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The Juggler

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

pjhawks

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

Jearlpam0925

Doug and Howie should both go, but realistically I'm starting to think Howie's skates his way through. Again, though, they should both be gone. And I'd give Wentz a chance with new coaching, but if Hurts plays well it's totally more a "earn the starting QB job spot". Otherwise, I'd be for trading him to Indy or San Fran for the right price, I just don't think they'll get some worthwhile from either. Then again, Bradford yielded a 1st rounder in a desperate situation.

F Me In The Brain

I predict they eat half his salary and trade him this off-season.  New England?  San Francisco?  (I hope not!). Chicago?
I would not want him at half salary after this year.  Would have been arguing for him prior to this year.

Jearlpam0925

Ooooooh New England's a good call. If he goes there he'll for sure be resurrected from the dead.

F Me In The Brain

Jearlpam0925 said:

Ooooooh New England's a good call. If he goes there he'll for sure be resurrected from the dead.

Hahahahaha.

F Me In The Brain

The Niners game showed it again last night....having a good qb is the difference between winning and losing.  Mullens sucks.  Bigly.  Allen was awesome.  
Ballgame Buffalo.  
Sure, the Niners were without their best few players and blah blah blah ...but if you swao QBs, Niners romp.

The Juggler

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

lol....okay dude. You were telling us all how great he was THIS season. 

The Juggler

I would think New England would take him too. I just don't see the Eagles eating all that money though. I don't think he's going anywhere. 

Jearlpam0925

The Juggler said:

I would think New England would take him too. I just don't see the Eagles eating all that money though. I don't think he's going anywhere. 

I think they'd be fine with the dead money with the right return, but I don't see them getting that. At the least I think he's here one more year. After that you can swallow the dead money of only one year more easily. And I think a new coach would love a chance to work with him. Like this team needs major improvements, but if Hurts can play a little bit then all of a sudden QB isn't a priority/concern for the next GM. Then the coach and GM are getting the best of both worlds.

Also, the O line hasn't been that bad, they have some decent depth there. The issue there has been the moronic GM and coach deciding to play Peters over Mailata (who has shown a lot of positives) and waited till only recently to put Johnson on the IR. Also GM's fault for drafting Reagor over Jefferson, JJAW over Metcalf, Matthews over Adams; trading for Slay and giving him a shit ton of money; continuously bringing back old, slow players, etc etc.

Over the offseason I think they have to trade Ertz and dare I say Lane Johnson. Or if not Lane, see if you can get something for Kelce. Move McLeod if you can. I think that's about all the value you have right now to get anything.

The Juggler

Jearlpam0925 said:

The Juggler said:

I would think New England would take him too. I just don't see the Eagles eating all that money though. I don't think he's going anywhere. 

I think they'd be fine with the dead money with the right return, but I don't see them getting that. At the least I think he's here one more year. After that you can swallow the dead money of only one year more easily. And I think a new coach would love a chance to work with him. Like this team needs major improvements, but if Hurts can play a little bit then all of a sudden QB isn't a priority/concern for the next GM. Then the coach and GM are getting the best of both worlds.

Also, the O line hasn't been that bad, they have some decent depth there. The issue there has been the moronic GM and coach deciding to play Peters over Mailata (who has shown a lot of positives) and waited till only recently to put Johnson on the IR. Also GM's fault for drafting Reagor over Jefferson, JJAW over Metcalf, Matthews over Adams; trading for Slay and giving him a shit ton of money; continuously bringing back old, slow players, etc etc.

Over the offseason I think they have to trade Ertz and dare I say Lane Johnson. Or if not Lane, see if you can get something for Kelce. Move McLeod if you can. I think that's about all the value you have right now to get anything.

Also playing Alshon over Fulgham. Guy racked up huge numbers for 5 or 6 weeks then they just give his snaps to the corpse of a once decent receiver from 3 years ago. Just play the young guys. Jordan Howard eating into Sanders' snaps bugged me on Sunday too. 

The Colts might be another team interested. Reunite with Reich on a team trying to win now. I think Rivers is on a one year deal and I'm sure Reich will think he can resurrect him. 

I think an NFL team has to convert a portion of the salary into a bonus in order to eat it. So, technically, Wentz would have to agree to a restructure for a trade to go through.

