Well, one big reason Islam beat out the polytheism of Arabia during the 7th century was the fact that it was a social movement as well--calling for economic justice, fighting the notion of 'class.' It was not strange to see a Muslim man buy a Muslim slave who was being persecuted by his polytheistic owner for his conversion, and then free him. Moreover, while lots of the earlier Qur'anic verses stressed God's monotheism, the verses also stressed economic and social justice. Moreover, the fact that the first 13 years of Muhammad's mission was carried out entirely peaceful, despite the huge persecution Muslims were getting (similar to Jesus) earned him a lot of support. It was only until far later when the Muslims were in a position of power and had their own city-state in Medina that you see verses that had more of a 'legislative' nature to them. Furthermore, the fact that Muslims had a sense of religious pluralism with other monotheistic faiths in the beginning (evidenced, for example, by the Constitution of Medina) helped earn them support. Finally, when Muhammad conquered Mecca, and the Islamic empire began to grow, conversion was convenient to many others.
As for why Christianity won out, I'm sure the adoption of the religion by the Roman Empire had a lot to do with it.
aah yes conquest.. always an awesome thing when wanting to promote ones ideals and beliefs.
hear my name
take a good look
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men worldwide are cruel to women. the middle east is a clusterfuck of harsh bullshit & wars over religion, land, oil & what have you. anyone who believes for a moment that women are equals over there should maybe consider visiting those countries who are famous for oppressing women, maybe you'll stay beings it is so lovely. i'll guarantee you something, there is not a woman in the 10 club community who would spend a great deal of time in the middle east alone or with someone. in fact she would most probably run away from the idea.
i will admit i do not know much about muslim & islam. but i do know the women are second class citizens as are the women of china and female new borns... it is a circus act in china & other oriental countries. what country treats their women well?
many powerful women here in the u.s. how are the spanish speaking countries treating their women? europe? can a woman be stoned to death for being raped in russia? if a woman is raped in poland is she punished by imprisonment?
If you have a problem with laws, then maybe you should consider that most of those countries are not democracies, and it is not their citizens who want this to happen, but the dictatorships that allow these insane policies to exist--and many of those dictatorships are there due to U.S. and Western support. It is not right to make any judgments of their culture based on these policies without adequately studying the culture, the nature of the political regime in place, the various beliefs existent in such a society, etc.
Well, one big reason Islam beat out the polytheism of Arabia during the 7th century was the fact that it was a social movement as well--calling for economic justice, fighting the notion of 'class.' It was not strange to see a Muslim man buy a Muslim slave who was being persecuted by his polytheistic owner for his conversion, and then free him. Moreover, while lots of the earlier Qur'anic verses stressed God's monotheism, the verses also stressed economic and social justice. Moreover, the fact that the first 13 years of Muhammad's mission was carried out entirely peaceful, despite the huge persecution Muslims were getting (similar to Jesus) earned him a lot of support. It was only until far later when the Muslims were in a position of power and had their own city-state in Medina that you see verses that had more of a 'legislative' nature to them. Furthermore, the fact that Muslims had a sense of religious pluralism with other monotheistic faiths in the beginning (evidenced, for example, by the Constitution of Medina) helped earn them support. Finally, when Muhammad conquered Mecca, and the Islamic empire began to grow, conversion was convenient to many others.
As for why Christianity won out, I'm sure the adoption of the religion by the Roman Empire had a lot to do with it.
aah yes conquest.. always an awesome thing when wanting to promote ones ideals and beliefs.
Yep, religion or no religion, conquest, greed, power, etc, are all human.
