out of touch republicans

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  • YLed2YLed2 Posts: 5,534
    So some facts about this little thing that is the "IRS Scandal" in which the IRS targeted conservative groups and individuals.....

    Paul Shulman, the former Commissioner of the IRS, made a total of 161 visits to the White House between 2010 and 2012.

    Hilary Clinton, the former US Secretary Of State, made a total of 43 visits to the White House in that same time frame.

    In George W. Bush's 8 years as President, the Commissioner of the IRS made 1 "ONE" total visit to the White House.

    And the White House had no idea of the activities of the IRS? What were they doing on those 157 visits, playing Twister????

    :lol:
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    YLed2 wrote:
    What were they doing on those 157 visits, playing Twister????
    ...
    Nope.
    Smoking pot.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    YLed2 wrote:
    So some facts about this little thing that is the "IRS Scandal" in which the IRS targeted conservative groups and individuals.....

    Paul Shulman, the former Commissioner of the IRS, made a total of 161 visits to the White House between 2010 and 2012.

    Hilary Clinton, the former US Secretary Of State, made a total of 43 visits to the White House in that same time frame.

    In George W. Bush's 8 years as President, the Commissioner of the IRS made 1 "ONE" total visit to the White House.

    And the White House had no idea of the activities of the IRS? What were they doing on those 157 visits, playing Twister????

    :lol:
    i thought the tea party groups were nonpartisan? that is what they always claimed...

    if they were non partisan, how can the honestly claim that they are a conservative non-profit??????

    they can't have it both ways.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • rearviewrossrearviewross Posts: 3,055
    YLed2 wrote:
    So some facts about this little thing that is the "IRS Scandal" in which the IRS targeted conservative groups and individuals.....

    Paul Shulman, the former Commissioner of the IRS, made a total of 161 visits to the White House between 2010 and 2012.

    Hilary Clinton, the former US Secretary Of State, made a total of 43 visits to the White House in that same time frame.

    In George W. Bush's 8 years as President, the Commissioner of the IRS made 1 "ONE" total visit to the White House.

    And the White House had no idea of the activities of the IRS? What were they doing on those 157 visits, playing Twister????

    :lol:
    i thought the tea party groups were nonpartisan? that is what they always claimed...

    if they were non partisan, how can the honestly claim that they are a conservative non-profit??????

    they can't have it both ways.

    :lol::lol::lol: And Fox is fair and balanced. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    Forced to endure, what I cannot forgive.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    :lol::lol::lol: And Fox is fair and balanced. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    you think they can have it both ways? you think they can legally claim to be nonpartisan while giving money to campaigns?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    :lol::lol::lol: And Fox is fair and balanced. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    you think they can have it both ways? you think they can legally claim to be nonpartisan while giving money to campaigns?

    at this point it's not who was targeted it's that people/groups were targeted and the obama admin is up to their nutz in it, who would it have been next once the obama team is out ? if one political group (president or his team) paves the way for IRS coruption where will it end ? is this the change obama was talking about or transpariancy he boasted so much about ? and if this door is secretly opened as I said "who's next" ?

    Godfather.
  • groovemegrooveme Posts: 353
    NOT from the Onion, surprisingly:

    GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

    In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

    RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

    During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

    This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

    So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

    RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

    So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:

    But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks.

    RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

    If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

    But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.
  • groovemegrooveme Posts: 353
    It's as though they are having a contest for "most crazy congressman"
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    grooveme wrote:
    It's as though they are having a contest for "most crazy congressman"
    ...
    It think race for that title will tighten up.. now that Michelle Bachmann is dropping out.
    She was so far out there... I'm pretty sure she lapped the field.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • groovemegrooveme Posts: 353
    Cosmo wrote:
    grooveme wrote:
    It's as though they are having a contest for "most crazy congressman"
    ...
    It think race for that title will tighten up.. now that Michelle Bachmann is dropping out.
    She was so far out there... I'm pretty sure she lapped the field.

    lol, hadn't thought about that. She really is a nut, isn't she?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    grooveme wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    grooveme wrote:
    It's as though they are having a contest for "most crazy congressman"
    ...
    It think race for that title will tighten up.. now that Michelle Bachmann is dropping out.
    She was so far out there... I'm pretty sure she lapped the field.

