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legal case for drones

mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
edited March 2013 in A Moving Train
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/20 ... icans?lite


Your government working to protect you, I feel so safe
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Message taken: Don't hang out in Yemen.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Jason P wrote:
    Message taken: Don't hang out in Yemen.


    but what if I have to get away from janice?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    i wonder when Ed and the boys will stop sucking Obama's dick?
  • even flow - question markeven flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    I wonder if a drone can suffer ptsd?

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    Message taken: Don't hang out in Yemen.


    but what if I have to get away from janice?
    From the Electric Mayhem?
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    I know not many agree but this doesn't bother me in the least. What are you doing associating with Al Qaeda if you are not, directly or indirectly, plotting against the US? Plotting against your own troops? This shouldn't be a concern because it should be unthinkable that any American citizen would do this. I am not going to lose sleep over anyone who gets caught up with terrorists and pays the price.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    JimmyV wrote:
    I know not many agree but this doesn't bother me in the least. What are you doing associating with Al Qaeda if you are not, directly or indirectly, plotting against the US? Plotting against your own troops? This shouldn't be a concern because it should be unthinkable that any American citizen would do this. I am not going to lose sleep over anyone who gets caught up with terrorists and pays the price.
    That is my view of the situation.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    JimmyV wrote:
    I know not many agree but this doesn't bother me in the least. What are you doing associating with Al Qaeda if you are not, directly or indirectly, plotting against the US? Plotting against your own troops? This shouldn't be a concern because it should be unthinkable that any American citizen would do this. I am not going to lose sleep over anyone who gets caught up with terrorists and pays the price.


    right, that is the current interpretation of this ability. That is the problem. Having this ability and considering it legal opens boundaries. As much as a piece of shit the guy they ended up killing was, was his family worth taking out as well?

    I don't feel sorry for anyone plotting terrorism coming to a violent end in any capacity, if you plan to kill innocents that is what should happen...but why kill his 16 year old son two weeks later? There was no evidence that his son was a terrorist, there was no evidence he was going to commit any acts what so ever. he was a citizen and deserved better.

    If an american citizen terrorist suspect gets killed while people are trying to detain or capture him that is one thing, but killing his american citizen child two weeks later without trying to arrest him for some kind of crime is disgusting.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    I know not many agree but this doesn't bother me in the least. What are you doing associating with Al Qaeda if you are not, directly or indirectly, plotting against the US? Plotting against your own troops? This shouldn't be a concern because it should be unthinkable that any American citizen would do this. I am not going to lose sleep over anyone who gets caught up with terrorists and pays the price.


    right, that is the current interpretation of this ability. That is the problem. Having this ability and considering it legal opens boundaries. As much as a piece of shit the guy they ended up killing was, was his family worth taking out as well?

    I don't feel sorry for anyone plotting terrorism coming to a violent end in any capacity, if you plan to kill innocents that is what should happen...but why kill his 16 year old son two weeks later? There was no evidence that his son was a terrorist, there was no evidence he was going to commit any acts what so ever. he was a citizen and deserved better.

    If an american citizen terrorist suspect gets killed while people are trying to detain or capture him that is one thing, but killing his american citizen child two weeks later without trying to arrest him for some kind of crime is disgusting.

    I understand. But was the sixteen year old son targeted or did he get caught up by being in the same room with six suspected militants? And what was he doing in that room?
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?

    this is the same thing, just on foreign land and it is much "cleaner" because none of our troops are at risk. just drop a bomb on the target.

    i do not support this by the way. i am against all drone use. i think they are unethical. just like snipers and land mines.

    additionally, i do not think that the president or any law enforcement people should be making decisions to murder americans without trial. lack of evidence makes this even more of an abuse of power.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?

    this is the same thing, just on foreign land and it is much "cleaner" because none of our troops are at risk. just drop a bomb on the target.

    i do not support this by the way. i am against all drone use. i think they are unethical. just like snipers and land mines.

    additionally, i do not think that the president or any law enforcement people should be making decisions to murder americans without trial. lack of evidence makes this even more of an abuse of power.

