there is also a mass contradiction in the business. you see it right here on the website. as hedonist said, you can't have it both ways. but, go to the Porch, and you'll see posts about people wishing the band members happy birthday, or congratulating the lead singer getting married, and that is not only tolerated, it's encouraged because it comes from a "loving and supportive" place. But people on here get in shit if they post anything that might be deemed "intrusive". I think that all of that shit should be left alone. None of it is our business. Not the good, not the bad.
allowing the "good" intrusiveness encourages the "bad" intrusiveness in my opinion. because people who are interested in knowing about a celebrity's private life doesn't know the difference.
I just don't think that's realistic or reasonable. It's like asking people not to be human. I think it's managed VERY well here by 10C members though. I VERY rarely see anyone cross that line into too personal/intrusive, and most of us are smart and respectful enough to know where that line is.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
there is also a mass contradiction in the business. you see it right here on the website. as hedonist said, you can't have it both ways. but, go to the Porch, and you'll see posts about people wishing the band members happy birthday, or congratulating the lead singer getting married, and that is not only tolerated, it's encouraged because it comes from a "loving and supportive" place. But people on here get in shit if they post anything that might be deemed "intrusive". I think that all of that shit should be left alone. None of it is our business. Not the good, not the bad.
allowing the "good" intrusiveness encourages the "bad" intrusiveness in my opinion. because people who are interested in knowing about a celebrity's private life doesn't know the difference.
I just don't think that's realistic or reasonable. It's like asking people not to be human. I think it's managed VERY well here by 10C members though. I VERY rarely see anyone cross that line into too personal/intrusive, and most of us are smart and respectful enough to know where that line is.
when Ed and Jill got married, it was very much under the radar. someone started a thread about it, and the mods let it go for a while, and then locked it with a happy message but saying that it is private and it's time to close it. it should have been locked immediately. that's the contradiction I'm talking about.
being human? there's nothing inherently human about wanting to know about the lives of people you don't know personally.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
But they are public places... Anyway, don't misunderstand me. I don't think it's all cool (as I say, I like TMZ, but just because those people on the show are really likeable (and they talk about lots of stuff away from celebrities, actually; often, the celebrity just reminds them about something unrelated). I understand that the paps industry is slimy. However, what they do is legal, and it is a big money maker. We don't have to respect it, but until laws are created to keep them from following people in public places and legally taking photos of them in public places, then I don't see how we can really justify vilifying them either, unless they are endangering other people's safety, like they were with that Bieber car chase last summer, or when Princess Di was killed, or those photos of Kate topless while in a private compound (charges are being sought in all of those cases).
Anyway, it's a funny industry. It is totally a fact that the paps are necessary for many celebrities' careers. And at the same time they hate them... Seems to me a real love/hate relationship.[/quote]
doesnt seem to hard to understand from my point of view. You honestly dont see a difference between paparazzi taking a million photos at the oscar red carpet, and a celebrity yelling at photographers to leave them and their child alone as they look for broccoli at the supermarket? How else do celebrities live and exist? Theres got to be a way for them to be able to be away from the
again, you talk to ed next time outside a venue. Ask him if he'd be alright with having 20 photographers chase his car around town, taking pictures of his family, yelling at him, flashbulbs in his face, and then chasing him a car. Are you honestly telling me he'd say 'well its what i signed up for"? Really? You cant really think that can you?
I think most celebrities would say that if the paparazzi industry died tomorrow, they wouldnt shed a tear. its invasive, gross, and serves absolutely no purpose. When Harvey gathers all those paps in a huddle for TMZ and talks to them, what purpose or meaning do we get by some guy saying "I have big news harvey, i spotted Kim Kardashian at starbucks today. We asked her how Kanye was and what the babies name will be". What purpose does it serve? And you honestly think those people make an honest living?
Those arent public moments, those are private moments of private lives. What right does any photographer have to throw a mic and flashbulbs in someones face as they are walking their child to school and ask them about inane information thats only gleaned to get gullible audiences to tune into the show, to increase hits to the site, and to hopefully be used as source by other outlets. Cnn reporting that Hilary Duff says she is tired of acting, this information gleaned from TMZ press as she left a daycare center. Thats a made up statement but thats the sort of junk that passes for
Its stuff made to attract people. Quick flash cut images, bright lights, catchy worded headlines and pull quotes. This is designed to sell stuff. However, i dont think its the celebrities work thats being marketed. rather the celebrities image without consent is being sold.
there is also a mass contradiction in the business. you see it right here on the website. as hedonist said, you can't have it both ways. but, go to the Porch, and you'll see posts about people wishing the band members happy birthday, or congratulating the lead singer getting married, and that is not only tolerated, it's encouraged because it comes from a "loving and supportive" place. But people on here get in shit if they post anything that might be deemed "intrusive". I think that all of that shit should be left alone. None of it is our business. Not the good, not the bad.
allowing the "good" intrusiveness encourages the "bad" intrusiveness in my opinion. because people who are interested in knowing about a celebrity's private life doesn't know the difference.
I just don't think that's realistic or reasonable. It's like asking people not to be human. I think it's managed VERY well here by 10C members though. I VERY rarely see anyone cross that line into too personal/intrusive, and most of us are smart and respectful enough to know where that line is.
when Ed and Jill got married, it was very much under the radar. someone started a thread about it, and the mods let it go for a while, and then locked it with a happy message but saying that it is private and it's time to close it. it should have been locked immediately. that's the contradiction I'm talking about.
being human? there's nothing inherently human about wanting to know about the lives of people you don't know personally.
I actually disagree. I think it there is something inherently human about wanting to know about the lives of famous people (not just people you don't know). All evidence points towards that fact, like it or not.
