I just find the whole thing incredible. They need to sort their differences out or just split. I was lucky enough to see them just before the postponed a bunch of dates in November and it was a great gig but I've really got no desire for this new album whilst they continue to do whatever this is. They haven't spoke in 8 months but have a new album out, how does that even work? I can only see the album being a major letdown.
I feel the opposite. Their music is so dark, that I feel like their emotions about this whole thing will be poured into this album and it will be pretty damn good. I have liked the first single, and the studio version of "From This Valley" is pretty good too, but as with pretty much all their music, it's better live. I feel like they captured that live feel with that song pretty well too.
The version of From this Valley on the new album will be a different recording. I haven't heard it yet but I just read that is is on Spotify.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
im pumped for album 2 out in a few weeks. The One That Got Away is intense.
I still dont understand what the hell happened with and between John Paul and Joy. Like I said, I followed these guys from the start. 2 people not married to each other, but really good friends. Band is managed by Joys husband, and John Paul seems to get along with both of them. John Paul and Joy found stardom later in life, and their "rock star tantrums" seemed behind them. As recently as a few months prior to the album being announced both were on the radio in interview talking about that the path was clear. They would make the follow up an album they wanted. Not what a label wanted.
Then suddenly something happened. Had to have been something pretty epic. Joy in that NPR story seemed to suggest the "one that got away" song is about "someone you wish you had never met". The implications that she was referring to John Paul seemed clear as day.
The NPR article talked about problems between John Paul and Joy, that it had always been there. I would beg to differ. They never seemed anything other than really good friends. I never sensed tension at all.
I really dont get what happened. As far as I was concerned, from the time I became aware of the band, until the rumors of the tension, I hadnt seen them acting in any way rude with one another.
Im sort of wondering if one of them made a move on the other, even though both are married to other people.
As I said, I dont know how else to explain it. They seemed so on track and in sync in terms of sound, and vision, months prior, then all of a sudden something happened.
John Paul and Joy both made it sound like from day 1, they met in some songwriters camp or retreat, and from day 1, they were completely in sync musicially and vision wise. John Paul has referenced their meeting being destiny or fate.
Would people who feel like that, really just one day differ on musical direction and sound?
Im sort of wondering if one of them made a move on the other, even though both are married to other people.
As I said, I dont know how else to explain it. They seemed so on track and in sync in terms of sound, and vision, months prior, then all of a sudden something happened.
John Paul and Joy both made it sound like from day 1, they met in some songwriters camp or retreat, and from day 1, they were completely in sync musicially and vision wise. John Paul has referenced their meeting being destiny or fate.
Would people who feel like that, really just one day differ on musical direction and sound?
I think something else happened.
John Paul has not spoken publicly, or appeared at any event since the split. Joy has. I was reading their facebook page a while back and someone commented about how it seems like John Paul was the one who didn't want anything to do with the civil wars or something to that effect and the civil wars page (run by joy/husband I guess) liked that status. In Joy's recent interview, she said she hadn't spoken to John Paul in 8 months or so, but that she wouldn't know what the future of the band was until she spoke with him.
So something happened to John Paul to make him want to basically disappear from the band. Since the split, I have wondered if one of them made the move on the other or maybe John Paul started having feelings for her and felt uncomfortable?? It's all speculation really. Maybe he felt Joy was getting preferential treatment in musical decisions since her husband is their manager? Really could be any number of things. I'm with you though..I would have never guessed this hiatus was coming.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
thats precisely my point. It seems like both of them are extremely hurt. Joy was crying in that interview. maybe John paul more so is hurt, like you suggest. I am wondering how, if it was a direction of the band issue, why that would be something that would cause such STRONG and INTENSE feelings.
