But how do you go about arresting these american citizens that are now living amongst Alqueda without putting American forces in dangerous situations ? ..
But how do you go about arresting these american citizens that are now living amongst Alqueda without putting American forces in dangerous situations ? ..
Good question.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I don't know if it is even legal but a revocation of their citizenship could be a possibility, otherwise you try them in absentia.
You don't just assassinate them.
Let's be very clear this is millions of times worse than the Bush administration waterboarding, and I remember most of you here had a shitfit about that. Don't lower your standards for what is right and just.
I don't know if it is even legal but a revocation of their citizenship could be a possibility, otherwise you try them in absentia.
You don't just assassinate them.
Let's be very clear this is millions of times worse than the Bush administration waterboarding, and I remember most of you here had a shitfit about that. Don't lower your standards for what is right and just.
I agree with your assesment of trying them or revocation of citisenship but that would not stop them from carrying out acts of terror ...
I agree with your assesment of trying them or revocation of citisenship but that would not stop them from carrying out acts of terror ...
But that wasn't the issue. The issue is following the Constitution and not allowing ANY President to become King. Targeted assassination of US Citizens is grounds for impeachment.
What happens if Dick Cheney became President and wanted to do the same thing?
I don't know if it is even legal but a revocation of their citizenship could be a possibility, otherwise you try them in absentia.
You don't just assassinate them.
Let's be very clear this is millions of times worse than the Bush administration waterboarding, and I remember most of you here had a shitfit about that. Don't lower your standards for what is right and just.
First "most" wanted to impeach Bush and then "most of you had a shitfit about" waterboarding. Even assuming both of those statements are true, understand that not all of us shared those views. I never wanted to impeach Bush and I understand why it was decided waterboarding was necessary. And I also understand why this is necessary.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Note To Self: Reminder to pass on that scheduled Holiday in the tribal regions of Pakistan.
end...
...
P.S. Cancel annual physical exam appointment with Dr. Al Kieda, too. Can never be TOO safe.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
If the government wants to assassinate Americans that support al-Qaeda they can start with themselves for arming the al-Qaeda linked rebels in Libya and Syria.
how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?
Waitaminute! I thought we had no reason to fear government? I was told I had no reason to need an AR if I wanted to defend myself? I was told tyranny doesn't exist.
But I agree with you 100% on the drones. I don't want them flying over this country. Every bomb they drop on another country is an act of war.
If Bush were doing it you'd all be screaming for impeachment. Heck I bet most of you did. What has changed your minds that it is now acceptable?
last time i am telling you this. an ar 15 vs a drone, vs a swat team, vs an army unit is going to do you zero good. they are gonna bring bigger guns than your lousy ar 15.
i think that this is an impeachable offense. we all have a right to due process, and these drones are summary executions. nothing more. if this is the new policy of the united states, i would be the first to vote to impeach obama.
this again proves to me that we have lost the war on terror. bin laden has won. look at the attitude of americans these days that are willing to allow a president to murder americans at will and without penalty.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
With the kidnapper, they went in to get the kid and the safest thing to do for the kid and the officers is to kill the guy. You really upset about that? Honestly?
they went in to murder the kidnapper. the policeman on tv essentially said so.
the point is not whether or not i am upset that the kidnapper got killed, i am upset that they did not attempt to disarm him. they went in guns a blazin, and i think that is wrong.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Let's be very clear this is millions of times worse than the Bush administration waterboarding, and I remember most of you here had a shitfit about that. Don't lower your standards for what is right and just.
Come on buddy, skipping right to waterboarding as to why people hated Bush. Try starting from the beginning when Saudi "terrorists" knocked down a couple of buildings and then he by some weird stretch of anybody's imagination, decided to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on and so on and so on and so on and then some water torture. Anyway do you people down there really think it is about who is in charge and can't see or neglect to see it is run the exact same way with foreign affairs. Not that it dosen't show by the pettiness on the board and the allegiance to one party for your entire lives.
So what makes Obama any different from Bush? The party!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?
Waitaminute! I thought we had no reason to fear government? I was told I had no reason to need an AR if I wanted to defend myself? I was told tyranny doesn't exist.
But I agree with you 100% on the drones. I don't want them flying over this country. Every bomb they drop on another country is an act of war.