As for the wedding thing... meh. I seriously doubt that Eddie cared. One little thread with fans congratulating them? I don't think that exactly made him flip out, especially when all it took to stop it was for them to lock the thread and politely ask people to stop it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
there is also a mass contradiction in the business. you see it right here on the website. as hedonist said, you can't have it both ways. but, go to the Porch, and you'll see posts about people wishing the band members happy birthday, or congratulating the lead singer getting married, and that is not only tolerated, it's encouraged because it comes from a "loving and supportive" place. But people on here get in shit if they post anything that might be deemed "intrusive". I think that all of that shit should be left alone. None of it is our business. Not the good, not the bad.
allowing the "good" intrusiveness encourages the "bad" intrusiveness in my opinion. because people who are interested in knowing about a celebrity's private life doesn't know the difference.
i posted about this last page. And i dont see it as a contradiction. I just see it as people being myopic. People designating some celebrities as money grubbers and others as "genuine". People posting personal stuff about the band or other bands.
We all know what peoples wives look like, their kids, their family members names. And it happens daily on this very board. We know personal details about the band.
Its the same thing as the shootings this last month. As long as we label the problem as "others", mentally ill people for example, crazy people, then we as "normal" people dont have to deal with it and can lay the blame on others and dont have to change our ways. People dont like to think of themselves as a problem. As long as we can blame the problem on paps who chase celebrities, then we are fine. I wasnt out chasing bieber the other night, so what responsibility do i have in all this, is the thinking alot of people seem to have.
there is also a mass contradiction in the business. you see it right here on the website. as hedonist said, you can't have it both ways. but, go to the Porch, and you'll see posts about people wishing the band members happy birthday, or congratulating the lead singer getting married, and that is not only tolerated, it's encouraged because it comes from a "loving and supportive" place. But people on here get in shit if they post anything that might be deemed "intrusive". I think that all of that shit should be left alone. None of it is our business. Not the good, not the bad.
allowing the "good" intrusiveness encourages the "bad" intrusiveness in my opinion. because people who are interested in knowing about a celebrity's private life doesn't know the difference.
...
I think **most** fans understand and respect the line between artist and fan. The understanding is that the stage is theirs, not ours. We have a seat in the audience, which is where we belong. Leastwise, I hope most do.
One thing I find creepy... is when some fans claim to understand an artist... one they have never met in person. Not like in the songs have special connections or meanings to the fan... but, more like claiming to know the artist. That's the creepy, 'We have a connection' kind of talk that you typically hear coming from a stalker or something.
And i have heard that kind of stuff amongst the Pearl Jam ranks. Kind of creepy to me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
it also comes out in more subtle ways. When celebrities or famous people hold back and are shy, reserved, reclusive, or refuse to go along with the system, it seems paps and fans only hound them MORE. In 2011, at a cannes press conference, Brad Pitt and others were promoting Terrence Malicks Tree of Life. Malick didnt appear, he's known for being shy. Many of the questions asked, revolved around "whats malick like". One of the more stunning questions was angrily directed at the absent Mallick. the guy stated "how could you premiere a major film, and not appear? Isnt it your responsibility as an artist to explain and to talk about the project". Brad handled it beautifully and mentioned the bizaare nature of the buiness that expects artists not only to create work, but to talk about it, explain it, market it, hype it, discuss it etc...
The celebrities who flat out just dont appear at red carpets and dont do interviews are viewed as freaks, and that only fuels interest in them more. Ever heard of Salinger or Harper Lee? Syd Barrett? Jeff mangum?
so no matter what is done either hiding in obscurity and reclusiveness or promoting yourself, no matter whats done people deal with this nonsense of paparazzi
the fact most of us even know the wives names, the children names, and what they look like, that IN ITSELF should tell you something.
What should it tell us? Eddie had his kids accompany him to shows, had the older one come out on stage during the show, his wife came out as well. He's also had his oldest kid be filmed with him when he was doing an interview for the Bridge School, he's released video of him with his kid, and she's even on his single Skipping. He talks about his family during interviews. His wife was a relatively famous model for crying out loud. Ed hob nobs with the uber-famous crowd. I think you guys are being even more sensitive than the people you're talking about! And also over-thinking it. And btw, I have no clue what his kids' names are, because I don't care so haven't bothered to remember them. And I have no clue at all about the rest of the band's families. I don't know how many kids they have (only that Jeff doesn't have any), I don't know who their wives are, nothing.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
the fact most of us even know the wives names, the children names, and what they look like, that IN ITSELF should tell you something.
...
Oh boy.. a QUIZ!!!
Eddie and Jill... and they have a daughter named... Violet(?) who is old enough to deliver a ukulele on stage... and a littler daughter named... oooohhh... ummmm... Betty Vedder(?)
Mike and Ashley... I only know that because I met Ashley outside of Spaceland and she was very nice and patient while we took pictures with Mike.
Stone and... his blonde wife(?) I don't want to get Stone in trouble or anything, but I think her hair was blonde... or light brown or brown... what do I know... I forget. And they have a daughter (or son) because I saw that interview from that radio station where he was changing a diaper (unless Stone moolights as a nanny).
Matt and... I have no clue. I did see about 7 little blonde girls jump out of a van which I'm guessing was his daughter(s) and her friends or cousins or something.
Jeff and... is Jeff married?
Boom and Pinkie(?) We met in Hawaii.
...
Bonus: Jack Irons and his son... who packs a carries the drums and is in a band... I forget what they are called.
...
aced it. Call me 'Super-Fan'!!!
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
the fact most of us even know the wives names, the children names, and what they look like, that IN ITSELF should tell you something.
...
Oh boy.. a QUIZ!!!
Eddie and Jill... and they have a daughter named... Violet(?) who is old enough to deliver a ukulele on stage... and a littler daughter named... oooohhh... ummmm... Betty Vedder(?)
Mike and Ashley... I only know that because I met Ashley outside of Spaceland and she was very nice and patient while we took pictures with Mike.
Stone and... his blonde wife(?) I don't want to get Stone in trouble or anything, but I think her hair was blonde... or light brown or brown... what do I know... I forget. And they have a daughter (or son) because I saw that interview from that radio station where he was changing a diaper (unless Stone moolights as a nanny).