    lol, hadn't thought about that. She really is a nut, isn't she?
    ...
    To answer that, I heard her next gig is going to have her picture on the boxes of Coco-Puffs.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    i could be wrong, but i doubt that a male fetus is masturbating. if we came of out the womb masturbating we would never ever leave the house....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    and if the whole "don't abort because the fetus is masturbating" holds water, can i use that logic to get out of things like going to work? "yeah boss, i am masturbating, so i can't work today and you can't fire me..."

    can i use that excuse to keep from getting fired/terminated? as in "don't terminate me, i'm masturbating..."
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    i could be wrong, but i doubt that a male fetus is masturbating. if we came of out the womb masturbating we would never ever leave the house....


    :lol: never leave the house... why would you ever need to leave the womb? ;)8-)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    grooveme wrote:
    NOT from the Onion, surprisingly:

    GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

    In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

    RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

    During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

    This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

    So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

    RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

    So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:

    But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks.

    RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

    If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

    But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.

    meanwhile in the white house life is stranger than fiction.....

    This just actually happened:

    The House of Representatives passed one of the most unbelievable, unconstitutional attacks on women's health in a long time.

    It's a bill written by Republican Arizona Congressman Trent Franks, which would ban abortions after 20 weeks, except in extremely limited circumstances -- a direct legislative challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    And 228 members of Congress just voted for it.

    Maybe they weren't paying attention to the reaction of Americans across the country last year who rejected candidates who wanted to restrict a woman's access to safe, affordable health care.

    Godfather.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Godfather. wrote:
    grooveme wrote:
    NOT from the Onion, surprisingly:

    GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

    In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

    RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

    During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

    This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

    So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

    RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

    So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:

    But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks.

    RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

    If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

    But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.

    meanwhile in the white house life is stranger than fiction.....

    This just actually happened:

    The House of Representatives passed one of the most unbelievable, unconstitutional attacks on women's health in a long time.

    It's a bill written by Republican Arizona Congressman Trent Franks, which would ban abortions after 20 weeks, except in extremely limited circumstances -- a direct legislative challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    And 228 members of Congress just voted for it.

    Maybe they weren't paying attention to the reaction of Americans across the country last year who rejected candidates who wanted to restrict a woman's access to safe, affordable health care.

    Godfather.


    as far as im concerned the ONLY person/body/board/whatever that should have jurisdiction over a womans reproductive rights is the individual woman herself. no state, no religious institution, no governing body, no man, no other woman. we all, as individuals should above all else maintain sovereignty over our own bodies.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Wow.

    How can the media make that headline? They put the word masturbate in a headline ... an outright lie from the statements made ...

    Between the media and the NSA, we are proper effed.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446

    as far as im concerned the ONLY person/body/board/whatever that should have jurisdiction over a womans reproductive rights is the individual woman herself. no state, no religious institution, no governing body, no man, no other woman. we all, as individuals should above all else maintain sovereignty over our own bodies.


    I think it's a bit more complicated than that since there is another life involved.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    they have learned absolutely nothing from the 2012 elections...

    it is like they honestly sit there in planning meetings and say "we really need jobs, but let's spend our time repealing obamacare, and abortion...AGAIN...."

    Social issues still fire up GOP despite 2012 loss
    House Republicans hit abortion, immigration hard, saying GOP elders misinterpreted Romney loss

    http://news.yahoo.com/social-issues-sti ... 20282.html

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican lawmakers have a message for those who want the party to soften its emphasis on social conservatism in hopes of reaching a wider national audience: Not so fast.

    House Republicans flexed their cultural and conservative muscles Tuesday, passing the most restrictive abortion measure in years. They also advanced legislation to crack down on immigrants living illegally in the country, even as senators pursue a plan that would offer those same millions a shot at citizenship.

    The actions reflect a roiling debate among Republicans over why they lost two elections to President Barack Obama, and how best to rebuild a winning formula.