As I said, the NPR promo for the album, and the video for the first single on the new album, its quite clear they have severe problems with one another. Their behavior in the video even though they are singing close to one another, just their body language, its clear this isnt the same Joy and John Paul from 2011 in the Barton Hollow video. The Joy quote in the promo was clearly aimed at John paul. And the lyrics of the new song are clearly about the thing that happened, whatever that is. Joy made it sound like, and she said it verbatim, that she wished she had never met John Paul. Do people really do that if one of them disagrees about the direction or sound of the band?
I did read that interview with Joy, and it made it sound like Joys husband actually offered an idea of what was going on.
He mentioned the fact that he, as manager, his wife Joy, and their new child were all together on the tour traveling and pushing for the band to do more tours, do more press. John paul, has had to leave his wife and kids, they dont or cant come on tour, and I guess thats caused some serious issues. That very well may be the driving issue at work. Joy wanted to get the band going and having ambtiion, and John paul wanting to take it as it comes, and to spend time with his family etc... It seemed inferred that Joy wanted to expand the band's visibility, while John Paul, may have wanted that too, but the long amount of time spent not around his family was something that was causing alot of stress and strife
and actually that theory does seem to make sense. It would explain why John paul is more pissed off than Joy. And would also explain why John Paul threw that line in during the grammy speech about telling his wife he would "not be around much" if the band hit it big.
I could see John paul saying to Joy, we need to slow down, and I miss my wife and kids. And Joy saying, I want to push this band and get bigger, and her feeling like the arrangement was working out fine. Because it does sound like she had the better end of the deal having her entire family along for the entire tour. It was John paul who was forced to give up something he values.
Thanks! I'm listening now. It's also streaming on iTunes. The Guardian link said it wasn't available in my location.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
I'm streaming it on iTunes. I'm really enjoying it, although it is much more melancholy than the first album. I mean, it's surpassed Sade levels of melancholy. Nevertheless, their beautiful voices and guitar are still there, so the album is growing on me more and more.
I started listening to their new album today. I'm only a few songs in, but it's not bad
www.RLMcDaniel.com
1996: Ft Lauderdale
1998: Birmingham
2000: Charlotte, Tampa
2003: Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix
2004: Kissimmee
2008: West Palm Beach, Bonnaroo, Columbia
2010: MSG2
2012: Music Midtown
2014: Memphis
2016: Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville, JazzFest 2018: Wrigley 1, Fenway 1 2022: Nashville 2023: Ft. Worth II
the npr interview from a few days ago with joy seems to suggest the fight between joy and john paul revolved around Joy wanting to continue touring and going and going, and john paul missing his wife and kids and wanting to take time off. With Joy's husband as manager, and her bringing her son on tour, makes sense that she would feel like things were going well since she really wasnt forced to give anything up. John paul was forced to give up time with his family. Sounds like Joy didnt want to stop the pace of the band, and John Paul did. She talked about how she views ambition as a very important trait, especially for a woman, to have. So evidently, thats what the fight is about.
the npr interview from a few days ago with joy seems to suggest the fight between joy and john paul revolved around Joy wanting to continue touring and going and going, and john paul missing his wife and kids and wanting to take time off. With Joy's husband as manager, and her bringing her son on tour, makes sense that she would feel like things were going well since she really wasnt forced to give anything up. John paul was forced to give up time with his family. Sounds like Joy didnt want to stop the pace of the band, and John Paul did. She talked about how she views ambition as a very important trait, especially for a woman, to have. So evidently, thats what the fight is about.
That makes sense and also seems to fit with their statement when the band canceled it's tour. I wouldn't be surprised if there were also other personality conflicts that got in the way as well. Still hoping they can works things out. Based on what we've read, it seems like the ball is in John Paul's court now. Joy appears willing to want to work things out and a band that does less touring and records less music is still a band so it would seem they should be able to come to some sort of a compromise if John wanted to take it slow. Will be interesting to see whether or not he decides to come back at all. He has 4 kids so I can't blame him for wanting to make up for lost time with him family. Seems like they were on a whirlwind for 2 years.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
What does everyone think of the new album? I've listened to it a few times and am really enjoying it, but I don't like how low in the mix John Paul seems on most of the songs. I almost have to remind myself it's not a Joy solo album while listening. He's still there, and some songs feature him more than others, but in others I can barely hear his voice. I listened to some B sides this morning after listening through the album and the difference in the mix is like night and day. Other than that, I think the songs are great and still hope that there is more to come.
