Big Ten Basketball Thread (Includes Weekly Power Rankings!)
PHATJ
Posts: 348
As a big college basketball fan, I wanted to start a discussion about the strongest basketball conference in all of the land. The Big10 (or "B1G" as it likes to be called). My hope is that we can each take the angle of writing from one of the schools perspectives. Maybe you could give a little history of your choice school's successes (or lack thereof) and then talk about where they are now. Hopefully this will lead to some fun game threads and discussions through what promises to be a hell of a Big10 season.
I'll get us started...
I am a resident of Minnesota and have had the often misfortune of being a fan of the Minnesota Golden Gophers. When I was young there were some fun teams for me to cheer for. In 1982 (when I was two years old) the Gophers won the Big10 but lost in the second round of the NCAAs. There was a Sweet 16 appearance in 1989, followed by an Elite 8 showing in 1990. In 1997 there was a magical 31-4 season that won the Big10 and finished in a Final Four appearance (this season was ultimately stricken from the record books because of an academic fraud scandal). Since 1997, MN has had only one season with a winning conference record (they were only 9-7 in that season) and have only managed to make the NCAA Tournament four times, each appearance resulting in a first round exit. So to say the least, it's been quite a while since a I have had much to cheer about.
For the first time in a long time, 2013 looks like it could actually be a fun year to be a Gophers fan.
The Gophers are currently ranked #9 in the AP poll (as of Dec. 31, 2012) and won two big home games this week to open the Big10 Season. First they knocked off #18 Michigan State 76-63 on New Years Eve. Michigan State has owned the Gophers for years and this was a big step in the right direction for my club. They followed up that win by defeating Northwestern 69-51 on Sunday night (Jan. 6, 2013). The new AP rankings come out tomorrow and the Gophers should be moving up. During the past week #8 Ohio State lost to #11 Illinois, and #5 Indiana barely edged out unranked Iowa 69-65. I don't expect to see Indiana fall enough (if at all) after their narrow road victory for Minnesota to jump up more then one spot in the new AP rankings. The Gophers should expect to pass Ohio State and move into the #8 position.
This coming week is as big as it could be for early conference games. First, Minnesota will travel to #11 Illinois. As mentioned earlier, Illinois beat Ohio State this week, but in their Big10 opener the Fighting Illini put up a stinker at Purdue in a 68-61 loss. The result of this loss should see Illinois falling a bit in the AP poll but the loss also clearly motivated them to step up on their home court against Ohio State in their following game - a decisive 74-55 victory. Minnesota will play at Illinois on Wednesday night and can expect Illinois to be hungry to prove that the win over Ohio State was the rule and the loss at Purdue was the exception.
Game two in this week's schedule could be even bigger. Minnesota will travel to #5 Indiana on Saturday. Indiana began this season as the #1 ranked team in the country and held that position until losing to Butler by two points in an overtime thriller on December 15th. If Minnesota is able to get by Illinois on Wednesday, the game against Indiana would be the biggest conference game for the Gophers since Tubby Smith became head coach (and probably the biggest since the 1997 season). A win to close the week against Indiana could potentially vault the Gophers into a top 5 ranking, and could add a lot of fuel to the belief that they could actually have a shot at a Big 10 championship in 2013.
With such large possibilities for achievement this week also comes the burden of the equal and opposite reaction that would take place if the Gophers were to drop their first two conference road games. A very exciting and promising promising start to the season would be replaced with the realization that the Gophers would be sitting at .500 in the Big10 and facing an uphill battle to try to compete for not only a conference title, but a decent seed in the NCAA Tournament.
Minnesota is healthy and seemingly playing at their highest level for the first time in years. With so much at stake this week the Gophers need to step up and make a big statement. The Big10 is likely the strongest basketball conference in America and two losses would be a major set back. Two wins would be huge. At a minimum they really need to get at least one win and avoid falling too far behind #2 Michigan.
Go Gophers!
I'll get us started...