    Many Republicans in Congress and elsewhere think the party's establishment erred in concluding the GOP must embrace "comprehensive immigration reform" to attract Hispanic voters. And they dismiss the notion that Republicans should soft-pedal their opposition to abortion, a subject on which they say public opinion is moving their way.

    "There's been a misleading thought as to what happened after the last election cycle," said Rep. John Fleming, R-La.

    "Most Americans do not support amnesty, especially without securing the borders," he said, regarding the idea of citizenship for those here illegally. As for abortion, Fleming said, there's growing public concern about second-trimester abortions, "so we're actually gaining ground."

    Like Democrats, Republicans often discuss ways to keep their base loyal while attracting independent voters near the political center. The urgency rose last fall, when Mitt Romney became the fifth Republican in six presidential elections to lose the popular vote.

    On abortion and reproductive rights, some strategists say the greatest need is for Republicans — especially men — to steer clear of incendiary language such as "legitimate rape." They know there's no way the Democratic-led Senate will embrace the House bill, which would bar abortions 20 weeks after conception.

    Tuesday's debate was largely symbolic but important, Republican leaders said.

    Immigration's fate in Congress is less certain. It's increasingly clear, however, that many Republicans think party elders were hasty in saying the GOP won't win future presidential elections unless it agrees to far-reaching immigration changes that include new pathways to citizenship.

    "What an idiot," Washington state Republican Chairman Kirby Wilbur said Tuesday of Sen. Lindsey Graham's recent comments on the matter. Graham, R-S.C., said that without "immigration reform" along the lines the Senate is weighing, "we're in a demographic death spiral as a party."

    "The pathology report of the death of the Republican Party is grossly overstated," Wilbur said. Republicans must do better jobs of messaging and finding voters, but they should not overreact to Romney's relatively narrow loss to Obama, he said. Obama won 51 percent of the popular vote to Romney's 47 percent but defeated the Republican by a wide margin in the Electoral College, 332-206.

    Democrats want to portray Republicans as out of step with the nation's values on gay rights, women's rights and common-sense solutions to illegal immigration.

    During Tuesday's House debate on abortion, Rep. Ami Bera, D-Calif., asked to bring up a student loan bill instead. "This is a direct attack on women's rights," he said after being overruled.

    Republicans responded by sending a parade of women to the House microphones.

    "We are changing hearts and minds," said Rep. Ann Wagner, R-Mo. "We hear more and more evidence that life begins at conception." She said she covets the day when abortion is "absolutely unthinkable."

    Rep. Jim Gerlach, R-Pa., said he supports the anti-abortion bill, but "our focus really ought to be on jobs, the economy and those kinds of issues."

    But Fleming, a former Navy and family physician, said there's no political or policy harm in trying to restrict abortion.

    And the best way to win over Hispanics, blacks and Asians, he said, is to encourage the conservatives among them to enter local politics and run for office as Republicans.

    "I see a bright, bright future for the Republican Party and conservatism in general," Fleming said. But it will happen only if "we have people of all sectors who join us in our beliefs and principles," he said.

    Recent polls provide fodder for both sides in the immigration debate. They show Americans support allowing those in the country illegally to stay and become citizens if they meet certain requirements. Polls that ask about giving immigrants a chance to become citizens without specifying conditions find less support.

    Republicans appear to be following the immigration debate more closely than Democrats. That might help conservative Republicans generate enthusiasm in next year's midterm elections, which typically draw fewer voters than do presidential races.

    It's too early to guess how immigration might play in the 2016 presidential contest.

    On abortion, polls find little change in Americans' sentiment. The General Social Survey, which has tracked opinion since the 1970s, finds support for legal abortion has been roughly stable. About 4 in 10 last year said abortion should be legal if a woman wants one for any reason, on par with the average results over time.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Godfather. wrote:
    grooveme wrote:
    NOT from the Onion, surprisingly:

    GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

    In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

    RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

    During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

    This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

    So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

    RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

    So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:

    But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks.

    RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

    If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

    But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.

    meanwhile in the white house life is stranger than fiction.....

    This just actually happened:

    The House of Representatives passed one of the most unbelievable, unconstitutional attacks on women's health in a long time.

