Sandy Hook Truthers

JimmyV

I don't believe there is anything wrong with asking question. About any topic, ever.

BUT...

Trying to stir controversy, ratings and pageviews by spreading conspiracy theories is a dirty business.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/is_it_o ... andy_hook/

81

and if you listen to the news, they'll tell you Ryan was the gunman.

brianlux

Sandy Hook- yep- just another conspiracy. They're everywhere. The idea that there is life on earth is a conspiracy theory. Anyone with any sense knows its all just an illusion. Smoke and mirrors.

mikepegg44

it is definitely how some deal with massive tragedy

JimmyV

I think conspiracy theories are interesting. But there is a time and a place. All those victims mean to this jackass is an opportunity to get noticed. Really shameful.

peacefrompaul

“most of our media fail to question stories.”

My God, he's right!

mikepegg44

JimmyV wrote:

I think conspiracy theories are interesting. But there is a time and a place. All those victims mean to this jackass is an opportunity to get noticed. Really shameful.

I would hesitate to say that the victims were an opportunity to get noticed, I think he honestly views his position as a question asker. He is pretty genuine. Certainly not the typical journalist or "truther." But I watched his stuff on Fox 19 most of the summer about the election/coverage and give him the benefit of the doubt.

JimmyV

mikepegg44 wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

I think conspiracy theories are interesting. But there is a time and a place. All those victims mean to this jackass is an opportunity to get noticed. Really shameful.

I would hesitate to say that the victims were an opportunity to get noticed, I think he honestly views his position as a question asker. He is pretty genuine. Certainly not the typical journalist or "truther." But I watched his stuff on Fox 19 most of the summer about the election/coverage and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know him and maybe you are right, but just reading up a bit today did not endear him to me. I do think he saw this as an opportunity.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... _blog.html

peacefrompaul

mikepegg44 wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

I think conspiracy theories are interesting. But there is a time and a place. All those victims mean to this jackass is an opportunity to get noticed. Really shameful.

I would hesitate to say that the victims were an opportunity to get noticed, I think he honestly views his position as a question asker. He is pretty genuine. Certainly not the typical journalist or "truther." But I watched his stuff on Fox 19 most of the summer about the election/coverage and give him the benefit of the doubt.

He did a nice job tearing apart the GOP and I appreciated that.

JC29856

unfortunately, when anyone tries to point out "inconsistencies" in official reports, or ask common sense questions about what has been reported they and their observations get thrown down the poisoned "conspiracy" well. its actually a brilliant tactic to silence critics and question ask'ers.

gee:hey how come they havent shown a still image of the sandy hook shooter? (like they showed the columbine shooters, you know the one from the cafeteria?)
whiz:why should they? who cares? what are you a big conspiracy guy?
gee:no i just think some things are inconsistent and dont make sense?
whiz:oh yeah...what else?
gee: well like the scanner radio transmissions from first responders, as it unfolded
whiz:hahah you prob think the children were never killed, the entire event was staged, the kids were abducted by israelis and sold as child sex slaves to saudi princes...everything always has to be a conspiracy

blackredyellow

People are just so fucked up...

This man helped save six children, is now getting harassed for it
Gene Rosen sheltered six kids during the Sandy Hook massacre. Now he's become a target of conspiracy theorists
BY ALEX SEITZ-WALD

“I don’t know what to do,” sighed Gene Rosen. “I’m getting hang up calls, I’m getting some calls, I’m getting emails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor, ‘how much am I being paid’?” Someone posted a photo of his house online. There have been phony Google+ and YouTube accounts created in his name, messages on white supremacist message boards ridiculing the “emotional Jewish guy,” and dozens of blog posts and videos “exposing” him as a fraud. One email purporting to be a business inquiry taunted: “How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting’. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?”

“The quantity of the material is overwhelming,” he said. So much so that a friend shields him from most of it by doing daily sweeps of the web so Rosen doesn’t have to. His wife is worried for their safety. He’s logged every email and every call, and consulted with a retired state police officer, who took the complaint seriously but said police probably can’t do anything at the moment, and he plans to do the same with the FBI.

