when I'm telling someone not to do drugs, do I tell them that they also make you feel wonderful?
when I'm telling someone that Romney would be a horrible president, do I tell them he's probably an excellent husband and father, and probably a really nice guy?
gimme a break dude. Ed's not a politician. He believes something is wrong, so he speaks about what's wrong about it. he thinks shit needs to be labelled because he believes the health issue trumps the possibility of costs rising because of it. it's pretty simple.
But that's the point, it's not Eddie Vedder's job to spell everything out for the audience, which is why the audience should take the initiative to find out all sides of the issue and then make up their mind with where they stand.
when I'm telling someone not to do drugs, do I tell them that they also make you feel wonderful?
when I'm telling someone that Romney would be a horrible president, do I tell them he's probably an excellent husband and father, and probably a really nice guy?
gimme a break dude. Ed's not a politician. He believes something is wrong, so he speaks about what's wrong about it. he thinks shit needs to be labelled because he believes the health issue trumps the possibility of costs rising because of it. it's pretty simple.
He "believes" something is wrong. It's his beliefs. I'm sorry but there's health care practitioners, doctors, etc. on both sides of the fence. Eddie I'm quite sure doesn't know more about the issue than either of those parties. He has every right to express his beliefs as does everyone else does to do their own research. Again, the only point of y thread.
well if that was your only point why did you name the thread "eddie's half truths"? you are basically accusing someone of telling lies, when all he's doing is what anyone of us do on here every day, telling our opinion about something. there's always going to be someone more knowledgeable about every single subject than any given person, does that mean we should all shut our mouths?
you first.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
when I'm telling someone not to do drugs, do I tell them that they also make you feel wonderful?
when I'm telling someone that Romney would be a horrible president, do I tell them he's probably an excellent husband and father, and probably a really nice guy?
gimme a break dude. Ed's not a politician. He believes something is wrong, so he speaks about what's wrong about it. he thinks shit needs to be labelled because he believes the health issue trumps the possibility of costs rising because of it. it's pretty simple.
But that's the point, it's not Eddie Vedder's job to spell everything out for the audience, which is why the audience should take the initiative to find out all sides of the issue and then make up their mind with where they stand.
it's any performers job to do and say whatever the hell they want at their show. it's their forum. if anything, regardless of the position he takes on it, just bringing this issue to the forefront will bring awareness to it, make people research it for themselves if it interests them, and when they do, they might not agree with him either. I can't understand why anyone would think this is a bad thing to do.
I didn't know about this until I read this thread. And I can't say I necessarily agree with Ed. If it actually does cost the farmers that much more and if it is actually a fairly redundant thing to do, then why bother?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And for me I separate that stuff. I truly don't care what anyone's political views are. When I go to a PJ concert or EV show I show the individuals proper respect and listen. Other than being kind to people...I usually tune out what Eddie says between songs...often laugh a bit...but it's his forum, opinion, and I respect it. It's just hard for me to sometimes separate his "reality" from actual reality...especially when he talks about people being tied up with their electronic devices and virtual worlds and I walk by his EV merchandise booth and he's selling iPad cover with his initials on them for 15 bucks.
if you do actually separate your politics from music why is it important to post about eddie vedder and his politics?
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
And for me I separate that stuff. I truly don't care what anyone's political views are. When I go to a PJ concert or EV show I show the individuals proper respect and listen. Other than being kind to people...I usually tune out what Eddie says between songs...often laugh a bit...but it's his forum, opinion, and I respect it. It's just hard for me to sometimes separate his "reality" from actual reality...especially when he talks about people being tied up with their electronic devices and virtual worlds and I walk by his EV merchandise booth and he's selling iPad cover with his initials on them for 15 bucks.
if you do actually separate your politics from music why is it important to post about eddie vedder and his politics?