I mean, I just don't understand these types of topics. What if someone in the Muslim world found random articles of the most savage things one could hear done to women and children in the U.S. (you know they exist in this country) and blames it all on the hedonism and commercialism and militarism rampant in American culture, that allows these movies riddled with violence in them to be so common in society, etc.? It would be absolutely stupid of someone like that, halfway around the world, to make a judgment like that, even if mini-truths in it exists. So, why is it ok for Americans to do this about the Muslim world? You know stories like this only flood the mainstream media just to keep up support for what the powers that be are doing there, if only to justify some insane 'civilizing mission'.
id like to think its a way of sorting through the bullshit and disseminating truths. for people who are open to it. misconceptions are a part of our growth.. but hopefully we push through our myopic views and see that the story of mankind is the same the world over.it just differs in the details. but of course there are always those who manage to live their whole lives with blinders on and it matters not if the truth is staring them in the face.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I mean, I just don't understand these types of topics. What if someone in the Muslim world found random articles of the most savage things one could hear done to women and children in the U.S. (you know they exist in this country) and blames it all on the hedonism and commercialism and militarism rampant in American culture, that allows these movies riddled with violence in them to be so common in society, etc.? It would be absolutely stupid of someone like that, halfway around the world, to make a judgment like that, even if mini-truths in it exists. So, why is it ok for Americans to do this about the Muslim world? You know stories like this only flood the mainstream media just to keep up support for what the powers that be are doing there, if only to justify some insane 'civilizing mission'.
id like to think its a way of sorting through the bullshit and disseminating truths. for people who are open to it. misconceptions are a part of our growth.. but hopefully we push through our myopic views and see that the story of mankind is the same the world over.it just differs in the details. but of course there are always those who manage to live their whole lives with blinders on and it matters not if the truth is staring them in the face.
People like you have the blinders on....how can you and fuck deny how women are treated do to the middle Easts refusal to evolve into civilized human beings! People in USA go bonkers if a woman cannot abort her baby,,,,yet all so forgiving if a woman gets stoned to death or murdered for being raped!?..because it is the culture that she lives in....really? is that a legit excuse with you and fuck?....The story of man kind is NOT the same the world over, My God open your closed mind.....Can you say "to may philosophy class's from liberal professors" ? Just a guess..... :fp:
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I mean, I just don't understand these types of topics. What if someone in the Muslim world found random articles of the most savage things one could hear done to women and children in the U.S. (you know they exist in this country) and blames it all on the hedonism and commercialism and militarism rampant in American culture, that allows these movies riddled with violence in them to be so common in society, etc.? It would be absolutely stupid of someone like that, halfway around the world, to make a judgment like that, even if mini-truths in it exists. So, why is it ok for Americans to do this about the Muslim world? You know stories like this only flood the mainstream media just to keep up support for what the powers that be are doing there, if only to justify some insane 'civilizing mission'.
id like to think its a way of sorting through the bullshit and disseminating truths. for people who are open to it. misconceptions are a part of our growth.. but hopefully we push through our myopic views and see that the story of mankind is the same the world over.it just differs in the details. but of course there are always those who manage to live their whole lives with blinders on and it matters not if the truth is staring them in the face.
People like you have the blinders on....how can you and fuck deny how women are treated do to the middle Easts refusal to evolve into civilized human beings! People in USA go bonkers if a woman cannot abort her baby,,,,yet all so forgiving if a woman gets stoned to death or murdered for being raped!?..because it is the culture that she lives in....really? is that a legit excuse with you and fuck?....The story of man kind is NOT the same the world over, My God open your closed mind.....Can you say "to may philosophy class's from liberal professors" ? Just a guess..... :fp:
im not denying anything. what im doing is trying not to condemn all muslims due to the actions of those who use their religion as an excuse for abuse. not once have i condoned the behaviour of these MEN. but i also know that not all countries where islam is the dominant religion condone it either. much like the degree to which the different denominationswithin christianity interpret the bible(not to mention those who make their own shit up), those who practise islam interpret the quran differently dependent upon what denomination within that religion they are. and yes it does also come down to culture. dont make the mistake that you seem to be doing of labelling islam as a monolithic religion.. much like christianity, it is not. i condemn the actions of MEN. i choose to lay the responsibiitly where it belongs.. on the MEN. millions of muslims live peacefully in this world, so why blame the religion when it is the actions of MEN. ingrained culutre is bitch to change. in grained culture that has deep roots in religion is an even harder bitch to sway.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I mean, I just don't understand these types of topics. What if someone in the Muslim world found random articles of the most savage things one could hear done to women and children in the U.S. (you know they exist in this country) and blames it all on the hedonism and commercialism and militarism rampant in American culture, that allows these movies riddled with violence in them to be so common in society, etc.? It would be absolutely stupid of someone like that, halfway around the world, to make a judgment like that, even if mini-truths in it exists. So, why is it ok for Americans to do this about the Muslim world? You know stories like this only flood the mainstream media just to keep up support for what the powers that be are doing there, if only to justify some insane 'civilizing mission'.