What did Rosen do to deserve this? One month ago, he found six little children and a bus driver at the end of the driveway of his home in Newtown, Connecticut. “We can’t go back to school,” one little boy told Rosen. “Our teacher is dead.” He brought them inside and gave them food and juice and toys. He called their parents. He sat with them and listened to their shocked accounts of what had happened just down the street inside Sandy Hook Elementary, close enough that Rosen heard the gunshots.

In the hours and days that followed, Rosen did a lot of media interviews. “I wanted to speak about the bravery of the children, and it kind of helped me work through this,” he told Salon in an interview. “I guess I kind of opened myself up to this.”

The “this” in question is becoming a prime target of the burgeoning Sandy Hook Truther movement, which — like its precursor that denied the veracity of the 9/11 terror attacks — alleges that the entire shooting was a hoax of some kind. There were conspiracy theories surrounding the shooting from day one, but the movement has exploded into public view the past two weeks, and a Google Tends search suggests it’s just now picking up steam. It’s also beginning to earn the backing of presumably credible sources like a professor and a reporter.

Rosen, a 69-year old retired psychologist who now runs a pet sitting business and volunteers to read books to kids in schools, initially called me to ask if I thought he should reach out to the FBI about the harassment. I said it probably couldn’t hurt. When I asked if I could tell his story, he was reluctant at first. “Here’s my fear: If I start talking like this, will one of these Truthers read this and will it embolden them? Will they say, screw that guy, how dare he impugned our credibility or question our intellect, I’m going to go one step farther? Am I being stupid?” he asked.

After thinking about it, Rosen decided that he had to speak out: “I talk to you about this because I feel that there has to be some moral push back on this.” Rosen said he’s staunch believer in free speech, and realizes there are little legal recourse possible unless he gets direct threats, so he had a different idea.

“There must be someway to morally shame these people, because there were twenty dead children lying an eighth of a mile from my window all night long,” he said, choking back tears. “And I sat there with my wife, because they couldn’t take the bodies out that night so the medical examiner could come. And I thought of an expression, that this ‘adds insult to injury,’ but that’s a stupid expression, because this is not an injury, this is an abomination.”

The harassment has turned Rosen’s life upside down, and made him feel things once foreign to him, like searing rage. “I was sitting in a restaurant the other night and these guys who were part of a car club came up to me and shook my hand and said, ‘you know, you’re a hero to me.’ He had seen me on TV. So I said thank you. Then I’m sitting there I hear this other guy, ‘oh yeah, it was a conspiracy.’ He was a big guy,” he said.

“I tell you what, I had evil thoughts. I wanted to go over the first guy, and he had about 15 big guys with him, and say, ‘I’m going to go talk to this other guy — just watch my back.’ And then I wanted to go over to other guy and get up in his face and say, ‘see those guys over there, just know they’re keeping an eye out for me.’ And they I wanted to say, ‘I want to see what you look like. I want to see what a person who generates this kind of evil shits looks like. I want to look at your face and tell you you’re an asshole,’” he said.

He didn’t do it, of course. “But it tells me how rageful I am. And I am rageful about it, both for the children and for the mother of the child who came to my house looking for her son and I wanted to look at this guy and I wanted to just fucking decimate him. That’s my rage.”

But when he starts to feel that way, Rosen can think of the first man. And the countless others out there who see Rosen as a hero, and not a tool of some shadowy conspiracy. Because for every angry call or email, there any many many more praising ones: “I get the most beautifully written cards, wonderful calls.” Let’s hope they continue to be the majority.
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/this_ma ... ed_for_it/

cincybearcat

I hate people.

JimmyV

cincybearcat wrote:

I hate people.

Yep.

Bentleyspop

The people who come up with these conspiracy theories and/or believe in them are also the same people who believe that President Obama is a socialist Muslim from Kenya who is going to bring in U.N. troops to take away all of their guns.

They see govt orchestrated conspiracies behind eveything

:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

JC29856

blackredyellow wrote:

People are just so fucked up...