Favorites so far (in the order they appear on the album) are: The one that got away, I had me a girl, Same old same old, Devil's backbone, and From this valley.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
I dont know if I totally agree. Joy doesnt appear as pissed off as John paul but who knows what goes on when the cameras arent there. As I said, theres a promo for the One That Got Away video, and Joy appears on it. And she says "this song is about someone you wish you never had met". That aint mincing words or beating around the bush.
I dont know Joy or John Paul and all we have are a few interviews and her side of the story. But I dont get the sense she, even now, understands why John Paul would want to stay and be with his family. As I said, she explicitly referenced ambition as being a trait all women should have, and she mentioned that John Paul is staying with his family at the moment, then said something like "thats whats good for him right now". A backhanded compliment of sorts.
I dont get the sense from what Ive read, that she really understands his side of the story. And why would she. Her touring situation sounds ideal. Look at the Grammy Speech by John Paul, he specifically mentions stuff about his wife and telling her "if this was successful I told you I wasnt going to be around much". Seems a clear jab at Joy.
I get the sense after Barton Hallow and the success came, Joy wanted to keep going, making music, and touring. John Paul wanted to take it slow, and be with his family.
I dont see that dynamic and situation as changing.
i dont get the sense Joy wants to work things out.
I dont think she wants to take it easy and tour less and record less. I think thats clearly what drove them apart. As I said, I dont see that changing any time soon.
I dont think there really is a compromise. You have two completely similar sensibilities and personalities as far as the melodies and music itself go. But, when it comes to other issues like family, touring, how the band should be run, I think Joy and John Paul couldnt be any more dissimilar
Comments
I still dont understand what the hell happened with and between John Paul and Joy. Like I said, I followed these guys from the start. 2 people not married to each other, but really good friends. Band is managed by Joys husband, and John Paul seems to get along with both of them. John Paul and Joy found stardom later in life, and their "rock star tantrums" seemed behind them. As recently as a few months prior to the album being announced both were on the radio in interview talking about that the path was clear. They would make the follow up an album they wanted. Not what a label wanted.
Then suddenly something happened. Had to have been something pretty epic. Joy in that NPR story seemed to suggest the "one that got away" song is about "someone you wish you had never met". The implications that she was referring to John Paul seemed clear as day.
The NPR article talked about problems between John Paul and Joy, that it had always been there. I would beg to differ. They never seemed anything other than really good friends. I never sensed tension at all.
I really dont get what happened. As far as I was concerned, from the time I became aware of the band, until the rumors of the tension, I hadnt seen them acting in any way rude with one another.
As I said, I dont know how else to explain it. They seemed so on track and in sync in terms of sound, and vision, months prior, then all of a sudden something happened.
John Paul and Joy both made it sound like from day 1, they met in some songwriters camp or retreat, and from day 1, they were completely in sync musicially and vision wise. John Paul has referenced their meeting being destiny or fate.
Would people who feel like that, really just one day differ on musical direction and sound?
I think something else happened.
John Paul has not spoken publicly, or appeared at any event since the split. Joy has. I was reading their facebook page a while back and someone commented about how it seems like John Paul was the one who didn't want anything to do with the civil wars or something to that effect and the civil wars page (run by joy/husband I guess) liked that status. In Joy's recent interview, she said she hadn't spoken to John Paul in 8 months or so, but that she wouldn't know what the future of the band was until she spoke with him.
So something happened to John Paul to make him want to basically disappear from the band. Since the split, I have wondered if one of them made the move on the other or maybe John Paul started having feelings for her and felt uncomfortable?? It's all speculation really. Maybe he felt Joy was getting preferential treatment in musical decisions since her husband is their manager? Really could be any number of things. I'm with you though..I would have never guessed this hiatus was coming.
As I said, the NPR promo for the album, and the video for the first single on the new album, its quite clear they have severe problems with one another. Their behavior in the video even though they are singing close to one another, just their body language, its clear this isnt the same Joy and John Paul from 2011 in the Barton Hollow video. The Joy quote in the promo was clearly aimed at John paul. And the lyrics of the new song are clearly about the thing that happened, whatever that is. Joy made it sound like, and she said it verbatim, that she wished she had never met John Paul. Do people really do that if one of them disagrees about the direction or sound of the band?
I did read that interview with Joy, and it made it sound like Joys husband actually offered an idea of what was going on.
He mentioned the fact that he, as manager, his wife Joy, and their new child were all together on the tour traveling and pushing for the band to do more tours, do more press. John paul, has had to leave his wife and kids, they dont or cant come on tour, and I guess thats caused some serious issues. That very well may be the driving issue at work. Joy wanted to get the band going and having ambtiion, and John paul wanting to take it as it comes, and to spend time with his family etc... It seemed inferred that Joy wanted to expand the band's visibility, while John Paul, may have wanted that too, but the long amount of time spent not around his family was something that was causing alot of stress and strife
I could see John paul saying to Joy, we need to slow down, and I miss my wife and kids. And Joy saying, I want to push this band and get bigger, and her feeling like the arrangement was working out fine. Because it does sound like she had the better end of the deal having her entire family along for the entire tour. It was John paul who was forced to give up something he values.
http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicb ... bum-stream
Thanks! I'm listening now. It's also streaming on iTunes. The Guardian link said it wasn't available in my location.
1996: Ft Lauderdale
1998: Birmingham
2000: Charlotte, Tampa
2003: Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix
2004: Kissimmee
2008: West Palm Beach, Bonnaroo, Columbia
2010: MSG2
2012: Music Midtown
2014: Memphis
2018: Wrigley 1, Fenway 1
2022: Nashville
2023: Ft. Worth II
That makes sense and also seems to fit with their statement when the band canceled it's tour. I wouldn't be surprised if there were also other personality conflicts that got in the way as well. Still hoping they can works things out. Based on what we've read, it seems like the ball is in John Paul's court now. Joy appears willing to want to work things out and a band that does less touring and records less music is still a band so it would seem they should be able to come to some sort of a compromise if John wanted to take it slow. Will be interesting to see whether or not he decides to come back at all. He has 4 kids so I can't blame him for wanting to make up for lost time with him family. Seems like they were on a whirlwind for 2 years.
Favorites so far (in the order they appear on the album) are: The one that got away, I had me a girl, Same old same old, Devil's backbone, and From this valley.
I dont know Joy or John Paul and all we have are a few interviews and her side of the story. But I dont get the sense she, even now, understands why John Paul would want to stay and be with his family. As I said, she explicitly referenced ambition as being a trait all women should have, and she mentioned that John Paul is staying with his family at the moment, then said something like "thats whats good for him right now". A backhanded compliment of sorts.
I dont get the sense from what Ive read, that she really understands his side of the story. And why would she. Her touring situation sounds ideal. Look at the Grammy Speech by John Paul, he specifically mentions stuff about his wife and telling her "if this was successful I told you I wasnt going to be around much". Seems a clear jab at Joy.
I get the sense after Barton Hallow and the success came, Joy wanted to keep going, making music, and touring. John Paul wanted to take it slow, and be with his family.
I dont see that dynamic and situation as changing.
I dont think she wants to take it easy and tour less and record less. I think thats clearly what drove them apart. As I said, I dont see that changing any time soon.
I dont think there really is a compromise. You have two completely similar sensibilities and personalities as far as the melodies and music itself go. But, when it comes to other issues like family, touring, how the band should be run, I think Joy and John Paul couldnt be any more dissimilar