Matt and... I have no clue. I did see about 7 little blonde girls jump out of a van which I'm guessing was his daughter(s) and her friends or cousins or something.
Jeff and... is Jeff married?
Boom and Pinkie(?) We met in Hawaii.
...
Bonus: Jack Irons and his son... who packs a carries the drums and is in a band... I forget what they are called.
...
aced it. Call me 'Super-Fan'!!!
Nah, you're just a good guy. You get where boundaries are and respect them.
I was talking about this thread with Danny...how I know about Maynard's mother, Judith, through the song of the same name. Information he himself put out there.
How I know that Shannon Hoon's grandmother is (was) Vernie - because he wrote a beautifully sweet song about her.
It's when these things are sought out (why is there a NEED to know?) that I get a bit uncomfortable. It's what fuels the fire of the tabloids.
That said, while I don't watch TMZ, I think Harvey Levin's an OK guy (plus I like his input on the People's Court :P ). I was thinking about him covering the OJ fiasco years ago, which took me back to watching the throngs of people who were practically orgasming while lined up along his "getaway route". And this was well before this age of the insistent and instantaneous transmission of images.
What is this must-see fascination some have? riotgrl mentioned it in another thread (the football team one, I believe), about underlying reasons.
Yes, there's entertainment - even the mindless kind, which I do appreciate from time to time; gotta turn off once in awhile - but there seems to be a weird and wavering line between that and pursuing the next steps. Why?
Anyway...interesting turns in this thread. Makes me think.
Also makes me just wanna go and hit the bowl once or thrice
I think you and others mistake some of it for attention seeking. Whatever you think of Beibers music, the guy clearly isnt looking to be followed while in his car like that, nor when he's out to dinner with a date or going to a grocery store. Thats invasive.
He is not looking for attention when he is driving a ferrari through LA? That to me seems like the definition of looking for attention. Bieber has to know his time in the spotlight won't last for ever so he needs photographers (to keep his name in the news) as much as they need him to make money. And I am not sure about Beiber but I have read more than a few stories about celebrities who actually work with the paparazzi, and forward them their schedules, so that they can always have someone taking their picture and they aren't forgotten. I mean most celebrities have publicists whose whole job description is to make sure their client is getting press coverage.
at this point and time, Bieber doesn't need the media. he's one of the biggest stars on the planet. driving your car through a city is asking for attention? I call that just living your daily life.
Bieber totally needs the media. I mean the dude's fanbase is generally preteen girls, and he has to know that there are 100's of artists before him who were chasing the exact same market and didn't last very long. He needs the media to keep him as famous as possible while he has his fame since I imagine in a few years from now he will be in the same boat as one of the non-Justin Timberlake members of Nsync. According to the 12 year old daughter of a family friend her and all her friends are already moving on and getting into other artists now as it is.
I know, i know... celebrity.. public figure, blah-blah-blah... but, i tell you, seeing what they do... I almost feel sorry for guys like Justin Bieber having to deal with that shit.
Not sure about Bieber specifically but I think a lot of celebrities, at least the ones who are not super talented and famous, actually chase that Paparazzi attention. I mean when was the last time you heard about Johnny Depp or George Cloony being harassed by paparazzi? Those guys are way more famous than Bieber. But neither one of them lives full time in Hollywood and no tabloid is going to send a photographer to rural france to take Depp's picture. Instead it is the C and D list celebrities who go to trendy LA clubs that get photographed. And these are the same people who if not for the attention they get from these magazines would quickly be forgotten by the general public. I mean if you are a celebrity, why the hell would you live in hollywood other than the fact that you crave the attention. I mean sure it is a nice place to live, but there are tons of other super nice places too.
you live in LA because you want to break into the entertainment industry, be an artist, actor, musician etc... As Maynard said, living in LA is horrible if you want to raise a family, but if you have a vision, an artistic vision, its the perfect place, lots of resources.
But he is already famous, so why does he need to live in LA? It is not like he needs to go to auditions or play crappy clubs to get noticed by record labels. He already has all of that. So unless he is trying to get media attention, why even be in LA for any length of time? If you want privacy go out for dinner in Portland or Cleveland and take a rental Ford Taurus or Honda Accord not a ferrari.
Plus why is it that some celebrities get super pissed about photos being taken of them but some can laugh it off so easily? I mean like people have said there have been tabloids as long as there have been movies, so its not like anyone should be surprised that this is the price of fame. And I have seen some stars just laugh it off and realize it is just a picture, so why do others get so pissed off to the point where you hear about stars assaulting people with cameras.
But he is already famous, so why does he need to live in LA? It is not like he needs to go to auditions or play crappy clubs to get noticed by record labels. He already has all of that. So unless he is trying to get media attention, why even be in LA for any length of time? If you want privacy go out for dinner in Portland or Cleveland and take a rental Ford Taurus or Honda Accord not a ferrari.
Plus why is it that some celebrities get super pissed about photos being taken of them but some can laugh it off so easily? I mean like people have said there have been tabloids as long as there have been movies, so its not like anyone should be surprised that this is the price of fame. And I have seen some stars just laugh it off and realize it is just a picture, so why do others get so pissed off to the point where you hear about stars assaulting people with cameras.
why do you live where you live? because you have the freedom to do so. it's where you wish to live.
because some people get sick and tired of cameras in their faces 24/7. I personally can't imagine this. And I don't understand this "it's the price of fame, they know that going in" stuff. So it's their fault North Americans are sickeningly obsessed with movie/tv/music stars and should be expecting this intrusion of privacy because of their line of work?
p-r-i-v-a-c-y
is priceless to me
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not sure about Bieber specifically but I think a lot of celebrities, at least the ones who are not super talented and famous, actually chase that Paparazzi attention. I mean when was the last time you heard about Johnny Depp or George Cloony being harassed by paparazzi? Those guys are way more famous than Bieber. But neither one of them lives full time in Hollywood and no tabloid is going to send a photographer to rural france to take Depp's picture. Instead it is the C and D list celebrities who go to trendy LA clubs that get photographed. And these are the same people who if not for the attention they get from these magazines would quickly be forgotten by the general public. I mean if you are a celebrity, why the hell would you live in hollywood other than the fact that you crave the attention. I mean sure it is a nice place to live, but there are tons of other super nice places too.
you live in LA because you want to break into the entertainment industry, be an artist, actor, musician etc... As Maynard said, living in LA is horrible if you want to raise a family, but if you have a vision, an artistic vision, its the perfect place, lots of resources.