If Bush were doing it you'd all be screaming for impeachment. Heck I bet most of you did. What has changed your minds that it is now acceptable?
last time i am telling you this. an ar 15 vs a drone, vs a swat team, vs an army unit is going to do you zero good. they are gonna bring bigger guns than your lousy ar 15.
i think that this is an impeachable offense. we all have a right to due process, and these drones are summary executions. nothing more. if this is the new policy of the united states, i would be the first to vote to impeach obama.
this again proves to me that we have lost the war on terror. bin laden has won. look at the attitude of americans these days that are willing to allow a president to murder americans at will and without penalty.
You are missing the point. Of course I know that an AR is no match for me to take on a drone, but what if this program expanded? What if the entire public had enough? At least 100M armed Americans might give them pause. A disarmed public would stand no chance. And it is happening. It hasn't happened here YET, but with the drone program combined with NDAA nothing stands in their way. Will Obama do it? Maybe, maybe not, but what about the next guy?
So go ahead a grandstand and say that it's the last time you're telling me something. In the meantime I'll continue to secure what's mine in the minute event that someday it could happen.
And today I'll be calling my Congressman to inquire about impeachment proceedings.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Let's be very clear this is millions of times worse than the Bush administration waterboarding, and I remember most of you here had a shitfit about that. Don't lower your standards for what is right and just.
Come on buddy, skipping right to waterboarding as to why people hated Bush. Try starting from the beginning when Saudi "terrorists" knocked down a couple of buildings and then he by some weird stretch of anybody's imagination, decided to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on and so on and so on and so on and then some water torture. Anyway do you people down there really think it is about who is in charge and can't see or neglect to see it is run the exact same way with foreign affairs. Not that it dosen't show by the pettiness on the board and the allegiance to one party for your entire lives.
So what makes Obama any different from Bush? The party!
I was using water boarding as an example of the outrage, I'm well versed on that clown.
And yeah some people realize that the two-party system has failed America.
Well. SOMEtimes they are.
(And let's not forget MLK if we are talking about police AND federal agents.yeesh)
Again, this doesn't happen everyday and that was the point I was rebutting. And in the case of Fred Hampton he was wounded, was still alive, and then a single police officer took it upon himself to commit murder. A terrible crime and I am not defending it in anyway. BUT...it does not constitute the government targeting someone for assassination.
If you have left the United States, have traveled to a war zone, have taken up league with our enemies, then your citizenship should be revoked. The problem is how long does that take once you are identified as being a threat? And how much damage can you do in the interim?
I understand why this is a concern. I personally trust this President to not abuse this power. I am sure someday soon we will have a President who I do not trust as much. If it is ever abused, that is when we as citizens should take action. That is when impeachment, a term tossed around so cavalierly by people on the right, should be on the table. Not before.
I understand why this is a concern. I personally trust this President to not abuse this power. I am sure someday soon we will have a President who I do not trust as much. If it is ever abused, that is when we as citizens should take action. That is when impeachment, a term tossed around so cavalierly by people on the right, should be on the table. Not before.
But we aren't giving the people we kill in the bomb strikes the same benefit of the doubt...we are simply trusting our gov't to tell us they were bad people without having to justify it. So we should wait until the power is abused to scream bloody murder it is too late.
Another angle would be how can this power be abused? if a person is a threat then they should be killed apparently...threat to who and what may vary...I just don't want any one person having the power to tell me which citizen lives and which one dies without the due process of law. That doesn't just go for our citizens really, but if rights are truly unalienable shouldn't they apply across the board?
Declared war is real and legal, undeclared bombings without intelligence of an imminent threat (self defense) seems wrong to me...As I said earlier, I don't feel sorry for people who take up arms, but things like this are why I think this undeclared war on an idealism is so dangerous...too many lines get blurred.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I understand why this is a concern. I personally trust this President to not abuse this power. I am sure someday soon we will have a President who I do not trust as much. If it is ever abused, that is when we as citizens should take action. That is when impeachment, a term tossed around so cavalierly by people on the right, should be on the table. Not before.
But we aren't giving the people we kill in the bomb strikes the same benefit of the doubt...we are simply trusting our gov't to tell us they were bad people without having to justify it. So we should wait until the power is abused to scream bloody murder it is too late.
Another angle would be how can this power be abused? if a person is a threat then they should be killed apparently...threat to who and what may vary...I just don't want any one person having the power to tell me which citizen lives and which one dies without the due process of law. That doesn't just go for our citizens really, but if rights are truly unalienable shouldn't they apply across the board?
Declared war is real and legal, undeclared bombings without intelligence of an imminent threat (self defense) seems wrong to me...As I said earlier, I don't feel sorry for people who take up arms, but things like this are why I think this undeclared war on an idealism is so dangerous...too many lines get blurred.