    Americans are not targeted to be killed everyday by police and federal agents in raids. Sometimes they are, but that is not the intent of the raid.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    JimmyV wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?

    this is the same thing, just on foreign land and it is much "cleaner" because none of our troops are at risk. just drop a bomb on the target.

    i do not support this by the way. i am against all drone use. i think they are unethical. just like snipers and land mines.

    additionally, i do not think that the president or any law enforcement people should be making decisions to murder americans without trial. lack of evidence makes this even more of an abuse of power.

    Americans are not targeted to be killed everyday by police and federal agents in raids. Sometimes they are, but that is not the intent of the raid.
    they went in to kill the kidnapper yesterday.
    they killed the branch davidians.
    the killed the guys are ruby ridge.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    JimmyV wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    I know not many agree but this doesn't bother me in the least. What are you doing associating with Al Qaeda if you are not, directly or indirectly, plotting against the US? Plotting against your own troops? This shouldn't be a concern because it should be unthinkable that any American citizen would do this. I am not going to lose sleep over anyone who gets caught up with terrorists and pays the price.


    right, that is the current interpretation of this ability. That is the problem. Having this ability and considering it legal opens boundaries. As much as a piece of shit the guy they ended up killing was, was his family worth taking out as well?

    I don't feel sorry for anyone plotting terrorism coming to a violent end in any capacity, if you plan to kill innocents that is what should happen...but why kill his 16 year old son two weeks later? There was no evidence that his son was a terrorist, there was no evidence he was going to commit any acts what so ever. he was a citizen and deserved better.

    If an american citizen terrorist suspect gets killed while people are trying to detain or capture him that is one thing, but killing his american citizen child two weeks later without trying to arrest him for some kind of crime is disgusting.

    I understand. But was the sixteen year old son targeted or did he get caught up by being in the same room with six suspected militants? And what was he doing in that room?


    room? he was killed two weeks later by the side of the road while travelling, keep in mind he hadn't seen his father in a very long time

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... 12438.html
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,459
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?

    this is the same thing, just on foreign land and it is much "cleaner" because none of our troops are at risk. just drop a bomb on the target.

    i do not support this by the way. i am against all drone use. i think they are unethical. just like snipers and land mines.

    additionally, i do not think that the president or any law enforcement people should be making decisions to murder americans without trial. lack of evidence makes this even more of an abuse of power.

    Americans are not targeted to be killed everyday by police and federal agents in raids. Sometimes they are, but that is not the intent of the raid.
    they went in to kill the kidnapper yesterday.
    they killed the branch davidians.
    the killed the guys are ruby ridge.


    With the kidnapper, they went in to get the kid and the safest thing to do for the kid and the officers is to kill the guy. You really upset about that? Honestly?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited February 2013
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?


    Waitaminute! I thought we had no reason to fear government? I was told I had no reason to need an AR if I wanted to defend myself? I was told tyranny doesn't exist.


    But I agree with you 100% on the drones. I don't want them flying over this country. Every bomb they drop on another country is an act of war.

    If Bush were doing it you'd all be screaming for impeachment. Heck I bet most of you did. What has changed your minds that it is now acceptable?
    Post edited by unsung on
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:

    I understand. But was the sixteen year old son targeted or did he get caught up by being in the same room with six suspected militants? And what was he doing in that room?


    room? he was killed two weeks later by the side of the road while travelling, keep in mind he hadn't seen his father in a very long time

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... 12438.html

    ??

    In the OP, the caption attached to the photo at the top of the article reads:

    "Tribesmen this week examine the rubble of a building in southeastern Yemen where American teenager Abdulrahmen al-Awlaki and six suspected al-Qaida militants were killed in a U.S. drone strike on Oct. 14, 2011. Al-Awlaki, 16, was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki, who died in a similar strike two weeks earlier."

    Were they not in the building? And wherever he was, if he was with six suspected militants why do we assume he was targeted only because he was the son of a terrorist?
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?

    this is the same thing, just on foreign land and it is much "cleaner" because none of our troops are at risk. just drop a bomb on the target.

    i do not support this by the way. i am against all drone use. i think they are unethical. just like snipers and land mines.

    additionally, i do not think that the president or any law enforcement people should be making decisions to murder americans without trial. lack of evidence makes this even more of an abuse of power.