id like to think its a way of sorting through the bullshit and disseminating truths. for people who are open to it. misconceptions are a part of our growth.. but hopefully we push through our myopic views and see that the story of mankind is the same the world over.it just differs in the details. but of course there are always those who manage to live their whole lives with blinders on and it matters not if the truth is staring them in the face.
People like you have the blinders on....how can you and fuck deny how women are treated do to the middle Easts refusal to evolve into civilized human beings! People in USA go bonkers if a woman cannot abort her baby,,,,yet all so forgiving if a woman gets stoned to death or murdered for being raped!?..because it is the culture that she lives in....really? is that a legit excuse with you and fuck?....The story of man kind is NOT the same the world over, My God open your closed mind.....Can you say "to may philosophy class's from liberal professors" ? Just a guess..... :fp:
...
No one if 'For' beating and raping women. More like, it brings to light the real life problems that crop up when current day laws and cultures revolve around religions texts from the mind on men, living a couple of thousand years ago.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You are correct...we jews do not try to put a face to the name.
In fact, we don't even spell out his/her name in full...we use G-d.
In addition, unless Jewsish people are saying a prayer or reading the torah (the bible),
G-d is referred to as "Hashem" (Hebrew for "the name"), as opposed to the formal name, which is "Adonai".
why dont you spell out god in full???
It is a way to show respect and reverence. It is based on the tradition of not spelling it out in Hebrew.
You are correct...we jews do not try to put a face to the name.
In fact, we don't even spell out his/her name in full...we use G-d.
In addition, unless Jewsish people are saying a prayer or reading the torah (the bible),
G-d is referred to as "Hashem" (Hebrew for "the name"), as opposed to the formal name, which is "Adonai".
why dont you spell out god in full???
It is a way to show respect and reverence. It is based on the tradition of not spelling it out in Hebrew.
hmmm :think:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh, give me a fucking break. As if Timothy McVay changed the perception of Christianity in the U.S. People still feel comfortable saying Christianity does not necessarily cause this and that the extremism of others is very minimal. Islam is a whole other story.
Quit acting like this is a normal reaction of Americans to 9/11 to be this prejudiced against Islam. The fact is, Islam has long been seen as 'the other.' Just look at Huntington's notion of the clash of civilizations. The West is supposed to have that Judeo-Christian heritage that only recognizes Islam as foreign. Throughout the past several hundred years, since colonialism, so much misinformation about Islam has been prevalent throughout society. It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that it's simply a reaction to 9/11. That's not to suggest that 9/11 did not mark a turning point, but all it did was add more fuel to the flames of arrogance and misconceptions that were already burning--ironically, they were burning in the first place due to U.S. foreign policy.
HA!
Tim is your retort? As if he did his deeds in the name of religion...
:fp:
We don't care about anybody unless they are helping or hurting us.
People of your mindset claim the US is screwing everybody. Why is it that South Americans aren't flying commercial airplanes into our buildings? Or Europeans? Or South Africans? Or anybody else that has sanity???