This man helped save six children, is now getting harassed for it
Gene Rosen sheltered six kids during the Sandy Hook massacre. Now he's become a target of conspiracy theorists
BY ALEX SEITZ-WALD

“I don’t know what to do,” sighed Gene Rosen. “I’m getting hang up calls, I’m getting some calls, I’m getting emails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor, ‘how much am I being paid’?” Someone posted a photo of his house online. There have been phony Google+ and YouTube accounts created in his name, messages on white supremacist message boards ridiculing the “emotional Jewish guy,” and dozens of blog posts and videos “exposing” him as a fraud. One email purporting to be a business inquiry taunted: “How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting’. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?”

“The quantity of the material is overwhelming,” he said. So much so that a friend shields him from most of it by doing daily sweeps of the web so Rosen doesn’t have to. His wife is worried for their safety. He’s logged every email and every call, and consulted with a retired state police officer, who took the complaint seriously but said police probably can’t do anything at the moment, and he plans to do the same with the FBI.

What did Rosen do to deserve this? One month ago, he found six little children and a bus driver at the end of the driveway of his home in Newtown, Connecticut. “We can’t go back to school,” one little boy told Rosen. “Our teacher is dead.” He brought them inside and gave them food and juice and toys. He called their parents. He sat with them and listened to their shocked accounts of what had happened just down the street inside Sandy Hook Elementary, close enough that Rosen heard the gunshots.

In the hours and days that followed, Rosen did a lot of media interviews. “I wanted to speak about the bravery of the children, and it kind of helped me work through this,” he told Salon in an interview. “I guess I kind of opened myself up to this.”

The “this” in question is becoming a prime target of the burgeoning Sandy Hook Truther movement, which — like its precursor that denied the veracity of the 9/11 terror attacks — alleges that the entire shooting was a hoax of some kind. There were conspiracy theories surrounding the shooting from day one, but the movement has exploded into public view the past two weeks, and a Google Tends search suggests it’s just now picking up steam. It’s also beginning to earn the backing of presumably credible sources like a professor and a reporter.

Rosen, a 69-year old retired psychologist who now runs a pet sitting business and volunteers to read books to kids in schools, initially called me to ask if I thought he should reach out to the FBI about the harassment. I said it probably couldn’t hurt. When I asked if I could tell his story, he was reluctant at first. “Here’s my fear: If I start talking like this, will one of these Truthers read this and will it embolden them? Will they say, screw that guy, how dare he impugned our credibility or question our intellect, I’m going to go one step farther? Am I being stupid?” he asked.

After thinking about it, Rosen decided that he had to speak out: “I talk to you about this because I feel that there has to be some moral push back on this.” Rosen said he’s staunch believer in free speech, and realizes there are little legal recourse possible unless he gets direct threats, so he had a different idea.

“There must be someway to morally shame these people, because there were twenty dead children lying an eighth of a mile from my window all night long,” he said, choking back tears. “And I sat there with my wife, because they couldn’t take the bodies out that night so the medical examiner could come. And I thought of an expression, that this ‘adds insult to injury,’ but that’s a stupid expression, because this is not an injury, this is an abomination.”

The harassment has turned Rosen’s life upside down, and made him feel things once foreign to him, like searing rage. “I was sitting in a restaurant the other night and these guys who were part of a car club came up to me and shook my hand and said, ‘you know, you’re a hero to me.’ He had seen me on TV. So I said thank you. Then I’m sitting there I hear this other guy, ‘oh yeah, it was a conspiracy.’ He was a big guy,” he said.

“I tell you what, I had evil thoughts. I wanted to go over the first guy, and he had about 15 big guys with him, and say, ‘I’m going to go talk to this other guy — just watch my back.’ And then I wanted to go over to other guy and get up in his face and say, ‘see those guys over there, just know they’re keeping an eye out for me.’ And they I wanted to say, ‘I want to see what you look like. I want to see what a person who generates this kind of evil shits looks like. I want to look at your face and tell you you’re an asshole,’” he said.

He didn’t do it, of course. “But it tells me how rageful I am. And I am rageful about it, both for the children and for the mother of the child who came to my house looking for her son and I wanted to look at this guy and I wanted to just fucking decimate him. That’s my rage.”