I didn't post about his politics. I posted about what he said only being one side of the story., His side. I didn't say he was wrong. I didn't say he was right. I didn't post my beliefs. I juts made a pont to tell people to do their own research and make up their own mind.
well if that was your only point why did you name the thread "eddie's half truths"? you are basically accusing someone of telling lies, when all he's doing is what anyone of us do on here every day, telling our opinion about something. there's always going to be someone more knowledgeable about every single subject than any given person, does that mean we should all shut our mouths?
it's any performers job to do and say whatever the hell they want at their show. it's their forum. if anything, regardless of the position he takes on it, just bringing this issue to the forefront will bring awareness to it, make people research it for themselves if it interests them, and when they do, they might not agree with him either. I can't understand why anyone would think this is a bad thing to do.
I didn't know about this until I read this thread. And I can't say I necessarily agree with Ed. If it actually does cost the farmers that much more and if it is actually a fairly redundant thing to do, then why bother?
This is just another side of the issue and I don't mean it in a condescending way to you or anyone else. If I remember correctly Eddie at the show Thursday night made it sound like it was just as simple and cut and dried of an issue of "putting lables on the food we eat". Sounds simple enough but it's not. The more research one does onto the issue it's not that simple.
politics has inspired some of the great art throughout history.
back in the middle ages it was the poets who told the history and added the social commentary.
why would it be any different for a musician to add social commentary to their work today?
my opinion is that if you go to the show, the artist has the floor. the artist has rented the building for the night so they have every right to use it however they would like. one of my favorite stories of an artist using their show for their platform was in the early 90s when public enemy played a show in phoenix i believe it was. at the time arizona did not recognize martin luther king day. public enemy had a song called "by the time i get to arizona" that addressed that issue. they were the opening act for one of the big bands of the day and they came out, played that song and walked off the stage. they played that one song and made their statement, and they still got paid. pretty rock n roll imo...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
honestly, I don't see how you could be anything apart from a liberal and follow pearl jam.. I'm scratching my heard over it in fact.
Why? Maybe some people like the music and don't give a rats ass about politics.
But if you don't think PJ has their fair share of fans who also vote republican...think again.
it's just my opinion and I hold the politics with the music.. I understand it's different for a lot of others.
I'm not a liberal, and I like pearl jam and EV solo even more. I think a very small percent of their/his songs have political content or overtones. I'm in it for the emotional content. I don't pick my friends or my art/hobbies/interests by political affiliation, I rarely if ever take that into account.
I'm a pearl jam and EV fan because songs like black, porch, rvm, deep, blood, dissident, light years, parachutes, just breath, the end, your true, come back, satellite, broken heart .. ESP broken heart ... speak to me. I think Eddie is an amazing lyricist, one of the best since Jim Morrison. I think the music they write is amazing. I think the energy they bring to shows is amazing. I think the stories Ed tells between songs are hilarious.
I scratch my head about people like you and have for awhile now. May you never need the solace of a good pj song and find all you hear is politics. The pain in our lives does not always have a political bent, rarely in fact.
[quote="lukin2006"ing. I think the stories Ed tells between songs are hilarious.
I scratch my head about people like you and have for awhile now. May you never need the solace of a good pj song and find all you hear is politics. The pain in our lives does not always have a political bent, rarely in fact.
I wasn't attacking anyone it's just what I go for in my music.. a little bit of both. I didn't judge anyone who isn't liberal and does love pearl jam or any other 'liberal' minded band I just personally don't understand it because it's not something I feel.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
[ The pain in our lives does not always have a political bent, rarely in fact.
For me and many of the people I work with and have known throughout my life there has been a political bent to their pain..at least when we've dug deep enough. That may not have been the case for you, but I wouldn't say "rarely" applies to the situations I've known. That's not to say that you can't connect with PJ on an emotional level and still not agree with their politics.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
it's any performers job to do and say whatever the hell they want at their show. it's their forum. if anything, regardless of the position he takes on it, just bringing this issue to the forefront will bring awareness to it, make people research it for themselves if it interests them, and when they do, they might not agree with him either. I can't understand why anyone would think this is a bad thing to do.
I didn't know about this until I read this thread. And I can't say I necessarily agree with Ed. If it actually does cost the farmers that much more and if it is actually a fairly redundant thing to do, then why bother?