:think:
Is it ludicrous to think that religion was the factor??? Or is it sane to think that normal human-beings had their minds poisoned by the interpretation of a book???
the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"
and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.
fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.
and by the way
under the video section of this youtube video at the beginning they have stated the following and have blocked comments from others. i'd like to get the dvd. also how about that girl gunned down for wanting an education? anyone got any updates on her recovery?
We were a great nation, we were proud, we were leaders in everything, we were Iran. Now look at us post-1979, the IRI is destroying our nation and we are going to take it back from these animals. Equal rights for men and women.
Oh, give me a fucking break. As if Timothy McVay changed the perception of Christianity in the U.S. People still feel comfortable saying Christianity does not necessarily cause this and that the extremism of others is very minimal. Islam is a whole other story.
Quit acting like this is a normal reaction of Americans to 9/11 to be this prejudiced against Islam. The fact is, Islam has long been seen as 'the other.' Just look at Huntington's notion of the clash of civilizations. The West is supposed to have that Judeo-Christian heritage that only recognizes Islam as foreign. Throughout the past several hundred years, since colonialism, so much misinformation about Islam has been prevalent throughout society. It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that it's simply a reaction to 9/11. That's not to suggest that 9/11 did not mark a turning point, but all it did was add more fuel to the flames of arrogance and misconceptions that were already burning--ironically, they were burning in the first place due to U.S. foreign policy.
HA!
Tim is your retort? As if he did his deeds in the name of religion...
:fp:
We don't care about anybody unless they are helping or hurting us.
People of your mindset claim the US is screwing everybody. Why is it that South Americans aren't flying commercial airplanes into our buildings? Or Europeans? Or South Africans? Or anybody else that has sanity???
:think:
Is it ludicrous to think that religion was the factor??? Or is it sane to think that normal human-beings had their minds poisoned by the interpretation of a book???
Your post is riddled with factual errors, contradictions, and a tinge of racism (or perhaps exceptionalism). Allow me to explain:
1. If you don't want to accept the Oklahoma City Bombing as an example, then there are still the bombing of abortion clinics, and a ton of other acts done "in the name of religion." But when it comes to "Western" religion, people are able to separate the egregious acts from what is actually acceptable. This is not the case with Islam.
Your second sentence-paragraph adds nothing to the conversation.
Don't make assumptions of what mindset I am. That's just a poor way to have a discussion. Also, the fact that you restrict your category of people who have no sanity in the world solely to extremists from the Muslim world is what I meant by a tinge of racism. I don't get it, just because a group of crazy people took out an attack like 9/11, they're the only ones who are insane in the world? The American troops who bombed Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia to bits are, what, sane? No, it's just the ones who flew planes into a building that set the marker for insanity. If perhaps they had some more technology and were able to fly drones over our heads and assassinate us with a remote control, well, then they would be civilized.
France, the U.K., and the U.S. for hundreds of years raped, killed and pillaged other countries (colonies) in the same of liberalism, democracy and freedom. This is still going on. Why are we able to separate the actors from what they claim to be acting in the name of when it comes to Western ideals, but when it comes to Islam we argue "No, they are doing this because of Islam."
You really want to have a discussion about whether religion was the factor? Why don't you actually engage the texts, like the Qur'an and Prophetic reports? Until you do, and so long as you keep citing examples of just random crazies in another part of the world that you don't understand, you'll just keep spreading misconceptions happily. Which I suppose is fine. Some people really do enjoy bullshitting.
the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"
and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.
fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.
This is what I mean in the earlier post--you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women--in all parts of the world--to make all-encompassing judgments on their basis is absurd. Furthermore, this poor woman's story, while sad, does not make her an expert on Islam in any way whatsoever, just as an Iraqi whose house was bombed and family massacred by U.S. troops does not make him or her an expert on Western liberalism.
Your post is riddled with factual errors, contradictions, and a tinge of racism (or perhaps exceptionalism). Allow me to explain:
1. If you don't want to accept the Oklahoma City Bombing as an example, then there are still the bombing of abortion clinics, and a ton of other acts done "in the name of religion." But when it comes to "Western" religion, people are able to separate the egregious acts from what is actually acceptable. This is not the case with Islam.