    Americans are not targeted to be killed everyday by police and federal agents in raids. Sometimes they are, but that is not the intent of the raid.[/quote]

    correct Jason, it isn't the intent of a police raid to kill. There are extenuating circumstances that would lead to them killing someone, as in imminent bodily harm about to take place.

    The only possible intent of a drone strike is assassination.

    I don't think the President should legally be allowed to order the assassinations of US citizens without trying to arrest the person. If the suspect is still justifiably killed I would sleep like a baby, but at least some form of due process was still afforded them.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    americans are targeted here at home every day.

    how many americans are killed by police and federal agents in raids?

    this is the same thing, just on foreign land and it is much "cleaner" because none of our troops are at risk. just drop a bomb on the target.

    i do not support this by the way. i am against all drone use. i think they are unethical. just like snipers and land mines.

    additionally, i do not think that the president or any law enforcement people should be making decisions to murder americans without trial. lack of evidence makes this even more of an abuse of power.

    Americans are not targeted to be killed everyday by police and federal agents in raids. Sometimes they are, but that is not the intent of the raid.
    they went in to kill the kidnapper yesterday.
    they killed the branch davidians.
    the killed the guys are ruby ridge.

    And in each of those cases the goal was to get as many out alive as possible, not kill everyone. The kidnapper, the branch davidians, ruby ridge, none of these are cases where the government targeted someone for assassination.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    JimmyV wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:

    I understand. But was the sixteen year old son targeted or did he get caught up by being in the same room with six suspected militants? And what was he doing in that room?


    room? he was killed two weeks later by the side of the road while travelling, keep in mind he hadn't seen his father in a very long time

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... 12438.html

    ??

    In the OP, the caption attached to the photo at the top of the article reads:

    "Tribesmen this week examine the rubble of a building in southeastern Yemen where American teenager Abdulrahmen al-Awlaki and six suspected al-Qaida militants were killed in a U.S. drone strike on Oct. 14, 2011. Al-Awlaki, 16, was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki, who died in a similar strike two weeks earlier."

    Were they not in the building? And wherever he was, if he was with six suspected militants why do we assume he was targeted only because he was the son of a terrorist?

    it says suspected militants by the way...conflicting reports I guess.

    My neighbor in Duluth was a suspected meth dealer, it wouldn't have been ok for the police to raid my home and shoot me because he was next door. The kid was a citizen, due process is afforded to all of us, even the ones the gov't doesn't like.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:

    ??

    In the OP, the caption attached to the photo at the top of the article reads:

    "Tribesmen this week examine the rubble of a building in southeastern Yemen where American teenager Abdulrahmen al-Awlaki and six suspected al-Qaida militants were killed in a U.S. drone strike on Oct. 14, 2011. Al-Awlaki, 16, was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki, who died in a similar strike two weeks earlier."

    Were they not in the building? And wherever he was, if he was with six suspected militants why do we assume he was targeted only because he was the son of a terrorist?

    it says suspected militants by the way...conflicting reports I guess.

    My neighbor in Duluth was a suspected meth dealer, it wouldn't have been ok for the police to raid my home and shoot me because he was next door. The kid was a citizen, due process is afforded to all of us, even the ones the gov't doesn't like.

    And if it ever happened in Duluth and for that reason I would absolutely agree. But it seems like this "innocent" kid was running in the same circles as his father.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    From what I've read, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki was killed in a strike several weeks later where he was riding along with the intended target, an Egyption Al Queda leader.
  • even flow - question markeven flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    quote="JimmyV"]I don't feel sorry for anyone plotting terrorism coming to a violent end in any capacity, if you plan to kill innocents that is what should happen...[/quote]


    Just curious if you'd expand this to heads of state who you know give the okay to wipe out an entire wedding party and then say oops, it's not terrorism, it's a mistake. ;) Don't open up a can of worms and then throw the word terrorism around with only the US dictionary's meaning.

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    quote="JimmyV"]I don't feel sorry for anyone plotting terrorism coming to a violent end in any capacity, if you plan to kill innocents that is what should happen...