Wobbie

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

I had forgotten about “Wentzylvania” until I heard it on ESPN today

And you probably only heard it on those dumb ESPN shows because nobody actually calls it that here. lol

not anymore, they don’t.

Beat it Wob. Shouldn't you be watching First Take or Pardon My Interruption?

the first take crack was unnecessary.

Jearlpam0925

Sheil is the best: https://theathletic.com/2247597/2020/12/08/trade-carson-wentz-philadelphia-eagles?source=user-shared-article

Trading Wentz actually doesn't sound as bad - for either parties - after reading this.

pjhawks

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

lol....okay dude. You were telling us all how great he was THIS season. 

Nothing in his first four years gave any indication that he would continue to be this bad this year.  Can’t really give me shit for that thought process. I mean literally no one who was as good as he was in their first four years and this bad in year five. It’s just something else in 2020 that is unprecedented. 

And Kelce is most likely going to retire. He isn’t getting traded.

on another note your boy Chip Kelly just got over .500 for the first time at UCLA. He has fallen even further than Wentz.

The Juggler

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

lol....okay dude. You were telling us all how great he was THIS season. 

Nothing in his first four years gave any indication that he would continue to be this bad this year.  Can’t really give me shit for that thought process. I mean literally no one who was as good as he was in their first four years and this bad in year five. It’s just something else in 2020 that is unprecedented. 

And Kelce is most likely going to retire. He isn’t getting traded.

on another note your boy Chip Kelly just got over .500 for the first time at UCLA. He has fallen even further than Wentz.

Lol...again, you were telling us all how great he was THIS season. Like up until a month or so ago. 

He had a great 12 game stretch in '17, and was pretty good in '18 before he got hurt again (but then the team started playing better under a different quarterback...for the second consecutive year). Other than that he was largely mediocre for the other half of his career before sucking this year. 

You just overestimated him. 

pjhawks

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

lol....okay dude. You were telling us all how great he was THIS season. 

Nothing in his first four years gave any indication that he would continue to be this bad this year.  Can’t really give me shit for that thought process. I mean literally no one who was as good as he was in their first four years and this bad in year five. It’s just something else in 2020 that is unprecedented. 

And Kelce is most likely going to retire. He isn’t getting traded.

on another note your boy Chip Kelly just got over .500 for the first time at UCLA. He has fallen even further than Wentz.

Lol...again, you were telling us all how great he was THIS season. Like up until a month or so ago. 

He had a great 12 game stretch in '17, and was pretty good in '18 before he got hurt again (but then the team started playing better under a different quarterback...for the second consecutive year). Other than that he was largely mediocre for the other half of his career before sucking this year. 

You just overestimated him. 

No I did not overestimate him. He had some of the best numbers in his first 4 years as any quarterback out there.  I still believe he will be a very good NFL QB again.  I hope it's here but the idiot media and fan base will most likely run him out of town before that happens.

The Juggler

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

lol....okay dude. You were telling us all how great he was THIS season. 

Nothing in his first four years gave any indication that he would continue to be this bad this year.  Can’t really give me shit for that thought process. I mean literally no one who was as good as he was in their first four years and this bad in year five. It’s just something else in 2020 that is unprecedented. 

And Kelce is most likely going to retire. He isn’t getting traded.

on another note your boy Chip Kelly just got over .500 for the first time at UCLA. He has fallen even further than Wentz.

Lol...again, you were telling us all how great he was THIS season. Like up until a month or so ago. 

He had a great 12 game stretch in '17, and was pretty good in '18 before he got hurt again (but then the team started playing better under a different quarterback...for the second consecutive year). Other than that he was largely mediocre for the other half of his career before sucking this year. 

You just overestimated him. 

No I did not overestimate him. He had some of the best numbers in his first 4 years as any quarterback out there.  I still believe he will be a very good NFL QB again.  I hope it's here but the idiot media and fan base will most likely run him out of town before that happens.

Okay, Reuben Frank. You can't compare a quarterback of this era to a quarterback of previous eras because the game has obviously changed so dramatically. The best way to gauge a qb is by comparing him to his peers. Looking at where he ranked, he was great in 17 and good in 18. No doubt (yet, the team was better after he got hurt in 18, which cannot be overlooked). Mediocre in 16 and 19, and flat out horrible in 20.

