Islamic compounds in U.S.A Training for Jihad

peacefrompaul

Byrnzie wrote:

aerial wrote:

sodomy and savage acts are a way of life with the Islamist.

Thanks for admitting that you're just a racist. You could have saved us all a lot of effort by stating your true beliefs at the top of this page.

Islam is a race? aerial may be prejudiced... racist gets thrown around way too easily

peacefrompaul

aerial wrote:

I haven't seen American Christians dragging bodies through the streets....

Yes... but Christians have done their fair share of killing... look at the crusades... Christianity isn't any more clean.

aerial

peacefrompaul wrote:

aerial wrote:

I haven't seen American Christians dragging bodies through the streets....

Yes... but Christians have done their fair share of killing... look at the crusades... Christianity isn't any more clean.

This is 2012
Christians like everyone else have become civilized....these Islamist countries have not evolved....my god look how they treat their women, they condone sex with kids. Ask any military personnel....they are briefed on the customs before being sent over their so they will not "offend anyone". Just do some research .....in fact everyone knows this but most people are afraid to admit it....

Byrnzie

peacefrompaul wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

aerial wrote:

sodomy and savage acts are a way of life with the Islamist.

Thanks for admitting that you're just a racist. You could have saved us all a lot of effort by stating your true beliefs at the top of this page.

Islam is a race? aerial may be prejudiced... racist gets thrown around way too easily

Fair enough, though I think it's not difficult to see that most anti-Muslim sentiments stems from racism towards Arabs. White people practicing extremist forms of religion - I.e, Christian fundamentalists - aren't deemed a problem by the majority of Americans, including by our friend Aerial, whereas brown-skinned people practicing Islam are seen to be a major threat.

Byrnzie

aerial wrote:

Christians like everyone else have become civilized....these Islamist countries have not evolved....my god look how they treat their women, they condone sex with kids. Ask any military personnel....they are briefed on the customs before being sent over their so they will not "offend anyone". Just do some research .....in fact everyone knows this but most people are afraid to admit it....

There we have it: 'these Islamist countries have not evolved.'. Thanks for proving my point. If it doesn't qualify as racism, then it certainly qualifies as bigotry.

Byrnzie

aerial wrote:

Christians like everyone else have become civilized....

So on one side we have the Islamists, and on the other side we have 'Christians', and 'everyone else'.

And I suppose waging countless wars abroad, devastating two sovereign nations, killing millions of people, and standing alone in the World in supporting Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign and land-grab, qualifies as 'civilized'?

peacefrompaul

aerial wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

aerial wrote:

I haven't seen American Christians dragging bodies through the streets....

Yes... but Christians have done their fair share of killing... look at the crusades... Christianity isn't any more clean.

This is 2012
Christians like everyone else have become civilized....these Islamist countries have not evolved....my god look how they treat their women, they condone sex with kids. Ask any military personnel....they are briefed on the customs before being sent over their so they will not "offend anyone". Just do some research .....in fact everyone knows this but most people are afraid to admit it....

What is "civilized" exactly? Is our way of running things in the United States civilized? Is it God's will to teach these... uhhh... Islamists how to be civilized? Yeah, they treat women like shit, and have sex with kids... I have a friend that came back from Afghanistan to tell me about some of that shit that's going on. What we consider civilized and what they consider civilized are probably completely different things. If the people there don't like it, let them take care of it themselves. It's their revolution to have...

peacefrompaul

Byrnzie wrote:

aerial wrote:

Christians like everyone else have become civilized....

So on one side we have the Islamists, and on the other side we have 'Christians', and 'everyone else'.

And I suppose waging countless wars abroad, devastating two sovereign nations, killing millions of people, and standing alone in the World in supporting Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign and land-grab, qualifies as 'civilized'?

Good post, Byrnzie.. I should have read a little further before posting mine.

catefrances

it must suck leading such a paranoid life... looking for the bogeyman. do those who seem so frightened of the coming islamist takeover of their country ever question what it is their own government does?

aerial

do those who seem so frightened of the coming islamist takeover of their country ever question what it is their own government does?

Yes, all the time. I do realize our government is corrupt and it has only gotten worse with this administration They can't even say Terrorist.