    Just curious if you'd expand this to heads of state who you know give the okay to wipe out an entire wedding party and then say oops, it's not terrorism, it's a mistake. ;) Don't open up a can of worms and then throw the word terrorism around with only the US dictionary's meaning.[/quote]

    Just curious where you got this quote from. I never wrote it, please do no attribute it to me.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    JimmyV wrote:

    And if it ever happened in Duluth and for that reason I would absolutely agree. But it seems like this "innocent" kid was running in the same circles as his father.


    he was looking for his father, a man he hadn't had contact with in some time, with whom do you think he should have contact to accomplish that feet? This is a dangerous road to go down.

    Doesn't matter where an american citizen is killed by the american gov't, there better have been due process.

    I am not calling the kid innocent in the general sense. he may have been a piece of shit too, but the distinction between innocent and guilty should be made in a court of law. he was never charged, he was never indicted, there was no evidence he was plotting or attacking anyone. I have friends who sold/sell pot, because I am near them doesn't mean I do as well...

    if I use the logic used to justify these drone strikes, we could take out any citizen at any point considering no actual evidence of imminent threat is necessary.

    We are the United States of America and we are supposed to be better than this.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:

    And if it ever happened in Duluth and for that reason I would absolutely agree. But it seems like this "innocent" kid was running in the same circles as his father.


    he was looking for his father, a man he hadn't had contact with in some time, with whom do you think he should have contact to accomplish that feet? This is a dangerous road to go down.

    Doesn't matter where an american citizen is killed by the american gov't, there better have been due process.

    I am not calling the kid innocent in the general sense. he may have been a piece of shit too, but the distinction between innocent and guilty should be made in a court of law. he was never charged, he was never indicted, there was no evidence he was plotting or attacking anyone. I have friends who sold/sell pot, because I am near them doesn't mean I do as well...

    if I use the logic used to justify these drone strikes, we could take out any citizen at any point considering no actual evidence of imminent threat is necessary.

    We are the United States of America and we are supposed to be better than this.

    I hear what you are saying. I to wish we could be better than this all the time. I just don't think in this world, with these threats, that we always have that luxury.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    quote="JimmyV"]I don't feel sorry for anyone plotting terrorism coming to a violent end in any capacity, if you plan to kill innocents that is what should happen...


    Just curious if you'd expand this to heads of state who you know give the okay to wipe out an entire wedding party and then say oops, it's not terrorism, it's a mistake. ;) Don't open up a can of worms and then throw the word terrorism around with only the US dictionary's meaning.[/quote]

    I was just going to say I wrote that.

    I would define it as anyone who targets innocent people. Plan is the important part of that thought.

    When you bring down a building filled with innocent people, or convince someone to blow themselves up in a crowded market place you are a terrorist no matter what freedom cause you think you are fighting. I think the use of drones to assassinate is terroristic in nature to be honest with you.

    I am glad you pointed that out.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    special thanks to jv for pointing out this thread...

    i nominate this guy to be the first american on US soil to be killed by a drone strike, along with any of his associated forces

    http://nation.time.com/2013/02/05/chris ... ed-killer/

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    JC29856 wrote:
    special thanks to jv for pointing out this thread...

    i nominate this guy to be the first american on US soil to be killed by a drone strike, along with any of his associated forces

    http://nation.time.com/2013/02/05/chris ... ed-killer/

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false

    Read this quick and totally thought I was being nominated for a drone strike. :lol:
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • even flow - question markeven flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    JC29856 wrote:
    special thanks to jv for pointing out this thread...

    i nominate this guy to be the first american on US soil to be killed by a drone strike, along with any of his associated forces

    http://nation.time.com/2013/02/05/chris ... ed-killer/

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false


    Drone strike......Just put him in solitary with a loaded gun. It would only be a matter of time.

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    JimmyV wrote:
    JC29856 wrote:
    special thanks to jv for pointing out this thread...

    i nominate this guy to be the first american on US soil to be killed by a drone strike, along with any of his associated forces

    http://nation.time.com/2013/02/05/chris ... ed-killer/

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false

    Read this quick and totally thought I was being nominated for a drone strike. :lol:


    funny i can see the mistake... i would never nominate anyone from amt, especially you.
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