Some people have way too much faith in government ... it doesn't matter who you elect ... guaranteed they're laughing at you ...
It just amazes me at how many people don't want to admit or can't admit that no matter what side your on they are lying ... all of them.
great point. thats why electoral politics is a joke. real change doesnt happen that way. And its blatantly obvious that all politicians, on all sides, are liars and crooks. Yet people continue to vote them in.
Some people have way too much faith in government ... it doesn't matter who you elect ... guaranteed they're laughing at you ...
It just amazes me at how many people don't want to admit or can't admit that no matter what side your on they are lying ... all of them.
great point. thats why electoral politics is a joke. real change doesnt happen that way. And its blatantly obvious that all politicians, on all sides, are liars and crooks. Yet people continue to vote them in.
Yeah, but what's the alternative?? Because it's not like great people are getting displaced by creeps. Everyone running sucks... so what? No one votes ... and their friends and family and lobbyists make all the choices? I don't think there is any choice but to vote for the best of a bad lot... Which is overwhelmingly depressing. But actually good people don't get into federal politics... the bullshit is systemic.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,798
Some people have way too much faith in government ... it doesn't matter who you elect ... guaranteed they're laughing at you ...
It just amazes me at how many people don't want to admit or can't admit that no matter what side your on they are lying ... all of them.
great point. thats why electoral politics is a joke. real change doesnt happen that way. And its blatantly obvious that all politicians, on all sides, are liars and crooks. Yet people continue to vote them in.
Yeah, but what's the alternative?? Because it's not like great people are getting displaced by creeps. Everyone running sucks... so what? No one votes ... and their friends and family and lobbyists make all the choices? I don't think there is any choice but to vote for the best of a bad lot... Which is overwhelmingly depressing. But actually good people don't get into federal politics... the bullshit is systemic.
Yeah, I agree with Carlin's sentiment and I agree with what you say here, PJ_Soul. One of Carlin's best skills was to get us to use critical thinking rather than going with knee jerk responses- which to me means thinking critically about what he had to say as well. I agree that most of our elected officials do not fully represent us but we have the right to vote and I'm thankful for that right and I chose to vote for the person I thought had the best chances of making the best decisions. I generally don't vote for third party candidates when I know full well they won't win but if I really think it doesn't make a difference I'll throw out a vote on a third part. In the case of this years presidential election I thought it made a significant difference and I did not vote third party and I definitely did not choose to not vote.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Some people have way too much faith in government ... it doesn't matter who you elect ... guaranteed they're laughing at you ...
It just amazes me at how many people don't want to admit or can't admit that no matter what side your on they are lying ... all of them.
great point. thats why electoral politics is a joke. real change doesnt happen that way. And its blatantly obvious that all politicians, on all sides, are liars and crooks. Yet people continue to vote them in.
Yeah, but what's the alternative?? Because it's not like great people are getting displaced by creeps. Everyone running sucks... so what? No one votes ... and their friends and family and lobbyists make all the choices? I don't think there is any choice but to vote for the best of a bad lot... Which is overwhelmingly depressing. But actually good people don't get into federal politics... the bullshit is systemic.
my way of thinking, and carlin would agree, is that the alternative's are endless. I think you provide an example of what MOST people believe. Most people dont vote, and if they do, the vote for candidates they dislike, or the lesser of two evils. I think most people agree the political system is rigged, corrupt and a racket. And I think if you asked most people what the solution to it is, theyd probably say, there is no solution because the current paradigm is the ONLY thing they know, or that its too depressing to do anything. Both, especially the latter, are extremely valid opinions.
And i agree, it is systemic. Which is why im a radical. Things like racism, homophobia, socioeconomic issues, war, poverty, those arent things we get a president to undo or change. it requires fundamental change, at the systemic level. thats what radical means. getting to the roots of the issue.
I think there are a million things people could do. We saw last year people starting a new mass movement, with the Occupy protests.
I talked about, maybe in this thread, getting the ballot, all ballots to have an option for people to vote "none of the above".
