the abuse of women by Islamic extremists or otherwise

chadwick

the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"

and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.

fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.

and by the way
under the video section of this youtube video at the beginning they have stated the following and have blocked comments from others. i'd like to get the dvd. also how about that girl gunned down for wanting an education? anyone got any updates on her recovery?

We were a great nation, we were proud, we were leaders in everything, we were Iran. Now look at us post-1979, the IRI is destroying our nation and we are going to take it back from these animals. Equal rights for men and women.

Mirrored from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpL3IobaSU
"Iranian women living in Sweden telling a horrific story about the Islamic regime in her home country.

In swedish but with english subtitle.

This is a short clip from the film: Sweden - Children of Islam (2007) by Journeyman Pictures.

You can buy the DVD here:

http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=57715"

fuck

Jason P wrote:

fuck wrote:

Oh, give me a fucking break. As if Timothy McVay changed the perception of Christianity in the U.S. People still feel comfortable saying Christianity does not necessarily cause this and that the extremism of others is very minimal. Islam is a whole other story.

Quit acting like this is a normal reaction of Americans to 9/11 to be this prejudiced against Islam. The fact is, Islam has long been seen as 'the other.' Just look at Huntington's notion of the clash of civilizations. The West is supposed to have that Judeo-Christian heritage that only recognizes Islam as foreign. Throughout the past several hundred years, since colonialism, so much misinformation about Islam has been prevalent throughout society. It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that it's simply a reaction to 9/11. That's not to suggest that 9/11 did not mark a turning point, but all it did was add more fuel to the flames of arrogance and misconceptions that were already burning--ironically, they were burning in the first place due to U.S. foreign policy.

HA!

Tim is your retort? As if he did his deeds in the name of religion...

:fp:



We don't care about anybody unless they are helping or hurting us.

People of your mindset claim the US is screwing everybody. Why is it that South Americans aren't flying commercial airplanes into our buildings? Or Europeans? Or South Africans? Or anybody else that has sanity???

:think:

Is it ludicrous to think that religion was the factor??? Or is it sane to think that normal human-beings had their minds poisoned by the interpretation of a book???

Your post is riddled with factual errors, contradictions, and a tinge of racism (or perhaps exceptionalism). Allow me to explain:

1. If you don't want to accept the Oklahoma City Bombing as an example, then there are still the bombing of abortion clinics, and a ton of other acts done "in the name of religion." But when it comes to "Western" religion, people are able to separate the egregious acts from what is actually acceptable. This is not the case with Islam.

Your second sentence-paragraph adds nothing to the conversation.

Don't make assumptions of what mindset I am. That's just a poor way to have a discussion. Also, the fact that you restrict your category of people who have no sanity in the world solely to extremists from the Muslim world is what I meant by a tinge of racism. I don't get it, just because a group of crazy people took out an attack like 9/11, they're the only ones who are insane in the world? The American troops who bombed Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia to bits are, what, sane? No, it's just the ones who flew planes into a building that set the marker for insanity. If perhaps they had some more technology and were able to fly drones over our heads and assassinate us with a remote control, well, then they would be civilized.

France, the U.K., and the U.S. for hundreds of years raped, killed and pillaged other countries (colonies) in the same of liberalism, democracy and freedom. This is still going on. Why are we able to separate the actors from what they claim to be acting in the name of when it comes to Western ideals, but when it comes to Islam we argue "No, they are doing this because of Islam."

You really want to have a discussion about whether religion was the factor? Why don't you actually engage the texts, like the Qur'an and Prophetic reports? Until you do, and so long as you keep citing examples of just random crazies in another part of the world that you don't understand, you'll just keep spreading misconceptions happily. Which I suppose is fine. Some people really do enjoy bullshitting.

fuck

chadwick wrote:

the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"

and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.

fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.

This is what I mean in the earlier post--you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women--in all parts of the world--to make all-encompassing judgments on their basis is absurd. Furthermore, this poor woman's story, while sad, does not make her an expert on Islam in any way whatsoever, just as an Iraqi whose house was bombed and family massacred by U.S. troops does not make him or her an expert on Western liberalism.

Jason P

fuck wrote:

Your post is riddled with factual errors, contradictions, and a tinge of racism (or perhaps exceptionalism). Allow me to explain:

1. If you don't want to accept the Oklahoma City Bombing as an example, then there are still the bombing of abortion clinics, and a ton of other acts done "in the name of religion." But when it comes to "Western" religion, people are able to separate the egregious acts from what is actually acceptable. This is not the case with Islam.