Your second sentence-paragraph adds nothing to the conversation.
Don't make assumptions of what mindset I am. That's just a poor way to have a discussion. Also, the fact that you restrict your category of people who have no sanity in the world solely to extremists from the Muslim world is what I meant by a tinge of racism. I don't get it, just because a group of crazy people took out an attack like 9/11, they're the only ones who are insane in the world? The American troops who bombed Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia to bits are, what, sane? No, it's just the ones who flew planes into a building that set the marker for insanity. If perhaps they had some more technology and were able to fly drones over our heads and assassinate us with a remote control, well, then they would be civilized.
France, the U.K., and the U.S. for hundreds of years raped, killed and pillaged other countries (colonies) in the same of liberalism, democracy and freedom. This is still going on. Why are we able to separate the actors from what they claim to be acting in the name of when it comes to Western ideals, but when it comes to Islam we argue "No, they are doing this because of Islam."
You really want to have a discussion about whether religion was the factor? Why don't you actually engage the texts, like the Qur'an and Prophetic reports? Until you do, and so long as you keep citing examples of just random crazies in another part of the world that you don't understand, you'll just keep spreading misconceptions happily. Which I suppose is fine. Some people really do enjoy bullshitting.
As a civilized society, I want to see us moving forward, not backward. I can't defend the past. Heck, a hundred years ago women couldn't even vote in the US ... a notion that seems beyond ridiculous to me.
There are a lot of kooks in all religions. In the US, the major religions primarily use shame as their choice weapon. You have the nutjob every year or so bomb a clinic, but it isn't celebrated and it isn't widespread.
I think we should judge and judge hard when society is moving backwards. The treatment of women and homosexuals is horrible and inexcusable. Sorry if that comes out as racism in your opinion.
Also, I support pulling our troops out of many countries and doing a massive defense spending cuts. I judge my leaders and judge hard as well.
the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"
and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.
fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.
This is what I mean in the earlier post--you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women--in all parts of the world--to make all-encompassing judgments on their basis is absurd. Furthermore, this poor woman's story, while sad, does not make her an expert on Islam in any way whatsoever, just as an Iraqi whose house was bombed and family massacred by U.S. troops does not make him or her an expert on Western liberalism.
yeah i'm sure she knows zero of Islam. i find your comment on calling her an actor quite fucked the fuck up, sir/miss.
it is a fact that women in the middle east have less rights than most anywhere else on earth. at least in china, north korea, & cuba their women can wear regular clothing and not need to be covered. and if raped in cuba, north korea or china are they thrown in prison or stoned to death?
i asked this question the other day...
if a women is raped in poland is she punished by imprisonment, lashings or stoning?
the lady speaking in the video posted at the beginning of this thread is asked
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"
and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.
fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.
This is what I mean in the earlier post--you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women--in all parts of the world--to make all-encompassing judgments on their basis is absurd. Furthermore, this poor woman's story, while sad, does not make her an expert on Islam in any way whatsoever, just as an Iraqi whose house was bombed and family massacred by U.S. troops does not make him or her an expert on Western liberalism.
yeah i'm sure she knows zero of Islam. i find your comment on calling her an actor quite fucked the fuck up, sir/miss.
(yeah i do not know if you are male or female)
I wonder if the poor woman's view on Islam would have been given more credibility by "F*ck" if said woman's views on Islam were more positive?
I'm not sure if "actor" was meant as someone who portrays a role (a Hollywood actor) but as some who carries out an action (act-or).
The post is complicated to respond to but I didn't take away from it the idea that the woman in the video was accused of being an actress rather than an actual victim.
she says Islam is the most horrible thing she has experienced & that Islam is rape, failure & that women are somehow half and not human beings
what the fuck is wrong with those guys of the Islamic ways? what a nasty group
This story is almost as good as this quote from another thread........