But i do think the solutions to this, are at the systemic level. this isnt going to be won by some law passed, or some reformist agenda. the whole rotten system needs to be brought down.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,798
my way of thinking, and carlin would agree, is that the alternative's are endless. I think you provide an example of what MOST people believe. Most people dont vote, and if they do, the vote for candidates they dislike, or the lesser of two evils. I think most people agree the political system is rigged, corrupt and a racket. And I think if you asked most people what the solution to it is, theyd probably say, there is no solution because the current paradigm is the ONLY thing they know, or that its too depressing to do anything. Both, especially the latter, are extremely valid opinions.
And i agree, it is systemic. Which is why im a radical. Things like racism, homophobia, socioeconomic issues, war, poverty, those arent things we get a president to undo or change. it requires fundamental change, at the systemic level. thats what radical means. getting to the roots of the issue.
I think there are a million things people could do. We saw last year people starting a new mass movement, with the Occupy protests.
I talked about, maybe in this thread, getting the ballot, all ballots to have an option for people to vote "none of the above".
But i do think the solutions to this, are at the systemic level. this isnt going to be won by some law passed, or some reformist agenda. the whole rotten system needs to be brought down.
I very much see your point but I guess I go for the full menu. Voting takes little time-especially because I request a mail-in absentee ballot- and even if the difference it makes is small, I'll take it. Besides, you can always vote "non of the above" by writing some in or voting third part. Also, I spend much more time writing letters and being active in working to make changes than I do voting. The most radical thing a person can do is do something rather than just talk about it. I'm guessing that description fits you, Music.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
my way of thinking, and carlin would agree, is that the alternative's are endless. I think you provide an example of what MOST people believe. Most people dont vote, and if they do, the vote for candidates they dislike, or the lesser of two evils. I think most people agree the political system is rigged, corrupt and a racket. And I think if you asked most people what the solution to it is, theyd probably say, there is no solution because the current paradigm is the ONLY thing they know, or that its too depressing to do anything. Both, especially the latter, are extremely valid opinions.
And i agree, it is systemic. Which is why im a radical. Things like racism, homophobia, socioeconomic issues, war, poverty, those arent things we get a president to undo or change. it requires fundamental change, at the systemic level. thats what radical means. getting to the roots of the issue.
I think there are a million things people could do. We saw last year people starting a new mass movement, with the Occupy protests.
I talked about, maybe in this thread, getting the ballot, all ballots to have an option for people to vote "none of the above".
But i do think the solutions to this, are at the systemic level. this isnt going to be won by some law passed, or some reformist agenda. the whole rotten system needs to be brought down.
I very much see your point but I guess I go for the full menu. Voting takes little time-especially because I request a mail-in absentee ballot- and even if the difference it makes is small, I'll take it. Besides, you can always vote "non of the above" by writing some in or voting third part. Also, I spend much more time writing letters and being active in working to make changes than I do voting. The most radical thing a person can do is do something rather than just talk about it. I'm guessing that description fits you, Music.
interesting points, and yeah that description does seem to fit me. Good to hear you are active in many ways fighting for the issues that mean something to you.
Ive voted nader twice, and then ron paul just a few days ago. For me, I felt angry in alot of ways. Angry that the 2 main parties werent discussing issues important to me. Meaning no matter who was elected, I wasnt going to feel represented or heard. And two, i actually did write in. I wrote in Ron Paul. He wasnt on the ballot. And my state, maybe like most states, doesnt register or count write in votes. Its counted as a "write in vote". The exact candidate, in this case, Ron Paul, wasnt counted by those who count votes. Thats a headscratcher. I voted specifically for Ron Paul because I wanted to send a message, and I think he had the best platform of any candidate, plus I disagree with the 2 major parties. I voted for him, and my vote wasnt even counted. Thats a complete disgrace.
I think alot of people feel really powerless right now. I was surprised how the economy really wasnt the big election 2012 issue that i thought it would be. It was my number one issue, beyond foreign policy. And I dont feel like anyone is discussing those issues. At all. Its not just one side that isnt. Its the entire political body that isnt discussing it. And yeah, it is completely depressing. I completely agree with you. Thinking about these issues, really considering them, war, poverty, unemployment, its not going to make you feel good, and its going to upset you. Take environmental issues for example. If you really sat down and thought about it, the rapid degredation and depletion of the environment and species and animals, things begin to look horrific. And what can you do about it? Recycling is an honorable thing, and im not putting down anyone who does it, but if you think about how polar bears might not exist in 20 years, what can you possibly do about it? Thats why for me, radical change has always been more attractive. I get too depressed thinking a president might authorize some new cause i love. Social change is so SLOW. Extremely slow. Take the movement to end the war in Vietnam, or the civil rights movements. Those took YEARS! Im one of those alarmist people, I cant think about slow change. Im more of a "lets bring down the entire system yesterday" type person.
But I also think activism should be a variety of tactics. letter writing and petitioning as you point out is good. But I also think direct action, civil disobedience, more extreme radical tactics also are necessary
Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
Do you believe everything FOX says? Talk about towing the party line. I have no problem with you being against Obama, or anything like that, but re-regurgitating the Republican buzz phrase they're using as an excuse for losing is pretty lame. Tell us what you think and I might not be such a dick, don't tell us what you're being told.
The funniest thing about all of this is that people voted Republican for pretty much the same reasons. The most played Republican/Romney commercial of the election was a woman asking the President what he has done for her, or her family. It came across very gimme gimme. Most people I know who voted Republican did so because they didn't want to pay more in taxes, and these are people living comfortable lifestyles. Is that not the same as what Republicans are accusing Democrats of doing? Are you going to sit there with a straight face and say Republicans voted for Romney out of some selfless love of the country and with no care for themselves? If so then you are delusional.
Republicans and Democrats are more similar than they'd like to admit. I'm sure some people on both sides voted with social issues and other things in mind. But at the end of the day people have to look after themselves, and most votes probably reflect that. I don't blame a rich person for voting Republican because they want lower taxes any more than I blame a poor person for voting Obama because they want healthcare or the free cookies Obama is apparently handing out. I mean, I have some opinions on it, and it's something that can be discussed all day. But this idiotic idea that Republican were draped in the flag and voting out of a selfless love for the country while the greedy Democrats went to the polls thinking of nothing but free stuff is so laughable, until you think about it, then it's very sad. And it's very sad that you're repeating it.
It just smacks of arrogance and bullshit. Yeah, Republicans know what is best for us, but those dumb Democrats could think of nothing but themselves and therefore the country is ruined. And I know Republicans who feel the same way. I don't mind Republicans, politically I'm very middle of the road (though I have been accused of being conservative, at least in some of my views) and hate the extreme left as much as I hate the extreme right. And when you go repeating crap like that it makes you sound like some extremist with no thoughts of your own. Or go on sounding like Bill O'Reilly's cheerleader, the choice is yours, it's a free country. STILL. Can you believe it? Aren't we all supposed to be communists by now or something?
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
Do you believe everything FOX says? Talk about towing the party line. I have no problem with you being against Obama, or anything like that, but re-regurgitating the Republican buzz phrase they're using as an excuse for losing is pretty lame. Tell us what you think and I might not be such a dick, don't tell us what you're being told.
The funniest thing about all of this is that people voted Republican for pretty much the same reasons. The most played Republican/Romney commercial of the election was a woman asking the President what he has done for her, or her family. It came across very gimme gimme. Most people I know who voted Republican did so because they didn't want to pay more in taxes, and these are people living comfortable lifestyles. Is that not the same as what Republicans are accusing Democrats of doing? Are you going to sit there with a straight face and say Republicans voted for Romney out of some selfless love of the country and with no care for themselves? If so then you are delusional.
Republicans and Democrats are more similar than they'd like to admit. I'm sure some people on both sides voted with social issues and other things in mind. But at the end of the day people have to look after themselves, and most votes probably reflect that. I don't blame a rich person for voting Republican because they want lower taxes any more than I blame a poor person for voting Obama because they want healthcare or the free cookies Obama is apparently handing out. I mean, I have some opinions on it, and it's something that can be discussed all day. But this idiotic idea that Republican were draped in the flag and voting out of a selfless love for the country while the greedy Democrats went to the polls thinking of nothing but free stuff is so laughable, until you think about it, then it's very sad. And it's very sad that you're repeating it.
It just smacks of arrogance and bullshit. Yeah, Republicans know what is best for us, but those dumb Democrats could think of nothing but themselves and therefore the country is ruined. And I know Republicans who feel the same way. I don't mind Republicans, politically I'm very middle of the road (though I have been accused of being conservative, at least in some of my views) and hate the extreme left as much as I hate the extreme right. And when you go repeating crap like that it makes you sound like some extremist with no thoughts of your own. Or go on sounding like Bill O'Reilly's cheerleader, the choice is yours, it's a free country. STILL. Can you believe it? Aren't we all supposed to be communists by now or something?
What he said.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
The funniest thing about all of this is that people voted Republican for pretty much the same reasons. The most played Republican/Romney commercial of the election was a woman asking the President what he has done for her, or her family. It came across very gimme gimme. Most people I know who voted Republican did so because they didn't want to pay more in taxes, and these are people living comfortable lifestyles. Is that not the same as what Republicans are accusing Democrats of doing? Are you going to sit there with a straight face and say Republicans voted for Romney out of some selfless love of the country and with no care for themselves? If so then you are delusional.
Republicans and Democrats are more similar than they'd like to admit. I'm sure some people on both sides voted with social issues and other things in mind. But at the end of the day people have to look after themselves, and most votes probably reflect that. I don't blame a rich person for voting Republican because they want lower taxes any more than I blame a poor person for voting Obama because they want healthcare or the free cookies Obama is apparently handing out. I mean, I have some opinions on it, and it's something that can be discussed all day. But this idiotic idea that Republican were draped in the flag and voting out of a selfless love for the country while the greedy Democrats went to the polls thinking of nothing but free stuff is so laughable, until you think about it, then it's very sad. And it's very sad that you're repeating it.
It just smacks of arrogance and bullshit. Yeah, Republicans know what is best for us, but those dumb Democrats could think of nothing but themselves and therefore the country is ruined. And I know Republicans who feel the same way. I don't mind Republicans, politically I'm very middle of the road (though I have been accused of being conservative, at least in some of my views) and hate the extreme left as much as I hate the extreme right. And when you go repeating crap like that it makes you sound like some extremist with no thoughts of your own. Or go on sounding like Bill O'Reilly's cheerleader, the choice is yours, it's a free country. STILL. Can you believe it? Aren't we all supposed to be communists by now or something?
Comments
Ok..
Can they protect the people from tyrannical corporations?
Can they protect my family from Chriatians Hell-bent of forcing their religion on us?
Can they protect the working class from having their jobs sent to third world countries?
Can they protect the people who just want a fair living wage for the hard work thy do?
It just amazes me at how many people don't want to admit or can't admit that no matter what side your on they are lying ... all of them.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
great point. thats why electoral politics is a joke. real change doesnt happen that way. And its blatantly obvious that all politicians, on all sides, are liars and crooks. Yet people continue to vote them in.
Yeah, I agree with Carlin's sentiment and I agree with what you say here, PJ_Soul. One of Carlin's best skills was to get us to use critical thinking rather than going with knee jerk responses- which to me means thinking critically about what he had to say as well. I agree that most of our elected officials do not fully represent us but we have the right to vote and I'm thankful for that right and I chose to vote for the person I thought had the best chances of making the best decisions. I generally don't vote for third party candidates when I know full well they won't win but if I really think it doesn't make a difference I'll throw out a vote on a third part. In the case of this years presidential election I thought it made a significant difference and I did not vote third party and I definitely did not choose to not vote.
my way of thinking, and carlin would agree, is that the alternative's are endless. I think you provide an example of what MOST people believe. Most people dont vote, and if they do, the vote for candidates they dislike, or the lesser of two evils. I think most people agree the political system is rigged, corrupt and a racket. And I think if you asked most people what the solution to it is, theyd probably say, there is no solution because the current paradigm is the ONLY thing they know, or that its too depressing to do anything. Both, especially the latter, are extremely valid opinions.
And i agree, it is systemic. Which is why im a radical. Things like racism, homophobia, socioeconomic issues, war, poverty, those arent things we get a president to undo or change. it requires fundamental change, at the systemic level. thats what radical means. getting to the roots of the issue.
I think there are a million things people could do. We saw last year people starting a new mass movement, with the Occupy protests.
I talked about, maybe in this thread, getting the ballot, all ballots to have an option for people to vote "none of the above".
But i do think the solutions to this, are at the systemic level. this isnt going to be won by some law passed, or some reformist agenda. the whole rotten system needs to be brought down.
I very much see your point but I guess I go for the full menu. Voting takes little time-especially because I request a mail-in absentee ballot- and even if the difference it makes is small, I'll take it. Besides, you can always vote "non of the above" by writing some in or voting third part. Also, I spend much more time writing letters and being active in working to make changes than I do voting. The most radical thing a person can do is do something rather than just talk about it. I'm guessing that description fits you, Music.
interesting points, and yeah that description does seem to fit me. Good to hear you are active in many ways fighting for the issues that mean something to you.
Ive voted nader twice, and then ron paul just a few days ago. For me, I felt angry in alot of ways. Angry that the 2 main parties werent discussing issues important to me. Meaning no matter who was elected, I wasnt going to feel represented or heard. And two, i actually did write in. I wrote in Ron Paul. He wasnt on the ballot. And my state, maybe like most states, doesnt register or count write in votes. Its counted as a "write in vote". The exact candidate, in this case, Ron Paul, wasnt counted by those who count votes. Thats a headscratcher. I voted specifically for Ron Paul because I wanted to send a message, and I think he had the best platform of any candidate, plus I disagree with the 2 major parties. I voted for him, and my vote wasnt even counted. Thats a complete disgrace.
I think alot of people feel really powerless right now. I was surprised how the economy really wasnt the big election 2012 issue that i thought it would be. It was my number one issue, beyond foreign policy. And I dont feel like anyone is discussing those issues. At all. Its not just one side that isnt. Its the entire political body that isnt discussing it. And yeah, it is completely depressing. I completely agree with you. Thinking about these issues, really considering them, war, poverty, unemployment, its not going to make you feel good, and its going to upset you. Take environmental issues for example. If you really sat down and thought about it, the rapid degredation and depletion of the environment and species and animals, things begin to look horrific. And what can you do about it? Recycling is an honorable thing, and im not putting down anyone who does it, but if you think about how polar bears might not exist in 20 years, what can you possibly do about it? Thats why for me, radical change has always been more attractive. I get too depressed thinking a president might authorize some new cause i love. Social change is so SLOW. Extremely slow. Take the movement to end the war in Vietnam, or the civil rights movements. Those took YEARS! Im one of those alarmist people, I cant think about slow change. Im more of a "lets bring down the entire system yesterday" type person.
But I also think activism should be a variety of tactics. letter writing and petitioning as you point out is good. But I also think direct action, civil disobedience, more extreme radical tactics also are necessary
Do you believe everything FOX says? Talk about towing the party line. I have no problem with you being against Obama, or anything like that, but re-regurgitating the Republican buzz phrase they're using as an excuse for losing is pretty lame. Tell us what you think and I might not be such a dick, don't tell us what you're being told.
The funniest thing about all of this is that people voted Republican for pretty much the same reasons. The most played Republican/Romney commercial of the election was a woman asking the President what he has done for her, or her family. It came across very gimme gimme. Most people I know who voted Republican did so because they didn't want to pay more in taxes, and these are people living comfortable lifestyles. Is that not the same as what Republicans are accusing Democrats of doing? Are you going to sit there with a straight face and say Republicans voted for Romney out of some selfless love of the country and with no care for themselves? If so then you are delusional.
Republicans and Democrats are more similar than they'd like to admit. I'm sure some people on both sides voted with social issues and other things in mind. But at the end of the day people have to look after themselves, and most votes probably reflect that. I don't blame a rich person for voting Republican because they want lower taxes any more than I blame a poor person for voting Obama because they want healthcare or the free cookies Obama is apparently handing out. I mean, I have some opinions on it, and it's something that can be discussed all day. But this idiotic idea that Republican were draped in the flag and voting out of a selfless love for the country while the greedy Democrats went to the polls thinking of nothing but free stuff is so laughable, until you think about it, then it's very sad. And it's very sad that you're repeating it.
It just smacks of arrogance and bullshit. Yeah, Republicans know what is best for us, but those dumb Democrats could think of nothing but themselves and therefore the country is ruined. And I know Republicans who feel the same way. I don't mind Republicans, politically I'm very middle of the road (though I have been accused of being conservative, at least in some of my views) and hate the extreme left as much as I hate the extreme right. And when you go repeating crap like that it makes you sound like some extremist with no thoughts of your own. Or go on sounding like Bill O'Reilly's cheerleader, the choice is yours, it's a free country. STILL. Can you believe it? Aren't we all supposed to be communists by now or something?
Arguably the best post of the election genre.