I am a resident of Minnesota and have had the often misfortune of being a fan of the Minnesota Golden Gophers. When I was young there were some fun teams for me to cheer for. In 1982 (when I was two years old) the Gophers won the Big10 but lost in the second round of the NCAAs. There was a Sweet 16 appearance in 1989, followed by an Elite 8 showing in 1990. In 1997 there was a magical 31-4 season that won the Big10 and finished in a Final Four appearance (this season was ultimately stricken from the record books because of an academic fraud scandal). Since 1997, MN has had only one season with a winning conference record (they were only 9-7 in that season) and have only managed to make the NCAA Tournament four times, each appearance resulting in a first round exit. So to say the least, it's been quite a while since a I have had much to cheer about.
For the first time in a long time, 2013 looks like it could actually be a fun year to be a Gophers fan.
The Gophers are currently ranked #9 in the AP poll (as of Dec. 31, 2012) and won two big home games this week to open the Big10 Season. First they knocked off #18 Michigan State 76-63 on New Years Eve. Michigan State has owned the Gophers for years and this was a big step in the right direction for my club. They followed up that win by defeating Northwestern 69-51 on Sunday night (Jan. 6, 2013). The new AP rankings come out tomorrow and the Gophers should be moving up. During the past week #8 Ohio State lost to #11 Illinois, and #5 Indiana barely edged out unranked Iowa 69-65. I don't expect to see Indiana fall enough (if at all) after their narrow road victory for Minnesota to jump up more then one spot in the new AP rankings. The Gophers should expect to pass Ohio State and move into the #8 position.
This coming week is as big as it could be for early conference games. First, Minnesota will travel to #11 Illinois. As mentioned earlier, Illinois beat Ohio State this week, but in their Big10 opener the Fighting Illini put up a stinker at Purdue in a 68-61 loss. The result of this loss should see Illinois falling a bit in the AP poll but the loss also clearly motivated them to step up on their home court against Ohio State in their following game - a decisive 74-55 victory. Minnesota will play at Illinois on Wednesday night and can expect Illinois to be hungry to prove that the win over Ohio State was the rule and the loss at Purdue was the exception.
Game two in this week's schedule could be even bigger. Minnesota will travel to #5 Indiana on Saturday. Indiana began this season as the #1 ranked team in the country and held that position until losing to Butler by two points in an overtime thriller on December 15th. If Minnesota is able to get by Illinois on Wednesday, the game against Indiana would be the biggest conference game for the Gophers since Tubby Smith became head coach (and probably the biggest since the 1997 season). A win to close the week against Indiana could potentially vault the Gophers into a top 5 ranking, and could add a lot of fuel to the belief that they could actually have a shot at a Big 10 championship in 2013.
With such large possibilities for achievement this week also comes the burden of the equal and opposite reaction that would take place if the Gophers were to drop their first two conference road games. A very exciting and promising promising start to the season would be replaced with the realization that the Gophers would be sitting at .500 in the Big10 and facing an uphill battle to try to compete for not only a conference title, but a decent seed in the NCAA Tournament.
Minnesota is healthy and seemingly playing at their highest level for the first time in years. With so much at stake this week the Gophers need to step up and make a big statement. The Big10 is likely the strongest basketball conference in America and two losses would be a major set back. Two wins would be huge. At a minimum they really need to get at least one win and avoid falling too far behind #2 Michigan.
Go Gophers!
"I'll Ride the wave where it takes me. I'll Hold the pain. RELEASE ME!"
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Go Hawkeyes!
Having to put all your faith
In no faith
I have to put Michigan at number one. Staying undefeated means something. Actually it means a lot. The only hesitation I have is that Michigan hasn't faced the strongest of competition as of yet. Their only game against a ranked opponent came on November 27th against then #18 NC State. Michigan won that home game by seven points. The schedule finally gets a bit tougher on January 13th against OSU when Michigan starts a stretch of five out of seven games against ranked opponents.
Indiana started the season at #1 and for the most part have looked strong ever since. Their only loss came in OT vs. Butler (granted Butler was unranked at the time, but have since climbed to #17 in the AP poll). The real negative of that loss was that it came at home. Cody Zeller and Victor Oladipo are first team all conference type players (if not better). Tom Crean has done a masterful job in turning around one of the nation's most storied basketball programs. I expect Indiana to be a top ten team all season and they are clearly one of the easy favorites for the Big 10 season title.