Debating Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) in their final Senate race showdown, a questioner asked them and Libertarian candidate Andrew Horning to explain their views on abortion.
All three said they were anti-abortion. But Mourdock went the further, putting himself in territory near Missouri GOP Senate candidate Rep. Todd Akin, the anti-abortion congressman who infamously asserted that women don't get pregnant from "legitimate rape."
WHAT MUSLIM COUNTRY DID THIS BABY COME FROM?
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
I'm not sure if "actor" was meant as someone who portrays a role (a Hollywood actor) but as some who carries out an action (act-or).
The post is complicated to respond to but I didn't take away from it the idea that the woman in the video was accused of being an actress rather than an actual victim.
I see your point....I changed my question accordingly.
I wonder if the poor woman's view on Islam would have been given more credibility by "F*ck" if said woman's views on Islam were more positive?
That's a cute question. Let me try and understand its premise. You mean, even after certain crazies did what they did, said woman would have a positive view on Islam? I guess, you're right, I would give her more credibility. Why? Because it would show that even despite her awful experience she's still rationally understanding the various nuances at play here, that is, Islam did not rape her, a group of insane men did. Now, I don't think she should be held accountable to being entirely rational--she very clearly went through an incredibly traumatic experience and that type of shit will often affect people in the wrong way. But, I don't think her awful experience makes her a credible expert on Islam, for the tons of reasons I've stated in this thread already.
i challenge you or anyone for that matter to find us one woman who loves being treated in this fashion. find us one woman who enjoys islam & the like from over there in the middle eastern countries.
it is a fact that women in the middle east have less rights than most anywhere else on earth. at least in china, north korea, & cuba their women can wear regular clothing and not need to be covered. and if raped in cuba, north korea or china are they thrown in prison or stoned to death?
i asked this question the other day...
if a women is raped in poland is she punished by imprisonment, lashings or stoning?
You're not arguing this methodically. All I am saying here is that if you do want to go beyond simply blaming people, and blame the religion of Islam for this, you have to follow a methodology:
A -> B -> C -> D
In a case of , say, the Taliban mistreating a woman: the woman is A, she was affected by B, men from the Taliban. The men are allowed to do this due to C, the governing powers that be (the group itself). Finally, D represents the driving ambition or motive. What is causing them to do this? They claim in some instances they do it in the name of Islam. Well, this is where real investigative work is necessary. The woman A can credibly explain what B did to her, but she doesn't necessarily have credibility when it comes to D, that is, WHY they did it. And her experience certainly does not make her some kind of expert.
You wanna really blame Islam on this? Explain D.
Explain what these people cite specifically in the Islamic texts -- the Qur'an and the Prophetic Reports. Explain why their interpretation is even logical, and not a gross (and likely intentional) exaggeration made to preserve a misogynistic culture--a misogynistic culture unrelated and which would exist despite the Islamic reference. Until such an argument is made, saying Islam is to blame is pure conjecture and an entirely polemical argument.
you want to have a discussion about Islam, a real one, you do not discuss certain actors in that part of the world (an overwhelming minority who act in this way), but you engage the actual texts and tenets of the religion. As sad as it is that these heinous acts happen to women
Notice an association? I even put it in bold. :roll:
i challenge you or anyone for that matter to find us one woman who loves being treated in this fashion. find us one woman who enjoys islam & the like from over there in the middle eastern countries.
Is this a real question? I see I wasn't far off when I said the duty here is for white men to save brown women from brown men.
i challenge you or anyone for that matter to find us one woman who loves being treated in this fashion. find us one woman who enjoys islam & the like from over there in the middle eastern countries.
Is this a real question? I see I wasn't far off when I said the duty here is for white men to save brown women from brown men.
what is so hysterical laughing person?
it is a direct & simple question. go search the internet for thrilled woman whom stand next to islamic madman. please show us this woman.