But despite that, his numbers blow hall of famer Sid Luckman's out of the fucking universe! lol

pjhawks

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Maybe Hurts can give us a similar spark we've gotten in previous years after Carson went out an with injury. lol. 60 million cap hit next year!

What a mess. 

no way they are releasing him so your 60 million cap hit comment is irrelevant.   This is the safest move for Pederson. If Hurts plays well Pederson gets the credit for making the change. If he sucks it's on Roseman for taking him in the 2nd round and basically will cost Roseman his job.   Still think Wentz is the QB next year.

Yeah, that is the point. They're likely stuck with him. You've complained before about people harping about players salaries and such. That stuff is important.

stuck with him?  Jeez dude he's had a bad year.  Granted historically bad but it's not like he is Bobby Hoying or something.  I believe he will be a good NFL QB again.  Especially if they can fix the mess of the offensive line.  It's no surprise (ok maybe to some since they forget this)  that the worst two years they've had this century are the two years their offensive line was decimated (Reid's last year where they lost 4 offensive lineman and this year).  It's not a coincidence.

lol....okay dude. You were telling us all how great he was THIS season. 

Nothing in his first four years gave any indication that he would continue to be this bad this year.  Can’t really give me shit for that thought process. I mean literally no one who was as good as he was in their first four years and this bad in year five. It’s just something else in 2020 that is unprecedented. 

And Kelce is most likely going to retire. He isn’t getting traded.

on another note your boy Chip Kelly just got over .500 for the first time at UCLA. He has fallen even further than Wentz.

Lol...again, you were telling us all how great he was THIS season. Like up until a month or so ago. 

He had a great 12 game stretch in '17, and was pretty good in '18 before he got hurt again (but then the team started playing better under a different quarterback...for the second consecutive year). Other than that he was largely mediocre for the other half of his career before sucking this year. 

You just overestimated him. 

No I did not overestimate him. He had some of the best numbers in his first 4 years as any quarterback out there.  I still believe he will be a very good NFL QB again.  I hope it's here but the idiot media and fan base will most likely run him out of town before that happens.

Okay, Reuben Frank. You can't compare a quarterback of this era to a quarterback of previous eras because the game has obviously changed so dramatically. The best way to gauge a qb is by comparing him to his peers. Looking at where he ranked, he was great in 17 and good in 18. No doubt (yet, the team was better after he got hurt in 18, which cannot be overlooked). Mediocre in 16 and 19, and flat out horrible in 20.

But despite that, his numbers blow hall of famer Sid Luckman's out of the fucking universe! lol

Posted this earlier in the year...lots of contemporaries listed below.   But hey feel free to dispute the below.  But reading below just re-iterates how freaking crazy it's been that he has been this bad this  year.

From Dec 30th 2019

As Wentz prepares for his NFL playoff debut, let’s recap some of the remarkable accomplishments from his fourth NFL season and from his career so far:

First in NFL history: Wentz on Sunday became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw 20 or more touchdowns and seven or fewer interceptions in three straight seasons. Only Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson have done it twice.

Elite company: Wentz’s 607 pass attempts this year are fourth-most ever by a quarterback throwing seven or fewer interceptions. Only Brady (624 in 2015), Rodgers (610 in 2016) and Matt Ryan (608 in 2018) had more.

Wentz and Rodgers: Wentz has thrown 35 interceptions in his career, or one every 58.7 pass attempts. That’s the second-best INT ratio in NFL history, behind only Rodgers (72.2). That’s with the NFL’s minimum requirement of 1,500 attempts.

Amazing consistency: Wentz is the third QB in NFL history to throw a TD in all 16 games in a season and finish with seven or fewer interceptions. Brady in 2010 and Ryan in 2016 also did it. Wentz was the only QB to throw a TD pass in all 16 games this year.

NFL's longest streak: Wentz will take a streak of 19 consecutive regular-season games with a touchdown pass into 2020, second-longest in Eagles history behind his own 22-game streak set over 2016 through 2018 and the longest current streak in the NFL. 

No picks: Wentz had an NFL-high 11 games this year with at least one touchdown and no interceptions. The only other QB who did that was Russell Wilson. Over the last three years, only Wilson (28) and Rodgers (25) have more such games than Wentz (23). 

Avoiding mistakes: Wentz has had 23 games in his career with 30 or more attempts and no interceptions, most ever by a quarterback in his first four seasons. Derek Carr has also had 23.