Minnesota's only loss this season was to Duke (#5 at the time, currently #1) on a neutral court . No shame in that. Quality wins this year include a 84-75 victory over #19 Memphis, and most recently a 76-63 win over #18 Michigan State. The rest of Minnesota's schedule is full of blowout type wins. This week will be huge for Tubby Smith's team. The Gophers travel to #11 Illinois on Wednesday and then #5 Indiana on Saturday.
Michigan State has Tom Izzo and years of success to fall back on. Guard play is a strength (which always bodes well in college basketball). Keith Appling is a leader and a scorer; two things good teams have in their starting point guard. I expect this team to be strong all year, if not quite a Big 10 title contender.
Ohio State has three losses this season, but only one (and a half) that I'd find concerning. Their first blemish came against Duke (#2 at the time, #1 now) in a toughly fought five point loss at Cameron Indoor Arena. I have no problem with that. The next defeat came at the hands of #9 Kansas. This one raised a bit of an eyebrow because it came on Bucky's home floor and Ohio State lost by eight points. That being said, Kansas is Kansas and I'm willing to give OSU a hesitant pass for that one too. The third loss happened this week and it was ugly. OSU went to #11 Illinois and laid an egg, losing by 19. This came just days after Illinois had been beaten by Purdue. This isn't a good sign at all for OSU. All of their wins this season have come against lesser competition while they have also lost to every ranked team they have played.
Illinois is an interesting team. They are somewhat puzzling, actually. After starting out 12-0 they are 2-2 in their last four games. One of those two wins was a nail-biter against a poor Auburn team (winning 81-79), the other being and absolute drubbing of #8 Ohio State. Their two losses were uninspiring as well. Losing by nine to #12 Missouri and by seven to Purdue. So the question remains: Which Illinois team is the real Illinois team? Games this week against #9 Minnesota and at Wisconsin should clear this up a bit.
All season long I have been expecting Wisconsin to start playing better and to be what they usually are: a very solid team on both ends of the floor that is nearly unbeatable at home, and is always in contention come March. I'm starting to think that this season may actually be different for Bo Ryan and the Badgers. They have opened the conference schedule 2-0 but neither of those wins inspire much confidence. Beating Penn State and Nebraska in an ugly "grind it out" fashion leaves something to be desired. The schedule certainly get a lot tougher over the next several weeks with nine of their next 11 games coming against ranked teams.
I believe Iowa is a vastly improved team. The Big Ten season couldn't have started out tougher for the Hawkeyes, with their first two games coming against Indiana (whom they nearly beat) and Michigan. Iowa probably won't win more then six conference games, but they won't always be an easy win for opponents either. The Hawkeyes are likely a year or two away from making a serious run at the NCAA tournament, but there seems to finally be some evidence of the program returning to respectability.
Northwestern has been decimated by injuries all year. Reggie Hern, NW's best player just missed a couple games with injury and looked far from 100% in his first game back against Minnesota on Sunday night. I expect the Wildcat's to play solid defense and confuse and slow down some teams with their 1-3-1 zone. If the 3-pointers are falling , NW could give some strong opponents fits and even pull of a big upset this season.
Purdue seems to be a pretty weak team this season as evidenced by losses to Bucknell, Oregon State, Xavier and Eastern Michigan (amongst others). That being said, they have also shown the ability to beat a quality opponent on their home floor. The 68-61 win over #11 Illinois this week showed that ability. This will likely be the biggest win Purdue is fortunate enough to get in 2013. But it also shows the Big 10's best teams that they cannot assume an easy victory when they travel to Mackey Arena to face Matt Painter's Boilermakers.
Penn State followed by Nebraska round out the bottom of the conference. Both these clubs will struggle to beat anyone other then each other during the conference schedule. Three or Four conference wins should be considered am accomplishment for either team, especially considering the level of talent the Big 10 boasts this year.
My Big 10 Rankings (As of Jan. 7, 2013.)