This is just another side of the issue and I don't mean it in a condescending way to you or anyone else. If I remember correctly Eddie at the show Thursday night made it sound like it was just as simple and cut and dried of an issue of "putting lables on the food we eat". Sounds simple enough but it's not. The more research one does onto the issue it's not that simple.
I know what you mean but it's not like he's going to put down his uke and talk about the issue at length. he's just bringing it up and leaving the rest to the audience to look up for themselves. I think he holds his audience to a bit of a higher standard that they do care about the issues, not just his issues, but any issues. I have heard him say at many shows "look it up for yourself and decide on your own, but please, look into it". He has even said "I don't care who you vote for, just get out there and let your voice be heard".
so my point was that you were painting someone with a pretty broad brush.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Having just seen EV back to back he definitely has his own personal political agenda. He's an artist. I pay to see him. I realize I don't have to go and it's his forum to say what he wants. That's fine and that's great and I respect that and love people with varying political views. It's what makes this country so great. I will just ask for people to not follow blindly and do your own research and make your own decisions especially as voting day is upon us. Just because Eddie tells you to vote for proposition 37 in CA or says he would like to smush Micahel Brown's face in a pile of his own dog's shit (I thought that was in pretty poor taste actually) doesn't mean it's the best choice or ways to feel for yourself. Maybe it is...maybe it isn't...just do your own research.
Eddie has and does like to only tell half political truths. Seen it for years at the PJ shows and now his solo shows have turned into political rallies for the liberal Democrats. DO your own research and make up your own minds.
Ed is an individual so, yes, he expresses his own opinion at his shows. Our country allows people to express their opinions. Ed has an audience so more people get to hear his opinions. That's one of the perks of having an audience. People are listening to you. (!!)
They might come for your music only, but they get to hear other things you think about!
In America, voting is private so...all PJ fans do not have to go along with his views. They have a choice.
I think it's perfectly appropriate for Ed to talk about what he's thinking about around election time. Don't people go to hear his voice and hear him talk? If they don't like his politics, then, maybe that's a part of him they don't connect with. It doesn't really matter, does it?
Many people DO connect with his ideas. That's just life. Some people have stuff in common, while other people don't. :geek:
If I had to generalize, Ed's political leanings reflect that he cares about people. He cares about women's rights. He cares about the middle and lower classes. That might be because he believes women should get equal treatment to men and he grew up in a household that was not rich so he has sympathy for people who have to work hard.
I think that's natural. It is totally in harmony with his kind disposition.
I think it would be more surprising if he sided with the selfish 1% even though he's a wealthy rock star. :eh:
[ The pain in our lives does not always have a political bent, rarely in fact.
For me and many of the people I work with and have known throughout my life there has been a political bent to their pain..at least when we've dug deep enough. That may not have been the case for you, but I wouldn't say "rarely" applies to the situations I've known. That's not to say that you can't connect with PJ on an emotional level and still not agree with their politics.
Well that certainly makes me stop and think a bit, so thanks. If I lost a love one to a stupid war or a mindless police action, I'm with you. If the drugs or practices I need to get better haven't been politically mandated, ok, I get your point. Policies passed or not pass that affect myself and loved ones, our stupidity around marriage, profiling, ok I see that. I get empathy even, what our actions are causing in others what that makes them feel. Politics broadly defined is the interactions of humans period. But the US red on blue politics I do think rarely causes the type of pain to make you stop your car on the side of the road and breakdown sobbing on your steering wheel. jobs? Money stress? Environmental destruction? Bombs dropping down....
Maybe I just need to really dig into my pain, huh? That helped you find the political bent? All I found was the random mindlessness of a ball of rock spinning around a big flaming sphere.
[ The pain in our lives does not always have a political bent, rarely in fact.
For me and many of the people I work with and have known throughout my life there has been a political bent to their pain..at least when we've dug deep enough. That may not have been the case for you, but I wouldn't say "rarely" applies to the situations I've known. That's not to say that you can't connect with PJ on an emotional level and still not agree with their politics.