But when he starts to feel that way, Rosen can think of the first man. And the countless others out there who see Rosen as a hero, and not a tool of some shadowy conspiracy. Because for every angry call or email, there any many many more praising ones: “I get the most beautifully written cards, wonderful calls.” Let’s hope they continue to be the majority.
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/this_ma ... ed_for_it/

unfortunately, when anyone tries to point out "inconsistencies" in official reports, or ask common sense questions about what has been reported they and their observations get thrown down the poisoned "conspiracy" well. its actually a brilliant tactic to silence critics and question ask'ers.

EXHIBIT A

JC29856

Bentleyspop wrote:

The people who come up with these conspiracy theories and/or believe in them are also the same people who believe that President Obama is a socialist Muslim from Kenya who is going to bring in U.N. troops to take away all of their guns.

They see govt orchestrated conspiracies behind eveything

:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

unfortunately, when anyone tries to point out "inconsistencies" in official reports, or ask common sense questions about what has been reported they and their observations get thrown down the poisoned "conspiracy" well. its actually a brilliant tactic to silence critics and question ask'ers.

EXHIBIT B

JimmyV

JC29856 wrote:

Bentleyspop wrote:

The people who come up with these conspiracy theories and/or believe in them are also the same people who believe that President Obama is a socialist Muslim from Kenya who is going to bring in U.N. troops to take away all of their guns.

They see govt orchestrated conspiracies behind eveything

:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

unfortunately, when anyone tries to point out "inconsistencies" in official reports, or ask common sense questions about what has been reported they and their observations get thrown down the poisoned "conspiracy" well. its actually a brilliant tactic to silence critics and question ask'ers.

EXHIBIT B

But the people Bentleyspop is referring to are the very reason why the poisoned conspiracy well exists.

JC29856

JimmyV wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

Bentleyspop wrote:

The people who come up with these conspiracy theories and/or believe in them are also the same people who believe that President Obama is a socialist Muslim from Kenya who is going to bring in U.N. troops to take away all of their guns.

They see govt orchestrated conspiracies behind eveything

:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

unfortunately, when anyone tries to point out "inconsistencies" in official reports, or ask common sense questions about what has been reported they and their observations get thrown down the poisoned "conspiracy" well. its actually a brilliant tactic to silence critics and question ask'ers.

EXHIBIT B

But the people Bentleyspop is referring to are the very reason why the poisoned conspiracy well exists.

okay then help me with what is considered a "conspiracy theory":

if someone said say 4 months ago or so that the OWS protesters were targeted by government agencies and private security firms hired by private companies and that these agencies were working together to infiltrate, information gather and possibly assassinate OWS leaders would that have been considered a conspiracy theory? if so why? if not why not?

JimmyV

JC29856 wrote:

okay then help me with what is considered a "conspiracy theory":

if someone said say 4 months ago or so that the OWS protesters were targeted by government agencies and private security firms hired by private companies and that these agencies were working together to infiltrate, information gather and possibly assassinate OWS leaders would that have been considered a conspiracy theory? if so why? if not why not?

Possibly assassinate? I think that is the bridge that leads you too far. The rest seems at least plausible. The government assassinating OWS protestors does not.

JC29856

is this a conspiracy theory:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... nipulation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... b-plot-fbi

JC29856

JimmyV wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

okay then help me with what is considered a "conspiracy theory":

if someone said say 4 months ago or so that the OWS protesters were targeted by government agencies and private security firms hired by private companies and that these agencies were working together to infiltrate, information gather and possibly assassinate OWS leaders would that have been considered a conspiracy theory? if so why? if not why not?

Possibly assassinate? I think that is the bridge that leads you too far. The rest seems at least plausible. The government assassinating OWS protestors does not.

ok would it have been considered conspiracy theory or not???

BRIDGE THE GAP
Information on the alleged plot to kill off protesters appears on page 61 of the trove of documents obtained recently by a FOIA request filed by the Partnership For Civil Justice Fund. On the page in question, marked “SECRET,” the FBI acknowledges:

An identified [redacted] of October planned to engage in sniper attacks against protesters in Houston, Texas, if deemed necessary. An identified [redacted] had received intelligence that indicated the protesters in New York and Seattle planned similar protests in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Austin, Texas. [Redacted] planned to gather intelligence against the leaders of the protest groups and obtain photographs then formulate a plan to kill the leadership via suppressed sniper rifles.