1. Michigan
2. Indiana
3. Minnesota
4. Michigan State
5. Illinois
6. Ohio State
7. Wisconsin
8. Iowa
9. Purdue
10. Northwestern
11. Penn State
12. Nebraska
Notes: Illinois and Ohio State are nearly interchangeable through this point in the season. The edge goes to Illinois based on their win over Ohio State. I feel much the same about Wisconsin and Iowa, and Purdue and Northwestern. Wisconsin gets the nod over Iowa based on the 2-0 conference start opposed to Iowa's 0-2 start. Likewise, Purdue gets the nod over Northwestern based on their win over Illinois.
#2 Michigan
#5 Indiana
#8 Minnesota
#12 Illinois
#15 Ohio State
#22 Michigan State
Tuesday nights schedule features Ohio State at Purdue. What is the percent chance that Ohio State falls into the same trap that Illinois did last week and is unable to take down Purdue tonight? 25%? 30%? I'm not sure. But if it happens people will be forced to recognize that OSU was vastly over rated to start the season. This is a must win for the Buckeye's.
You from Ohio?
Well, I have nothing to add
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
Can't wait to see how Egwu develops. Interior toughness was a big weakness last year and so far this year, but he's had some big plays and I've already seen a ton of improvement. He's got alot of upside.
Loving how Bertrand and Abrams are blossoming. Both are nice counterpoints to Paul, who's finally matured.
Groce has been a great coach so far this year. Finishing games much stronger than last year.
OSU may be a little overrated for now, but during the Illinois game the announcers were saying Craft hasn't played up to his full potential this year. He was kinda up and down with the hustle and tenacity against Illinois and that's the biggest part of his game. Watch out for them when he figures it out.
Don't you sometimes just want to see someone punch Craft right in the teeth
Oh yeah. His playing style belies his cockiness. I generally like guys that play like him, but he comes off as a real cocksucker.
correct
Thanks for the input man. I hope you keep it up. Big game tomorrow night! Gophers are coming to town looking to prove they are real contenders for the Big10 crown this year. I'm pretty excited to watch!
I was laughing at him too. Complete goofball. Much needed win for OSU tonight.
Then Calvin Sampson happened and the program went down the tubes. I am very excited to see how Coach Crean has been able to turn the program around since then. Pretty impressive considering what he started with. To see the fast-paced offense they have now is pretty entertaining. They're depth is incredible, too.
The Big 10 is a really strong conference this year and it is going to be a battle. Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!!
For some info on the state of fandome in Indiana, north of West Lafayette in Notre Dame territory, and south is Indiana University, and the remaining population are dedicated Purdue fans. Purdue fans tend to have more of a personal connection to the school, either by going there or being close to a Purdue grad, which results in what I think is a stronger sense of loyalty than other fans. Of course this loyalty gets tested every March for longer than I care to think about (the last final four appearance was 1980 with Joe Barry Carrol). What's developed is a reputation that Purdue chokes in the big games. Now a fan might say that the team 'peaks' too early or they may recall certain injuries to players at certain times, e.g. Glenn Robinson's hurt back in 1994 in the tourney. Heartbreak is just part of being a Purdue fan (see Robbie Hummel knee blow out).
The current team is basically really young and has spent a lot of this season figuring out what they're doing on offense and coach Painter has been figuring out what's the best rotation and combination to have out there. They've also been shooting poorly, especially from the perimeter. What's really showing itself is sub-par recruiting in the previous 2 or 3 years. The freshman this year are really good (Hammons, Johnson, and Davis) but are taking time to develop. This is shown in their 6-6 pre-conference start, but then at nice win against Illinois. They play a physical game and tough defense, which is something that Keady ingrained in the program and Painter picked up (Painter played at Purdue when I was in school there). Tonight's game was a good look at the team. They played hard with intensity, and they showed that there coming along with developing the offense. There perimeter shooting stunk, but they are figuring out the inside game now that we finally have a well functioning big. The can actually rebound pretty well, which is also something that has been lacking. They showed their youth with at least 4 missed layups that OSU rebounded. With those 8 points, the game would've looked much different. Even at sub .500, I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
One of my friends was raving about Hammons but was concerned he would leave after 2-3 years. I assured him that when his knee blows out in next year's tourney, he will be there at least 5 - 6 years.