But he is already famous, so why does he need to live in LA? It is not like he needs to go to auditions or play crappy clubs to get noticed by record labels. He already has all of that. So unless he is trying to get media attention, why even be in LA for any length of time? If you want privacy go out for dinner in Portland or Cleveland and take a rental Ford Taurus or Honda Accord not a ferrari.
Plus why is it that some celebrities get super pissed about photos being taken of them but some can laugh it off so easily? I mean like people have said there have been tabloids as long as there have been movies, so its not like anyone should be surprised that this is the price of fame. And I have seen some stars just laugh it off and realize it is just a picture, so why do others get so pissed off to the point where you hear about stars assaulting people with cameras.
Pretty sure his agents and managers and shit are in LA, his record label, etc. Famous people don't live in LA just because of publicity and shit. That is the entertainment capital of the US (and NYC), so all of the business and those who carry out the business is based there, not to mention all the other famous people he works with, i.e., other artists who he collaborates with, etc. For a career like his, it makes perfect sense for him to live in LA. He could do it from elsewhere, but it would make things a lot harder, and he'd be away from all his connections.
I think Bieber absolutely does need the paps to stay as huge as he is. His audience eats that shit for breakfast, and it's how they stay so obsessed. If there was no media for them to devour, they'd drift away. It's not like he has fans like PJ fans. They're little girls and teeny boppers - they need to constantly be fed or else they move on.
(can't believe I'm having a conversation about Justin Bieber's living arrangements, but here I am :fp: ).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Plus why is it that some celebrities get super pissed about photos being taken of them but some can laugh it off so easily? I mean like people have said there have been tabloids as long as there have been movies, so its not like anyone should be surprised that this is the price of fame. And I have seen some stars just laugh it off and realize it is just a picture, so why do others get so pissed off to the point where you hear about stars assaulting people with cameras.
...
There is a huge difference between a person asking to take a picture with someone... let's say, Eddie Vedder, for example... and 100 people wanting to take a picture with Eddie Vedder. After a while, I can see how it would become tiresome. And that's from the standpoint of Artist/Fan.
...
Now, instead of a fan or fans asking for a picture... you have a middle-aged man with several cameras around his neck, shoving a camera in your face with the auto flash on... and it's not a couple of feet away... he is shoving it about 6 inches from your nose... while you are walking... with him, keeping pace... sometimes crossing your path, getting in your way... all the way to you car... where is does not stop and his camera is pressed against the glass and continually firing.
That is what pisses people off and why they occasionally haul off and pop one of those assholes. Because they are assholes doing asshole shit.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Plus why is it that some celebrities get super pissed about photos being taken of them but some can laugh it off so easily? I mean like people have said there have been tabloids as long as there have been movies, so its not like anyone should be surprised that this is the price of fame. And I have seen some stars just laugh it off and realize it is just a picture, so why do others get so pissed off to the point where you hear about stars assaulting people with cameras.
...
There is a huge difference between a person asking to take a picture with someone... let's say, Eddie Vedder, for example... and 100 people wanting to take a picture with Eddie Vedder. After a while, I can see how it would become tiresome. And that's from the standpoint of Artist/Fan.
...
Now, instead of a fan or fans asking for a picture... you have a middle-aged man with several cameras around his neck, shoving a camera in your face with the auto flash on... and it's not a couple of feet away... he is shoving it about 6 inches from your nose... while you are walking... with him, keeping pace... sometimes crossing your path, getting in your way... all the way to you car... where is does not stop and his camera is pressed against the glass and continually firing.
That is what pisses people off and why they occasionally haul off and pop one of those assholes. Because they are assholes doing asshole shit.
exactly. I wouldn't have the temperment to NOT slug those shitheads.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
eds the same way about pictures. people on here will tell you when they see him after the show, he'll have a bodyguard and the bodyguard may say "he isnt taking pictures today". and thats ed's perogative and right. Im sure ed's nice about it, but the idea he has to take photos is something im not sure he'd agree with.
We all have bad days. When we are angry, or dont want to be around people. Celebrities are the same way. But no matter how they feel, the press is hounding them,cameras and mics in their face. Its not hard to see why people would feel trapped and angry and pissed off.
Ed's grown and matured in this department, but shove cameras and mics and bright lights in the 93/94/95 Ed's face and he'd knock your block off. and for good reason too! You could sense it just by reading any interview during that time period.
People here are living in lala land if you think celebrities are required to put up with any of this rubbish. If Bieber or any other celebrity wants to relax, and get some groceries in peace, are you really suggesting they should be denied that right?
Very few people on here are discussing the extent to which paprazzi invade a celebrities space. Im the only person who's discussed the fact paparazzi routinely bother celebrities when they are out and about with their children.
This isnt a noble profession nor does it serve any purpose other than to distract the masses. Theres no reason why Harvey should have pictures of and devote AIRTIME AND WEBSITE SPACE to Hilary Duff getting a latte with her newborn. I mean come on people!
Im of the opinion that if a celebrity is at a movie premiere they are essentially fair game, but if they are in sweats and or yoga pants and are out getting a coffee or shopping at a store, pictures of that stuff shouldnt exist.
Helicopters flying around as celebs are getting married. Pictures of Clooney at his home in france, celebrities getting frozen yogurt, its sickening and gross and disturbing. Anyone involved in either the consumption of it, or the manufacturing of it and promotion of it, should be ashamed of themselves.
Its absolute madness.
Again, the guy was a stalker of Bieber. They knew each other, and had a contentious relationship. The guy chased beiber around town that day because he wanted to capture him smoking pot. This was a case of a pap acting irresponsibly in an effort to get an image of a celebrity supposedly smoking pot in his car. Absolutely ridiculous
You seemed to put Clooney and Depp up there as people who dont attract press attention and who dont care if their picture is taken. Both premises are ludicrous. Why dont you follow the press next time Clooney and his lady friend go to his house in France. And then hide in the bushes and snap photos of him. Im sure he'd be glad to welcome you into his house and would be delighted to see you! And Depp, next time he's out walking with his children, why dont you join up with some press, and see what Depps reaction would be if you got in his familys face, took photos of him, asked him a ton of questions and were intrusive. Again, Im sure Depp would be absolutely thrilled to see you and interact with you.
Its basic human decency. If you are in someones space, and they dont want you there, its the next logical step to say "hey this guy doesnt want me here, im going to leave him alone and leave".
I laid out 5 basic rules that are simple. How hard is it to follow those? You ask first, if they say no, you leave them alone, if they say yes, you limit your time, and you dont intrude. Thats basic human interaction and relationship stuff.
Its gross that there are people who believe celebrities arent owed free/private/down time to relax and spend with family and that they are forever beholden to us the public. So if someone is in the newest box office hit, they are denied time to be just human and do basic human things like go to the store and buy onions? Really?
These guys wouldn't be in business if there weren't a profitable market for their product, whether it's keeping someone in the public eye for PR purposes, or giving the people what they usually, unfortunately, want.
paparazzi are blind. If you speed up to catch up with a celebrity, and they walk about, or drive away, what is the logical next step? Is it to continue to tail and follow and harass the celebrity?
What would you say if someone got in your face and took your photo and wouldnt leave you alone? If you told them, leave me alone, Im not into talking to you. What would happen if that person continued following you and taking your picture? And when you got in your car they followed you. Every time you said leave me alone, it fell on deaf ears. I know alot of people, including some pretty easy going people, who would be at wits end.
What would happen if that was a daily occurance? How would your life, or mental state or emotional state change as a result? And if naive people told you "oh poor little rich girl, you make 15 million a year and your complaining?". What if people actually told you, you had to put up with it, and that it was all part of the deal?
Bieber didnt want his photo taken. All it took was this guy to read body language and that would be that
These guys wouldn't be in business if there weren't a profitable market for their product, whether it's keeping someone in the public eye for PR purposes, or giving the people what they usually, unfortunately, want.
Im talking about anyone in this thread who disagrees with the premise that celebrities are human too, they deserve private lives where they arent followed, tailed, bothered, or in the spotlight. That they deserve privacy, and should be allowed to go get a magazine at the store or go to the beach with their children without having to deal with paparazzi getting in their personal space. And that if a celebrity doesnt want to have their photo taken, that the press should respect that.
If you disagree with any of that, i think you are off your rocker.
The fact is no artist is promoting 24.7. Next time ed's at the store with his daughters and wife, would it wise of you to grab 20 other photographers, take photos of him and his family, ask him a million questions, and tail him and chase him in the car. What exactly would be his response? What would any humans response to that be?
People act like this is some sort of video game or movie. Its not. Is peoples lives. Its absolutely surreal that anyone would have the guts to argue on here that the next time jennifer garners at Target with her kid and Ben Affleck, that the paparazzi not only have the right to bother him and get in their space, but that its ethically and morally okay and that its essentially part and parcel of being a celebrity.
Its sad to me that people have that little amount of respect for a human being that their feathers dont ruffle when they see celebrities private lives exposed and not respected like that. Takes alot of temerity to argue that the press harassing and wildly chasing another celebrity in a car, which could kill the star, the press, or our family members and innocent bystanders, that this sort of behavior is ok. To me, thats insanity.
plus everyone here is just big talkers. If they actually practiced what they preached, they'd be in jail or arrested. You as a private citizen couldnt get away with treating anyone like that, let alone a celebrity. You really think if you went up to Sean Penn and acted like the paps do that it would be ok and that you wouldnt get into serious trouble, even serious legal and criminal trouble?
Its criminal behavior plain and simple. Whoever was the Tmz advocate is strange. These people get paid to take pictures of celebrities pumping gas at a gas station. And your telling me its an honest and decent living?
These guys wouldn't be in business if there weren't a profitable market for their product, whether it's keeping someone in the public eye for PR purposes, or giving the people what they usually, unfortunately, want.
Im talking about anyone in this thread who disagrees with the premise that celebrities are human too, they deserve private lives where they arent followed, tailed, bothered, or in the spotlight. That they deserve privacy, and should be allowed to go get a magazine at the store or go to the beach with their children without having to deal with paparazzi getting in their personal space. And that if a celebrity doesnt want to have their photo taken, that the press should respect that.
If you disagree with any of that, i think you are off your rocker.
The fact is no artist is promoting 24.7. Next time ed's at the store with his daughters and wife, would it wise of you to grab 20 other photographers, take photos of him and his family, ask him a million questions, and tail him and chase him in the car. What exactly would be his response? What would any humans response to that be?
People act like this is some sort of video game or movie. Its not. Is peoples lives. Its absolutely surreal that anyone would have the guts to argue on here that the next time jennifer garners at Target with her kid and Ben Affleck, that the paparazzi not only have the right to bother him and get in their space, but that its ethically and morally okay and that its essentially part and parcel of being a celebrity.
Its sad to me that people have that little amount of respect for a human being that their feathers dont ruffle when they see celebrities private lives exposed and not respected like that. Takes alot of temerity to argue that the press harassing and wildly chasing another celebrity in a car, which could kill the star, the press, or our family members and innocent bystanders, that this sort of behavior is ok. To me, thats insanity.