Your second sentence-paragraph adds nothing to the conversation.

Don't make assumptions of what mindset I am. That's just a poor way to have a discussion. Also, the fact that you restrict your category of people who have no sanity in the world solely to extremists from the Muslim world is what I meant by a tinge of racism. I don't get it, just because a group of crazy people took out an attack like 9/11, they're the only ones who are insane in the world? The American troops who bombed Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia to bits are, what, sane? No, it's just the ones who flew planes into a building that set the marker for insanity. If perhaps they had some more technology and were able to fly drones over our heads and assassinate us with a remote control, well, then they would be civilized.

France, the U.K., and the U.S. for hundreds of years raped, killed and pillaged other countries (colonies) in the same of liberalism, democracy and freedom. This is still going on. Why are we able to separate the actors from what they claim to be acting in the name of when it comes to Western ideals, but when it comes to Islam we argue "No, they are doing this because of Islam."

You really want to have a discussion about whether religion was the factor? Why don't you actually engage the texts, like the Qur'an and Prophetic reports? Until you do, and so long as you keep citing examples of just random crazies in another part of the world that you don't understand, you'll just keep spreading misconceptions happily. Which I suppose is fine. Some people really do enjoy bullshitting.

As a civilized society, I want to see us moving forward, not backward. I can't defend the past. Heck, a hundred years ago women couldn't even vote in the US ... a notion that seems beyond ridiculous to me.

There are a lot of kooks in all religions. In the US, the major religions primarily use shame as their choice weapon. You have the nutjob every year or so bomb a clinic, but it isn't celebrated and it isn't widespread.

I think we should judge and judge hard when society is moving backwards. The treatment of women and homosexuals is horrible and inexcusable. Sorry if that comes out as racism in your opinion.

Also, I support pulling our troops out of many countries and doing a massive defense spending cuts. I judge my leaders and judge hard as well.

chadwick

fuck wrote:

chadwick wrote:

the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"

and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.

fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.

This is what I mean in the earlier post--you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women--in all parts of the world--to make all-encompassing judgments on their basis is absurd. Furthermore, this poor woman's story, while sad, does not make her an expert on Islam in any way whatsoever, just as an Iraqi whose house was bombed and family massacred by U.S. troops does not make him or her an expert on Western liberalism.

yeah i'm sure she knows zero of Islam. i find your comment on calling her an actor quite fucked the fuck up, sir/miss.

(yeah i do not know if you are male or female)

chadwick

it is a fact that women in the middle east have less rights than most anywhere else on earth. at least in china, north korea, & cuba their women can wear regular clothing and not need to be covered. and if raped in cuba, north korea or china are they thrown in prison or stoned to death?

i asked this question the other day...

if a women is raped in poland is she punished by imprisonment, lashings or stoning?

JOEJOEJOE

chadwick wrote:

fuck wrote:

chadwick wrote:

the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"

and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.

fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.

This is what I mean in the earlier post--you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women--in all parts of the world--to make all-encompassing judgments on their basis is absurd. Furthermore, this poor woman's story, while sad, does not make her an expert on Islam in any way whatsoever, just as an Iraqi whose house was bombed and family massacred by U.S. troops does not make him or her an expert on Western liberalism.

yeah i'm sure she knows zero of Islam. i find your comment on calling her an actor quite fucked the fuck up, sir/miss.

(yeah i do not know if you are male or female)

I wonder if the poor woman's view on Islam would have been given more credibility by "F*ck" if said woman's views on Islam were more positive?

Who Princess

I'm not sure if "actor" was meant as someone who portrays a role (a Hollywood actor) but as some who carries out an action (act-or).

The post is complicated to respond to but I didn't take away from it the idea that the woman in the video was accused of being an actress rather than an actual victim.

even flow - question mark

chadwick wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbGYPMDgG4I&feature=share&list=PL865E4220A411C9E1
she wouldn't wear her hijab clothing so they imprisoned her for 3 years. during her 2nd year there three men raped & beated her. they broke her leg and almost had her leg removed somehow. she awoke to find maggots in her wounded leg.

she says Islam is the most horrible thing she has experienced & that Islam is rape, failure & that women are somehow half and not human beings

what the fuck is wrong with those guys of the Islamic ways? what a nasty group

This story is almost as good as this quote from another thread........