Comments
aah yes conquest.. always an awesome thing when wanting to promote ones ideals and beliefs.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
id like to think its a way of sorting through the bullshit and disseminating truths. for people who are open to it. misconceptions are a part of our growth.. but hopefully we push through our myopic views and see that the story of mankind is the same the world over.it just differs in the details. but of course there are always those who manage to live their whole lives with blinders on and it matters not if the truth is staring them in the face.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
People like you have the blinders on....how can you and fuck deny how women are treated do to the middle Easts refusal to evolve into civilized human beings! People in USA go bonkers if a woman cannot abort her baby,,,,yet all so forgiving if a woman gets stoned to death or murdered for being raped!?..because it is the culture that she lives in....really? is that a legit excuse with you and fuck?....The story of man kind is NOT the same the world over, My God open your closed mind.....Can you say "to may philosophy class's from liberal professors" ? Just a guess..... :fp:
im not denying anything. what im doing is trying not to condemn all muslims due to the actions of those who use their religion as an excuse for abuse. not once have i condoned the behaviour of these MEN. but i also know that not all countries where islam is the dominant religion condone it either. much like the degree to which the different denominationswithin christianity interpret the bible(not to mention those who make their own shit up), those who practise islam interpret the quran differently dependent upon what denomination within that religion they are. and yes it does also come down to culture. dont make the mistake that you seem to be doing of labelling islam as a monolithic religion.. much like christianity, it is not. i condemn the actions of MEN. i choose to lay the responsibiitly where it belongs.. on the MEN. millions of muslims live peacefully in this world, so why blame the religion when it is the actions of MEN. ingrained culutre is bitch to change. in grained culture that has deep roots in religion is an even harder bitch to sway.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
No one if 'For' beating and raping women. More like, it brings to light the real life problems that crop up when current day laws and cultures revolve around religions texts from the mind on men, living a couple of thousand years ago.
Hail, Hail!!!
It is a way to show respect and reverence. It is based on the tradition of not spelling it out in Hebrew.
hmmm :think:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Tim is your retort? As if he did his deeds in the name of religion...
:fp:
We don't care about anybody unless they are helping or hurting us.
People of your mindset claim the US is screwing everybody. Why is it that South Americans aren't flying commercial airplanes into our buildings? Or Europeans? Or South Africans? Or anybody else that has sanity???
:think:
Is it ludicrous to think that religion was the factor??? Or is it sane to think that normal human-beings had their minds poisoned by the interpretation of a book???
"what was your view on Islam when you left prison?" - interviewer
her reply, "Islam, to me, is the most horrible thing i have experienced in my life"
she goes on to say, "Islam means failure, it means rape. it means women are, women are not human. they are worth half. that is what Islam means. Islam means oppression. that is how i saw Islam"
and sadly that is how a huge number of women are treated & how they view Islam. sad fucking facts, ladies & gentlemen. those dudes in Iran & elsewhere in the middle east who are into extreme bullshit are nutjobs hardcore. they are evil nasty bastards. they believe wholeheartedly women are to be oppressed, tortured, raped, unschooled, used as trade to pay debts as if donkey or coins.
fact is those guys are having low self asteem issues, they are taught this garbage since birth, it is to them common knowledge.
and by the way
under the video section of this youtube video at the beginning they have stated the following and have blocked comments from others. i'd like to get the dvd. also how about that girl gunned down for wanting an education? anyone got any updates on her recovery?
We were a great nation, we were proud, we were leaders in everything, we were Iran. Now look at us post-1979, the IRI is destroying our nation and we are going to take it back from these animals. Equal rights for men and women.
Mirrored from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpL3IobaSU
"Iranian women living in Sweden telling a horrific story about the Islamic regime in her home country.
In swedish but with english subtitle.
This is a short clip from the film: Sweden - Children of Islam (2007) by Journeyman Pictures.
You can buy the DVD here:
http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=57715"
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
1. If you don't want to accept the Oklahoma City Bombing as an example, then there are still the bombing of abortion clinics, and a ton of other acts done "in the name of religion." But when it comes to "Western" religion, people are able to separate the egregious acts from what is actually acceptable. This is not the case with Islam.