So on one side we have the Islamists, and on the other side we have 'Christians', and 'everyone else'.

And I suppose waging countless wars abroad, devastating two sovereign nations, killing millions of people, and standing alone in the World in supporting Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign and land-grab, qualifies as 'civilized'?

Wrong. We have the islamist wanting to take over the world and we have Americans (the ones that are informed) not wanting it to happen here. I don't agree with us going over there either. Ethnic cleansing campaign by Israel ....really? :roll:

. If the people there don't like it, let them take care of it themselves. It's their revolution to have...

I totally agree....and keep it out of the USA!



and for the record color of skin has NOTHING to do with anything!

Byrnzie

aerial wrote:

We have the islamist wanting to take over the world and we have Americans (the ones that are informed) not wanting it to happen here.

Like I said above, instead of believing in cute little soundbites that paint the World as a convenient black-and-white 'them vs us', try switching off Fox news for a minute, stop reading racist, bigoted, fear-mongering webpages and blogs, and try educating yourself. It's not difficult.
And as for anyone trying to take over the World, I suggest you take a look at your own countries, economic, and foreign policy over the past 60 years.

peacefrompaul

aerial wrote:

Wrong. We have the islamist wanting to take over the world and we have Americans (the ones that are informed) not wanting it to happen here. I don't agree with us going over there either. Ethnic cleansing campaign by Israel ....really? :roll:

Uhh yeah... Look at it once in the shoes of a Palestinian.. A book that may or may not be true claims that the Jews own the land that they once held for MANY years. How would you feel? A book says so?

The "Islamists" don't want to take over the world, they want us to leave them the fuck alone. I'd probably do the same thing in their shoes. If you don't want us to go over there, Mitt Romney was the wrong choice.

dancepartner

This is one depressing thread.
Since I've not read the Koran, here's my questions. Anyone who responds, please keep it simple with either a yes or no. thanks.
1) Ird. Does this, in practice, equate to the subjugation of women?
2) ZIna. Does this, in practice, equate to the subjugation of women?
3) FMG. Well, I already know this does and i already know this practice still persists so I'll answer this one myself.
Yes. This is female mutilation. Now, just exactly why the practice of male circumcision persists is beyond me.
4) Honor Killings. Another one I already know the answer to. Yes, this does happen and yes, this happens to females.
So I'm a bit confused. Surely, the general consensus of this thread is not intended to deny these practices occur, so what's up? Does it have something to do with an uncontrollable urge besets this crowd because Aerial seems to lend himself for easy pickings?
Ugh...sorry. I'll go to bed now.

catefrances

dancepartner wrote:

This is one depressing thread.
Since I've not read the Koran, here's my questions. Anyone who responds, please keep it simple with either a yes or no. thanks.
1) Ird. Does this, in practice, equate to the subjugation of women?
2) ZIna. Does this, in practice, equate to the subjugation of women?
3) FMG. Well, I already know this does and i already know this practice still persists so I'll answer this one myself.
Yes. This is female mutilation. Now, just exactly why the practice of male circumcision persists is beyond me.
4) Honor Killings. Another one I already know the answer to. Yes, this does happen and yes, this happens to females.
So I'm a bit confused. Surely, the general consensus of this thread is not intended to deny these practices occur, so what's up? Does it have something to do with an uncontrollable urge besets this crowd because Aerial seems to lend himself for easy pickings?
Ugh...sorry. I'll go to bed now.

then i suggest you read the quran and the sunnah if youre looking for answers cause a simple yes or no cant be given to any questions on religion, no matter what religion we speak of. just like other religions islam isnt a monolithic entity and so interpretation of allahs word may differ dependant upon whether you are speaking to a sunni, a shi'ite or a sufi. interpretation may even differ between peoples within these sects.

PJ_Soul

dancepartner wrote:

This is one depressing thread.
Since I've not read the Koran, here's my questions. Anyone who responds, please keep it simple with either a yes or no. thanks.
1) Ird. Does this, in practice, equate to the subjugation of women?
2) ZIna. Does this, in practice, equate to the subjugation of women?
3) FMG. Well, I already know this does and i already know this practice still persists so I'll answer this one myself.
Yes. This is female mutilation. Now, just exactly why the practice of male circumcision persists is beyond me.
4) Honor Killings. Another one I already know the answer to. Yes, this does happen and yes, this happens to females.
So I'm a bit confused. Surely, the general consensus of this thread is not intended to deny these practices occur, so what's up? Does it have something to do with an uncontrollable urge besets this crowd because Aerial seems to lend himself for easy pickings?
Ugh...sorry. I'll go to bed now.

Yeah, I'm with you... I don't get it. It's like everyone is so busy tripping over themselves trying not to offend anyone, that they are refusing to acknowledge those issues that ARE actually a problem somewhere .... There is nothing wrong with being concerned about problems; folks, just because you acknowledge that there are serious issues with Sharia Law as far as women are concerned doesn't mean you are automatically shutting off understanding for all things relating Islam. C'mon now. I find it somewhat insulting that no one seems give a shit about this serious issue that actually exists.
(but this thread DID go off the rails with some of aerial's comments)

dignin

fuck wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

@ fuck:

See aerial's posts.

You seem to be in defense of Sharia law. I don't accept that view. Yes, I do know that it involves all kinds of things that are considered the complete and total adherence to Islam. That includes the subjection of women, including the male dominance over them and the right to punish them for various "acts against Islam". It makes me sick, and not only is there no room for that shit within North America, but there is no room for that shit anywhere in the world as far as I'm concerned. Sharia followers can tells us about how clean they need to be and how they want to adhere to Islamic relationships and carry out finances in a certain way until the cows come home. And you can talk about some kind of lack of understanding all you want too (but I think it's ridiculous for you to suggest that women might be in a reasonable and understandable position within such a culture). Until Sharia law dictates that women are equal to men, I cannot and will not respect such beliefs, and I will not apologize for it.

This is not a complicated issue that demands a lot of discussion and research. It is quite cut and dry, in fact. I have no room for such attitudes and treatment towards women in my world view, nor do I have room for understanding for the men who subject women to such beliefs. I find it offensive when anyone defends Sharia law, frankly, assuming they have any understanding whatsoever of what it dictates about the role of men and women within that system. That you make the assumption that I have a lack of understanding of what Sharia law entails because I don't approve of it shows that you don't understand the weight and impact that their laws around male dominance and female subjugation have on a lot of people, particularly other women. I find it curious that your concerns lie with what is "truly Islamic" as opposed to what is actually practiced in real life. To me, it's what is practiced in real life that matters (although I also take issue with your claim that in "true Islam" women are considered equal to men - that is false). What may or may not be the academic pure definition of Islamic teachings is neither here nor there if that is not how it's been translated into actual practice. I don't see the point of this argument. It tends to make excuses for what is inexcusable.

aerial's posts re: this particular topic have a long history of being devoid of any intellect, and the source he or she cited is not acceptable in any normal debate setting. I think on any normal occasion you would agree that aerial's vapid posts lack any real substance, but you're so desperate in this circumstance to find anything to defend your radical position that you are forced to accept it. The mere fact that you see this entire debate as either "for" or "against" Shari`ah further demonstrates that you lack any ability to judge this from an academic viewpoint. You can sit here and say, "I'm only judging this based off of what is applied in real life" as if you are some self-proclaimed realist and have no time to trouble yourself with theories, but everyone knows that that is absolute nonsense--for instance, the United States went to Iraq to spread democracy and freedom. Does it then hold that democracy and freedom are responsible for the carnage that engulfed Iraq as a result of this liberal mission? The fact is, you absolutely cannot sit here and say 'I want to only judge the practice' because there are people putting this practice into effect, and their motives and intentions must be judged. Furthermore, the theory and practice must be separated to then see the role these actors play. The reason for this is that the discussion is whether Islam inherently views women as unequal to men. Citing examples of rogue states and tribes does not help your case, it just demonstrates your inability to see beyond soundbites in Western media.

The fact that you can even so easily claim that this is not a complicated issue that requires discussion and research shows your arrogance. As if it would be o.k. for anyone to say something similar about a Western ideal like liberalism. If the French were spreading liberalism in Algeria, the British in India, and the United States in Iraq, then why are we allowed to go around and tell these peoples that liberalism is some universalist ideal that is applicable any time and any place? Such arrogance. You did not even consider the arguments I gave in my previous post, you just posted some short two paragraph rant about why you're right despite everything, without providing any evidence--for that, you chose to rely on aerial's choice source. Well done.