    It's a bill written by Republican Arizona Congressman Trent Franks, which would ban abortions after 20 weeks, except in extremely limited circumstances -- a direct legislative challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    And 228 members of Congress just voted for it.

    Maybe they weren't paying attention to the reaction of Americans across the country last year who rejected candidates who wanted to restrict a woman's access to safe, affordable health care.

    Godfather.


    as far as im concerned the ONLY person/body/board/whatever that should have jurisdiction over a womans reproductive rights is the individual woman herself. no state, no religious institution, no governing body, no man, no other woman. we all, as individuals should above all else maintain sovereignty over our own bodies.

    I agree to a point but what of the father ?

    Godfather.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    Godfather. wrote:
    grooveme wrote:
    NOT from the Onion, surprisingly:

    GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

    In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

    RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

    During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

    This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

    So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

    RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

    So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:

    But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks.

    RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

    If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

    But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.

    meanwhile in the white house life is stranger than fiction.....

    This just actually happened:

    The House of Representatives passed one of the most unbelievable, unconstitutional attacks on women's health in a long time.

    It's a bill written by Republican Arizona Congressman Trent Franks, which would ban abortions after 20 weeks, except in extremely limited circumstances -- a direct legislative challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    And 228 members of Congress just voted for it.

    Maybe they weren't paying attention to the reaction of Americans across the country last year who rejected candidates who wanted to restrict a woman's access to safe, affordable health care.

    Godfather.
    I support such a law. Seems totally reasonable to me, and not reasonable at all to be having an optional abortion beyond 20 weeks of pregnancy.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • groovemegrooveme Posts: 353
    "Embattled Texas Governor Rick Perry is in the news again this morning, this time for what critics say was a thinly veiled attempt to publicly shame and dismiss his nemesis, Senator Wendy Davis.

    After she bested his party in a 13-hour filibuster that effectively killed his controversial anti-choice bill, Perry announced this morning that having been a teen mom herself, Davis should have “learned from her own example” and realized that “every life has value.”

    Perry unilaterally opposes abortion, including in cases of rape, incest and when the mother’s own life is at stake. He’s also pro-death penalty; just this week, Texas executed its 500th death row inmate since 1976."

    The guy is unbelievable! He also said "the louder they scream, the more we know we are doing the right thing" referring to the protesters against his bill. Sounds like he is trying to rape all the women of Texas at once.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    edited June 2013
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    grooveme wrote:
    NOT from the Onion, surprisingly:

    GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

    In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

    RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

    During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

    This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

    So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

    RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

    So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:

    But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks.

    RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

    If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

    But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.

    meanwhile in the white house life is stranger than fiction.....

    This just actually happened:

    The House of Representatives passed one of the most unbelievable, unconstitutional attacks on women's health in a long time.

    It's a bill written by Republican Arizona Congressman Trent Franks, which would ban abortions after 20 weeks, except in extremely limited circumstances -- a direct legislative challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    And 228 members of Congress just voted for it.

    Maybe they weren't paying attention to the reaction of Americans across the country last year who rejected candidates who wanted to restrict a woman's access to safe, affordable health care.

    Godfather.
    I support such a law. Seems totally reasonable to me, and not reasonable at all to be having an optional abortion beyond 20 weeks of pregnancy.
    I'd like to retract my statement. I do support banning optional abortion after 20 weeks, but I didn't realize that they were trying to close clinics and make women go to surgical rooms (meaning most of them would probably go beyond the 20 weeks by the time they got to the top of the waiting list). No way do I support that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    grooveme wrote:
    "Embattled Texas Governor Rick Perry is in the news again this morning, this time for what critics say was a thinly veiled attempt to publicly shame and dismiss his nemesis, Senator Wendy Davis.

    After she bested his party in a 13-hour filibuster that effectively killed his controversial anti-choice bill, Perry announced this morning that having been a teen mom herself, Davis should have “learned from her own example” and realized that “every life has value.”

    Perry unilaterally opposes abortion, including in cases of rape, incest and when the mother’s own life is at stake. He’s also pro-death penalty; just this week, Texas executed its 500th death row inmate since 1976."