First four years: Wentz’s 97 touchdown passes are ninth-most in NFL history by a QB in his first four seasons. Of the 28 quarterbacks with at least 80 TD passes in their first four seasons, Wentz has the best interception ratio. The only QBs in history to average a TD at least every 20 attempts and an INT less than every 50 attempts are Rodgers, Wentz and Dak Prescott.

Joining Cunningham, McNabb and Foles: Wentz on Sunday will become only the fourth quarterback drafted by the Eagles to start a postseason game for the team. Donovan McNabb started 16, Randall Cunningham six and Nick Foles six. 

Lucky 13: The only QBs to throw for 4,000 yards with 25 or more TDs and single-digit INTs this year were Wentz, Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers. Wentz is only the 13th QB in NFL history to have at least one season with 4,000 yards, 25 TDs and single-digit INTs.

The Juggler

Okay, Reuben Frank. Nice article from a whole year ago. Nice cherry picked stats by Reub, as well.

My point remains--you have to compare him to his peers. I said he was great in 17, good in 18, mediocre in 16 and 19, and horrible in 20. Here is where he ranked in terms of rating, qbr, and comp % those years (I used these stats since they're the most general to guage a qb in, other ones are mostly in line with these as well):

2016: rating- 25th, qbr-24th, comp %-18th (I said mediocre, you could actually argue bad, though you cut him slack for being a rookie)
2017: rating- 4th, qbr- 1st, comp %-24th (I said great, yup- accurate....unbelievable year...possibly a mirage though?)
2018: rating- 7th, qbr-12th, comp %- 3d (I said good, yup-accurate)
2019: rating- 13th, qbr- 11th, comp %-17th (I said mediocre, yup-accurate)
2020: rating- 31st, qbr-28th, comp %- 32nd (I said horrible- yup-accurate)

16- mediocre/bad
17- great
18- good
19- mediocre
20- horrible

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing.htm

I'd say for what they gave up to get him and what they're paying him, he needs to regularly be at least as good as he was in 2018 to at least be considered a true franchise quarterback. Obviously, he's not living up to expectations, despite your Reuben Frank article from 12 months ago. 

Edit --in addition to general stats, the eye test comes into play as well. There is no disputing that the team played better after he got hurt in 2018. And in 2017, they obviously went on to win the Super Bowl after he got hurt. Then there is also the issue of his teammates not fully trusting him, as you've seen with those stupid leaked stories the past few seasons. Calls into question his leadership qualities as well. 

Maybe a benching is the wakeup call he needs to jumpstart his career. I hope that is the case. We shall see what happens. 

pjhawks

The Juggler said:

Okay, Reuben Frank. Nice article from a whole year ago. Nice cherry picked stats by Reub, as well.

My point remains--you have to compare him to his peers. I said he was great in 17, good in 18, mediocre in 16 and 19, and horrible in 20. Here is where he ranked in terms of rating, qbr, and comp % those years (I used these stats since they're the most general to guage a qb in, other ones are mostly in line with these as well):

2016: rating- 25th, qbr-24th, comp %-18th (I said mediocre, you could actually argue bad)
2017: rating- 4th, qbr- 1st, comp %-24th (I said great, yup- accurate)
2018: rating- 7th, qbr-12th, comp %- 3d (I said good, yup-accurate)
2019: rating- 13th, qbr- 11th, comp %-17th (I said mediocre, yup-accurate)
2020: rating- 31st, qbr-28th, comp %- 32nd (I said horrible- yup-accurate)

16- mediocre/bad
17- great
18- good
19- mediocre
20- horrible

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing.htm

I'd say for what they gave up to get him and what they're paying him, he needs to regularly be at least as good as he was in 2018 to at least be considered a true franchise quarterback. Obviously, he's not living up to expectations, despite your Reuben Frank article from 12 months ago. 

i love how you say cherry picked stats...and you use 2 stats to rate him.  too funny.

here is how I'd grade his 5 years.
2016 mediocre but a rookie - so i'd grade on a curve for being a rookie and say very good
2017 - well yea great
2018 - good
2019 - mediocre with an incredibly bad lineup around him - led them to the playoffs with crap so i'd grade on a curve and say good
2020 - unbelievably bad