Your second sentence-paragraph adds nothing to the conversation.
Don't make assumptions of what mindset I am. That's just a poor way to have a discussion. Also, the fact that you restrict your category of people who have no sanity in the world solely to extremists from the Muslim world is what I meant by a tinge of racism. I don't get it, just because a group of crazy people took out an attack like 9/11, they're the only ones who are insane in the world? The American troops who bombed Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia to bits are, what, sane? No, it's just the ones who flew planes into a building that set the marker for insanity. If perhaps they had some more technology and were able to fly drones over our heads and assassinate us with a remote control, well, then they would be civilized.
France, the U.K., and the U.S. for hundreds of years raped, killed and pillaged other countries (colonies) in the same of liberalism, democracy and freedom. This is still going on. Why are we able to separate the actors from what they claim to be acting in the name of when it comes to Western ideals, but when it comes to Islam we argue "No, they are doing this because of Islam."
You really want to have a discussion about whether religion was the factor? Why don't you actually engage the texts, like the Qur'an and Prophetic reports? Until you do, and so long as you keep citing examples of just random crazies in another part of the world that you don't understand, you'll just keep spreading misconceptions happily. Which I suppose is fine. Some people really do enjoy bullshitting.
There are a lot of kooks in all religions. In the US, the major religions primarily use shame as their choice weapon. You have the nutjob every year or so bomb a clinic, but it isn't celebrated and it isn't widespread.
I think we should judge and judge hard when society is moving backwards. The treatment of women and homosexuals is horrible and inexcusable. Sorry if that comes out as racism in your opinion.
Also, I support pulling our troops out of many countries and doing a massive defense spending cuts. I judge my leaders and judge hard as well.
(yeah i do not know if you are male or female)
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i asked this question the other day...
if a women is raped in poland is she punished by imprisonment, lashings or stoning?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I wonder if the poor woman's view on Islam would have been given more credibility by "F*ck" if said woman's views on Islam were more positive?
The post is complicated to respond to but I didn't take away from it the idea that the woman in the video was accused of being an actress rather than an actual victim.
This story is almost as good as this quote from another thread........
Debating Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) in their final Senate race showdown, a questioner asked them and Libertarian candidate Andrew Horning to explain their views on abortion.
All three said they were anti-abortion. But Mourdock went the further, putting himself in territory near Missouri GOP Senate candidate Rep. Todd Akin, the anti-abortion congressman who infamously asserted that women don't get pregnant from "legitimate rape."
WHAT MUSLIM COUNTRY DID THIS BABY COME FROM?
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
I see your point....I changed my question accordingly.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
A -> B -> C -> D
In a case of , say, the Taliban mistreating a woman: the woman is A, she was affected by B, men from the Taliban. The men are allowed to do this due to C, the governing powers that be (the group itself). Finally, D represents the driving ambition or motive. What is causing them to do this? They claim in some instances they do it in the name of Islam. Well, this is where real investigative work is necessary. The woman A can credibly explain what B did to her, but she doesn't necessarily have credibility when it comes to D, that is, WHY they did it. And her experience certainly does not make her some kind of expert.
You wanna really blame Islam on this? Explain D.
Explain what these people cite specifically in the Islamic texts -- the Qur'an and the Prophetic Reports. Explain why their interpretation is even logical, and not a gross (and likely intentional) exaggeration made to preserve a misogynistic culture--a misogynistic culture unrelated and which would exist despite the Islamic reference. Until such an argument is made, saying Islam is to blame is pure conjecture and an entirely polemical argument.
Notice an association? I even put it in bold. :roll:
Is this a real question? I see I wasn't far off when I said the duty here is for white men to save brown women from brown men.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
it is a direct & simple question. go search the internet for thrilled woman whom stand next to islamic madman. please show us this woman.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce