also do not think he is so close minded to the idea that he would attack people who believe in God or even God himself. For me, questioning and attacking people's religious beliefs is just as ignorant as racism and homophobic comments/issues. That shit if for people like Marilyn Manson; Eddie and Pearl Jam are better and beyond that as musicians and I would dare say as humans as well.That shit if for people like Marilyn Manson; Eddie and Pearl Jam are better and beyond that as musicians and I would dare say as humans as well. So in turn, people on hear who want to attack a man/bands opinion/questions are just as bad as the points they are trying to make in their arguments.

You look at bands like Tool and NIN who lyrics about religion, at least to me, come off more as angry and agnst against....when I think of PJ songs about religion, I simply hear them more in a questioning, non-offensive state. Just my opinion and take.

know1

ckravitz wrote:

Killing in God's name
But God is nowhere
To be found, conveniently

....


It's not like MYM is the first or biggest indictment if religion in their catalog.

I actually find the timing of the song interesting given world events. Oftentimes, because it is close to home, we associate religious critique with scandals such as the cover ups that are close to home. But abroad, particularly in the last few years, there has been war and revolution in several countries that were motivated by religion.

See I take those lines to mean that the people doing the killing aren't really religious. They just claim to be.

cp3iverson

as long as Ed isn't mocking people's religious beliefs than the song is fine by me. I picture PJ as a band that's open minded to anything. If they're railing against a bad section of Christianity then that's okay. Every huge group has bad sections (Dems, Repubs, Christians, Muslims, etc.)

Spags

...10c

grazman

I think the song is attacking religion and those who tell people if you don't believe in God you will burn in hell etc. Fine by me I like a good 'athiest' song.

maki_j

Ed is not religious at all and questions organized religion and our concept of "god" in tons of songs. But I would also say he is spiritual at some level... Totally love the song. This is one reason I love the band... Question and never accept.

Ever wonder what really happens to your prayers folks??

"It echoes. Nobody hears, it goes, it goes, it goes.
Like echoes. Nobody hears, it goes, it goes, it goes..."

cincybearcat

Yeah, I love this song so far. Love the lyrics. It's clearly against the organized religion machine and those in charge. And I really like the honest/modest songwriting in regards to having the answer (just like Marker in the Sand). Not claiming to know everything or know the solution, just pointing out the extreme wrongs and knowing that they are wrongs.

Loving the lyrics, loving the song. Love this version on Pearl Jam.

PureandEasy

I'll admit, when I first heard it, I was a little like, WTF? Being raised a catholic, it did take me back a bit, but then I listened again, read the words and realize it's not critizing people with faith.

cp3iverson

If it's attacking an everyday citizen's choice of faith then that would be very closed minded of Ed. If it's attacking Christian extremists or Muslim extremists? Then that would be very awesome of Ed. I think it's the latter.

Fighting Hellfish

ckravitz wrote:

Killing in God's name
But God is nowhere
To be found, conveniently

....


It's not like MYM is the first or biggest indictment if religion in their catalog.

I actually find the timing of the song interesting given world events. Oftentimes, because it is close to home, we associate religious critique with scandals such as the cover ups that are close to home. But abroad, particularly in the last few years, there has been war and revolution in several countries that were motivated by religion.

I tink you can go back even further, to Cropduster. I always interpreted that song to being about there not being a god.

I was the fool
because I thought
I thought the world

turns out
the world thought me

Spiritual_Chaos

cp3iverson wrote:

If it's attacking an everyday citizen's choice of faith then that would be very closed minded of Ed. If it's attacking Christian extremists or Muslim extremists? Then that would be very awesome of Ed. I think it's the latter.

Why?

Faith is not a holy cow.

If Eddie would have felt that people who sit at home praying before dinner or before going to sleep and are believeing in some fantasy created by man are loons. I'd say go for it Eddie, write a song about that.

know1

What about the line:

"Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves"?

Couldn't that be interpreted as saying there is a god?

JK_Livin

rr165892 wrote:

Religion when abused is the cause of most war,death and hatred in history.I love a shot across the bow.So what if a few are offended.

This. Religion is the root of all evil from the beginning of time. It's fine to have beliefs and faith but for the most part religion is used as a weapon.

Are the lyrics posted anywhere?

dirtyT

know1 wrote:

What about the line:

"Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves"?

Couldn't that be interpreted as saying there is a god?

Right....also...

I can like I have a soul that has been saved...

another lyric that can be taken as him saying/believing in God...

Again, I don't think he is so close minded to mock people's beliefs on spirtuality...

grazman

know1 wrote:

What about the line:

"Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves"?

Couldn't that be interpreted as saying there is a god?

Or maybe the giant spaghetti monster . My interpretation is we don't know all the answers to everything, there may be a God, there may not be a God, who knows! Religious people seem to know.

Stephen Flow

The lyrics are an attack on religious hypocrisy...

Here is one example...

"What they take is more than a vow" (priests taking a vow when they enter priesthood, for example)
"They take your innocence and they throw it on a burning pile" (Sex scandals in the Catholic church come to mind here).

So they do these evil things and....

"All along they're saying Mind Your Manners"

Also, the lyrics don't indicate not believing in God... maybe questioning his existence in the line:

"I caught myself believing that I needed God... and if he's out there somewhere we sure could use him now"

cp3iverson

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

cp3iverson wrote:

If it's attacking an everyday citizen's choice of faith then that would be very closed minded of Ed. If it's attacking Christian extremists or Muslim extremists? Then that would be very awesome of Ed. I think it's the latter.

Why?

Faith is not a holy cow.

If Eddie would have felt that people who sit at home praying before dinner or before going to sleep and are believeing in some fantasy created by man are loons. I'd say go for it Eddie, write a song about that.

Because none of us will ever know what's true and what's false so if someone wants to worship a rock and it helps him live a decent everyday life then we should let him do that and not mock him for it.

In life you respect all views until they become hurtful. Extremists telling you that you're burning in hell or this and that are definitely hurtful. The everyday Muslim or Christian? Not so much. They're just living their life, occasionally using their faith as a path. I think (hope) Ed would be fine with the everyday folks. Good song.

bootlegger10

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

cp3iverson wrote:

If it's attacking an everyday citizen's choice of faith then that would be very closed minded of Ed. If it's attacking Christian extremists or Muslim extremists? Then that would be very awesome of Ed. I think it's the latter.

Why?

Faith is not a holy cow.

If Eddie would have felt that people who sit at home praying before dinner or before going to sleep and are believeing in some fantasy created by man are loons. I'd say go for it Eddie, write a song about that.

I would say it as much a stretch to believe in God as it is to believe we all came from some particles. At the end of the day we all believe something that hasn't been proven yet. There are theories, some better than others, but still theories. Ed doesn't need to insult good people (not saying he is in this song).

Take down those who let crimes happen, great, but not individuals who have nothing to do with people that committed those crimes or accept those crimes. I would bet 99.8% of Christians would have stood up against sex abuse in the clergy if they knew about it. The other .2% were protecting their positions which is more about greed and power.

asgoodased

You all act like attacking religion is new...if you watch/listen to popular media (music, tv, movies, etc), I would say about 95% of "believers" are evil or terrible people in such meidums. It's become cliche. Ed should sing/write what he wants, I'm just bored with it now, personally.

Black Diamond

Forget MYM, just check out the logo for Lightening Bolt for some religious pimp slapping.

sparky_fry

This should read: "Criticism of religious beliefs because of MYM" Why do religious beliefs to the criticizing? That's what the song is about no?