Well that certainly makes me stop and think a bit, so thanks. If I lost a love one to a stupid war or a mindless police action, I'm with you. If the drugs or practices I need to get better haven't been politically mandated, ok, I get your point. Policies passed or not pass that affect myself and loved ones, our stupidity around marriage, profiling, ok I see that. I get empathy even, what our actions are causing in others what that makes them feel. Politics broadly defined is the interactions of humans period. But the US red on blue politics I do think rarely causes the type of pain to make you stop your car on the side of the road and breakdown sobbing on your steering wheel. jobs? Money stress? Environmental destruction? Bombs dropping down....
Maybe I just need to really dig into my pain, huh? That helped you find the political bent? All I found was the random mindlessness of a ball of rock spinning around a big flaming sphere.
I hear what you're saying on the red on blue politics...and that's the stuff that drives me a little crazy. I don't think it matters what side of the political spectrum you are on...but for some pain there is a political connection since we aren't just people, but people in our environment. The things you mentioned definitely have a connection, as well as things like sexual violence, domestic violence, social equality, etc. Laws and the political and social environment play a role in those things too (things like VAWA). As people move through healing, some find that becoming socially or politically active is an important piece of it (i.e. things like Take Back the Night, V-Day, etc, for example). It's not a necessary part of healing, nor would I say that someone has to find the political connection to their pain nor that there always is one, but for some there is a pretty strong connection. And again...that doesn't mean people have to connect with PJ politically in order to connect with them emotionally or to enjoy their music. I just remember seeing Eddie with Gloria Steinem and that was part of what sealed the deal for me
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I think I might find it difficult to enjoy a PJ or EV live show as much if I was an american republican.
For me, it's less about where an artist's ideologies lie versus the depth of their message. There are plenty of artists I may disagree with, but still respect their process for arriving at their beliefs. I only find it irritating when it's kneejerk, confrontational, and/or demonstrates a lack of comprehension.
The things you mentioned definitely have a connection, as well as things like sexual violence, domestic violence, social equality, etc. Laws and the political and social environment play a role in those things too (things like VAWA). As people move through healing, some find that becoming socially or politically active is an important piece of it (i.e. things like Take Back the Night, V-Day, etc, for example.
Again, I think it's rare for politics to cause deep vein-slicing, gut-wrenching pain. Primal level pain. And I think getting involved and getting political to do something about the pain, to heal, is certainly valid.
For example, I can't find the politics in sexual or domestic violence, the act of the moment, that's primal stuff to me. The initial onslaught doesn't seem political. After that, of course, the repercussions, penalties, the will to engage resources and the politics involved in how you can or can't seek restitution, justice, and raise awareness to minimize these primal acts for others, of course. Getting political can get the healing going. Sure.
"if only that law had been passed, she wouldn't have raped me...." I think I want to hold the rapist accountable magnitudes of order more than the politicians that failed to act. I'm not a big believer in deterrence philosophies I guess?
All that said, as I've said before, Ed has a mic and a brain, he is free to us em. I think he uses both pretty dang well. I don't support all of his positions, and I don't walk out on masters of war. But it's sad that he and some folks here want me to....
I think I might find it difficult to enjoy a PJ or EV live show as much if I was an american republican.
For me, it's less about where an artist's ideologies lie versus the depth of their message. There are plenty of artists I may disagree with, but still respect their process for arriving at their beliefs. I only find it irritating when it's kneejerk, confrontational, and/or demonstrates a lack of comprehension.
I just mean because not all bands talk about their shit at gigs, Ed does.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The things you mentioned definitely have a connection, as well as things like sexual violence, domestic violence, social equality, etc. Laws and the political and social environment play a role in those things too (things like VAWA). As people move through healing, some find that becoming socially or politically active is an important piece of it (i.e. things like Take Back the Night, V-Day, etc, for example.
Again, I think it's rare for politics to cause deep vein-slicing, gut-wrenching pain. Primal level pain. And I think getting involved and getting political to do something about the pain, to heal, is certainly valid.
For example, I can't find the politics in sexual or domestic violence, the act of the moment, that's primal stuff to me. The initial onslaught doesn't seem political. After that, of course, the repercussions, penalties, the will to engage resources and the politics involved in how you can or can't seek restitution, justice, and raise awareness to minimize these primal acts for others, of course. Getting political can get the healing going. Sure.