    The guy is unbelievable! He also said "the louder they scream, the more we know we are doing the right thing" referring to the protesters against his bill. Sounds like he is trying to rape all the women of Texas at once.
    i wish perry would have gotten the gop presidential nomination. it would have been an even bigger bloodbath than romney. at least romney pretended to court your average middle of the road republican.

    perry has talked about secession before. maybe if this fails to pass again he might put his money where his mouth is, given that he is trying to take texas back to the 50s anyway.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    edited June 2013
    is there a social issue that republicans have been out in front of and on the right side of in the last 25 years??

    i can not think of a single one.

    they oppose:

    abortion
    gay marriage
    gay adoption
    the equal right for everyone to vote
    unemployment benefits
    taxes
    immigration
    separation of church and state
    muslims
    EDIT TO ADD- they oppose obamacare and any sort of universal health coverage and they oppose medicare and medicaid as well...can't believe i forgot about that.... :fp:


    and that list is just from me putting a minimum amount of thought into it.

    does anyone have an example of something they support being on the right side of the issue?
    Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • groovemegrooveme Posts: 353
    quote]
    I'd like to retract my statement. I do support banning optional abortion after 20 weeks, but I didn't realize that they were trying to close clinics and make women go to surgical rooms (meaning most of them would probably go beyond the 20 weeks by the time they got to the top of the waiting list). No way do I support that.[/quote]

    Two different issues here: the bill passed by the U.S. house of reps would ban abortion after 20 weeks. The one in Texas adds unnecessary regulations such as requiring the procedure to be performed in a surgical center, the doctor to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital, etc. Since most abortions are medical, these steps are unneeded, and the bill is opposed by the major physicians groups in Texas. They would shut down 95% of the abortion providers in the state, effectivley banning early, safe, affordable abortion for most women. That is their goal.

    Regarding the 20 week ban, I don't support it, because most women find out about severe fetal malformations until after that time, and I don't think anyone but the woman, her family, and her doctor should decide what's best for the fetus and the family in that situation.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    is there a social issue that republicans have been out in front of and on the right side of in the last 25 years??

    i can not think of a single one.

    they oppose:

    abortion
    gay marriage
    gay adoption
    the equal right for everyone to vote
    unemployment benefits
    taxes
    immigration
    separation of church and state
    muslims

    and that list is just from me putting a minimum amount of thought into it.

    does anyone have an example of something they support being on the right side of the issue?
    I can't actually think of anything, but assume that there must be something that I don't remember... did they ever do anything good for education?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    is there a social issue that republicans have been out in front of and on the right side of in the last 25 years??

    i can not think of a single one.

    they oppose:

    abortion
    gay marriage
    gay adoption
    the equal right for everyone to vote
    unemployment benefits
    taxes
    immigration
    separation of church and state
    muslims

    and that list is just from me putting a minimum amount of thought into it.

    does anyone have an example of something they support being on the right side of the issue?
    I can't actually think of anything, but assume that there must be something that I don't remember... did they ever do anything good for education?

    Well... I'm not sure exactly who to blame for No Child Left Behind
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    grooveme wrote:

    Two different issues here: the bill passed by the U.S. house of reps would ban abortion after 20 weeks. The one in Texas adds unnecessary regulations such as requiring the procedure to be performed in a surgical center, the doctor to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital, etc. Since most abortions are medical, these steps are unneeded, and the bill is opposed by the major physicians groups in Texas. They would shut down 95% of the abortion providers in the state, effectivley banning early, safe, affordable abortion for most women. That is their goal.

    Regarding the 20 week ban, I don't support it, because most women find out about severe fetal malformations until after that time, and I don't think anyone but the woman, her family, and her doctor should decide what's best for the fetus and the family in that situation.
    The bill didn't include allowing abortion when there is something wrong with the fetus?? I thought that was included in medical need, actually. I wouldn't support not allowing that after 20 weeks either.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303

    Well... I'm not sure exactly who to blame for No Child Left Behind
    that one there, that was bush's baby...

    remember this idea? let's teach kids according to a standardized test and punish the teachers who have kids that do not do well on it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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