Debating Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) in their final Senate race showdown, a questioner asked them and Libertarian candidate Andrew Horning to explain their views on abortion.

All three said they were anti-abortion. But Mourdock went the further, putting himself in territory near Missouri GOP Senate candidate Rep. Todd Akin, the anti-abortion congressman who infamously asserted that women don't get pregnant from "legitimate rape."

WHAT MUSLIM COUNTRY DID THIS BABY COME FROM?

JOEJOEJOE

Who Princess wrote:

I'm not sure if "actor" was meant as someone who portrays a role (a Hollywood actor) but as some who carries out an action (act-or).

The post is complicated to respond to but I didn't take away from it the idea that the woman in the video was accused of being an actress rather than an actual victim.

I see your point....I changed my question accordingly.

fuck

Who Princess wrote:

I'm not sure if "actor" was meant as someone who portrays a role (a Hollywood actor) but as some who carries out an action (act-or).

Bingo. I meant the ones who committed the heinous acts against her. I even sympathized with her later in my post.

fuck

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

I wonder if the poor woman's view on Islam would have been given more credibility by "F*ck" if said woman's views on Islam were more positive?

That's a cute question. Let me try and understand its premise. You mean, even after certain crazies did what they did, said woman would have a positive view on Islam? I guess, you're right, I would give her more credibility. Why? Because it would show that even despite her awful experience she's still rationally understanding the various nuances at play here, that is, Islam did not rape her, a group of insane men did. Now, I don't think she should be held accountable to being entirely rational--she very clearly went through an incredibly traumatic experience and that type of shit will often affect people in the wrong way. But, I don't think her awful experience makes her a credible expert on Islam, for the tons of reasons I've stated in this thread already.

chadwick

i'm pretty sure you meant she was an actor being overly dramatic about her islam & prison experience

chadwick

i challenge you or anyone for that matter to find us one woman who loves being treated in this fashion. find us one woman who enjoys islam & the like from over there in the middle eastern countries.

fuck

chadwick wrote:

it is a fact that women in the middle east have less rights than most anywhere else on earth. at least in china, north korea, & cuba their women can wear regular clothing and not need to be covered. and if raped in cuba, north korea or china are they thrown in prison or stoned to death?

i asked this question the other day...

if a women is raped in poland is she punished by imprisonment, lashings or stoning?

You're not arguing this methodically. All I am saying here is that if you do want to go beyond simply blaming people, and blame the religion of Islam for this, you have to follow a methodology:

A -> B -> C -> D

In a case of , say, the Taliban mistreating a woman: the woman is A, she was affected by B, men from the Taliban. The men are allowed to do this due to C, the governing powers that be (the group itself). Finally, D represents the driving ambition or motive. What is causing them to do this? They claim in some instances they do it in the name of Islam. Well, this is where real investigative work is necessary. The woman A can credibly explain what B did to her, but she doesn't necessarily have credibility when it comes to D, that is, WHY they did it. And her experience certainly does not make her some kind of expert.

You wanna really blame Islam on this? Explain D.
Explain what these people cite specifically in the Islamic texts -- the Qur'an and the Prophetic Reports. Explain why their interpretation is even logical, and not a gross (and likely intentional) exaggeration made to preserve a misogynistic culture--a misogynistic culture unrelated and which would exist despite the Islamic reference. Until such an argument is made, saying Islam is to blame is pure conjecture and an entirely polemical argument.

fuck

chadwick wrote:

i'm pretty sure you meant she was an actor being overly dramatic about her islam & prison experience

Let's have a reading exercise:

from my earlier post wrote:

you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women

Notice an association? I even put it in bold. :roll:

fuck

chadwick wrote:

i challenge you or anyone for that matter to find us one woman who loves being treated in this fashion. find us one woman who enjoys islam & the like from over there in the middle eastern countries.

Is this a real question? I see I wasn't far off when I said the duty here is for white men to save brown women from brown men.

chadwick

find us a woman, one single lone brave soul who is thrilled to be with her man whom is of the Islamic religion.

chadwick

fuck wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i challenge you or anyone for that matter to find us one woman who loves being treated in this fashion. find us one woman who enjoys islam & the like from over there in the middle eastern countries.

Is this a real question? I see I wasn't far off when I said the duty here is for white men to save brown women from brown men.

what is so hysterical laughing person?

it is a direct & simple question. go search the internet for thrilled woman whom stand next to islamic madman. please show us this woman.

chadwick

she does not exist