That sounds about right. Purdue has had some bad luck with injuries, but then again, who hasn't?
Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
Speak for yourself.
Thank you DJ Richardson and some spotty officiating.
I was thinking Hammons will stick around three years, depending on how he develops. It is an added bonus that the knee injury guys seem like they're around a long time. Even Marve, with his transfer, felt like he was playing for 5 years.
Having to put all your faith
In no faith
BIG TEN POWER RANKINGS
1. Indiana (15-1, 3-0 Big Ten)
The Hoosiers had a big week. The week started out on a good note with an easy 23 point win over Penn State. On Saturday Indiana welcomed #8 Minnesota to Assembly Hall in what figured to be a difficult game. Indiana blew the lid off the arena in the first half shooting 66% from the field and 64% from behind the arc. The combination of their brilliant shooting and Minnesota's sloppy ball handling (12 turnovers) led to a staggering 23 point halftime lead. Indiana found the second half much more difficult as the Gophers mounted a strong comeback, but in the end the lead proved too large to lose. The Hoosiers face the Big10's only other team without a conference loss on Tuesday when they welcome Wisconsin to town.
2. Michigan (16-1, 3-1 Big Ten)
When #1 Duke lost on Saturday to #20 North Carolina State, the #1 ranking in the country was left wide open for the taking. #2 Michigan was on the proverbial doorstep. Needing a win on the road at #15 Ohio State to remain the only unbeaten team in Division I men's basketball and to clinch the (likely unanimous) #1 ranking in the country, the Wolverines came up three points short in their quest. The road doesn't get any easier for Michigan as they are set to travel to Williams Arena on Thursday to face Minnesota.
3. Minnesota (15-2, 3-1 Big Ten)
The Gophers faced a daunting task as the past week began. On Wednesday Minnesota began a brutal stretch of games that has them facing off against #12 Illinois (on the road), #5 Indiana (on the road) and #2 Michigan (at home) in consecutive games. The trip to Illinois got the Gophers off to a good start. Minnesota fought the Illini to a four point half time lead before imposing their will and cruising to an impressive 17 point road win. The second game of the set proved to be a much more difficult challenge. Indiana was ready for the test and gave the Gophers their most difficult game of the season. Minnesota showed grit as they clawed back from a 23 point halftime deficit to get within three points with just 19 seconds remaining in the contest. But the margin proved too large to overcome and the Gophers took their first conference loss. This coming Thursday night Minnesota welcomes Michigan to The Barn in what should be another highly entertaining contest.
4. Ohio State (13-3, 3-1 Big Ten)
The #15 Buckeye's went 2-0 this week. On Tuesday they won a hard fought game on the road, knocking off Purdue in West Lafayette. On Sunday they pulled of a huge victory over #2 Michigan at home in Columbus. These wins have eased the minds of worried OSU fans after the Buckeyes miserable 19 point loss at Illinois last week. Michigan should have had plenty of motivation heading into Sunday's game as the #1 ranking in the country was there for the taking after #1 Duke's loss on Saturday. Motivation or not, Ohio State came to play and took a 12 point lead to the half. As expected the Wolverines mounted a comeback and and came within a shot of taking the lead with 17 seconds left in the game when Trey Burke's jumper rattled in and then out. Buckeye fans breathed a sigh of relief and OSU had their statement win. The coming week will continue to test the mettle of OSU as they travel to #22 Michigan State and welcome the hard nosed Iowa Hawkeyes to Columbus.
5. Michigan State (14-3, 3-1 Big Ten)
Michigan State put up two wins this week. Neither win came with any ease. On Thursday Sparty went into Iowa City and squeaked out a tightly fought game against the Iowa Hawkeyes. Branden Dawson scored 17 points and Keith Appling went 4 for 4 from the line in the final 20 seconds as Michigan State escaped with a three point win. On Sunday Nebraska battled MSU to a much closer game then most expected. The Spartans led by just one point with less then two minutes to play before they finally pulled away to win by 10. Michigan State travels to Penn State this week before a highly anticipated game against Ohio State in East Lansing on Saturday.