I don't think anyone here has been acting like they don't think celebrities are human or like they don't respect human beings.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Jodie Foster's speech at the Golden Globes made me think of this thread and kind of proves my point. I mean Jodie Foster is a huge star (and up until a few years ago was one of only a few actresses who could open a movie big based on her name alone) she is also gay and is close personal friends with Mel Gibson. To me tabloids would eat that up if possible, but her face isn't on US weekly and the Enquirer every week. To me that proves there are ways for celebrities to avoid paparizzi attention.
To me that proves there are ways for celebrities to avoid paparizzi attention.
Agreed. Hey, let's get real here. These guys that make asses of themselves shooting a million pictures and selling them to tabloids are clearly annoyances to celebrities; but they are part in parcel.
Every job has qualities that leave much to be desired about. The lifestyle afforded to the 'rich and famous' comes with a bit of a price. Although susceptible to 'openings'... stars can do many things that make them less accessible.
And Hugh... come on: you can't be serious. You are an outspoken opponent of the death penalty. You say you're having a hard time feeling sorry for this photographer, but his crime pales in comparison to some of the 'other' people's that you have suggested deserve better.
The photographer might have been obnoxious, but he was Bieber's problem and business- not ours. Away from the camera, he could have been a really good guy. He didn't deserve death for shooting pictures- maybe a slap to the head or a good lod fashion noogey... but not death.
And Hugh... come on: you can't be serious. You are an outspoken opponent of the death penalty. You say you're having a hard time feeling sorry for this photographer, but his crime pales in comparison to some of the 'other' people's that you have suggested deserve better.
The photographer might have been obnoxious, but he was Bieber's problem and business- not ours. Away from the camera, he could have been a really good guy. He didn't deserve death for shooting pictures- maybe a slap to the head or a good lod fashion noogey... but not death.
I'm not saying that I applaud the guy's death. Far from it. All I said was I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who is dealt consequences of their behaviour. No one deserves to die as a result, I just have trouble feeling sorry for someone dying as a result of harassing someone. There's a BIG difference between the two.
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And Hugh... come on: you can't be serious. You are an outspoken opponent of the death penalty. You say you're having a hard time feeling sorry for this photographer, but his crime pales in comparison to some of the 'other' people's that you have suggested deserve better.
The photographer might have been obnoxious, but he was Bieber's problem and business- not ours. Away from the camera, he could have been a really good guy. He didn't deserve death for shooting pictures- maybe a slap to the head or a good lod fashion noogey... but not death.
I'm not saying that I applaud the guy's death. Far from it. All I said was I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who is dealt consequences of their behaviour. No one deserves to die as a result, I just have trouble feeling sorry for someone dying as a result of harassing someone. There's a BIG difference between the two.
I never said you applauded it. It's just kind of curious that you would be kind of unsympathetic for this guy.
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when Ed and Jill got married, it was very much under the radar. someone started a thread about it, and the mods let it go for a while, and then locked it with a happy message but saying that it is private and it's time to close it. it should have been locked immediately. that's the contradiction I'm talking about.
being human? there's nothing inherently human about wanting to know about the lives of people you don't know personally.
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But they are public places... Anyway, don't misunderstand me. I don't think it's all cool (as I say, I like TMZ, but just because those people on the show are really likeable (and they talk about lots of stuff away from celebrities, actually; often, the celebrity just reminds them about something unrelated). I understand that the paps industry is slimy. However, what they do is legal, and it is a big money maker. We don't have to respect it, but until laws are created to keep them from following people in public places and legally taking photos of them in public places, then I don't see how we can really justify vilifying them either, unless they are endangering other people's safety, like they were with that Bieber car chase last summer, or when Princess Di was killed, or those photos of Kate topless while in a private compound (charges are being sought in all of those cases).
Anyway, it's a funny industry. It is totally a fact that the paps are necessary for many celebrities' careers. And at the same time they hate them... Seems to me a real love/hate relationship.[/quote]
doesnt seem to hard to understand from my point of view. You honestly dont see a difference between paparazzi taking a million photos at the oscar red carpet, and a celebrity yelling at photographers to leave them and their child alone as they look for broccoli at the supermarket? How else do celebrities live and exist? Theres got to be a way for them to be able to be away from the
again, you talk to ed next time outside a venue. Ask him if he'd be alright with having 20 photographers chase his car around town, taking pictures of his family, yelling at him, flashbulbs in his face, and then chasing him a car. Are you honestly telling me he'd say 'well its what i signed up for"? Really? You cant really think that can you?
I think most celebrities would say that if the paparazzi industry died tomorrow, they wouldnt shed a tear. its invasive, gross, and serves absolutely no purpose. When Harvey gathers all those paps in a huddle for TMZ and talks to them, what purpose or meaning do we get by some guy saying "I have big news harvey, i spotted Kim Kardashian at starbucks today. We asked her how Kanye was and what the babies name will be". What purpose does it serve? And you honestly think those people make an honest living?
Those arent public moments, those are private moments of private lives. What right does any photographer have to throw a mic and flashbulbs in someones face as they are walking their child to school and ask them about inane information thats only gleaned to get gullible audiences to tune into the show, to increase hits to the site, and to hopefully be used as source by other outlets. Cnn reporting that Hilary Duff says she is tired of acting, this information gleaned from TMZ press as she left a daycare center. Thats a made up statement but thats the sort of junk that passes for
Its stuff made to attract people. Quick flash cut images, bright lights, catchy worded headlines and pull quotes. This is designed to sell stuff. However, i dont think its the celebrities work thats being marketed. rather the celebrities image without consent is being sold.
As for the wedding thing... meh. I seriously doubt that Eddie cared. One little thread with fans congratulating them? I don't think that exactly made him flip out, especially when all it took to stop it was for them to lock the thread and politely ask people to stop it.
i posted about this last page. And i dont see it as a contradiction. I just see it as people being myopic. People designating some celebrities as money grubbers and others as "genuine". People posting personal stuff about the band or other bands.
We all know what peoples wives look like, their kids, their family members names. And it happens daily on this very board. We know personal details about the band.