"if only that law had been passed, she wouldn't have raped me...." I think I want to hold the rapist accountable magnitudes of order more than the politicians that failed to act. I'm not a big believer in deterrence philosophies I guess?
All that said, as I've said before, Ed has a mic and a brain, he is free to us em. I think he uses both pretty dang well. I don't support all of his positions, and I don't walk out on masters of war. But it's sad that he and some folks here want me to....
Considering that rape is often used as a weapon of war, politics can be an integral part of the act of the moment. It may happen at a personal level, but there is a political driving force behind it. Acts of genocide and hate crimes, which are driven by a political environment, can cause that deep primal pain as well. People are targeted because of their gender, sexual orientation, national origin, etc. That is the political being used on a personal level. If you talk to enough trauma survivors the link becomes astonishingly clear; sometimes it's necessary to step outside of our own personal experiences of pain to understand it. So it's not just in the healing, but is a part of the cause as well. It's not just about holding people accountable for committing the crime or deterring the act, but the social and political environments that contribute to the crime.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
So I recognize that we are both unwilling to slice open a vein to reveal the source of our personal pain, mine quite intimate and personal, your's from a source of some political intent, but every bit as intimate and personal no doubt. I'm quite willing to admit awesome music and/or a politically motivated singer can provide some salve for that.
I do see your point about politically induced pain, but I don't think that is something the average pearl jam fan experiences. On average. Worldwide audience though, sure. But Joe goes to a show because he's frustrated, in mental anguish, with the pain his government is causing and finds solace in hearing Ed speak of that. And Sally goes to a show because her ex-boyfriend cheated on her and her grandma is in the hospital and she wants to scream and rage and laugh and cry. Both experiences of that show are valid.
But I'd argue that Sally would trade her problem's for joe's in a heartbeat, and to hear joe tell her that she's just not getting the full experience of the music is simply insulting. "Why are you even here, Sally? It's not like your boyfriend beat you like those Soldiers in Iraq beat those prisoners."
So I recognize that we are both unwilling to slice open a vein to reveal the source of our personal pain, mine quite intimate and personal, your's from a source of some political intent, but every bit as intimate and personal no doubt. I'm quite willing to admit awesome music and/or a politically motivated singer can provide some salve for that.
I do see your point about politically induced pain, but I don't think that is something the average pearl jam fan experiences. On average. Worldwide audience though, sure. But Joe goes to a show because he's frustrated, in mental anguish, with the pain his government is causing and finds solace in hearing Ed speak of that. And Sally goes to a show because her ex-boyfriend cheated on her and her grandma is in the hospital and she wants to scream and rage and laugh and cry. Both experiences of that show are valid.
But I'd argue that Sally would trade her problem's for joe's in a heartbeat, and to hear joe tell her that she's just not getting the full experience of the music is simply insulting. "Why are you even here, Sally? It's not like your boyfriend beat you like those Soldiers in Iraq beat those prisoners."
Ultimately I think pain is pain. I don't think it can or should be measured against other('s) pain. I would say that you and likely a lot of people would be surprised at the source and nature of their neighbor's (and therefore the average Pearl Jam fan's) pain and some of the political links. I say that because I've been surprised.
I do agree that an awesome singer and amazing music can be a salve for that pain; and while people may connect to the music for somewhat different reasons and in varying ways it doesn't make that connection any less valid, genuine, healing or enjoyable. We are on the same page there.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Hmmm. I don't know why I can't shake this, sorry, but thanks for letting me work through it.
I don't quite agree with the somewhat moral relativism of "pain is pain and can't be compared." I think it is valid that all these things you bring up can be painful, and I know everyone has different thresholds of what they can bear. But the person crying over the skinned knee does not get to go into the ER before the person with their skull bashed in. Not a true comparison, we are talking mental anguish I know. But still....
The genesis of our debate, and something I have seen in this community for way too long now, is that folks who don't get Ed's politics can't be having as full an experience as those that do. I argued that folks with experiences that are reflected in PJs lyrics on the emotional front are perhaps getting every bit of it, if not more. If you're only connecting on a political level with someone I'd say that pales to an emotional level, but it's fuzzy because politics is personal and is emotional. I'm not doing a very good job on that. And of course, sure, there's those who connect on both.