6. Wisconsin (12-4, 3-0 Big Ten)
The Badgers are a tough team to figure out. Before their win over #12 Illinois on Saturday, Wisconsin was 0-2 versus ranked teams this season and often looked unimpressive even in victory. The next few weeks will tell the story of Wisconsin's season. The Badgers face ranked teams in eight of their next ten games (the only games against unranked teams are both against Iowa). If Wisconsin plans on staying in the upper half of the Big Ten this is where they will have to be at their best. If they can get through this stretch of games with five wins it could be looked at as a success.
7. Illinois (14-4, 1-3 Big Ten)
Illinois has had a pretty rough start to the Big Ten season. When the schedule opened the Illini were riding pretty high. They were 13-1 and had just been ranked in the top 10. Then came along Purdue, Ohio State, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Three losses in the four games have left people wondering if the strong start to the season was just a mirage. Illinois has two very winnable games this week. They are at home versus Northwestern and then on the road at Nebraska. I know it is still "early" but these feel like must wins. The following week the schedule gets much harder again and Illinois can't afford to dig themselves an even deeper hole.
8. Iowa (12-5, 1-3 Big Ten)
The Hawkeyes seem to be right on the verge of having a very successful season. Their three games to open the Big Ten schedule (vs. #5 Indiana, at #2 Michigan, and vs. #22 Michigan State) were as tough as any team in the conference faced. In two of those games Iowa fell to Indiana by four points, and Michigan State by three points. Iowa followed those nail-biters by walloping Northwestern by 20. This team will surely be the thorn in the side of at least one Big Ten contender this season. They will be put to the test this week when they face off against Wisconsin in Iowa City. I predict a win for the Hawkeys as they begin to make their mark on this Big Ten season.
9. Purdue (8-8, 2-2 Big Ten)
The Boilermakers had a predictable week. They put up a quality effort before falling in a 10 point loss at home to #15 Ohio State and easily handled an over matched Penn State team in an 18 point home win. Purdue has shown an ability to beat decent teams on their home floor (they knocked off the then #11 Illinois at home to open the Big Ten season), but they are far too inconsistent to regularly give top teams much trouble. The upcoming week has Purdue traveling to Nebraska in what should prove to be a tight game, followed by a non-conference match up against West Virginia.
10. Northwestern (10-7, 1-3 Big Ten)
Northwestern has had a slew of injuries that have made an average team a poor team. Their lone win in the Big Ten came against bottom feeder Penn State. The Wildcats next five games don't show a lot of room for optimism. They will travel to Illinois this week and face a team that has struggled as of late and will be desperate for a win. They then get Indiana at home in a game that seems nearly unwinnable. Things don't get easier as the schedule unfolds. Northwesten's next games include Minnesota at home and then Nebraska (admittedly, this is a potentially winnable game) and Michigan on the road.
11. Nebraska (9-8, 0-4 Big Ten)
Like most teams in the conference, Nebraska has faced a difficult conference schedule. Their best conference showings to date have been a six point loss at home to Wisconsin and a 10 point loss at Michigan State. In their most recent game the Huskers battled to the end and trailed by just one point with less then two minutes to play. Nebraska travels to Purdue this week and then gets Penn State at home (a game I predict will be their first conference win of the season).
12. Penn State (8-8, 0-4 Big Ten)
The Nittany Lions round out my conference rankings. It looks like it will be a long shot for Penn State to win more then two or three games in the Big Ten this year. Their most competitive conference game to this point has been a nine point loss to Wisconsin. Their three other losses have come by and average margin of 15.67 points. Games this week against Michigan State and Nebraska leave little hope as they will both be played on the road. It will definitely be a long season in State College.
The Big Ten is well represented again with four teams in the top eleven and six teams in the top 25. Wisconsin's strong start to the conference season has yet to convince voters they are anything more then a "nice" team, as they failed to break into the top 25 this week. They did however receive some consideration and are the sixth team listed in the "Others receiving votes" section of the poll.
Big Ten Teams in this weeks AP Top 25:
#2 Indiana
#5 Michigan
#9 Minnesota
#11 Ohio State
#18 Michigan State
#23 Illinois