Its the same thing as the shootings this last month. As long as we label the problem as "others", mentally ill people for example, crazy people, then we as "normal" people dont have to deal with it and can lay the blame on others and dont have to change our ways. People dont like to think of themselves as a problem. As long as we can blame the problem on paps who chase celebrities, then we are fine. I wasnt out chasing bieber the other night, so what responsibility do i have in all this, is the thinking alot of people seem to have.
I think **most** fans understand and respect the line between artist and fan. The understanding is that the stage is theirs, not ours. We have a seat in the audience, which is where we belong. Leastwise, I hope most do.
One thing I find creepy... is when some fans claim to understand an artist... one they have never met in person. Not like in the songs have special connections or meanings to the fan... but, more like claiming to know the artist. That's the creepy, 'We have a connection' kind of talk that you typically hear coming from a stalker or something.
And i have heard that kind of stuff amongst the Pearl Jam ranks. Kind of creepy to me.
Hail, Hail!!!
The celebrities who flat out just dont appear at red carpets and dont do interviews are viewed as freaks, and that only fuels interest in them more. Ever heard of Salinger or Harper Lee? Syd Barrett? Jeff mangum?
so no matter what is done either hiding in obscurity and reclusiveness or promoting yourself, no matter whats done people deal with this nonsense of paparazzi
Oh boy.. a QUIZ!!!
Eddie and Jill... and they have a daughter named... Violet(?) who is old enough to deliver a ukulele on stage... and a littler daughter named... oooohhh... ummmm... Betty Vedder(?)
Mike and Ashley... I only know that because I met Ashley outside of Spaceland and she was very nice and patient while we took pictures with Mike.
Stone and... his blonde wife(?) I don't want to get Stone in trouble or anything, but I think her hair was blonde... or light brown or brown... what do I know... I forget. And they have a daughter (or son) because I saw that interview from that radio station where he was changing a diaper (unless Stone moolights as a nanny).
Matt and... I have no clue. I did see about 7 little blonde girls jump out of a van which I'm guessing was his daughter(s) and her friends or cousins or something.
Jeff and... is Jeff married?
Boom and Pinkie(?) We met in Hawaii.
...
Bonus: Jack Irons and his son... who packs a carries the drums and is in a band... I forget what they are called.
...
aced it. Call me 'Super-Fan'!!!
Hail, Hail!!!
I was talking about this thread with Danny...how I know about Maynard's mother, Judith, through the song of the same name. Information he himself put out there.
How I know that Shannon Hoon's grandmother is (was) Vernie - because he wrote a beautifully sweet song about her.
It's when these things are sought out (why is there a NEED to know?) that I get a bit uncomfortable. It's what fuels the fire of the tabloids.
That said, while I don't watch TMZ, I think Harvey Levin's an OK guy (plus I like his input on the People's Court :P ). I was thinking about him covering the OJ fiasco years ago, which took me back to watching the throngs of people who were practically orgasming while lined up along his "getaway route". And this was well before this age of the insistent and instantaneous transmission of images.
What is this must-see fascination some have? riotgrl mentioned it in another thread (the football team one, I believe), about underlying reasons.
Yes, there's entertainment - even the mindless kind, which I do appreciate from time to time; gotta turn off once in awhile - but there seems to be a weird and wavering line between that and pursuing the next steps. Why?
Anyway...interesting turns in this thread. Makes me think.
Also makes me just wanna go and hit the bowl once or thrice
here here!
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Bieber totally needs the media. I mean the dude's fanbase is generally preteen girls, and he has to know that there are 100's of artists before him who were chasing the exact same market and didn't last very long. He needs the media to keep him as famous as possible while he has his fame since I imagine in a few years from now he will be in the same boat as one of the non-Justin Timberlake members of Nsync. According to the 12 year old daughter of a family friend her and all her friends are already moving on and getting into other artists now as it is.
But he is already famous, so why does he need to live in LA? It is not like he needs to go to auditions or play crappy clubs to get noticed by record labels. He already has all of that. So unless he is trying to get media attention, why even be in LA for any length of time? If you want privacy go out for dinner in Portland or Cleveland and take a rental Ford Taurus or Honda Accord not a ferrari.
Plus why is it that some celebrities get super pissed about photos being taken of them but some can laugh it off so easily? I mean like people have said there have been tabloids as long as there have been movies, so its not like anyone should be surprised that this is the price of fame. And I have seen some stars just laugh it off and realize it is just a picture, so why do others get so pissed off to the point where you hear about stars assaulting people with cameras.
why do you live where you live? because you have the freedom to do so. it's where you wish to live.
because some people get sick and tired of cameras in their faces 24/7. I personally can't imagine this. And I don't understand this "it's the price of fame, they know that going in" stuff. So it's their fault North Americans are sickeningly obsessed with movie/tv/music stars and should be expecting this intrusion of privacy because of their line of work?
p-r-i-v-a-c-y
is priceless to me
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I think Bieber absolutely does need the paps to stay as huge as he is. His audience eats that shit for breakfast, and it's how they stay so obsessed. If there was no media for them to devour, they'd drift away. It's not like he has fans like PJ fans. They're little girls and teeny boppers - they need to constantly be fed or else they move on.
(can't believe I'm having a conversation about Justin Bieber's living arrangements, but here I am :fp: ).
There is a huge difference between a person asking to take a picture with someone... let's say, Eddie Vedder, for example... and 100 people wanting to take a picture with Eddie Vedder. After a while, I can see how it would become tiresome. And that's from the standpoint of Artist/Fan.
...
Now, instead of a fan or fans asking for a picture... you have a middle-aged man with several cameras around his neck, shoving a camera in your face with the auto flash on... and it's not a couple of feet away... he is shoving it about 6 inches from your nose... while you are walking... with him, keeping pace... sometimes crossing your path, getting in your way... all the way to you car... where is does not stop and his camera is pressed against the glass and continually firing.