I don't think we should be giving these people the benefit of any doubt. I don't have, want or need access to daily intelligence reports. Instead I trust in the people who do.
And I agree, this is a slippery slope and the lines could get blurred. If they ever do, if this program ever begins to be used inside the continental US, if we are suddenly targeting drug dealers or political opponents, then we should act. Until then I have no problems with this.
Declared war is real and legal, undeclared bombings without intelligence of an imminent threat (self defense) seems wrong to me...As I said earlier, I don't feel sorry for people who take up arms, but things like this are why I think this undeclared war on an idealism is so dangerous...too many lines get blurred.
That is a problem with fighting an enemy that isn't a governing body of a nation. How are we to fight per the rule book when the enemy observes no rules whatsoever?
Declared war is real and legal, undeclared bombings without intelligence of an imminent threat (self defense) seems wrong to me...As I said earlier, I don't feel sorry for people who take up arms, but things like this are why I think this undeclared war on an idealism is so dangerous...too many lines get blurred.
That is a problem with fighting an enemy that isn't a governing body of a nation. How are we to fight per the rule book when the enemy observes no rules whatsoever?
figuring that out is what is supposed to make us better. It seems we aren't as concerned with figuring out how to fight a real war on an idea, we are only interested in blowing up those that carry the idea.
I don't propose it to be easy, and I don't propose to know exactly how to do it, but I know that this, drone assassination of citizens without due process, isn't the way.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
figuring that out is what is supposed to make us better. It seems we aren't as concerned with figuring out how to fight a real war on an idea, we are only interested in blowing up those that carry the idea.
I don't propose it to be easy, and I don't propose to know exactly how to do it, but I know that this, drone assassination of citizens without due process, isn't the way.
I think the US has figured out how to fight an idea. You kill those who are spreading the idea.
I think the US has figured out how to fight an idea. You kill those who are spreading the idea.
as much as I hate saying it, "how is that working out?"
even more than that, does that mean we will always be at war? when will we honestly be able to say, "there, got em all"
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I think the US has figured out how to fight an idea. You kill those who are spreading the idea.
as much as I hate saying it, "how is that working out?"
even more than that, does that mean we will always be at war? when will we honestly be able to say, "there, got em all"
This is a question I think about a lot but do not have an answer to. I don't know what victory looks like. To paraphrase some Aaron Sorkin dialogue, "is it the American flag flying over Mecca? And if it is, what are we waiting for?"
Now I don't think that is what victory looks like, but I couldn't tell you what it does look like.
Declared war is real and legal, undeclared bombings without intelligence of an imminent threat (self defense) seems wrong to me...As I said earlier, I don't feel sorry for people who take up arms, but things like this are why I think this undeclared war on an idealism is so dangerous...too many lines get blurred.
That is a problem with fighting an enemy that isn't a governing body of a nation. How are we to fight per the rule book when the enemy observes no rules whatsoever?
figuring that out is what is supposed to make us better. It seems we aren't as concerned with figuring out how to fight a real war on an idea, we are only interested in blowing up those that carry the idea.
I don't propose it to be easy, and I don't propose to know exactly how to do it, but I know that this, drone assassination of citizens without due process, isn't the way.
I disagree. If you don't adapt to the new rule, you lose. Just ask the old fighting lines of war when they faced gorilla warfare.
hippiemom = goodness
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
You don't assassinate American citizens without due process. Anyone that disagrees with that concept may as well disagree with society in general.
Comments
It might be time to begin talk of impeachment.
Good question.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
You don't just assassinate them.
Let's be very clear this is millions of times worse than the Bush administration waterboarding, and I remember most of you here had a shitfit about that. Don't lower your standards for what is right and just.
I agree with your assesment of trying them or revocation of citisenship but that would not stop them from carrying out acts of terror ...
http://thismodernworld.com/wp-content/u ... lowres.jpg
But that wasn't the issue. The issue is following the Constitution and not allowing ANY President to become King. Targeted assassination of US Citizens is grounds for impeachment.
What happens if Dick Cheney became President and wanted to do the same thing?
First "most" wanted to impeach Bush and then "most of you had a shitfit about" waterboarding. Even assuming both of those statements are true, understand that not all of us shared those views. I never wanted to impeach Bush and I understand why it was decided waterboarding was necessary. And I also understand why this is necessary.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
end...
...
P.S. Cancel annual physical exam appointment with Dr. Al Kieda, too. Can never be TOO safe.