"hey, have a great show, I may cry a bit cause I'm just getting over a bad breakup..."
"really? Ed is working to get my friends out of jail, you should probably just leave...."
Music is political. It always has been and it always will be. From slavery to the blues, to rap to rock and roll, it has always been political and always will be. And most likely, it will largely be left leaning given the artistic nature.
Why anyone cares what EV says politically boggles my mind.
Hmmm. I don't know why I can't shake this, sorry, but thanks for letting me work through it.
I don't quite agree with the somewhat moral relativism of "pain is pain and can't be compared." I think it is valid that all these things you bring up can be painful, and I know everyone has different thresholds of what they can bear. But the person crying over the skinned knee does not get to go into the ER before the person with their skull bashed in. Not a true comparison, we are talking mental anguish I know. But still....
The genesis of our debate, and something I have seen in this community for way too long now, is that folks who don't get Ed's politics can't be having as full an experience as those that do. I argued that folks with experiences that are reflected in PJs lyrics on the emotional front are perhaps getting every bit of it, if not more. If you're only connecting on a political level with someone I'd say that pales to an emotional level, but it's fuzzy because politics is personal and is emotional. I'm not doing a very good job on that. And of course, sure, there's those who connect on both.
"hey, have a great show, I may cry a bit cause I'm just getting over a bad breakup..."
"really? Ed is working to get my friends out of jail, you should probably just leave...."
What's painful to one person may not be painful (or as painful) to a different person because it's so multifaceted. It's subjective and none of us can tell someone else what the extent of their pain is or should be. A person with a skinned knee who also has some extreme skin condition or osteogenesis imperfecta might feel that pain more intensely than someone with just a skinned knee. One person may find a breakup more painful than someone else because of where they are in their lives, their personal sense of self-worth, their prior experiences and losses, their physical or mental health, their other social supports, etc. That breakup might be just as painful as a death or some act of violence is to someone else. We can't look at a situation and judge what the extent of the pain for someone else is or should be. It's not one dimensional.
I don't think that's the genesis of our debate. I think maybe that's the debate you were having with Zoso,but I'm comfortable with you working it through with me. I responded to the statement that pain is rarely political, because in my experiences of the pain I have witnessed the political link has not been that rare. I can only speak for myself, and that is that I connect with the music on a personal and political level; that's what drew me in and that's why I connect with PJ in a way I haven't connected with any other music. I don't discount that the connection can be as strong or as valid for someone who doesn't connect on that political level or maybe even disagrees with it.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Comments
But that's the point, it's not Eddie Vedder's job to spell everything out for the audience, which is why the audience should take the initiative to find out all sides of the issue and then make up their mind with where they stand.
What? :?
well if that was your only point why did you name the thread "eddie's half truths"? you are basically accusing someone of telling lies, when all he's doing is what anyone of us do on here every day, telling our opinion about something. there's always going to be someone more knowledgeable about every single subject than any given person, does that mean we should all shut our mouths?
you first.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
it's any performers job to do and say whatever the hell they want at their show. it's their forum. if anything, regardless of the position he takes on it, just bringing this issue to the forefront will bring awareness to it, make people research it for themselves if it interests them, and when they do, they might not agree with him either. I can't understand why anyone would think this is a bad thing to do.
I didn't know about this until I read this thread. And I can't say I necessarily agree with Ed. If it actually does cost the farmers that much more and if it is actually a fairly redundant thing to do, then why bother?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
if you do actually separate your politics from music why is it important to post about eddie vedder and his politics?
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I didn't post about his politics. I posted about what he said only being one side of the story., His side. I didn't say he was wrong. I didn't say he was right. I didn't post my beliefs. I juts made a pont to tell people to do their own research and make up their own mind.
Half truths are not lies. Thye are half truths.
Why? Maybe some people like the music and don't give a rats ass about politics.