JimmyV

JC29856 wrote:

is this a conspiracy theory:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... nipulation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... b-plot-fbi

If someone approached me and offered to show me how to blow up a bridge, I would be on the phone to the police.

JC29856

JimmyV wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

is this a conspiracy theory:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... nipulation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... b-plot-fbi

If someone approached me and offered to show me how to blow up a bridge, I would be on the phone to the police.

profound insight! thank you!!!

JimmyV

JC29856 wrote:

ok would it have been considered conspiracy theory or not???

BRIDGE THE GAP
Information on the alleged plot to kill off protesters appears on page 61 of the trove of documents obtained recently by a FOIA request filed by the Partnership For Civil Justice Fund. On the page in question, marked “SECRET,” the FBI acknowledges:

An identified [redacted] of October planned to engage in sniper attacks against protesters in Houston, Texas, if deemed necessary. An identified [redacted] had received intelligence that indicated the protesters in New York and Seattle planned similar protests in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Austin, Texas. [Redacted] planned to gather intelligence against the leaders of the protest groups and obtain photographs then formulate a plan to kill the leadership via suppressed sniper rifles.

Absolutely a conspiracy theory. Where is there any evidence that the government was planning these sniper attacks?

JimmyV

JC29856 wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

is this a conspiracy theory:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... nipulation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... b-plot-fbi

If someone approached me and offered to show me how to blow up a bridge, I would be on the phone to the police.

profound insight! thank you!!!

What else is there to say? These self-proclaimed anarchists were approached and offered insight on how to blow up a bridge. There response to this was to move in with the person offering this information. Now we are supposed to view them as victims who were entrapped? Please.

fear4freedom

What is a conspiracy theory called if it becomes true or proven? What is the opposite of a conspiracy theory?

Over time, what is the percentage of conspiracy theories proven to be true? anyone?

JimmyV

fear4freedom wrote:

What is a conspiracy theory called if it becomes true or proven? What is the opposite of a conspiracy theory?

Over time, what is the percentage of conspiracy theories proven to be true? anyone?

I'm not sure we can come up with a percentage since the sheer number of them is so large. How about examples of specific conspiracy theories that were proven to be true? That might at least give us a place to start.

JimmyV

JimmyV wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

What is a conspiracy theory called if it becomes true or proven? What is the opposite of a conspiracy theory?

Over time, what is the percentage of conspiracy theories proven to be true? anyone?

I'm not sure we can come up with a percentage since the sheer number of them is so large. How about examples of specific conspiracy theories that were proven to be true? That might at least give us a place to start.

How about one?

JC29856

JimmyV wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

What is a conspiracy theory called if it becomes true or proven? What is the opposite of a conspiracy theory?

Over time, what is the percentage of conspiracy theories proven to be true? anyone?

I'm not sure we can come up with a percentage since the sheer number of them is so large. How about examples of specific conspiracy theories that were proven to be true? That might at least give us a place to start.

How about one?

i gave you the OWS above, where private security firms worked with at least 5 govt agencies to thwart dissent.
heres a bonus MKULTRA...

funny that you require answers to your questions..

JimmyV

JC29856 wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

How about one?

i gave you the OWS above, where private security firms worked with at least 5 govt agencies to thwart dissent.
heres a bonus MKULTRA...

funny that you require answers to your questions..

The one where you alleged the government was assassinating OWS activists? Sorry, that one is far from proven.

JC29856

OWS protesters were targeted by government agencies and private security firms hired by private companies and that these agencies were working together to infiltrate, information gather and possibly assassinate OWS leaders

are you saying that this isnt true? i should prove this? these documents came from the govt which they fought to keep secret. the names were redacted, obviously i cant prove it!
who do you think considered those "iphone carry hipsters that needed to go get a job" a threat, who do you think wanted to kill its leaders? the 10 club, the american library association, AARP????

yes your right i cant prove that the govt wanted to kill OWS leaders, I cant prove that the govt killed JFK, I cant prove that the govt killed MLK, i cant prove that the govt didnt kill etc etc etc (soon to be assange)