You're going to have to learn two things, although they play off one another: first, not everyone thinks like you, and your principles may be ideal in a most general sense, but as you get more specific, people think differently from you and you're going to have to learn that. In other words, women in Muslim countries do not want to adopt your liberal feminist viewpoint. Look at the Gallup polls conducted, they want Shari`ah. The fact is, many women see Muslim as their identity, and are unwilling to let it go. Which brings me to my second point, many women do not see Shari`ah as limiting them. Instead, the same rules hold across different parts of the world, including Canada and the U.S., where women are often subjugated by men. The experiences are certainly different, but there's a reason to consider that the principle holds that sexism exists everywhere, because it is not due to Shari`ah. Furthermore, you have no actual history to support most of your claims. Most of your claims of Shari`ah literally entered the news in the past 20-30 years when radical Islamic movements began to emerge, such as the Taliban. However, you ignore over 1000 years of Islamic civilization, not surprisingly, since from what I can tell, the majority of your information comes from Western media reports over the last several years. I have a question: do you go around arrogantly advising people how best to diagnose a serious disease? Probably not, because you haven't studied it, and watching a season of House, M.D. is not enough. It only comes to politics and history that people think they can base their knowledge off of media and television alone. These subjects however are all sciences and DO require research and discussion, no matter how much you refuse to acknowledge it.

Thank you for your posts about Shari'ah law, very informative.

catefrances

PJ_Soul wrote:

Yeah, I'm with you... I don't get it. It's like everyone is so busy tripping over themselves trying not to offend anyone, that they are refusing to acknowledge those issues that ARE actually a problem somewhere .... There is nothing wrong with being concerned about problems; folks, just because you acknowledge that there are serious issues with Sharia Law as far as women are concerned doesn't mean you are automatically shutting off understanding for all things relating Islam. C'mon now. I find it somewhat insulting that no one seems give a shit about this serious issue that actually exists.
(but this thread DID go off the rails with some of aerial's comments)

i find any law that promotes violence against women(or anyone else for that matter) abhorrent.. as well as those that deny a womans sovereignty over her own body. and yes this includes those sharia laws that are not justice but simply misogynistic. but then again i am no fan of any religion. and once again we have women being held up as the barometer of a societys morality. when people learn that their morality comes from within and not from some stupid book and dogma perhaps then there will be progress.

Cosmo

First off... 'Islamberg'? Why not 'Muslimville' or 'Jihadbrook'?
'Islamburgh'... that's better.
...
Next, how is this any different from any other religious sect setting up a compound... like those polygamists Christians in the mountains... or Branch Davidians in Waco... or Baghwans in Oregon? To me, they are all fundamentalist... meaning they are all mental less. If any of them are violent... and or commiting crimes in violation of states and or federal law (including weapons violations, spousal or child abuse), then bring them up on those specific charges.
Or are people calling for a Waco-like raid and flattening the place?

keeponrockin

Cosmo wrote:

First off... 'Islamberg'? Why not 'Muslimville' or 'Jihadbrook'?
'Islamburgh'... that's better.
...
Next, how is this any different from any other religious sect setting up a compound... like those polygamists Christians in the mountains... or Branch Davidians in Waco... or Baghwans in Oregon? To me, they are all fundamentalist... meaning they are all mental less. If any of them are violent... and or commiting crimes in violation of states and or federal law (including weapons violations, spousal or child abuse), then bring them up on those specific charges.
Or are people calling for a Waco-like raid and flattening the place?

aerial

If you are not familiar with Steven Coughlin, this man has incredible insight into the very real threat of Jihad. He was one of the very top counter terrorism experts inside the US Government. But when he started saying that Islamic terrorism followed Islamic scripture, you can probably guess what happened. He was let go. Listen to what he has to say here:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKemdGeYfrA&feature=channel&list=UL

This guy was an analyst for military intelligence, that's VERY similar in function to the analysis side of the CIA- but just for the army. His lectures are as close to sitting in on a CIA briefing as civilian can get.


Another guy to check out is Eric Allen Bell