But if you don't think PJ has their fair share of fans who also vote republican...think again.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
This is just another side of the issue and I don't mean it in a condescending way to you or anyone else. If I remember correctly Eddie at the show Thursday night made it sound like it was just as simple and cut and dried of an issue of "putting lables on the food we eat". Sounds simple enough but it's not. The more research one does onto the issue it's not that simple.
it's just my opinion and I hold the politics with the music.. I understand it's different for a lot of others.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
back in the middle ages it was the poets who told the history and added the social commentary.
why would it be any different for a musician to add social commentary to their work today?
my opinion is that if you go to the show, the artist has the floor. the artist has rented the building for the night so they have every right to use it however they would like. one of my favorite stories of an artist using their show for their platform was in the early 90s when public enemy played a show in phoenix i believe it was. at the time arizona did not recognize martin luther king day. public enemy had a song called "by the time i get to arizona" that addressed that issue. they were the opening act for one of the big bands of the day and they came out, played that song and walked off the stage. they played that one song and made their statement, and they still got paid. pretty rock n roll imo...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm not a liberal, and I like pearl jam and EV solo even more. I think a very small percent of their/his songs have political content or overtones. I'm in it for the emotional content. I don't pick my friends or my art/hobbies/interests by political affiliation, I rarely if ever take that into account.
I'm a pearl jam and EV fan because songs like black, porch, rvm, deep, blood, dissident, light years, parachutes, just breath, the end, your true, come back, satellite, broken heart .. ESP broken heart ... speak to me. I think Eddie is an amazing lyricist, one of the best since Jim Morrison. I think the music they write is amazing. I think the energy they bring to shows is amazing. I think the stories Ed tells between songs are hilarious.
I scratch my head about people like you and have for awhile now. May you never need the solace of a good pj song and find all you hear is politics. The pain in our lives does not always have a political bent, rarely in fact.
http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.ph ... 07#p740807
I wasn't attacking anyone it's just what I go for in my music.. a little bit of both. I didn't judge anyone who isn't liberal and does love pearl jam or any other 'liberal' minded band I just personally don't understand it because it's not something I feel.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I know what you mean but it's not like he's going to put down his uke and talk about the issue at length. he's just bringing it up and leaving the rest to the audience to look up for themselves. I think he holds his audience to a bit of a higher standard that they do care about the issues, not just his issues, but any issues. I have heard him say at many shows "look it up for yourself and decide on your own, but please, look into it". He has even said "I don't care who you vote for, just get out there and let your voice be heard".
so my point was that you were painting someone with a pretty broad brush.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Ed is an individual so, yes, he expresses his own opinion at his shows. Our country allows people to express their opinions. Ed has an audience so more people get to hear his opinions. That's one of the perks of having an audience. People are listening to you. (!!)
They might come for your music only, but they get to hear other things you think about!
In America, voting is private so...all PJ fans do not have to go along with his views. They have a choice.
I think it's perfectly appropriate for Ed to talk about what he's thinking about around election time. Don't people go to hear his voice and hear him talk? If they don't like his politics, then, maybe that's a part of him they don't connect with. It doesn't really matter, does it?
Many people DO connect with his ideas. That's just life. Some people have stuff in common, while other people don't. :geek:
If I had to generalize, Ed's political leanings reflect that he cares about people. He cares about women's rights. He cares about the middle and lower classes. That might be because he believes women should get equal treatment to men and he grew up in a household that was not rich so he has sympathy for people who have to work hard.
I think that's natural. It is totally in harmony with his kind disposition.
I think it would be more surprising if he sided with the selfish 1% even though he's a wealthy rock star. :eh:
Johnny Ramone was able to find a way
Well that certainly makes me stop and think a bit, so thanks. If I lost a love one to a stupid war or a mindless police action, I'm with you. If the drugs or practices I need to get better haven't been politically mandated, ok, I get your point. Policies passed or not pass that affect myself and loved ones, our stupidity around marriage, profiling, ok I see that. I get empathy even, what our actions are causing in others what that makes them feel. Politics broadly defined is the interactions of humans period. But the US red on blue politics I do think rarely causes the type of pain to make you stop your car on the side of the road and breakdown sobbing on your steering wheel. jobs? Money stress? Environmental destruction? Bombs dropping down....
Maybe I just need to really dig into my pain, huh? That helped you find the political bent? All I found was the random mindlessness of a ball of rock spinning around a big flaming sphere.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
For me, it's less about where an artist's ideologies lie versus the depth of their message. There are plenty of artists I may disagree with, but still respect their process for arriving at their beliefs. I only find it irritating when it's kneejerk, confrontational, and/or demonstrates a lack of comprehension.
Again, I think it's rare for politics to cause deep vein-slicing, gut-wrenching pain. Primal level pain. And I think getting involved and getting political to do something about the pain, to heal, is certainly valid.
For example, I can't find the politics in sexual or domestic violence, the act of the moment, that's primal stuff to me. The initial onslaught doesn't seem political. After that, of course, the repercussions, penalties, the will to engage resources and the politics involved in how you can or can't seek restitution, justice, and raise awareness to minimize these primal acts for others, of course. Getting political can get the healing going. Sure.
"if only that law had been passed, she wouldn't have raped me...." I think I want to hold the rapist accountable magnitudes of order more than the politicians that failed to act. I'm not a big believer in deterrence philosophies I guess?
All that said, as I've said before, Ed has a mic and a brain, he is free to us em. I think he uses both pretty dang well. I don't support all of his positions, and I don't walk out on masters of war. But it's sad that he and some folks here want me to....
Johnny Ramone was friends with the band. A bit different.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I just mean because not all bands talk about their shit at gigs, Ed does.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I do see your point about politically induced pain, but I don't think that is something the average pearl jam fan experiences. On average. Worldwide audience though, sure. But Joe goes to a show because he's frustrated, in mental anguish, with the pain his government is causing and finds solace in hearing Ed speak of that. And Sally goes to a show because her ex-boyfriend cheated on her and her grandma is in the hospital and she wants to scream and rage and laugh and cry. Both experiences of that show are valid.
But I'd argue that Sally would trade her problem's for joe's in a heartbeat, and to hear joe tell her that she's just not getting the full experience of the music is simply insulting. "Why are you even here, Sally? It's not like your boyfriend beat you like those Soldiers in Iraq beat those prisoners."
I do agree that an awesome singer and amazing music can be a salve for that pain; and while people may connect to the music for somewhat different reasons and in varying ways it doesn't make that connection any less valid, genuine, healing or enjoyable. We are on the same page there.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I don't quite agree with the somewhat moral relativism of "pain is pain and can't be compared." I think it is valid that all these things you bring up can be painful, and I know everyone has different thresholds of what they can bear. But the person crying over the skinned knee does not get to go into the ER before the person with their skull bashed in. Not a true comparison, we are talking mental anguish I know. But still....
The genesis of our debate, and something I have seen in this community for way too long now, is that folks who don't get Ed's politics can't be having as full an experience as those that do. I argued that folks with experiences that are reflected in PJs lyrics on the emotional front are perhaps getting every bit of it, if not more. If you're only connecting on a political level with someone I'd say that pales to an emotional level, but it's fuzzy because politics is personal and is emotional. I'm not doing a very good job on that. And of course, sure, there's those who connect on both.
"hey, have a great show, I may cry a bit cause I'm just getting over a bad breakup..."
"really? Ed is working to get my friends out of jail, you should probably just leave...."
Music is political. It always has been and it always will be. From slavery to the blues, to rap to rock and roll, it has always been political and always will be. And most likely, it will largely be left leaning given the artistic nature.
Why anyone cares what EV says politically boggles my mind.
I don't think that's the genesis of our debate. I think maybe that's the debate you were having with Zoso,but I'm comfortable with you working it through with me. I responded to the statement that pain is rarely political, because in my experiences of the pain I have witnessed the political link has not been that rare. I can only speak for myself, and that is that I connect with the music on a personal and political level; that's what drew me in and that's why I connect with PJ in a way I haven't connected with any other music. I don't discount that the connection can be as strong or as valid for someone who doesn't connect on that political level or maybe even disagrees with it.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"