That is what pisses people off and why they occasionally haul off and pop one of those assholes. Because they are assholes doing asshole shit.
Hail, Hail!!!
exactly. I wouldn't have the temperment to NOT slug those shitheads.
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We all have bad days. When we are angry, or dont want to be around people. Celebrities are the same way. But no matter how they feel, the press is hounding them,cameras and mics in their face. Its not hard to see why people would feel trapped and angry and pissed off.
Ed's grown and matured in this department, but shove cameras and mics and bright lights in the 93/94/95 Ed's face and he'd knock your block off. and for good reason too! You could sense it just by reading any interview during that time period.
People here are living in lala land if you think celebrities are required to put up with any of this rubbish. If Bieber or any other celebrity wants to relax, and get some groceries in peace, are you really suggesting they should be denied that right?
Very few people on here are discussing the extent to which paprazzi invade a celebrities space. Im the only person who's discussed the fact paparazzi routinely bother celebrities when they are out and about with their children.
This isnt a noble profession nor does it serve any purpose other than to distract the masses. Theres no reason why Harvey should have pictures of and devote AIRTIME AND WEBSITE SPACE to Hilary Duff getting a latte with her newborn. I mean come on people!
Im of the opinion that if a celebrity is at a movie premiere they are essentially fair game, but if they are in sweats and or yoga pants and are out getting a coffee or shopping at a store, pictures of that stuff shouldnt exist.
Helicopters flying around as celebs are getting married. Pictures of Clooney at his home in france, celebrities getting frozen yogurt, its sickening and gross and disturbing. Anyone involved in either the consumption of it, or the manufacturing of it and promotion of it, should be ashamed of themselves.
Its absolute madness.
Again, the guy was a stalker of Bieber. They knew each other, and had a contentious relationship. The guy chased beiber around town that day because he wanted to capture him smoking pot. This was a case of a pap acting irresponsibly in an effort to get an image of a celebrity supposedly smoking pot in his car. Absolutely ridiculous
Its basic human decency. If you are in someones space, and they dont want you there, its the next logical step to say "hey this guy doesnt want me here, im going to leave him alone and leave".
I laid out 5 basic rules that are simple. How hard is it to follow those? You ask first, if they say no, you leave them alone, if they say yes, you limit your time, and you dont intrude. Thats basic human interaction and relationship stuff.
Its gross that there are people who believe celebrities arent owed free/private/down time to relax and spend with family and that they are forever beholden to us the public. So if someone is in the newest box office hit, they are denied time to be just human and do basic human things like go to the store and buy onions? Really?
And people wonder why celebrities go crazy!
Wow!
These guys wouldn't be in business if there weren't a profitable market for their product, whether it's keeping someone in the public eye for PR purposes, or giving the people what they usually, unfortunately, want.
What would you say if someone got in your face and took your photo and wouldnt leave you alone? If you told them, leave me alone, Im not into talking to you. What would happen if that person continued following you and taking your picture? And when you got in your car they followed you. Every time you said leave me alone, it fell on deaf ears. I know alot of people, including some pretty easy going people, who would be at wits end.
What would happen if that was a daily occurance? How would your life, or mental state or emotional state change as a result? And if naive people told you "oh poor little rich girl, you make 15 million a year and your complaining?". What if people actually told you, you had to put up with it, and that it was all part of the deal?
Bieber didnt want his photo taken. All it took was this guy to read body language and that would be that
Im talking about anyone in this thread who disagrees with the premise that celebrities are human too, they deserve private lives where they arent followed, tailed, bothered, or in the spotlight. That they deserve privacy, and should be allowed to go get a magazine at the store or go to the beach with their children without having to deal with paparazzi getting in their personal space. And that if a celebrity doesnt want to have their photo taken, that the press should respect that.
If you disagree with any of that, i think you are off your rocker.
The fact is no artist is promoting 24.7. Next time ed's at the store with his daughters and wife, would it wise of you to grab 20 other photographers, take photos of him and his family, ask him a million questions, and tail him and chase him in the car. What exactly would be his response? What would any humans response to that be?
People act like this is some sort of video game or movie. Its not. Is peoples lives. Its absolutely surreal that anyone would have the guts to argue on here that the next time jennifer garners at Target with her kid and Ben Affleck, that the paparazzi not only have the right to bother him and get in their space, but that its ethically and morally okay and that its essentially part and parcel of being a celebrity.
Its sad to me that people have that little amount of respect for a human being that their feathers dont ruffle when they see celebrities private lives exposed and not respected like that. Takes alot of temerity to argue that the press harassing and wildly chasing another celebrity in a car, which could kill the star, the press, or our family members and innocent bystanders, that this sort of behavior is ok. To me, thats insanity.
Its criminal behavior plain and simple. Whoever was the Tmz advocate is strange. These people get paid to take pictures of celebrities pumping gas at a gas station. And your telling me its an honest and decent living?
Agreed. Hey, let's get real here. These guys that make asses of themselves shooting a million pictures and selling them to tabloids are clearly annoyances to celebrities; but they are part in parcel.
Every job has qualities that leave much to be desired about. The lifestyle afforded to the 'rich and famous' comes with a bit of a price. Although susceptible to 'openings'... stars can do many things that make them less accessible.
And Hugh... come on: you can't be serious. You are an outspoken opponent of the death penalty. You say you're having a hard time feeling sorry for this photographer, but his crime pales in comparison to some of the 'other' people's that you have suggested deserve better.
The photographer might have been obnoxious, but he was Bieber's problem and business- not ours. Away from the camera, he could have been a really good guy. He didn't deserve death for shooting pictures- maybe a slap to the head or a good lod fashion noogey... but not death.
I'm not saying that I applaud the guy's death. Far from it. All I said was I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who is dealt consequences of their behaviour. No one deserves to die as a result, I just have trouble feeling sorry for someone dying as a result of harassing someone. There's a BIG difference between the two.
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I never said you applauded it. It's just kind of curious that you would be kind of unsympathetic for this guy.