Hail, Hail!!!
Fred Hampton assassinated by Chicago police
Well. SOMEtimes they are.
(And let's not forget MLK if we are talking about police AND federal agents.yeesh)
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i think that this is an impeachable offense. we all have a right to due process, and these drones are summary executions. nothing more. if this is the new policy of the united states, i would be the first to vote to impeach obama.
this again proves to me that we have lost the war on terror. bin laden has won. look at the attitude of americans these days that are willing to allow a president to murder americans at will and without penalty.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
the point is not whether or not i am upset that the kidnapper got killed, i am upset that they did not attempt to disarm him. they went in guns a blazin, and i think that is wrong.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Come on buddy, skipping right to waterboarding as to why people hated Bush. Try starting from the beginning when Saudi "terrorists" knocked down a couple of buildings and then he by some weird stretch of anybody's imagination, decided to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on and so on and so on and so on and then some water torture. Anyway do you people down there really think it is about who is in charge and can't see or neglect to see it is run the exact same way with foreign affairs. Not that it dosen't show by the pettiness on the board and the allegiance to one party for your entire lives.
So what makes Obama any different from Bush? The party!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
You are missing the point. Of course I know that an AR is no match for me to take on a drone, but what if this program expanded? What if the entire public had enough? At least 100M armed Americans might give them pause. A disarmed public would stand no chance. And it is happening. It hasn't happened here YET, but with the drone program combined with NDAA nothing stands in their way. Will Obama do it? Maybe, maybe not, but what about the next guy?
So go ahead a grandstand and say that it's the last time you're telling me something. In the meantime I'll continue to secure what's mine in the minute event that someday it could happen.
And today I'll be calling my Congressman to inquire about impeachment proceedings.
I was using water boarding as an example of the outrage, I'm well versed on that clown.
And yeah some people realize that the two-party system has failed America.
Says the only person I have read or heard proudly announce which Republican they are going to support in 2016. :roll:
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Again, this doesn't happen everyday and that was the point I was rebutting. And in the case of Fred Hampton he was wounded, was still alive, and then a single police officer took it upon himself to commit murder. A terrible crime and I am not defending it in anyway. BUT...it does not constitute the government targeting someone for assassination.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I understand why this is a concern. I personally trust this President to not abuse this power. I am sure someday soon we will have a President who I do not trust as much. If it is ever abused, that is when we as citizens should take action. That is when impeachment, a term tossed around so cavalierly by people on the right, should be on the table. Not before.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
But we aren't giving the people we kill in the bomb strikes the same benefit of the doubt...we are simply trusting our gov't to tell us they were bad people without having to justify it. So we should wait until the power is abused to scream bloody murder it is too late.
Another angle would be how can this power be abused? if a person is a threat then they should be killed apparently...threat to who and what may vary...I just don't want any one person having the power to tell me which citizen lives and which one dies without the due process of law. That doesn't just go for our citizens really, but if rights are truly unalienable shouldn't they apply across the board?
Declared war is real and legal, undeclared bombings without intelligence of an imminent threat (self defense) seems wrong to me...As I said earlier, I don't feel sorry for people who take up arms, but things like this are why I think this undeclared war on an idealism is so dangerous...too many lines get blurred.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I don't think we should be giving these people the benefit of any doubt. I don't have, want or need access to daily intelligence reports. Instead I trust in the people who do.
And I agree, this is a slippery slope and the lines could get blurred. If they ever do, if this program ever begins to be used inside the continental US, if we are suddenly targeting drug dealers or political opponents, then we should act. Until then I have no problems with this.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
figuring that out is what is supposed to make us better. It seems we aren't as concerned with figuring out how to fight a real war on an idea, we are only interested in blowing up those that carry the idea.
I don't propose it to be easy, and I don't propose to know exactly how to do it, but I know that this, drone assassination of citizens without due process, isn't the way.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
as much as I hate saying it, "how is that working out?"
even more than that, does that mean we will always be at war? when will we honestly be able to say, "there, got em all"
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
This is a question I think about a lot but do not have an answer to. I don't know what victory looks like. To paraphrase some Aaron Sorkin dialogue, "is it the American flag flying over Mecca? And if it is, what are we waiting for?"
Now I don't think that is what victory looks like, but I couldn't tell you what it does look like.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And we will always be at war with this fanaticism. I don’t think it will ever go away, but the world must always do what they can do to contain it.
I disagree. If you don't adapt to the new rule, you lose. Just ask the old fighting lines of war when they faced gorilla warfare.